Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

So Ive been browsing the gov auction sites for a long time.
I need at most...about 60 amps at 208 volts worst case. 60 hz
manditory so that leaves out the aircraft start carts and whatnot.

Id prefer of course, diesel. These below are all within easy pickup
range of me.

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554231

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554230

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=559029

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=552152


Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

In article ,
Gunner wrote:


Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

If you have a reciever ball hitch, pull it out and insert a pintle hook.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

5 KW won't run much welder. Great for lights etc. But, assuming 220 Volt,
that's only 22 amps.

Even if you look at them you're still buying a pig in a poke. At that price,
buy two, and hope you got enough parts for one good one.

Good Luck

Karl

Try looking for one of those combo pintle and ball hitches

http://www.princessauto.com

Download their catalog and look in the trailer section


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

So Ive been browsing the gov auction sites for a long time.
I need at most...about 60 amps at 208 volts worst case. 60 hz
manditory so that leaves out the aircraft start carts and whatnot.

Id prefer of course, diesel. These below are all within easy pickup
range of me.

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554231

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554230

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=559029

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=552152


Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

Gunner wrote:

Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?


Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.


A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?


Replace ball hitch with Pintle.

Look at these:
5kw Generator Welder w/13.5HP Robin Engine
240amps welding
7 gl tank
14.5 hour run time at 50% load
shpg wt 240lbs
$2,000
#92493-0VGA
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92493

Champion 4500 or Champion 10,000
MSRP (US$)* $1,346.00 to $3,257.00
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/enginedriven/

I like the Champion 10,000, because it will weld up to 1/2" deep, when
you need it to.

:/

My thought is to move it in quietly, and muffle it as totally best yuo can.
Run it in a stand of trees or bushes for further muffling. My sense is that
your neighbors will protest the small engine being "high pollution" and
you'll get shut down.

OUt of sight (out of hearing range) out of mind.

Thinking.... is gasoline cheaper than Greyout Electric? I ran the numbers in
the Northern Tools catalog. Galon of gas, figures out to about 2,000 watts
for one hour of runtime.

Thinking.... pipe it into natural gas, if that's any cheaper?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

So Ive been browsing the gov auction sites for a long time.
I need at most...about 60 amps at 208 volts worst case. 60 hz
manditory so that leaves out the aircraft start carts and whatnot.

Id prefer of course, diesel. These below are all within easy pickup
range of me.

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554231

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554230

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=559029

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=552152


Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

worse case, throw that trailer on your own trailer til you can get it
home........then fix the tongue



Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

My gut feel for this is that it can't be economical. Have you done any
numbers, comparing your cost (fuel, maintenance) to the utility? Here's
a sanity check: if it really is cheaper to do your own, you should
get a bunch of gensets and sell their power back to the utility!!
Putting it that way, doesn't it seem unlikely that it's economical?

Bob

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:35:36 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

My gut feel for this is that it can't be economical. Have you done any
numbers, comparing your cost (fuel, maintenance) to the utility? Here's
a sanity check: if it really is cheaper to do your own, you should
get a bunch of gensets and sell their power back to the utility!!
Putting it that way, doesn't it seem unlikely that it's economical?

Bob

Thats the deal Bob..I dont know what the gallons per hour is for these
gensets, the maint costs or anything.

I figure run time simply welding would be on the order of about 10
hours a month, or even less. I live in an unincorporated rural area,
so noise and what not is not an issue.

In fact, there are a large number of local welders with the old
Lincoln SA-200 welders mounted in the back of their trucks. They
often sell for $1000-1500. Gasoline, DC only. But thats $1000 or more
that I cant afford, and they still wont work as backup power for the
house either.

Hence my questions on the two newsgroups comprised of people that are
most likely to know what I need to know.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:33:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My thought is to move it in quietly, and muffle it as totally best yuo can.
Run it in a stand of trees or bushes for further muffling. My sense is that
your neighbors will protest the small engine being "high pollution" and
you'll get shut down.


Where I live, unincorporated rural, tis not an issue. Trust me on
this G

OUt of sight (out of hearing range) out of mind.

Thinking.... is gasoline cheaper than Greyout Electric? I ran the numbers in
the Northern Tools catalog. Galon of gas, figures out to about 2,000 watts
for one hour of runtime.

Hence my desire for diesel. Plus the storage issues are smaller.

Thinking.... pipe it into natural gas, if that's any cheaper?


