I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

On 10 Jan 2005 10:40:37 -0800, wrote:
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

I'd ask in a Ham Radio group. Be prepared for a _very_ long thread
with your answer maybe buried if you're lucky.

Dave "Learned long ago to be careful asking a Ham for antenna advice" Hinz

wrote:

I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

If it's a fixed antenna like a J-pole then painting it with something
nonconductive would probably help in the long term.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

wrote:
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?


As long as you don't use a conductive paint over insulated portions I
don't see any reason why it should affect it except in a positive
sense...if it's outdoors, it'll forstall corrosion of the metal parts.

I just noticed GM is back to putting the car radio antennas in the
windows again. SWMBO's latest "new to her" '03 Buick has the antenna in
the back window, IIRC they were part of the windshield a while back.
Haven't studied it to see if they got dual usage out of the defroster
heater elements by making the antenna out of that, but rest assured my
curious mind will have me doing that before long.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On 10 Jan 2005 10:40:37 -0800, wrote:

I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

Non conductive paints, no. If you're painting it, you might want to
make sure you go back after it's up and paint over the terminals too,
might make it a pain to disconnect, but would prevent corrosion. Spar
varnish works well too.

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a wonderful
news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are alot of really well
informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

No problem. Krylon, Rustoleum.... paint away.

-Spencer
www.antennasys.com


wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after* discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are interested
in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any* antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:HUAEd.4234$u47.1003@trnddc09...

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a wonderful
news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are alot of really
well informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

wrote:
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?



How do you expect the signal to get in or out of the metal antenna if
you cover it up with paint? G

John
W7JDA

Why would conductive paint hurt it? It shouldn't change the wave length.
Assume nothing shorted with the paint.


If it's a fixed antenna like a J-pole then painting it with something
nonconductive would probably help in the long term.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Some radio companies, Motorola for one, used to paint their comm. site
antennas, tops of tall buildings mostly, "sky color". This rendered the
antennas less noticeable against the sky as back drop. Of course, the "sky
paint" is non-conductive. AFAIK, the procedure was developed by Motorola's
own premier Engineer, Russ Larson in Dallas. Russ is still there as Antenna
Site Manager, Emeritus of some of Dallas' skyscrapers.

Bob Swinney
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 10 Jan 2005 10:40:37 -0800,
wrote:
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

I'd ask in a Ham Radio group. Be prepared for a _very_ long thread
with your answer maybe buried if you're lucky.

Dave "Learned long ago to be careful asking a Ham for antenna advice" Hinz

Antennas of the type used on large antenna sites such as building tops and
mountian sites are generally gain arrays, vertically oriented and housed in
a plastic-like radome. They are several feet tall and only a few inches in
diameter. Paint would not be a good idea for obvious reasons on this type
of antenna.

Bob (ex-antenna site manager) Swinney

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
m...
Why would conductive paint hurt it? It shouldn't change the wave length.
Assume nothing shorted with the paint.


If it's a fixed antenna like a J-pole then painting it with something
nonconductive would probably help in the long term.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Styped

I see that there are posts on the Antenna Group that reguard you to be a
TROLL. Is that true?? Is this antenna questioning on RCM a way for you to
have fun with the helpfull guys on RCM?

Jerry



"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:s5BEd.4242$u47.3172@trnddc09...

STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after* discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are
interested in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any* antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:HUAEd.4234$u47.1003@trnddc09...

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a
wonderful news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are alot
of really well informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design
engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

Tom Gardner wrote:
Why would conductive paint hurt it? It shouldn't change the wave length.
Assume nothing shorted with the paint.



If it's a fixed antenna like a J-pole then painting it with something
nonconductive would probably help in the long term.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com


RF current flow is confined primarily to the outer edge of a conductor
("skin effect"). So you can have the highest-conductivity material in
the world for the antenna, but if you use conductive paint your RF power
will be flowing through -- and being consumed by -- the paint.

So unless the paint has a higher bulk conductivity than the metal, use
nonconductive paint.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Jerry Martes wrote:
Styped

I see that there are posts on the Antenna Group that reguard you to
be a
TROLL. Is that true?? Is this antenna questioning on RCM a way for
you to
have fun with the helpfull guys on RCM?

Jerry



"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:s5BEd.4242$u47.3172@trnddc09...

STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and
see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in
a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after*
discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are
interested in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any*
antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:HUAEd.4234$u47.1003@trnddc09...

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a
wonderful news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are
alot
of really well informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try
it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design
engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld
painting it
interfere with it's performance?


I honestly plan to build one. I am going to my first ham event Saturday
and hope to pick a radio up. I just ask alot of questions because I
want to be educated. Some people get tired of my questions but they are
legitimate questions.

