I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Another idea I'm thinking about is having a plate machined that would
bolt to the flywheel and have a 1.5 inch shaft coming off of it that I
could couple to the generator head with a heavy duty rubber insert
type coupler. (I'm concerned that this setup would be hard for me to
balance, and the stresses on the shaft welded to the plate be to high)

Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

thanks

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:21:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

How about a VW Diesel instead? More suited to power generation,
better fuel to have around in quantity.

I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Could you use a CV joint in the process, to make alignment less critical?

Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

Maybe alt.energy.homepower would be another group to ask in. Also,
google for "cogeneration" (the concept of using the engine both to turn
the generator, _and_ to use the radiator as a heat device for the house).

Dave Hinz

On 7 Feb 2005 17:24:00 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:21:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

How about a VW Diesel instead? More suited to power generation,
better fuel to have around in quantity.

I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Could you use a CV joint in the process, to make alignment less critical?

Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

Maybe alt.energy.homepower would be another group to ask in. Also,
google for "cogeneration" (the concept of using the engine both to turn
the generator, _and_ to use the radiator as a heat device for the house).

Dave Hinz

Found an answer, seems many folks machine a flywheel plate with a
2inch shaft on it, then use a heavy duty lovejoy shaft coupler. Would
love a diesel engine but I found a wreck with a rebuilt 4 banger in it
for a good price.

Thanks guys

Modat22 wrote:
On 7 Feb 2005 17:24:00 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:21:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:

I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

How about a VW Diesel instead? More suited to power generation,
better fuel to have around in quantity.


I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Could you use a CV joint in the process, to make alignment less critical?


Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

Maybe alt.energy.homepower would be another group to ask in. Also,
google for "cogeneration" (the concept of using the engine both to turn
the generator, _and_ to use the radiator as a heat device for the house).

Dave Hinz


Found an answer, seems many folks machine a flywheel plate with a
2inch shaft on it, then use a heavy duty lovejoy shaft coupler. Would
love a diesel engine but I found a wreck with a rebuilt 4 banger in it
for a good price.

Thanks guys
Does anybody know what the efficiency of a lovejoy coupling would be as
opposed to removing the front bearing of the generator and coupling it
hard as is done with commercial units?

I really think getting a vw diesel is worth it if you are planning to
use it much. A lightly loaded diesel uses so much less fuel (I would
think about 65%) compared to a gas engine. Around here old VW diesels
can be bought for about $300 Canadian.

I plan to run mine on a mixture of old fry oil and diesel fuel, and use
the waste heat from the rad and from the exhust to warm my shop a bit
while I am in it.

The money that I spend making it and the little leanto it will be housed
in (about $1000) will be offset by the cost of burying a 250' line from
the house to the garage.

In the long run I would like to add a few batteries and an inverter so
that I don't have to run the generator unless I am using something big
or something three phase.

stan

Someone's been reading my mind 8-)

How many HP in a VW diesel?

Have you considered using triple V-belt and pulleys? Saves on alignment as
well.


"stanley baer" wrote in message
...
Modat22 wrote:
On 7 Feb 2005 17:24:00 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:21:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:

I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

How about a VW Diesel instead? More suited to power generation,
better fuel to have around in quantity.


I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Could you use a CV joint in the process, to make alignment less
critical?


Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

Maybe alt.energy.homepower would be another group to ask in. Also,
google for "cogeneration" (the concept of using the engine both to turn
the generator, _and_ to use the radiator as a heat device for the
house).

Dave Hinz


Found an answer, seems many folks machine a flywheel plate with a
2inch shaft on it, then use a heavy duty lovejoy shaft coupler. Would
love a diesel engine but I found a wreck with a rebuilt 4 banger in it
for a good price.

Thanks guys
Does anybody know what the efficiency of a lovejoy coupling would be as
opposed to removing the front bearing of the generator and coupling it
hard as is done with commercial units?

I really think getting a vw diesel is worth it if you are planning to
use it much. A lightly loaded diesel uses so much less fuel (I would
think about 65%) compared to a gas engine. Around here old VW diesels
can be bought for about $300 Canadian.

I plan to run mine on a mixture of old fry oil and diesel fuel, and use
the waste heat from the rad and from the exhust to warm my shop a bit
while I am in it.

The money that I spend making it and the little leanto it will be housed
in (about $1000) will be offset by the cost of burying a 250' line from
the house to the garage.

In the long run I would like to add a few batteries and an inverter so
that I don't have to run the generator unless I am using something big
or something three phase.

stan

Lucky Strike wrote:
Someone's been reading my mind 8-)

How many HP in a VW diesel?