Thats possible.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On 25 Mar 2005 13:22:45 GMT, Ignoramus15970
wrote:


Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.


Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?


Here in California, depending on location....the stuff could well have
been outside for 20 yrs. Shrug...not a lot of rain or bad weather
here. Kills rubber parts, but rust and whatnot is not generally an
issue unless one goes over to the coastline.

70 yr old cars are common, no rust worms here.

I dont have a receiver hitch on my truck, but simply a 5000lb factory
rated step bumper with the ball in the middle of it.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:22:13 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT to reply wrote:

5 KW won't run much welder. Great for lights etc. But, assuming 220 Volt,
that's only 22 amps.

Even if you look at them you're still buying a pig in a poke. At that price,
buy two, and hope you got enough parts for one good one.

Good Luck

Karl




All indeed are concerns of mine. Thanks Karl

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On 25 Mar 2005 13:22:45 GMT, Ignoramus15970
wrote:

On 25 Mar 2005 05:15:26 -0800, Halcitron wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?


Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.


Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?


Replace ball hitch with Pintle.

He needs a different height of the pintle, about 10 inches higher at
least. These are high trailers. They will look really stupid on a
standard height receiver, leaning forward way too much. Probably
unsafe too.

Look at these:
5kw Generator Welder w/13.5HP Robin Engine
240amps welding
7 gl tank
14.5 hour run time at 50% load
shpg wt 240lbs
$2,000
#92493-0VGA
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92493

This consumer class device does not even begin to compare with
MEP-002A. Not even in the same class. When there is a choice of a low
hours MEP-002A at $1000 vs. this generator at $2,000, it is a no
brainer.

i

Champion 4500 or Champion 10,000
MSRP (US$)* $1,346.00 to $3,257.00
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/enginedriven/

I like the Champion 10,000, because it will weld up to 1/2" deep, when
you need it to.

:/


One should note...that this lot has 2 gensets in the lot

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=554230

30kw..but old I think

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

Hi.
I have seen several generators/welders listed on the Oregon State
surplus sales on Ebay. Since I am not in the market for them, I don't
remember the prices, etc. They sell stuff from all over the state and
lots of federal agencies.

http://tpps.das.state.or.us/surplus/index.html

They may have something in the future that will work for you.

Paul

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

An Onan commercial mobile 7.5 KW diesel generator uses 0.96
gallons/hr at full load.

http://www.onan.com/pdf/cmobile/A-1392.pdf

At about $2/gallon, that's about 27 cents per KWH.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

Ah.... at say, 15 cents a kWhr, that $150 extra is 1000kWhrs. Even at
10kw draw (pretty heavy welding), that's 100 hours per month. Somehow
I doubt that.... But if you were using that much, a fair guess might
be 100+ gallons of diesel per month to supply it from a generator. So
if you get the generator for free, and if it never needs any
maintenance, and if you don't mind hauling a barrel of fuel every
couple weeks, then it will only cost about $100 a month extra to use
the generator. The more you weld, the higher the premium will be, and
the rising cost of fuel will make it even worse. If you really want to
save money, then buy an inverter-based machine. At 100 hours a month
of use, it would pay for itself in a couple of years.

But better yet, put one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1475 412&rd=1
on your appliances (especially your friggen computers!) one a time,
and I bet you'll figure out why your bills are so high. Check into TOU
utility rates as well.

And one last thing... you're using about three times as much
electricity as I do in your normal month, and sixth times as much in
your high months. That ain't Gray Davis's fault.

Wayne

Ignoramus15970 wrote:
On 25 Mar 2005 05:15:26 -0800, Halcitron wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig
in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer
mounted
diesel genset?


Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.


Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?


Replace ball hitch with Pintle.

He needs a different height of the pintle, about 10 inches higher at
least. These are high trailers. They will look really stupid on a
standard height receiver, leaning forward way too much. Probably
unsafe too.

Does anyone make an adjustable pintle?

Where there is steel, there is a way.

:/

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:27:57 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

Ah.... at say, 15 cents a kWhr, that $150 extra is 1000kWhrs. Even at
10kw draw (pretty heavy welding), that's 100 hours per month. Somehow
I doubt that.... But if you were using that much, a fair guess might
be 100+ gallons of diesel per month to supply it from a generator. So
if you get the generator for free, and if it never needs any
maintenance, and if you don't mind hauling a barrel of fuel every
couple weeks, then it will only cost about $100 a month extra to use
the generator. The more you weld, the higher the premium will be, and
the rising cost of fuel will make it even worse. If you really want to
save money, then buy an inverter-based machine. At 100 hours a month
of use, it would pay for itself in a couple of years.