Right now I cant decide whther to build a ground plane or j pole and
what materials. I would also like to build a scanner antenna for
airplane frequencies. But 108 139 mhz is alot of ground to cover. I am
not sure one j pole or ground plane would work in that situation.

Please understand just because I ask alot of questions does not make me
a troll. I just want to learn and build this the right way.

Thnx Jerry for the poss. Troll Alert. That's all we need: A HAM wanna-be
loose on RCM.

Bob Swinney
wrote in message
oups.com...

Jerry Martes wrote:
Styped

I see that there are posts on the Antenna Group that reguard you to
be a
TROLL. Is that true?? Is this antenna questioning on RCM a way for
you to
have fun with the helpfull guys on RCM?

Jerry



"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:s5BEd.4242$u47.3172@trnddc09...

STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and
see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in
a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after*
discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are
interested in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any*
antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:HUAEd.4234$u47.1003@trnddc09...

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a
wonderful news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are
alot
of really well informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try
it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design
engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld
painting it
interfere with it's performance?


I honestly plan to build one. I am going to my first ham event Saturday
and hope to pick a radio up. I just ask alot of questions because I
want to be educated. Some people get tired of my questions but they are
legitimate questions.

Right now I cant decide whther to build a ground plane or j pole and
what materials. I would also like to build a scanner antenna for
airplane frequencies. But 108 139 mhz is alot of ground to cover. I am
not sure one j pole or ground plane would work in that situation.

Please understand just because I ask alot of questions does not make me
a troll. I just want to learn and build this the right way.

In article , Robert Swinney says...

Thnx Jerry for the poss. Troll Alert. That's all we need: A HAM wanna-be
loose on RCM.

Yeah, and what's with the hotmail address?

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 10 Jan 2005 14:10:39 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Robert Swinney says...

Thnx Jerry for the poss. Troll Alert. That's all we need: A HAM wanna-be
loose on RCM.

Yeah, and what's with the hotmail address?

Well now, not _every_ person posting from hotmail is a troll.

Dave "It just seems that way..." Hinz

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:56:08 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:


STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after* discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are interested
in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any* antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry

A side note to the viewers...Jerry has forgotten more about antenna
design than most of us will ever know. And the military loves his
work...they keep sticking them up.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Makes sense, thanks!

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
Why would conductive paint hurt it? It shouldn't change the wave length.
Assume nothing shorted with the paint.



If it's a fixed antenna like a J-pole then painting it with something
nonconductive would probably help in the long term.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com


RF current flow is confined primarily to the outer edge of a conductor
("skin effect"). So you can have the highest-conductivity material in the
world for the antenna, but if you use conductive paint your RF power will
be flowing through -- and being consumed by -- the paint.

So unless the paint has a higher bulk conductivity than the metal, use
nonconductive paint.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Metal content to follow under the discone topic (I had to reach
to get it in there ;-))


Ground plane first. Just get something working to start with.

J poles are a blast but a bit 'fiddley' as a first antenna in my
opinion.
That's what makes them a kick to play with.

Do your scanner as a separate antenna for now. (just get something
working).
A home brewed discone might be fun. but for now, how about another
ground plane?
A look at a discone will give you any number of ideas on how to get the
ground plane
elements at the right angle. An indexing jig on an angle table in the
drill press would
make a nice looking start.

I'm doing a bad thing and not getting involved in the rest of the
discussion, but what
you need is an antenna you can listen with while you're building the
ultimate loaded
happy hoohaa bedspring grounded gopher catcher. At least that way you
have something
to listen to, and compare the results of each of the new antennas with.

When you get your ticket, inverted V if you're on HF, and a ground
plane for vhf. You'll
find you end up hanging out on mostly the same area of a band, just
tune them up, get
em running, and build the ultimate wave catcher next weekend. in the
mean time, you'll
have something that you can listen to.

Humm,,, I guess from my stand point, just get something in the air,
even if it's just a long
wire into the trees. It's a lot easier to work on an antenna, or other
project (even in the lathe)
if you've a good receiver running in the back ground.

Now for all the other guys,,, just get something up for now, then as
soon as you get your
super special rig running you can always take the ratty old thing down.

Did I say just get something working?
Good luck, have fun, and it's a hobby,,, it's supposed to be fun!

Styped

I'm an old guy who has asked probably more questions that you ever will.
I have no problem with those who ask questions. I do have some information
asking questions from which you intend to get educated.
The answers you get about facts will be very difficult to distinguish from
farietales when you submit the questions to either Internet news groups
and/or HAM radio forums.
Go to a HAM swapmeet and pick up a book, any book that is afordable and
might cover the subject you have questions about.
If you read the posts on the Antenna news group, you will find several
really well informed guys who will communicate with you Off Line. That
group is loaded with antenna guys who truely know their stuff. Several
have published extensively on the Internet. Try contacting Richard Clark in
the Antenna news group for decent guidance.