Have you considered using triple V-belt and pulleys? Saves on alignment as
well.


"stanley baer" wrote in message
...

Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 17:24:00 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:



On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:21:25 GMT, Modat22 wrote:


I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

How about a VW Diesel instead? More suited to power generation,
better fuel to have around in quantity.



I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Could you use a CV joint in the process, to make alignment less

critical?


Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

Maybe alt.energy.homepower would be another group to ask in. Also,
google for "cogeneration" (the concept of using the engine both to turn
the generator, _and_ to use the radiator as a heat device for the

house).

Dave Hinz


Found an answer, seems many folks machine a flywheel plate with a
2inch shaft on it, then use a heavy duty lovejoy shaft coupler. Would
love a diesel engine but I found a wreck with a rebuilt 4 banger in it
for a good price.

Thanks guys

Does anybody know what the efficiency of a lovejoy coupling would be as
opposed to removing the front bearing of the generator and coupling it
hard as is done with commercial units?

I really think getting a vw diesel is worth it if you are planning to
use it much. A lightly loaded diesel uses so much less fuel (I would
think about 65%) compared to a gas engine. Around here old VW diesels
can be bought for about $300 Canadian.

I plan to run mine on a mixture of old fry oil and diesel fuel, and use
the waste heat from the rad and from the exhust to warm my shop a bit
while I am in it.

The money that I spend making it and the little leanto it will be housed
in (about $1000) will be offset by the cost of burying a 250' line from
the house to the garage.

In the long run I would like to add a few batteries and an inverter so
that I don't have to run the generator unless I am using something big
or something three phase.

stan



I would expect it would have about 18-20 hp at 1800 rpm. It has 50 hp
max. A 1.6l or 1.9l turbo one would be more powerful.

stan

stanley baer wrote:

Does anybody know what the efficiency of a lovejoy coupling would be
as opposed to removing the front bearing of the generator and coupling
it hard as is done with commercial units?

Efficiency? It should be so close to 100% you'd have trouble measuring
it. It will probably
devlop some heating as it absorbs the power stroke pulsations of the
engine. But, if this
heating is excessive, it will smoke the rubber part, maning you need a
bigger coupling.
A 25 Hp coupling designed to take IC engine punsihment is going to be
pretty big!

Jon

stanley baer wrote in
:


Does anybody know what the efficiency of a lovejoy coupling would be
as opposed to removing the front bearing of the generator and coupling
it hard as is done with commercial units?


The efficiency would be the same. This is two solid coupling ends with a
rubber insert, in a 6-eared configuration, but provides a direct
connection. Basically, direct drive, with alignment allowance. They are
used everywhere in industry, on small to very, very large loads and
horsepowers.




--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 13:24:14 -0600, stanley baer
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Having worked with a gen set, I am going to run 250 _metres_ of power
line to my shop....

The money that I spend making it and the little leanto it will be housed
in (about $1000) will be offset by the cost of burying a 250' line from
the house to the garage.

In the long run I would like to add a few batteries and an inverter so
that I don't have to run the generator unless I am using something big
or something three phase.

stan

OldNick wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 13:24:14 -0600, stanley baer
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Having worked with a gen set, I am going to run 250 _metres_ of power
line to my shop....




Do you use a phase convertor to get your three phase then?

"Modat22" wrote in message
...
On 7 Feb 2005 17:24:00 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
Found an answer, seems many folks machine a flywheel plate with a
2inch shaft on it, then use a heavy duty lovejoy shaft coupler. Would
love a diesel engine but I found a wreck with a rebuilt 4 banger in it
for a good price.

Keep the transaxle/clutch on the engine. Adapt the CV joint as a PTO to the
gen.
You will need to run the engine at around maximum torque to get best
lifespan/hours efficiency.
Then put the transmission into whichever gear to get the best RPM for the
generator.

Modat22 wrote:

I'm toying with the idea of buying a 25 kw ST generator head and an
old ford escort for the motor and misc running hardware.

I'm trying to think of how I would couple the gen head to the motor
flywheel. I'm thinking of getting a stick shift car and leaving the
clutch and pressure plate installed then robbing the jack shaft from
the transmission. Problem is that I think the generator head alignment
would have to be so accurate as to make it unfeasible for me to do at
home.

Another idea I'm thinking about is having a plate machined that would
bolt to the flywheel and have a 1.5 inch shaft coming off of it that I
could couple to the generator head with a heavy duty rubber insert
type coupler. (I'm concerned that this setup would be hard for me to
balance, and the stresses on the shaft welded to the plate be to high)

Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

thanks

Search McMaster-Carr for couplers. Was just there. - GWE

Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan


Modat22 wrote:

Would anyone have a better idea for me to follow?

thanks

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:

Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan

The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:

Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan

The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

Your Ford escort has 50 bhp @ 1800 rpm?