But better yet, put one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1475 412&rd=1
on your appliances (especially your friggen computers!) one a time,
and I bet you'll figure out why your bills are so high. Check into TOU
utility rates as well.

And one last thing... you're using about three times as much
electricity as I do in your normal month, and sixth times as much in
your high months. That ain't Gray Davis's fault.

Wayne

Is your utility company Pacific Greed and Extortion?

Ill have to check the current bill and see how many kwH Im using. When
Im gone during the week, there is only one computer running 24/7 and
all the light bulbs in the house have been replaced with those
florescent replacements. The gas heater hasnt been run in a month,
nor has the swamp cooler in 6 months, and all the appliences,
including the dryer are gas.

Ill check into that gizmo.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?

Most Ebay listings start at $0.99, too, BUT...


A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Good question. Could you fab a bracket onto your receiver and bolt on
a male pintle hook? Take an array of electrical connectors too.
http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.co...s/a-t60al.html
Vandenberg looks pretty close to you, BTW.


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:27:57 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

Ah.... at say, 15 cents a kWhr, that $150 extra is 1000kWhrs. Even at
10kw draw (pretty heavy welding), that's 100 hours per month. Somehow
I doubt that.... But if you were using that much, a fair guess might
be 100+ gallons of diesel per month to supply it from a generator. So
if you get the generator for free, and if it never needs any
maintenance, and if you don't mind hauling a barrel of fuel every
couple weeks, then it will only cost about $100 a month extra to use
the generator. The more you weld, the higher the premium will be, and
the rising cost of fuel will make it even worse. If you really want to
save money, then buy an inverter-based machine. At 100 hours a month
of use, it would pay for itself in a couple of years.


My welders run at most, perhaps 6 hours a month actual ON time, less
for welding time.

I cant afford to buy an inverter based machine. That takes cash. Hard
money. Aint got any of that. I was able to swap/trade for the
machines I do have. If I wasnt able to..there would be no machines.


But better yet, put one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1475 412&rd=1
on your appliances (especially your friggen computers!) one a time,
and I bet you'll figure out why your bills are so high. Check into TOU
utility rates as well.

And one last thing... you're using about three times as much
electricity as I do in your normal month, and sixth times as much in
your high months. That ain't Gray Davis's fault.

Wayne

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS

how do I find out what a :baseline rate is..the tarrif listing above
is greek to me.

Kern County, residential. 1.5 residents (Im only home on weekends),
see other post about gas appliences, florescent bulbs..

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

Now I turn on a welder, run the shortest bead I can get away with,
then turn it right back off. I dont have any Power Factor caps in
the welders that I know of.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

E-1 Residential

Total Energy Rates ($ per kWh)
Baseline Usage $0.11430
101% - 130% of Baseline $0.12989
131% - 200% of Baseline $0.17557 (R)
201% - 300% of Baseline $0.21474 |
Over 300% of Baseline $0.21474 (R)

Total Minimum Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.14784

Looking at the way they calculate KWhrs YOU ARE GETTING SCREWED.

Code B - Basic Quantities
Baseline Summer Winter
Territory* Tier I Tier I
P 15.8 12.9
Q 8.5 13.0
R 17.5 12.7
S 15.8 12.8
T 8.5 10.2
V 8.7 10.4
W 18.7 11.9
X 12.2 13.0
Y 11.3 (I) 12.9
Z 7.3 11.2


If it was me I'd find a gas or diesel powered welder and use it. Don't
bother with a generator since most engine welders include one anyway.


--
Steve W.


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:27:57 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner

wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes
to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

Ah.... at say, 15 cents a kWhr, that $150 extra is 1000kWhrs. Even at
10kw draw (pretty heavy welding), that's 100 hours per month. Somehow
I doubt that.... But if you were using that much, a fair guess might
be 100+ gallons of diesel per month to supply it from a generator. So
if you get the generator for free, and if it never needs any
maintenance, and if you don't mind hauling a barrel of fuel every
couple weeks, then it will only cost about $100 a month extra to use
the generator. The more you weld, the higher the premium will be, and
the rising cost of fuel will make it even worse. If you really want
to
save money, then buy an inverter-based machine. At 100 hours a month
of use, it would pay for itself in a couple of years.


