I am in the process of putting together a freestanding "roof" over my
welding table and parts of my backyard. A cover as you will. Awning.
Sun shade. Pole barn with no side walls.
This is to provide shade during the summer months and some rain
protection during the winter months. It will be open on all for sides
with a dirt floor, of course. I plan on putting my 4x8 steel welding
bench under it on one end, perhaps at the other end the table and
radial arm saw and the planer and I can extend it a bit to be able to
work on machine tools or drive a vehicle partially under it for
service and repair. This being California..snow is not normally an
issue G I live in an unincorporated area of the county. Things are
pretty lax regulation wise in this particular area. Shrug.

The big issue is utilizing the materials I have on hand with minimal
cash outlay. Seriously big issue. Most important issue.

I have a good quantity of 16' long 4x8s and 11 joints of 3" pipe, 11
feet long. I have 50 pieces of 5" C channel, about 4' long. The
timbers came from an old building that was torn down and are well aged
and quite dry.

Because of the layout of my yard, and placement of septic tank and
vertical dry well, sinking the posts into the ground is possible, but
Id rather make the thing free standing, so it could be disassembled
and moved at a later date if access to the septic tank and dry well is
needed. If I concrete them into the ground...I cant bring in a rig to
repunch the dry well (which Ill have to do before long). If I
construct this properly, I should be able to simply stick an eye bolt
in each corner, and hoist the entire thing with a hydrocrane and
simply move it over some distance. Also, built free standing..I
shouldnt need a building permit in my area. Or..can get away with
it... There are lots of these things around here, most welded from
pipe and used by weekend mechanics and so forth.

A friend brought me the pipe, cut to 11 feet. A bit long for
freestanding, but perfect for sinking into the ground.

My plan was..was to use 1' sections of the C channel, with the C
facing upwards, with a pipe leg welded into it as a foot. The other
end would have a 1' section of C channel facing up, welded to the top
of each pipe leg. The 4x6 will set inside the channel perfectly and
may be secured via a couple lag bolts from the bottom.

Some opinions are solicited....G

How high should I make the roof? 7'? 8' 9'?
Too high and I loose the shade effect and the rain blows under it.

Ill need to cut off the pipe, so this is pretty important.

How big should I really make this beast? Bigger the better? I will
probably need to be able to hoist it to move it with a hydrocrane.

Should I make it 16' x 16' square? Assume I can orient it in any
direction. Should I make it rectangular? Id rather not cut down any
of the timbers if I can avoid it, but...shrug. The area I have
available is aprox 50' wide by 50' deep and still remain close to the
house and power, etc.

How many posts do I need to support a 16x16 square flat topped "roof"
made of 4x8s 16' long.
Obviously 1 on each corner..but do I need to put a post every 8'?
Will those 4x8s sag much with a 16' span?
I figure I need to put at least one timber down the middle of the
"roof" to allow an 8' span for nailing the roofing to. Probably
corrigated sheet metal laid on 2x4s on tie plates nailed to the
timbers. Will a 4' joist be sufficent for a simple sheetmetal roof?
or do I need to go every 2 feet? I actually dont know what sizes
corrugated sheet metal comes in. and what clear span is appropriate.

Is there another product that would be similar in cost that would be
better for this purpose? Id love to be able to scround an old gas
station overhead...but no luck so far and I need to do this ASAP. As
I have the materials of the basic frame, I will need to use a tarp as
the roof until I can scrounge up some roof material, or afford to buy
some sheets of whatever.

My plan is to bolt the corners together using a single 3x3" steel
angle about 6" long vertically inside each butted corner and tied to
each beam with a chunk of all thread drilled through the 4" thickness
of the beam, and bolted inside and out, rather than using lag bolts.
Id be concerned about lifting the whole thing if it was only lag
bolted together. I figure that the whole thing may go 2000 lbs if its
16x16 feet square, including the 3" pipe legs and timbers.

If I took a pair of 1' chunks of that C channel, and cut them on a 45'
angle, and turned them upside down in a welded L shape, I could weld
the posts to the bottom, then secure the post brackets to the corner
with lag bolts. 2 in each beam 8" apart. The timbers would be resting
on top of the Ls and then lag bolted from the bottom.

