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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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tesla turbine questions
Does anyone know of any good links?
Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... |
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Haaken Hveem wrote:
Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... The only Tesla turbines I've seen ran on steam. |
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Look up Frank Germano. Looks like his site is gone though.
http://my.execpc.com/~teba/ they've be around for a while. Karl "Haaken Hveem" wrote in message ... Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... |
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:27 -0000, Haaken Hveem wrote:
Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... Can't be done. Anyone selling you plans to do it, is just selling you false hope. |
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On 3 Mar 2005 16:03:46 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:27 -0000, Haaken Hveem wrote: Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... Can't be done. Anyone selling you plans to do it, is just selling you false hope. Why not, please? |
#6
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--They're remarkably inefficient. Been there, done that, don't
bother. The Tesla turbine's one saving grace is its lack of things to be bumped into, hence it's niche market is in the pumping of live fish. It's a much better drive-ee than drive-er, so to speak. -- "Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blah blah blah blah Hacking the Trailing Edge! : blah blah blah... http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- |
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:42:42 -0600, Don Foreman wrote:
On 3 Mar 2005 16:03:46 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:27 -0000, Haaken Hveem wrote: Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... Can't be done. Anyone selling you plans to do it, is just selling you false hope. Why not, please? The laws of conservation of energy. "completely self sustaining" would require that there be no losses to heat, friction, or anything else. That doesn't even get into the problem of extracting energy from this mythical device, which would require it to produce more energy than it creates. Tesla had some great ideas, but he had some stinkers too. Greater-than-unity devices fall into the latter category, and for some reason, Tesla's name seems to attract people who ignore the laws of physics. |
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"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
... The laws of conservation of energy. "completely self sustaining" would require that there be no losses to heat, friction, or anything else. Well presumably, he actually means something which will keep spinning, like how you can make a jet engine out of an automotive turbo. It doesn't produce much if any thrust, but it does sustain itself (given fuel of course). Tim -- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:51:42 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... The laws of conservation of energy. "completely self sustaining" would require that there be no losses to heat, friction, or anything else. Well presumably, he actually means something which will keep spinning, like how you can make a jet engine out of an automotive turbo. It doesn't produce much if any thrust, but it does sustain itself (given fuel of course). Many of the people hawking "tesla-like devices" pretend that the "given fuel, of course" clause doesn't apply. That's my point, is all. Dave |
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"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
... Many of the people hawking "tesla-like devices" pretend that the "given fuel, of course" clause doesn't apply. That's my point, is all. Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously Tim -- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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On 3 Mar 2005 18:52:09 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:42:42 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On 3 Mar 2005 16:03:46 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:27 -0000, Haaken Hveem wrote: Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... Can't be done. Anyone selling you plans to do it, is just selling you false hope. Why not, please? The laws of conservation of energy. "completely self sustaining" would require that there be no losses to heat, friction, or anything else. That doesn't even get into the problem of extracting energy from this mythical device, which would require it to produce more energy than it creates. Tesla had some great ideas, but he had some stinkers too. Greater-than-unity devices fall into the latter category, and for some reason, Tesla's name seems to attract people who ignore the laws of physics. Haaken's mention of "running on propane or diesel" indicates to me that he recognizes the need for a source of energy. I'll leave it to Haaken to clarify what he meant by 'self sustaining". |
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:09 -0600, "Tim Williams"
wrote: Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Good! We need someone who has that level of expertise. I don't pretend to have that level of understanding and I'm pretty sure neither Jerry Martes nor Bob Swinney would either. |
#13
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message
... On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:09 -0600, "Tim Williams" wrote: Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Good! We need someone who has that level of expertise. I don't pretend to have that level of understanding and I'm pretty sure neither Jerry Martes nor Bob Swinney would either. Tesla is misunderstood by the general public, those few who know who he was at all, for a variety of reasons, mostly because they don't see the connection between his brilliant and insightful discoveries and inventions of his early years, and his grandiose, war-related ideas of the years before his death. Like many geniuses he abandoned many of his ideas in mid-stream: not necessarily because they didn't work, but because his attention had moved on to something else. One of the most interesting stories about his life and work was aired on PBS last year: http://www.pbs.org/tesla/. It may be a bit effusive and uncritical; it reads that way, but I can't judge where the right balance is. In 1974 I researched and wrote a brief biography of Tesla for _Electrical World_ magazine's "Giants of the Electrical Century" promotion. I got all the books I could to do the research but I didn't have much time (I had to several biographies), and I didn't come across anything as easy to follow as the PBS documentary. -- Ed Huntress |
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message
... Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Well, I know a little about it, but let me say I don't have a hankerin' to make one. I know the guy was a nut though - the good kind, a smart, inventive nut. He wasn't much of a businessman though, hence why we all know who Edison was, even though he didn't even actually invent the lightbulb. And as mentioned, Tesla's later ideas where kinda cracky... Tim -- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
#15
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Well, a turbine has ( usually ) a compressor , a burner , and a turbine.