My welders run at most, perhaps 6 hours a month actual ON time, less
for welding time.

I cant afford to buy an inverter based machine. That takes cash. Hard
money. Aint got any of that. I was able to swap/trade for the
machines I do have. If I wasnt able to..there would be no machines.


But better yet, put one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...963&item=75014
75412&rd=1
on your appliances (especially your friggen computers!) one a time,
and I bet you'll figure out why your bills are so high. Check into
TOU
utility rates as well.

And one last thing... you're using about three times as much
electricity as I do in your normal month, and sixth times as much in
your high months. That ain't Gray Davis's fault.

Wayne

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS

how do I find out what a :baseline rate is..the tarrif listing above
is greek to me.

Kern County, residential. 1.5 residents (Im only home on weekends),
see other post about gas appliences, florescent bulbs..

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

Now I turn on a welder, run the shortest bead I can get away with,
then turn it right back off. I dont have any Power Factor caps in
the welders that I know of.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

In article , Gunner says...

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

The reason for this is obvious - your overall electric consumption
is pretty minimal otherwise. The compact fluorescent lamps,
the gas fired appliances, etc.

Computers don't really burn that much power. I bet the biggest
power-hog in your domicile is the refrigerator. In some sense,
the fact that the welder makes such a big impact in your bill
is a badge of success. It means that most times your meter
just barely ticks over.

Compare that to me, with an electric dryer, and a full time
dehumidifier in the shop. Granted the first hardly gets used
in the summertime, and the second cannot (and need not) be
used in the winter. House ACs are small and only do two rooms,
but in the NY summer they can be on for a couple of months,
steady.

Now I turn on a welder, run the shortest bead I can get away with,
then turn it right back off. I dont have any Power Factor caps in
the welders that I know of.

Power factor capacitors won't improve your rate of meter spin. The
meter *only* looks at real power, not reactive power - and power
factor correction capacitors reduce only reactive, or out-of-phase,
current.

Something tells me that the reason you're having trouble
reducing your power bill is, you've already done a 90 percent
job of doing so. The last ten percent is the toughest.

What did you finally do with your dry well, did you go the
sulfuric route?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Gunner wrote:

Ill have to check the current bill and see how many kwH Im using. When
Im gone during the week, there is only one computer running 24/7 and
all the light bulbs in the house have been replaced with those
florescent replacements. The gas heater hasnt been run in a month,
nor has the swamp cooler in 6 months, and all the appliences,
including the dryer are gas.

Ill check into that gizmo.

Might look a little further, like for extension cords running to your
place from the neighbor's.

On 25 Mar 2005 22:41:29 GMT, Ignoramus15970
wrote:

On 25 Mar 2005 14:37:54 -0800, Halcitron wrote:

Ignoramus15970 wrote:
On 25 Mar 2005 05:15:26 -0800, Halcitron wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Anyone know anything about any of these gensets? I know its pig
in a
poke, unless one can take the time to drive up there and do an
inspection.

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer
mounted
diesel genset?


Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.


Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?


Replace ball hitch with Pintle.

He needs a different height of the pintle, about 10 inches higher at
least. These are high trailers. They will look really stupid on a
standard height receiver, leaning forward way too much. Probably
unsafe too.

Does anyone make an adjustable pintle?

Yes, they are available, I saw them sold on websites for about
$70. Gunner does not have a receiver though, only a ball on his
bumper. Given that he is able to cut and weld metal, he is capable of
making some sort of a base for a pintle hitch that would bolt to his
bumper.

i

Where there is steel, there is a way.

:/

I figure I could do that. Only need it once.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:29:07 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

Is your utility company Pacific Greed and Extortion?

My account used to be with Sandy Eggo Gouge and Extortion.
I sure love the 6¢ KWs up here. Brownout Free, too!


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:54:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On 25 Mar 2005 13:22:45 GMT, Ignoramus15970
wrote:

Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.

Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?

Here in California, depending on location....the stuff could well have
been outside for 20 yrs. Shrug...not a lot of rain or bad weather
here. Kills rubber parts, but rust and whatnot is not generally an
issue unless one goes over to the coastline.

70 yr old cars are common, no rust worms here.

They're few and far between, as my Corvair and Signal Corps PE-95-G
can attest.

I dont have a receiver hitch on my truck, but simply a 5000lb factory
rated step bumper with the ball in the middle of it.