Would this be stiff enough to not need diagnal braces from the posts
to the beams? There will be little if any side loading, except for
the odd wind gust.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Gunner, who can build a house to code...but is having a bit of a
problem doing this critter.



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

I have an old friend of mine, Sidney, who is quite fond of mounting all
his buildings, even his open buildings and carport, on skids, so much that
folks call him "Skidney." Sid uses tree trunks from his property or any big
timbers he has at hand. Whenever he feels the urge, he simply drags it
somewhere else. He's lost several trees in recent windstorms, so the timber
skids provide mass and the wind provides the skids. Very stout.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
| I am in the process of putting together a freestanding "roof" over my
| welding table and parts of my backyard. A cover as you will. Awning.
| Sun shade. Pole barn with no side walls.
| This is to provide shade during the summer months and some rain
| protection during the winter months. It will be open on all for sides
| with a dirt floor, of course. I plan on putting my 4x8 steel welding
| bench under it on one end, perhaps at the other end the table and
| radial arm saw and the planer and I can extend it a bit to be able to
| work on machine tools or drive a vehicle partially under it for
| service and repair. This being California..snow is not normally an
| issue G I live in an unincorporated area of the county. Things are
| pretty lax regulation wise in this particular area. Shrug.
|
| The big issue is utilizing the materials I have on hand with minimal
| cash outlay. Seriously big issue. Most important issue.
|
| I have a good quantity of 16' long 4x8s and 11 joints of 3" pipe, 11
| feet long. I have 50 pieces of 5" C channel, about 4' long. The
| timbers came from an old building that was torn down and are well aged
| and quite dry.
|
| Because of the layout of my yard, and placement of septic tank and
| vertical dry well, sinking the posts into the ground is possible, but
| Id rather make the thing free standing, so it could be disassembled
| and moved at a later date if access to the septic tank and dry well is
| needed. If I concrete them into the ground...I cant bring in a rig to
| repunch the dry well (which Ill have to do before long). If I
| construct this properly, I should be able to simply stick an eye bolt
| in each corner, and hoist the entire thing with a hydrocrane and
| simply move it over some distance. Also, built free standing..I
| shouldnt need a building permit in my area. Or..can get away with
| it... There are lots of these things around here, most welded from
| pipe and used by weekend mechanics and so forth.
|
| A friend brought me the pipe, cut to 11 feet. A bit long for
| freestanding, but perfect for sinking into the ground.
|
| My plan was..was to use 1' sections of the C channel, with the C
| facing upwards, with a pipe leg welded into it as a foot. The other
| end would have a 1' section of C channel facing up, welded to the top
| of each pipe leg. The 4x6 will set inside the channel perfectly and
| may be secured via a couple lag bolts from the bottom.
|
| Some opinions are solicited....G
|
| How high should I make the roof? 7'? 8' 9'?
| Too high and I loose the shade effect and the rain blows under it.
|
| Ill need to cut off the pipe, so this is pretty important.
|
| How big should I really make this beast? Bigger the better? I will
| probably need to be able to hoist it to move it with a hydrocrane.
|
| Should I make it 16' x 16' square? Assume I can orient it in any
| direction. Should I make it rectangular? Id rather not cut down any
| of the timbers if I can avoid it, but...shrug. The area I have
| available is aprox 50' wide by 50' deep and still remain close to the
| house and power, etc.
|
| How many posts do I need to support a 16x16 square flat topped "roof"
| made of 4x8s 16' long.
| Obviously 1 on each corner..but do I need to put a post every 8'?
| Will those 4x8s sag much with a 16' span?
| I figure I need to put at least one timber down the middle of the
| "roof" to allow an 8' span for nailing the roofing to. Probably
| corrigated sheet metal laid on 2x4s on tie plates nailed to the
| timbers. Will a 4' joist be sufficent for a simple sheetmetal roof?
| or do I need to go every 2 feet? I actually dont know what sizes
| corrugated sheet metal comes in. and what clear span is appropriate.
|
| Is there another product that would be similar in cost that would be
| better for this purpose? Id love to be able to scround an old gas
| station overhead...but no luck so far and I need to do this ASAP. As
| I have the materials of the basic frame, I will need to use a tarp as
| the roof until I can scrounge up some roof material, or afford to buy
| some sheets of whatever.
|
| My plan is to bolt the corners together using a single 3x3" steel
| angle about 6" long vertically inside each butted corner and tied to
| each beam with a chunk of all thread drilled through the 4" thickness
| of the beam, and bolted inside and out, rather than using lag bolts.
| Id be concerned about lifting the whole thing if it was only lag
| bolted together. I figure that the whole thing may go 2000 lbs if its
| 16x16 feet square, including the 3" pipe legs and timbers.
|
| If I took a pair of 1' chunks of that C channel, and cut them on a 45'
| angle, and turned them upside down in a welded L shape, I could weld
| the posts to the bottom, then secure the post brackets to the corner
| with lag bolts. 2 in each beam 8" apart. The timbers would be resting
| on top of the Ls and then lag bolted from the bottom.
|
| Would this be stiff enough to not need diagnal braces from the posts
| to the beams? There will be little if any side loading, except for
| the odd wind gust.
|
| Any suggestions would be appreciated.
|
| Gunner, who can build a house to code...but is having a bit of a
| problem doing this critter.
|
|
|
| "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
| miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
| demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
| Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