By the patents, it looks like tesla planned to use a pulsating burner to prowide enough flow of air to spin the turbine. By self sustaining , i meant that the turbine delivers enough power to , well , power a blower. That is needed to induce enough air flow in the cumbustor.... "Don Foreman" skrev i melding ... On 3 Mar 2005 18:52:09 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:42:42 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On 3 Mar 2005 16:03:46 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:27 -0000, Haaken Hveem wrote: Does anyone know of any good links? Id like to see units that are running on propane or diesel, and are completely self sustaining..... Can't be done. Anyone selling you plans to do it, is just selling you false hope. Why not, please? The laws of conservation of energy. "completely self sustaining" would require that there be no losses to heat, friction, or anything else. That doesn't even get into the problem of extracting energy from this mythical device, which would require it to produce more energy than it creates. Tesla had some great ideas, but he had some stinkers too. Greater-than-unity devices fall into the latter category, and for some reason, Tesla's name seems to attract people who ignore the laws of physics. Haaken's mention of "running on propane or diesel" indicates to me that he recognizes the need for a source of energy. I'll leave it to Haaken to clarify what he meant by 'self sustaining". |
#16
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:09 -0600, Tim Williams wrote:
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message ... Many of the people hawking "tesla-like devices" pretend that the "given fuel, of course" clause doesn't apply. That's my point, is all. Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously Well, don't get me wrong, Tesla _was_ brilliant, for the most part. I went to the Tesla Foundation in Colorado Springs a decade or so ago, and the place is (was?) literally overrun by free-energy seeking, and free-energy selling, crackpots. Really sad considering that he's the guy that invented A/C electricity, and his legacy has been polluted to that level. |
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On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:29:30 -0000, "Haaken Hveem"
wrote: Well, a turbine has ( usually ) a compressor , a burner , and a turbine. By the patents, it looks like tesla planned to use a pulsating burner to prowide enough flow of air to spin the turbine. By self sustaining , i meant that the turbine delivers enough power to , well , power a blower. That is needed to induce enough air flow in the cumbustor.... That seems feasible. You would just need to have enough temperature rise and expansion to drive a turbine enough larger than the compressor to overcome the various inefficiencies. It would probably produce far more heat than motion, but it might be an interesting project and demo! |
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On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 03:07:03 -0600, "Tim Williams"
wrote: "Don Foreman" wrote in message .. . Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Well, I know a little about it, but let me say I don't have a hankerin' to make one. I know the guy was a nut though - the good kind, a smart, inventive nut. He wasn't much of a businessman though, hence why we all know who Edison was, even though he didn't even actually invent the lightbulb. And as mentioned, Tesla's later ideas where kinda cracky... Building one merely requires the ablity to copy. Genius is in being able to imagine something useful that has never been done before, and make it work. Labelling another's ideas that you don't understand as "crackpot" only requires conformity, just another form of copying. |
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Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:09 -0600, "Tim Williams" wrote: Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Good! We need someone who has that level of expertise. I don't pretend to have that level of understanding and I'm pretty sure neither Jerry Martes nor Bob Swinney would either. Telsa also claimed to have invented a death ray and a whole bunch of similar stuff. Like Howard Hughes, by the end of his life the term 'nut' was warranted. --RC |
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Have you ever read any of his papers? The guy was a freakin' genius.