Well then, it's simple enough to get a receiver tube kit
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...3576&R=4357 6
and zap it onto the bottom of the step plate, along with a couple of
diagonal braces to the frame rails - I think you can find a welder or
three around there (of each type) that works...

Then you get a hunk of 2" square bar or heavy square tube for the
receiver, a hunk of 1/2" plate for the pintle mount, and use an
ironworker to punch holes for bolting the pintle hook down. A gusset
on the back, some Grade 8 bolts and nuts, and you have copied...
http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/22067.htm

My "new" 1-ton truck only has a bumper hitch, but the first towing
job that comes up and Eckhart's will be putting a full-on Class III/IV
receiver under there.

Bumpers are put on cars primarily for looks, not for pulling
trailers - I've seen several that folded like a cardboard box when
stressed. If the makers built their hitch bumpers heavy enough to
actually tow a fully loaded trailer, they'd never sell because the
bumpers would cost too much. Price Competition, a race to the bottom.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:20:31 -0800, Offbreed
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ill have to check the current bill and see how many kwH Im using. When
Im gone during the week, there is only one computer running 24/7 and
all the light bulbs in the house have been replaced with those
florescent replacements. The gas heater hasnt been run in a month,
nor has the swamp cooler in 6 months, and all the appliences,
including the dryer are gas.

Ill check into that gizmo.

Might look a little further, like for extension cords running to your
place from the neighbor's.

They would show up draped over the razor wire.

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:59:57 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:



If it was me I'd find a gas or diesel powered welder and use it. Don't
bother with a generator since most engine welders include one anyway.


--
Steve W.

A friend is trying to sell me a WW2 vintage Hobart gas welder. Its
supposed to run. DC only of course, so that screws up the MIG and tig
welding

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On 25 Mar 2005 20:04:45 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

The reason for this is obvious - your overall electric consumption
is pretty minimal otherwise. The compact fluorescent lamps,
the gas fired appliances, etc.

Computers don't really burn that much power. I bet the biggest
power-hog in your domicile is the refrigerator. In some sense,
the fact that the welder makes such a big impact in your bill
is a badge of success. It means that most times your meter
just barely ticks over.

Compare that to me, with an electric dryer, and a full time
dehumidifier in the shop. Granted the first hardly gets used
in the summertime, and the second cannot (and need not) be
used in the winter. House ACs are small and only do two rooms,
but in the NY summer they can be on for a couple of months,
steady.

Now I turn on a welder, run the shortest bead I can get away with,
then turn it right back off. I dont have any Power Factor caps in
the welders that I know of.

Power factor capacitors won't improve your rate of meter spin. The
meter *only* looks at real power, not reactive power - and power
factor correction capacitors reduce only reactive, or out-of-phase,
current.

Something tells me that the reason you're having trouble
reducing your power bill is, you've already done a 90 percent
job of doing so. The last ten percent is the toughest.

So why is my bill $150 normal, going to $300 when I turn on a welder?

What did you finally do with your dry well, did you go the
sulfuric route?

Still not done anything yet. Ive been sick, broke and swamped with
other stuff. Its something I need to adress ASAP though.

Gunner


Jim


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:36:51 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

Reviewing past auctions, they seem to go for $35-70 each. Which
concerns me. Are these utter junk, or no one wants a trailer mounted
diesel genset?

Most Ebay listings start at $0.99, too, BUT...


Quite true. Ill have to see. My buddy is willing to pay about $200
max. If they go over that...back to the drawing board.

A buddy said he would pay for a pair of them, if we could get
something that would be suitable for home/ranch utility use.

Any suggestions, comments, info would be appreciated.

Also...how does one pull a pintle style trailer with a ball hitch?

Good question. Could you fab a bracket onto your receiver and bolt on
a male pintle hook? Take an array of electrical connectors too.
http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.co...s/a-t60al.html
Vandenberg looks pretty close to you, BTW.

I looked over the bumper,. and it would be simple make up a base to
mount a pintle hitch on.

Gunner



================================================= =======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:50:52 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:33:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Thinking.... is gasoline cheaper than Greyout Electric? I ran the numbers in
the Northern Tools catalog. Gallon of gas, figures out to about 2,000 watts
for one hour of runtime.

2,000 watts for one hour = 2 KWHrs. Look at your power bill for the
going rate, at the moment L.A. DWP is charging (figuring it out
because they don't just print the rate on the bill...) 10.2c per KWHr
for residential.

