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David Binkowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Well, well, well; Delta MAY have listened - the brand new 14 Band Saw now has a RESILIENT MOUNT motor! shades of yesteryear!

While at Rockler today, I asked one of the employees if he could plug in a
Jet BS and show me what nominal vibration was like. MAN, mine is not
that quiet or stable when it runs, I was dissapointed and decided I had to
do something. Without anything to relate it to, I thought my BS might be
running like it was supposed to (I bought it 7 months ago)...

I believe the model number you're fishing for is the 28-299A (Limited ed.
14" bandsaw) I didn't totally remove the vibes, but I did get rid of the
sway,
which was my primary objective. As long I am not mesmerized by the saw
wagging back and forth I can do my work. I think the 1.5 HP model of 14"
BS might be inherently more prone to vibrate and on the same frame they
sell a 1/2 HP and 1 HP motor. Perhaps its just too overpowered for that
frame ???

I have a friend whose a fellow "worker in wood" and if he's reading this I'm
sure he'll volunteer one of his spare motors for me to try out. :-)

1) Didn't bother putting a nickel on the table... The bandsaw had a
front-back
shimmy of about 1/4 inch when running under no load. Very distracting,
made
me dislike even using the tool, but under load I didn't notice it that
much.
I jimmied the bandsaw back and forth, and it does seem square and solid
on
its footing. Its on mobile base but is seated solid (no twist, weight
distributed
equally on both sides).

2) Went to Rockler, bought link belt. Even though I thought it wasn't the
primary
problem I thought it could be a contributing factor...

3) Took off blade, left belt on to drive lower wheel. Sway wasn't as bad,
but
I could tell the vibes were still there.

4) Took off belt, ran motor alone. Shallower vibes, really hummed unless I
held the tension screw still. A higher frequency since no load on
motor.

5) I didn't remove the motor cuz its heavy and a bitch to mount alone, so I
took 4 toilet washers (those thick cloth reinforced ones) and put them
between the feet on the motor and steel rails its mounted to one at a
time
with bolts loosened. Running the motor this way seemed slightly better
- maybe just psychological.

6) Put the motor pulley in parallel with the upper pulley, put the link belt
on,
turned the sucker on. Ran much smoother, no sway, passed nickel test.
I heard the motor, felt SOME vibes with my hand, but the nickel didn't
budge so that was good enough for me.

7) After putting the blade on and running it again, I decided for kicks to
see
whether the rubber grommits on the motor mounts did the trick, or if it
was the link belt. Changed link belt for original V-belt. Sway came
back,
and seemed no better than before I put rubber washers in. I think the
belt did cause a majority of the problem with it swaying.


Hell, maybe I should bolt my bandsaw cabinet into the concrete floor
(to maintain alignment) then bolt the motor into a thick wood base (bolted
to floor). The motor would not be physically connected to the saw, only
the belt would connect them. :-) Vibes aren't likely to transmit through
a belt, only the motor mount if its connected to the saw base.
Just an idea. I tend to get crazy ideas when I get no satisfaction from an
expensive tool.

--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
gy.com...
To my fellow Wreckers with good memories:

Remember the MANY posts of mine complaining about the Delta band saw
with a 1 1/2 HP motor that vibrated so much I couldn't follow a cut
line? I forgot the model number, but it was the follow-up model to the
1 hp unit that used a resilient mount motor. I had the 1 HP version for
about a week and found it ran smoothly and quite vibration free. Then I
upgraded to the new unit and that's when I found out it's true that you
should be careful what you wish for. The new one vibrated about 5 cps,
which made it darn hard to keep my eyes focused on the blade and cut
line. After several useless attempts by Delta and myself to fix the
problem, the store refunded my money and we parted ways.

Today, while reading the new Fine Woodworking I opened up the Delta X
booklet and perused the "new" tools. There it was in black and white:
the 28-475X band saw: 14" enclosed stand with a "guarded drip proof
motor with resilient mount". It was always my suspicion that the 1 1/2
HP unit vibrated because of the rigidly mounted motor. I complained to
Delta about the change probably being the source of the problem, but of
course the only folks I talked to were the tech support guys, who aren't
in charge of engineering. Perhaps they received a lot more complaints
about that model vibrating and decided to FINALLY FIX THE PROBLEM?