How high should I make the roof? 7'? 8' 9'?
Too high and I loose the shade effect and the rain blows under it.

Make it higher than 8'. You ever know when you want to stand that sheet
of plywood up or flip it over. It's nice to have a ceiling height that
is a bit higher than the 4' X 8" plywood. :-)

B

- If you are talking 4x8x16 as in dimensional lumber then you can run 16'
without any worries, and it should handle the occasional snowfall as well.
- I would definately go over 8' with your INTERIOR ceiling height, make sure
you have 8' clear to the lowest point of the roof strucure.
- Bracing is your friend on structures such as your describing. I would 45
all four corners, eight braces total.
- You may also want to consider having drip edge on the roof as well,
about 16" deep all sides. It may seem a little much right now but I can tell
you that it will stop all but the harshest rain from getting to the centre
of the structure.
- If you are set on free standing, I would say use the full 11' and dig
holes at the corners and sink the post to get your desired height. This way
if you choose to move it to uneven ground or change to main use of the
strucutre you will have room for adjustment.
Good luck on your project...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of putting together a freestanding "roof" over my
welding table and parts of my backyard. A cover as you will. Awning.
Sun shade. Pole barn with no side walls.
This is to provide shade during the summer months and some rain
protection during the winter months. It will be open on all for sides
with a dirt floor, of course. I plan on putting my 4x8 steel welding
bench under it on one end, perhaps at the other end the table and
radial arm saw and the planer and I can extend it a bit to be able to
work on machine tools or drive a vehicle partially under it for
service and repair. This being California..snow is not normally an
issue G I live in an unincorporated area of the county. Things are
pretty lax regulation wise in this particular area. Shrug.

The big issue is utilizing the materials I have on hand with minimal
cash outlay. Seriously big issue. Most important issue.

I have a good quantity of 16' long 4x8s and 11 joints of 3" pipe, 11
feet long. I have 50 pieces of 5" C channel, about 4' long. The
timbers came from an old building that was torn down and are well aged
and quite dry.

Because of the layout of my yard, and placement of septic tank and
vertical dry well, sinking the posts into the ground is possible, but
Id rather make the thing free standing, so it could be disassembled
and moved at a later date if access to the septic tank and dry well is
needed. If I concrete them into the ground...I cant bring in a rig to
repunch the dry well (which Ill have to do before long). If I
construct this properly, I should be able to simply stick an eye bolt
in each corner, and hoist the entire thing with a hydrocrane and
simply move it over some distance. Also, built free standing..I
shouldnt need a building permit in my area. Or..can get away with
it... There are lots of these things around here, most welded from
pipe and used by weekend mechanics and so forth.

A friend brought me the pipe, cut to 11 feet. A bit long for
freestanding, but perfect for sinking into the ground.

My plan was..was to use 1' sections of the C channel, with the C
facing upwards, with a pipe leg welded into it as a foot. The other
end would have a 1' section of C channel facing up, welded to the top
of each pipe leg. The 4x6 will set inside the channel perfectly and
may be secured via a couple lag bolts from the bottom.

Some opinions are solicited....G

How high should I make the roof? 7'? 8' 9'?
Too high and I loose the shade effect and the rain blows under it.