Let me think about that one for a few seconds - Buy the electricity
for 20.2 cents, or pay $2.00 plus for a gallon of diesel fuel or
gasoline, and then add in the capital costs of the generator, and the
maintenance, and the eventual engine rebuild... Nope, you're still
better off buying your electricity from the local power utility under
normal circumstances.

Hence my desire for diesel. Plus the storage issues are smaller.

Diesel doesn't go BOOM! nearly as easily as gasoline. But diesel
fuel does have algae and bio-growth problems to be considered when
it's stored for long periods.

Thinking.... pipe it into natural gas, if that's any cheaper?

Thats possible.

Natural gas has got to be a whole lot cheaper than oil, though I
have no idea how the numbers work - you can't just go with SCFH
because the BTU content varies from different sources, you have to get
into the 'voodoo math' of Therms.

And most of the mid-size power plants and gas-turbine 'peaking'
plants are running on natural gas instead of oil... But hydroelectric
power is free of fuel costs, though you have to allow for the capital
and maintenance costs of the dam and powerhouse.

Even after you add in the utility transport costs, you simply can't
buy fossil fuels yourself cheaper than they can collect rain water at
a high elevation and capture the energy of it descending...

If you want reliable backup power from a gaseous fuel, you want
Propane or Propane/Natural dual-fuel, and not Natural Gas alone -
after an earthquake your natural gas supply might be interrupted if
the line breaks anywhere in the system. But that 100-gallon Propane
tank out back is still going to be available, and it doesn't go bad.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:33:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My thought is to move it in quietly, and muffle it as totally best yuo
can.
Run it in a stand of trees or bushes for further muffling. My sense is
that
your neighbors will protest the small engine being "high pollution" and
you'll get shut down.


Where I live, unincorporated rural, tis not an issue. Trust me on
this G

OUt of sight (out of hearing range) out of mind.

Thinking.... is gasoline cheaper than Greyout Electric? I ran the numbers
in
the Northern Tools catalog. Galon of gas, figures out to about 2,000
watts
for one hour of runtime.

Hence my desire for diesel. Plus the storage issues are smaller.

Thinking.... pipe it into natural gas, if that's any cheaper?


Thats possible.

Gunner



Gunner,

Dont be a fool......

Stormin has it right on this one-- if the utility could power ya up cheaper
with diesel or gas out by the pole youda thunk theyda thunk of it
beforehand, no ???

It'll cost ya close to 3 times that in diesel or gas, by my estimate........

Too expensive ???

Then go find some shop to do your welding for you !!!

--

SVL

Gunner wrote:

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

Gunner

Gunner,

It sounds to me like your billing is based on peak demand just like mine
is here in oHIo. The higher my peak demand is, the more I pay per KWH.
My peak demand is the highest peak energy used over a 30 minute
sliding window. All I have to do is push that number up high ONE TIME
in a billing period and my rate goes way up.

Is there any mention on your utility bill of peak demand?

Bruce

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:33:05 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

My thought is to move it in quietly, and muffle it as totally best yuo
can.
Run it in a stand of trees or bushes for further muffling. My sense is
that
your neighbors will protest the small engine being "high pollution" and
you'll get shut down.


Where I live, unincorporated rural, tis not an issue. Trust me on
this G

OUt of sight (out of hearing range) out of mind.

Thinking.... is gasoline cheaper than Greyout Electric? I ran the
numbers
in
the Northern Tools catalog. Galon of gas, figures out to about 2,000
watts
for one hour of runtime.

Hence my desire for diesel. Plus the storage issues are smaller.

Thinking.... pipe it into natural gas, if that's any cheaper?


Thats possible.

Gunner



Gunner,

Dont be a fool......

Stormin has it right on this one-- if the utility could power ya up
cheaper
with diesel or gas out by the pole youda thunk theyda thunk of it
beforehand, no ???

It'll cost ya close to 3 times that in diesel or gas, by my
estimate........

Too expensive ???

Then go find some shop to do your welding for you !!!

For comparison's sake, the latest Honda generators in the 5 kW class burn
0.80 gal. of gasoline/hr., roughly, when putting out their rated capacity of
5 kW. That's $1.60/hr., at $2.00 gal, or 32 cents/kW-hr.