Jerry



wrote in message
oups.com...

Jerry Martes wrote:
Styped

I see that there are posts on the Antenna Group that reguard you to
be a
TROLL. Is that true?? Is this antenna questioning on RCM a way for
you to
have fun with the helpfull guys on RCM?

Jerry



"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:s5BEd.4242$u47.3172@trnddc09...

STRYPED

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and
see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in
a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after*
discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are
interested in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any*
antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

Jerry


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:HUAEd.4234$u47.1003@trnddc09...

Stryped

If you want to *discuss* the properties of antennas, there is a
wonderful news group named Rec Radio Amatuer Antennas. There are
alot
of really well informed antenna guys there.
My advice would be that you build the antenna from EMT and try
it. Isnt
thats what HAM is 'all about'??

Jerry (who made his living as an antenna design
engineer)



wrote in message
oups.com...
I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld
painting it
interfere with it's performance?


I honestly plan to build one. I am going to my first ham event Saturday
and hope to pick a radio up. I just ask alot of questions because I
want to be educated. Some people get tired of my questions but they are
legitimate questions.

Right now I cant decide whther to build a ground plane or j pole and
what materials. I would also like to build a scanner antenna for
airplane frequencies. But 108 139 mhz is alot of ground to cover. I am
not sure one j pole or ground plane would work in that situation.

Please understand just because I ask alot of questions does not make me
a troll. I just want to learn and build this the right way.

wrote:

I am going to make aan antenna for my 2 meter radio. WOuld painting it
interfere with it's performance?

Yes. Smog interferes with it also. However not by much - would it be a
transmitter - no big deal - a feeble signal receiver most likely.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Robert Swinney wrote:

Some radio companies, Motorola for one, used to paint their comm. site
antennas, tops of tall buildings mostly, "sky color". This rendered the
antennas less noticeable against the sky as back drop. Of course, the "sky
paint" is non-conductive. AFAIK, the procedure was developed by Motorola's
own premier Engineer, Russ Larson in Dallas. Russ is still there as Antenna
Site Manager, Emeritus of some of Dallas' skyscrapers.

Bob Swinney
Wow - used to consult with that group - 24 years ago has it been - Phew!
Flew all over the U.S. installing computer systems for REA power / load control.
Naturally it drove at least one Motorola transmitter.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Thanks for your help. I have been leanign toward the ground plane but
have been confused at some of the articles I have been reading:

I have a radio shack antenna book that has a saple plan for building a
small wire antenna directly to a pl connector. It says that radials for
a ground plane are bent to determine the antenna's impedance. But I
have seen some that were not bent.

I would like to build something I would not have to fool with once it
is up because I plan to put it high atop my tv antenna tower and I am
not crazy about heights!

The other thing that bothers me about a ground plane is I have not seen
any plans for a dual band version and I would also like to get on 440.
By the way, I have my license.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:20:29 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:56:08 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:

I just went to the antenna news group to read their 'latest' and see that
you already posted questions there. I feel like I just stepped in a
"pile"when I see that you ask for antenna advice in RCM *after* discussing
it on the ANTENNA group. It becomes obvious to me that you are interested
in discussing rather than actually building an antenna.
There are world class antenna experts available to answer *any* antenna
questions in the Antenna News group. Take their advice.

A side note to the viewers...Jerry has forgotten more about antenna
design than most of us will ever know. And the military loves his
work...they keep sticking them up.

It always warms the heart to see a troll's attempt get short-circuited.

Ok, I'm sure that the right thing to do is get it right the first time.
Have fun on your quest! I also enjoy the book/reading side of several
hobbies. For me, that's a large part of my hobby life. The
book/learning thing is a whole different track than my comments about
getting something working. I'd be tempted to just buy a dual band
vertical at one of the ham sites, or swap meets around whereever you
are, and mount that on the tower.

I don't know of any DIY's that don't need a bit of tweeking/tuning to
get working, or at least not with me putting them together.

If it's about $$, the ground plane bothers you, and you only want to go
up the tower once, I'm out of suggestions, perhaps TV?
but I still stand by my statement of having fun!

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "indexing jig" I wonder if I could
make a discone that would be an all bander. I have plans for a uhf
copper discone. I wonder if I could modify it to cover vhf too. I
wonder if I could use aluminum elements instead of all copper flashing?
WOuld there be a difference in performance?

On 14 Jan 2005 09:10:55 -0800, wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "indexing jig"

If you google for "indexing jig" you will be enlightened. Don't forget
the quote marks.