Ill need to cut off the pipe, so this is pretty important.

How big should I really make this beast? Bigger the better? I will
probably need to be able to hoist it to move it with a hydrocrane.

Should I make it 16' x 16' square? Assume I can orient it in any
direction. Should I make it rectangular? Id rather not cut down any
of the timbers if I can avoid it, but...shrug. The area I have
available is aprox 50' wide by 50' deep and still remain close to the
house and power, etc.

How many posts do I need to support a 16x16 square flat topped "roof"
made of 4x8s 16' long.
Obviously 1 on each corner..but do I need to put a post every 8'?
Will those 4x8s sag much with a 16' span?
I figure I need to put at least one timber down the middle of the
"roof" to allow an 8' span for nailing the roofing to. Probably
corrigated sheet metal laid on 2x4s on tie plates nailed to the
timbers. Will a 4' joist be sufficent for a simple sheetmetal roof?
or do I need to go every 2 feet? I actually dont know what sizes
corrugated sheet metal comes in. and what clear span is appropriate.

Is there another product that would be similar in cost that would be
better for this purpose? Id love to be able to scround an old gas
station overhead...but no luck so far and I need to do this ASAP. As
I have the materials of the basic frame, I will need to use a tarp as
the roof until I can scrounge up some roof material, or afford to buy
some sheets of whatever.

My plan is to bolt the corners together using a single 3x3" steel
angle about 6" long vertically inside each butted corner and tied to
each beam with a chunk of all thread drilled through the 4" thickness
of the beam, and bolted inside and out, rather than using lag bolts.
Id be concerned about lifting the whole thing if it was only lag
bolted together. I figure that the whole thing may go 2000 lbs if its
16x16 feet square, including the 3" pipe legs and timbers.

If I took a pair of 1' chunks of that C channel, and cut them on a 45'
angle, and turned them upside down in a welded L shape, I could weld
the posts to the bottom, then secure the post brackets to the corner
with lag bolts. 2 in each beam 8" apart. The timbers would be resting
on top of the Ls and then lag bolted from the bottom.

Would this be stiff enough to not need diagnal braces from the posts
to the beams? There will be little if any side loading, except for
the odd wind gust.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Gunner, who can build a house to code...but is having a bit of a
problem doing this critter.



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:09:59 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Because of the layout of my yard, and placement of septic tank and
vertical dry well, sinking the posts into the ground is possible, but
Id rather make the thing free standing, so it could be disassembled
and moved at a later date if access to the septic tank and dry well is
needed. If I concrete them into the ground...I cant bring in a rig to
repunch the dry well (which Ill have to do before long). If I
construct this properly, I should be able to simply stick an eye bolt
in each corner, and hoist the entire thing with a hydrocrane and
simply move it over some distance.

I assume gale force winds are not a regular thing in your area, but
can you say they never happen?

Might be rather more portable than you intended!

snip

I assume gale force winds are not a regular thing in your area, but
can you say they never happen?

Might be rather more portable than you intended!


True, but with a pyramid shaped roof, the lift would be minimal except in,
perhaps, hurricane strength wind.

just my 2 cents

Bill

I'd like to add that if rain or slight wind causes any problems, why
not string a cable on some eyebolts and use tarps as curtains. You
could open and close as needed.
Ron

In article , Gunner says...

Would this be stiff enough to not need diagnal braces from the posts
to the beams? There will be little if any side loading, except for
the odd wind gust.

I've always been a big fan of triangles. So most of the stuff
I build includes a generous helping of them, as large as possible.

BTW nobody seems to have picked up on your title. I always thought
that was a great series, when they pulled that off the air was
right about the time I realized that the TV management took
itself *real* seriously and did not like somebody spoofing
them - while at the same time the programming was specifically
designed to do exactly what they were talking about in that
show. That's when I decided to eliminate network TV from
the household.

Best of luck on your new project - that's one thing you
just can't have enough of: space!

Jim


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please reply to:
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==================================================

On 11 Jan 2005 14:14:13 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

BTW nobody seems to have picked up on your title. I always thought
that was a great series, when they pulled that off the air was
right about the time I realized that the TV management took
itself *real* seriously and did not like somebody spoofing
them - while at the same time the programming was specifically
designed to do exactly what they were talking about in that
show. That's when I decided to eliminate network TV from
the household.