Sooooooooooooo, has anyone got one of these new units? If so, please
try to quantify the vibration level as best you can. I'm still in the
market for a BS and I liked the high table height of the Delta, as I'm 6

4".

TIA


dave



  #2   Report Post  
Bay Area Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default Well, well, well; Delta MAY have listened - the brand new 14Band Saw now has a RESILIENT MOUNT motor! shades of yesteryear!

David, the model number of the NEW Delta X5 series band saw is 28-475X

I also played around with my last Delta BS to stop the heebie jeebies.
I bought a set of 4 isolation mounts (1/4" threaded studs separated by a
big chuck of rubber). Oddly enough, it didn't cure the vibration.
Delta sent me a new top wheel, which I knew wouldn't help, and it
didn't. They sent a new driven pulley and the new one was warped
exactly like the original pulley... after spending many hours and
driving around the valley purchasing little gizmos like the mounts, I
finally had enough of the BS "B.S." and told the dealer I wanted it to
run smooth or a refund. They picked it up and issued a full refund.

dave

David Binkowski wrote:

While at Rockler today, I asked one of the employees if he could plug in a
Jet BS and show me what nominal vibration was like. MAN, mine is not
that quiet or stable when it runs, I was dissapointed and decided I had to
do something. Without anything to relate it to, I thought my BS might be
running like it was supposed to (I bought it 7 months ago)...

I believe the model number you're fishing for is the 28-299A (Limited ed.
14" bandsaw) I didn't totally remove the vibes, but I did get rid of the
sway,
which was my primary objective. As long I am not mesmerized by the saw
wagging back and forth I can do my work. I think the 1.5 HP model of 14"
BS might be inherently more prone to vibrate and on the same frame they
sell a 1/2 HP and 1 HP motor. Perhaps its just too overpowered for that
frame ???

I have a friend whose a fellow "worker in wood" and if he's reading this I'm
sure he'll volunteer one of his spare motors for me to try out. :-)

1) Didn't bother putting a nickel on the table... The bandsaw had a
front-back
shimmy of about 1/4 inch when running under no load. Very distracting,
made
me dislike even using the tool, but under load I didn't notice it that
much.
I jimmied the bandsaw back and forth, and it does seem square and solid
on
its footing. Its on mobile base but is seated solid (no twist, weight
distributed
equally on both sides).

2) Went to Rockler, bought link belt. Even though I thought it wasn't the
primary
problem I thought it could be a contributing factor...

3) Took off blade, left belt on to drive lower wheel. Sway wasn't as bad,
but
I could tell the vibes were still there.

4) Took off belt, ran motor alone. Shallower vibes, really hummed unless I
held the tension screw still. A higher frequency since no load on
motor.

5) I didn't remove the motor cuz its heavy and a bitch to mount alone, so I
took 4 toilet washers (those thick cloth reinforced ones) and put them
between the feet on the motor and steel rails its mounted to one at a
time
with bolts loosened. Running the motor this way seemed slightly better
- maybe just psychological.

6) Put the motor pulley in parallel with the upper pulley, put the link belt
on,
turned the sucker on. Ran much smoother, no sway, passed nickel test.
I heard the motor, felt SOME vibes with my hand, but the nickel didn't
budge so that was good enough for me.

7) After putting the blade on and running it again, I decided for kicks to
see
whether the rubber grommits on the motor mounts did the trick, or if it
was the link belt. Changed link belt for original V-belt. Sway came
back,
and seemed no better than before I put rubber washers in. I think the
belt did cause a majority of the problem with it swaying.


Hell, maybe I should bolt my bandsaw cabinet into the concrete floor
(to maintain alignment) then bolt the motor into a thick wood base (bolted
to floor). The motor would not be physically connected to the saw, only
the belt would connect them. :-) Vibes aren't likely to transmit through
a belt, only the motor mount if its connected to the saw base.
Just an idea. I tend to get crazy ideas when I get no satisfaction from an
expensive tool.


  #3   Report Post  
John Cole
 
Posts: n/a
Default Well, well, well; Delta MAY have listened - the brand new 14 Band Saw now has a RESILIENT MOUNT motor! shades of yesteryear!

I also followed Todd Stock's advice - Cast Iron Sheave, link belt -
problem solved.