Their similar propane-fueled generator has a continuous rating of 6 kW, at 5
lb propane/hr. At 4.25 pounds/gal, that's 1.18 gal/hr. Propane sold to
residences is price-volatile, running between $1.60 and $2.00/gal right now,
according to association reports. Taking the average, that means a per-kW-hr
prices of around 35 cents. Natural gas typically runs 12 - 15% cheaper than
propane per btu, but I don't know if the Hondas will run on it.

Most engines require a lot less maintenance running on propane or natural
gas than they do when running on liquid fuel. Still, it doesn't look like
any kind of a deal either way.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:30:51 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


Bumpers are put on cars primarily for looks, not for pulling
trailers - I've seen several that folded like a cardboard box when
stressed. If the makers built their hitch bumpers heavy enough to
actually tow a fully loaded trailer, they'd never sell because the
bumpers would cost too much. Price Competition, a race to the bottom.


The bumper on my 94 Mazda B3000 is rated at 5000 tow weight. Its not
cosmetic..as 7 yrs of towing machine tools has born out. Its part of
the towing package.

But making a pintle hitch mount should be quite duable

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:30:51 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:54:11 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On 25 Mar 2005 13:22:45 GMT, Ignoramus15970
wrote:

Yes, I would say you are buying them at scrap prices. Anything the
military used has been sitting outside for 5 plus years.

Halcitron, have you looked at the actual pictures of the stuff being
sold?

Here in California, depending on location....the stuff could well have
been outside for 20 yrs. Shrug...not a lot of rain or bad weather
here. Kills rubber parts, but rust and whatnot is not generally an
issue unless one goes over to the coastline.

70 yr old cars are common, no rust worms here.

They're few and far between, as my Corvair and Signal Corps PE-95-G
can attest.


???? Are you saying the very old cars are not common here in
California? Been to the central valley recently?

Having grown up in Iron Worm country...its fascinating the number of
30s, 40s, and 50s cars that are being driven every day, many of them
not even restored past engine work.

A friend of mine just got aBuick Roadmaster. It was found out on a
very old oil lease in a blind canyon. The only surface rust on it
appears to be as a result of exposure to hydrogen sulfide.

Some bullet holes though. But he claims it will restore as easily as
his Hudson Hornet. Found up in Coalinga on a ranch.

Shrug...

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:29:07 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:27:57 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:52:40 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been looking around for a genset for the homestead. Not so much
for emergency power, but to run my welders from. Emergency backup is
icing on the cake.

My normal monthly electric bill is $150 or so (**** you Gray
Davis!!!!) and it seems that the minute I turn a welder on..it goes to
$300 a month.

No can afford this sort of thing anymore.

Ah.... at say, 15 cents a kWhr, that $150 extra is 1000kWhrs. Even at
10kw draw (pretty heavy welding), that's 100 hours per month. Somehow
I doubt that.... But if you were using that much, a fair guess might
be 100+ gallons of diesel per month to supply it from a generator. So
if you get the generator for free, and if it never needs any
maintenance, and if you don't mind hauling a barrel of fuel every
couple weeks, then it will only cost about $100 a month extra to use
the generator. The more you weld, the higher the premium will be, and
the rising cost of fuel will make it even worse. If you really want to
save money, then buy an inverter-based machine. At 100 hours a month
of use, it would pay for itself in a couple of years.

But better yet, put one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...1475 412&rd=1
on your appliances (especially your friggen computers!) one a time,
and I bet you'll figure out why your bills are so high. Check into TOU
utility rates as well.

And one last thing... you're using about three times as much
electricity as I do in your normal month, and sixth times as much in
your high months. That ain't Gray Davis's fault.

Wayne

Is your utility company Pacific Greed and Extortion?

Ill have to check the current bill and see how many kwH Im using. When
Im gone during the week, there is only one computer running 24/7 and
all the light bulbs in the house have been replaced with those
florescent replacements. The gas heater hasnt been run in a month,
nor has the swamp cooler in 6 months, and all the appliences,
including the dryer are gas.

Ill check into that gizmo.

Good idea. Things are not computing here at all. 10 hours of
welding (60 amps at 220 V) at an exorbitant $0.25/KWH would only
raise your electric bill about $33. That 10 hours would be actual
arc time. That's many lineal feet of weld. If you weld at one
foot per minute, it's 600 feet of weld. A welder that is switched
on but not actually welding doesn't draw much power; if it did, it'd
get very hot very quickly.

An unsuspected load like an iced-up dehumidifier can raise the bill a
lot, but that doesn't jibe with the spike you report when you do a
little welding.