Tom

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:29:37 -0800, Tom wrote:
Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:

Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan

The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

Your Ford escort has 50 bhp @ 1800 rpm?

I bet not...3600 RPM, maybe.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:29:37 -0800, Tom wrote:

Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:

Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan

The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

Your Ford escort has 50 bhp @ 1800 rpm?

Tom


After chatting with my mechanic friend looks like I'm going to go with
an inline 6 motor since the escort motor will only develop around 25
hp at 1800 rpm unless I put a different cam in it. (Which I don't want
to fudge with). The 6 cylinder should develop 45 plus hp at 1800 rpm.

Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:



Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan



The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.


Good thinking! 50 shaft HP? I guess maybe that is to deal with the problem
of small, air cooled engines being rated on their peak HP. They will melt
down if run at rated HP for more than 5 minutes or so. 25 KW should
actually absorb 33.5 Hp plus the losses in the alternator. 37 Hp should
do it, but of course the engine has to be happy putting out 37 REAL shaft
HP continuously. Now that I think about it, the Escort engine may not
be happy under your full load. Some highway cruise power numbers I've seen
indicate small passenger cars can cruise on 12 - 15 Hp. Of course, there's
extra for air cond, power steering, electrical loads, radiator fan,
transmission
losses (a big one), etc. But, 37 Hp may be equivalent to driving that
poor Escort
at 100 MPH! Maybe without the accessories and transaxle it may be able to
do it, too.

Do you really need the full 25 KW?

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:



Modat22 wrote:

On 7 Feb 2005 13:19:09 -0800, wrote:



Not sure about you generator head, but some have very husky bearings
and will work well belt driven. If you do that, I would look at the
multiple v belts used on cars and get the pulleys from the local scrap
yard. With a belt drive you can drive the generator at something other
than the engine speed.

Dan



The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.


Good thinking! 50 shaft HP? I guess maybe that is to deal with the problem
of small, air cooled engines being rated on their peak HP. They will melt
down if run at rated HP for more than 5 minutes or so. 25 KW should
actually absorb 33.5 Hp plus the losses in the alternator. 37 Hp should
do it, but of course the engine has to be happy putting out 37 REAL shaft
HP continuously. Now that I think about it, the Escort engine may not
be happy under your full load. Some highway cruise power numbers I've seen
indicate small passenger cars can cruise on 12 - 15 Hp. Of course, there's
extra for air cond, power steering, electrical loads, radiator fan,
transmission
losses (a big one), etc. But, 37 Hp may be equivalent to driving that
poor Escort
at 100 MPH! Maybe without the accessories and transaxle it may be able to
do it, too.

Do you really need the full 25 KW?

Jon
I my limited generator experience, the generator sounds like it is
heavily loaded ( and in my case actually slows down well below 1800 rpm)
when you start a big motor, once the motor is running the generator has
no problem. The welder seems to draw more evenly.

stan

Belts can be reliable. The ones that your escort engine uses last a
long time.
Maybe not as long as a lovejoy coupling, but still a long time.
But you probably can not use a lovejoy coupling as your engine is
unlikely to produce 50 hp at 1800 rpm. You may have to run the engine
at 2400 rpm to get 50 hp.

Dan

Modat22 wrote:


The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

"Modat22" wrote in message
...

Dan

The generator head I'm looking at is designed for 1800 rpm and
requires a minimum 50 shaft horsepower. A car engine with a modified
cruise control (use as governor) will fill that bill easily.

I don't trust belts much.

I would bet money that your Ford Escort will not provide 50 HP @ 1800 RPM,
you will need to run the engine faster. Those small cubic inch four bangers
usually produced their HP at pretty high RPM's, 3600 RPM may get you there,
2/1 ratio with belts.

What size engine is that Escort engine?
For example Generac runs a 1.5 liter in their 25 KW standby generators. They
run them at 3600 to get enough HP to spin them. That same engine is run at
1800 RPM on a 15 KW generator.

They do make a 25 KW that runs a 2.5 liter I-4 that runs 1800 RPM.
On their 30 KW that runs at 1800 RPM the run a 3.0 liter V-6.
On their 40 KW that runs at 1800 RPM they run a 3.9 liter V-6

You may be able to run at 2400 RPM with a 1.33 ratio.

If all else fails you can run it at 1800 RPM, but it probably will stall the
engine if you try to load the generator 100%. You may be can load it to
15-20 KW.
Direct drive with a Love-Joy coupling would be the simplest.
Greg