Even with 100 years of technology and theory I still find what he figured out amazing. There is a book that is a compilation of many of his research papers. It's a little dry, but very interesting. If you think you're a smart guy, read this. It will make you realize you are a "little" person as far as intellect and contribution to society are concerned. As for his later inventions and "crackiness", most of that was driven by investors heavily over invested looking for more genius. The "death ray" was a result of someone's brilliant suggestion of "wireless electricity". The result was the infamous Tesla coil. |
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"Rick Cook" wrote in message
k.net... Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:09 -0600, "Tim Williams" wrote: Yeah. Real shame the guy was such a nut and attracted these people posthumously This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Good! We need someone who has that level of expertise. I don't pretend to have that level of understanding and I'm pretty sure neither Jerry Martes nor Bob Swinney would either. Telsa also claimed to have invented a death ray and a whole bunch of similar stuff. Like Howard Hughes, by the end of his life the term 'nut' was warranted. The "death ray" was one version of the charged-particle-beam weapons he cooked up in the late '20s and the '30s. The US Air Force worked on the big version of it, which was supposed to shoot down airplanes and missiles, in the early '50s. Then they dropped it. The official reason was that it was too expensive and would consume too many resources. However, the Soviets picked it up and were working hard on it during the '70s. Ronald Reagan was responding to CIA reports of how hard the Soviets were working on it when he came up with his response: SDI, or "Star Wars." -- Ed Huntress |
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Tim Williams wrote:
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... Do you, 100 years later, understand how an induction motor works well enough to call its inventor a nut? Perhaps you do. Well, I know a little about it, but let me say I don't have a hankerin' to make one. I know the guy was a nut though - the good kind, a smart, inventive nut. He wasn't much of a businessman though, hence why we all know who Edison was, even though he didn't even actually invent the lightbulb. And as mentioned, Tesla's later ideas where kinda cracky... Or more to the point, being a brilliant inventer and a nut are not mutually exclusive. |
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jw wrote:
Have you ever read any of his papers? The guy was a freakin' genius. Even with 100 years of technology and theory I still find what he figured out amazing. There is a book that is a compilation of many of his research papers. It's a little dry, but very interesting. If you think you're a smart guy, read this. It will make you realize you are a "little" person as far as intellect and contribution to society are concerned. As for his later inventions and "crackiness", most of that was driven by investors heavily over invested looking for more genius. The "death ray" was a result of someone's brilliant suggestion of "wireless electricity". The result was the infamous Tesla coil. At one time I was very interested in Tesla, so yes, I've read some of his papers. I think I may have even read them in the book you referenced. The question isn't whether he was smart or whether he did good work in the first part of his life. Again, think Howard Hughes. --RC |
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"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
news Or more to the point, being a brilliant inventer and a nut are not mutually exclusive. Ah, those are the words I was looking for Tim -- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
#25
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In article , Don Foreman says...
This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Su Gauss Tesla! Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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On 4 Mar 2005 13:47:26 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Don Foreman says... This man you refer to as a nut invented the AC induction motor, and the first practical system for generating and transmitting alternating current for electric power. The commonly-used SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him. Su Gauss Tesla! Jim, 10,000 Gauss = 1 Tesla. MRI magnets, for instance, are commonly at a field strength of 1.5 Tesla. Dave Hinz |
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On 4 Mar 2005 11:21:15 -0800, "jw" wrote:
Have you ever read any of his papers? The guy was a freakin' genius. Even with 100 years of technology and theory I still find what he figured out amazing. There is a book that is a compilation of many of his research papers. It's a little dry, but very interesting. If you think you're a smart guy, read this. It will make you realize you are a "little" person as far as intellect and contribution to society are concerned. As for his later inventions and "crackiness", most of that was driven by investors heavily over invested looking for more genius. The "death ray" was a result of someone's brilliant suggestion of "wireless electricity". The result was the infamous Tesla coil. Papers? What's the name of the book? Dry and in his own writing ? I've read around 4 books on Tesla. I have one with all his patents. Just the other night the wife dragged me to the library cause she is afraid to go there at night , too many bums hang out there. Computers are all taken as usual so I just go do it the hard way and right off run into a VHS PBS and a book that I haven't read about him. Watched the video and it is about time someone put the info. straight. It's said that he came up with the idea from running a single disk in a stream and I think , thinking about bank tubes across the Atlantic. What I don't get is that steam must be really chaotic and thus not laminar. I don't think he was even close to whacked. He was an alien plant. Or might as well have been , the way he was treated. What was it , prime numbers with him. Probably a game to keep him from thinking about wasting money to get laid. |
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"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
... It's said that he came up with the idea from running a single disk in a stream and I think , thinking about bank tubes across the Atlantic. What I don't get is that steam must be really chaotic and thus not laminar. Steam is like any gas or fluid in general, if slow enough it will happily flow smooth and laminar. A Tesla turbine doesn't really need laminar flow anyway, as long as it sticks to the surface, it's good. Just transfer of the momentum. You can do the same thing yourself: next time you're rinsing a soup can lid in the sink, center it between your fingers and put it under the stream off center. It'll pull it along. Tim -- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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