On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:06:28 GMT, mebeep wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:49:46 GMT, "David Binkowski"
wrote:

David,

Have you replaced the alloy sheave (pulley) with a cast iron one? I
too bought the 28-299a and had a vibration problem. I followed the
advice of Todd Stock from an earlier wreck posting:

You did get the best of the 14" saws, but in adding power to the package, Delta made a cost engineering change that moved them in the direction of the imports, quality-wise.
The problem with the new Delta 1.5 hp is that they up'd the motor speed from 1750 to 3450 (to keep the price point for the motor and drive train identical to the old 28-299) and replaced the excellent balanced steel and iron pulleys that were supplied with the old 3/4 and 1 hp saws with the same crappy cast alloy sheaves that the Jets and other imports are using. This drive train vibe is more noticeable than on the imports because speed is doubled and power is higher on the new Deltas.
Junk the alloy sheave (the motor is likely a machined steel sheave and is probably OK) and invest in a cast iron, balanced Browning sheave for the driven shaft - about $28 from MSC. Make sure you get the proper bore (3/4") and correct 4L pitch diameter (NOT the same as the outside diameter).
Also - swap to a link belt. These are the fixes that Iturra recommends for the Jet and other imports, and appears to be necessary for the new Delta 1.5 hp as well.


The vibration is my machine with the cast iron sheave, the Fenner Link
belt, and a quality (Woodslicer) blade is nil to undetectable.

Brian


Hell, maybe I should bolt my bandsaw cabinet into the concrete floor
(to maintain alignment) then bolt the motor into a thick wood base (bolted
to floor). The motor would not be physically connected to the saw, only
the belt would connect them. :-) Vibes aren't likely to transmit through
a belt, only the motor mount if its connected to the saw base.
Just an idea. I tend to get crazy ideas when I get no satisfaction from an
expensive tool.


  #4   Report Post  
David Binkowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Well, well, well; Delta MAY have listened - the brand new 14 Band Saw now has a RESILIENT MOUNT motor! shades of yesteryear!

Link belt did alot in the way of stopping the movement of the
saw. Recommend you try that Bay Area Dave... After I
removed the motor and set it up clamped to a stool (to isolate
what was exactly was at fault) I also tried the old belt on it.
Not good...

But the good news is, without the motor touching any part
of the saw's cabinet, the saw ran really, really smoothly.
I couldn't feel much of anything. Now I know the wheels
are balanced fine, its the motor causing all the vibes.

Next, I shall seek out the cast iron sheave.

--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"John Cole" wrote in message
...
I also followed Todd Stock's advice - Cast Iron Sheave, link belt -
problem solved.




On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:06:28 GMT, mebeep wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:49:46 GMT, "David Binkowski"
wrote:

David,

Have you replaced the alloy sheave (pulley) with a cast iron one? I
too bought the 28-299a and had a vibration problem. I followed the
advice of Todd Stock from an earlier wreck posting:

You did get the best of the 14" saws, but in adding power to the

package, Delta made a cost engineering change that moved them in the
direction of the imports, quality-wise.
The problem with the new Delta 1.5 hp is that they up'd the motor speed

from 1750 to 3450 (to keep the price point for the motor and drive train
identical to the old 28-299) and replaced the excellent balanced steel and
iron pulleys that were supplied with the old 3/4 and 1 hp saws with the same
crappy cast alloy sheaves that the Jets and other imports are using. This
drive train vibe is more noticeable than on the imports because speed is
doubled and power is higher on the new Deltas.
Junk the alloy sheave (the motor is likely a machined steel sheave and

is probably OK) and invest in a cast iron, balanced Browning sheave for the
driven shaft - about $28 from MSC. Make sure you get the proper bore (3/4")
and correct 4L pitch diameter (NOT the same as the outside diameter).
Also - swap to a link belt. These are the fixes that Iturra recommends

for the Jet and other imports, and appears to be necessary for the new Delta
1.5 hp as well.

The vibration is my machine with the cast iron sheave, the Fenner Link
belt, and a quality (Woodslicer) blade is nil to undetectable.

Brian


Hell, maybe I should bolt my bandsaw cabinet into the concrete floor
(to maintain alignment) then bolt the motor into a thick wood base

(bolted
to floor). The motor would not be physically connected to the saw, only
the belt would connect them. :-) Vibes aren't likely to transmit

through
a belt, only the motor mount if its connected to the saw base.
Just an idea. I tend to get crazy ideas when I get no satisfaction from

an
expensive tool.




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