I would definitely check the electric meter. Turn off all loads
you can spare, read the meter, read it again after an hour. Then turn
on a known load, perhaps a 1200 watt hotplate or whatever, do the
meter drill again and then do the math.

I have never had an electric bill of more than $150.

Gunner wrote:

On 25 Mar 2005 20:04:45 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

I asked the guy down at the PG^E payment office about running a
welder, and he flat told me even a buzzbox on weekends would tend to
double my rates. My bills appear to reflect that.

The reason for this is obvious - your overall electric consumption
is pretty minimal otherwise. The compact fluorescent lamps,
the gas fired appliances, etc.

Computers don't really burn that much power. I bet the biggest
power-hog in your domicile is the refrigerator. In some sense,
the fact that the welder makes such a big impact in your bill
is a badge of success. It means that most times your meter
just barely ticks over.

Compare that to me, with an electric dryer, and a full time
dehumidifier in the shop. Granted the first hardly gets used
in the summertime, and the second cannot (and need not) be
used in the winter. House ACs are small and only do two rooms,
but in the NY summer they can be on for a couple of months,
steady.

Now I turn on a welder, run the shortest bead I can get away with,
then turn it right back off. I dont have any Power Factor caps in
the welders that I know of.

Power factor capacitors won't improve your rate of meter spin. The
meter *only* looks at real power, not reactive power - and power
factor correction capacitors reduce only reactive, or out-of-phase,
current.

Something tells me that the reason you're having trouble
reducing your power bill is, you've already done a 90 percent
job of doing so. The last ten percent is the toughest.

So why is my bill $150 normal, going to $300 when I turn on a welder?

What did you finally do with your dry well, did you go the
sulfuric route?

Still not done anything yet. Ive been sick, broke and swamped with
other stuff. Its something I need to adress ASAP though.

Gunner


Jim

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

Suggestion: Measure just how much power the welder is really using
(more-or-less)

Power meters aren't mysterious black boxes, just write down the meter
reading before and after a welding project and see how many KWH were
used.

Granted you still have the "background" use of the rest of the house,
but as you noted it's all CF lights and gas stove/dryer so the
background use should be fairly constant.

If you want to eliminate it just down the times you took the readings as
well and take another set of reading immediately after the welding
project over the same duration and subtract that reading from the first.
You should get something reasonably close to the true KWH used by the
welding.

Pete C.

Gunner wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:59:57 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:



If it was me I'd find a gas or diesel powered welder and use it. Don't
bother with a generator since most engine welders include one anyway.


--
Steve W.

A friend is trying to sell me a WW2 vintage Hobart gas welder. Its
supposed to run. DC only of course, so that screws up the MIG and tig
welding

Gunner

Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael

If the post above is correct and they are charging more per KWH above a
mysterious baseline then you need to investigate just how they are
calculating the baseline. If it is an average usage over a several month
period then just make sure you weld more to increase the baseline

It sounds like it's not exactly a peak metered thing like commercial,
but it's not a straight cost per KWH either. Even the "over 300% of
baseline" is only $0.215 /KWH so as long as they are only charging that
rate on the portion over the baseline and not the whole bill then the
cost for that extra gulp of welding power is pretty close to what it
will cost you to generate yourself.

I'll also note that running your own generator may sound like it's
cheaper when you divide the fuel cost by the generator capacity, however
unless you are actually using the full generator capacity the entire run
time the cost per KWH used is much higher. A typical small genset may
use say 1 gal/hr at full load, but still use .75 gal/hr at half load.

Pete C.

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 05:47:15 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:20:31 -0800, Offbreed
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ill have to check the current bill and see how many kwH Im using. When
Im gone during the week, there is only one computer running 24/7 and
all the light bulbs in the house have been replaced with those
florescent replacements. The gas heater hasnt been run in a month,
nor has the swamp cooler in 6 months, and all the appliences,
including the dryer are gas.

Ill check into that gizmo.

Might look a little further, like for extension cords running to your
place from the neighbor's.

They would show up draped over the razor wire.

You might be surprised. Drag a rake or hoe around the inside of the
perimeter looking for buried cords. Thieves can be sneaky and cover
their tracks, especially with the price of Gray Davis electricity.

I wonder if I can find that less-than-subtle Indian picture again...
Ayup, here's one, and I've seen worse. It must be interesting trying
to connect -without- electrocuting themselves.
http://www.megsworld.net/archives/st...ty%20small.JPG


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================