Ya, it was a great show.
Although, I've always thought of Gunner as more of the "Blank Reg"
character than as "Max".

Paul K. DIckman

Gunner wrote:

I have a good quantity of 16' long 4x8s and 11 joints of 3" pipe, 11
feet long. I have 50 pieces of 5" C channel, about 4' long.


Id rather make the thing free standing, so it could be disassembled
and moved

You asked..and keep in mind this is me, and if I was normal I wouldn't
be here.

First of all, do you really mean a _flat_ roof? You might want to put
some slope in it to let the rain run off.

For the bents: you have 16' timbers that you want to use for joists.
That means that allowing for overhang (and a little for the slope), one
of your dimensions will be limited to about 14'. If you used a 7' span,
and made a framed opening, you would use 9 of the pipes. Use some of the
channel for diagonal bracing. The remainder gets used as a welded
together H heam around the base.

This is where it gets peculiar. The Santa Anas blow through there, and
you don't want this thing to be launched into the house, but you need to
move it. Dig some fencepost type holes to go under the H beam foot. Fill
them (below grade, you may want to hide this later) with concrete and
place a rebar U and a mounting plate on top. On the mounting plate,
mount the axle and 4" wide wheel assembly (made of wood, aluminum or
whatever) facing up. When you place the H beam on it, it makes an
inverse track. Weld an ear to the upright beam and run a piece of steel
cable (you did say oil country) through the rebar U in the concrete and
the tab. Secure the cable with clamps. When you need to move the
structure, loosen the cable and push the structure out of the way. You
could forget the wheels and just use sections of pipe as rollers, but
that isn't as much fun.

If you ask tomorrow, I'll have a different plan.

Kevin Gallimore

In article ,
says...

Ya, it was a great show.
Although, I've always thought of Gunner as more of the "Blank Reg"
character than as "Max".

Hahahahahaha. That's exactly what I was thinking.
I wonder who Dom is?

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 11 Jan 2005 12:37:55 -0800, "doo" wrote:

I'd like to add that if rain or slight wind causes any problems, why
not string a cable on some eyebolts and use tarps as curtains. You
could open and close as needed.
Ron

Matter of fact, that can be pretty good (and cheap) bracing, too. I
once had a little shop, 8'x20', that I built on a skid. I built the
skid of 2"x8" heavy penta treated lumber, nailed with 20d into 6"x8".
There were two full length runners with similar cross members. I then
crossed that with 3/8" galvanized cable on eye bolts and turnbuckles.
The rest was standard stud construction with the usual 1"x4" diagonals
let in, etc.

When it came time to move, we had to swivel it around a tree 90 deg,
then winch it up on my dad's truck. No problem, nothing ever wiggled.

Uprights that are free on the bottom could be a problem. The previous
post about diagonals is good, but you've got to have something to
diagonal to, preferably in x and y directions. You could make the
sides like a gate, with a bottom member to take compression and one or
two diagonals to keep it from racking.

Good luck.

Pete Keillor

On 11 Jan 2005 17:35:40 -0800, jim rozen
calmly ranted:

In article ,
says...

Ya, it was a great show.
Although, I've always thought of Gunner as more of the "Blank Reg"
character than as "Max".

Hahahahahaha. That's exactly what I was thinking.
I wonder who Dom is?

Who cares? Just send the graceful Theora Jones to me, will ya?
I've been in lust with Amanda Pays since I first laid eyes on her.


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In article , Larry Jaques says...

I've been in lust with Amanda Pays since I first laid eyes on her.

What a great name, eh?

Jim


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==================================================
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==================================================

On 12 Jan 2005 17:12:33 -0800, jim rozen
calmly ranted:

In article , Larry Jaques says...

I've been in lust with Amanda Pays since I first laid eyes on her.

What a great name, eh?

Yeah, and for her, I'd be really cheap. My favorite women are
Ashley Judd, Sandra Bullock, and Diane Lane, in that order. Of
course, I have about as much chance with them as Max does, and
he's off the air. sigh

Back to metal, where do you guys buy your steel and aluminum plate
for projects? I got some motors in the mail today and need either
blind plates or 3-4" diameter faceplates for them (5/16" D and 3/8"
round shafts.)


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