I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the gears show little
wear, I do wonder about the 3/4 hp motor though just seems under
powered. Does anyone use one of these and is it a good lathe worth
fixing up and gettting tooling for(only tooling is a 3-jaw chuck). I
don't have much invested in this lathe but just hate to see something
this good go the the scrap metal pile. Any comments would be
appreciated. Thanks Mac

"mac" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the
---snip---

First thing... LeBlond was among the best of the best. Second thing: HP
labels have changed since then. I'm not sure, but I believe HP in the days
of your B9860 were calculated at 1,700 rpm and today's electric motors
calculated at 3,600? so it may be that your 3/4 HP is equivalent to today's
inflated 2HP or more.

Older lathes have hand-scraped bearing surface ways and many of us old
timers think the hand-scraped ways are better than even the laser calibrated
ground ways of today's machinery.

I'm probably wrong on both these counts... but they may be worth following
up on. LeBlond is one hell of a good lathe!

Wayne

On 30 Dec 2004 08:34:52 -0800, "mac" wrote:

I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the gears show little
wear, I do wonder about the 3/4 hp motor though just seems under
powered. Does anyone use one of these and is it a good lathe worth
fixing up and gettting tooling for(only tooling is a 3-jaw chuck). I
don't have much invested in this lathe but just hate to see something
this good go the the scrap metal pile. Any comments would be
appreciated. Thanks Mac

DUMPSTER????? LeBlond REGAL!!!!!!!!!! How dare you put the two terms
in the same paragraph, you fiend!

Seriously good lathe. Way good lathe. Farking excellent lathe. Good
stuff Maynard. Assuming as you indicated that its in good shape, its
a marvelous lathe. Tooling as far as it goes, depending on how good
your scrounging skills are, is easy as most types of tooling that will
fit any 13" lathe, will fit it. There are a lot of 13" Regals around
and things like spindle nose 5C adapters are available, though if you
buy them new, wont be cheap.

The 3/4hp motor will so some serious work, if you dont try for blue
chips, but if you find its underpowered, you may easily enough install
a 1.5 or even a 3hp.

You did well to find this machine and if taken care of, will last the
life span of your grandchildren. Please post some pictures.

I should mention as a further encouragement, that I, with all my toys,
would be proud to have a 13" Regal in my shop. So take it as an
approval on your score G

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

"mac" wrote in message
roups.com...


I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the


---snip---

First thing... LeBlond was among the best of the best. Second thing: HP
labels have changed since then. I'm not sure, but I believe HP in the days
of your B9860 were calculated at 1,700 rpm and today's electric motors
calculated at 3,600? so it may be that your 3/4 HP is equivalent to today's
inflated 2HP or more.


Horsepower has ALWAYS been calculated at the motor's true running RPM.
This gets messy with multi-speed and variable-speed motors, but for constant
speed motors, it has always been done the same way. (Ignore the
craziness with
recent air compressors and shop vacs. The legal system is finally
restoring truth
there, too.) But, yes, 3/4 Hp sounds a bit weak on a really
heavily-built machine.
I have a 15" Sheldon, and it has a 5 HP motor!

Older lathes have hand-scraped bearing surface ways and many of us old
timers think the hand-scraped ways are better than even the laser calibrated
ground ways of today's machinery.


No. Hand scraping can definitely produce a very flat and striaght
bedway for
a machine tool. Often better than any surface grinder can produce.
But, a properly
calibrated and trued precision bedway with flame-sprayed hard surfacing
will last
a LOT longer. Most machines with hardened beds are NOT precision trued
after
manufacture, though, so in a sense you are quite right. It's not a
matter of what is
POSSIBLE, but what is actually done in industry practice. Hand scraping
or other
hand truing techniques are just too time consuming to be done on most
machine tools.



Jon

I thought it went by how many watts the motor is. 1hp was 746 watts...

Erik Litchy wrote:

I thought it went by how many watts the motor is. 1hp was 746 watts...

Motor power output is not a fixed relationship to motor power in. a 3/4
HP motor is one that generates an honest 0.75 horsepower (560W) at the
shaft -- this will take at least 560W on the input, it _will_ take more
(10% more would indicate a darn good motor) and could take anything at
all above that (e.g. a 100HP motor, running at rated speed and
delivering only 3/4 HP may take 15kW just to keep turning).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Tim Wescott wrote:


I suspect that a hand-scraped way done with care is _way_ better than
a laser calibrated ground way done by someone who doesn't give a
****. I also suspect, however, that a good, careful guy with a
laser-guided grinding setup that's kept in good trim can at least turn
out stuff that's as good as hand-scraped and probably faster.

The hottest-**** setup would probably be a laser interferometer plus a
really bright, committed guy with a scraper, though.

That doesn't work on hardened beds, though! (Don't ask how I know. OK,
I'll tell you.
I did the closest I could think of to hand scraping a hardened Sheldon
bed. I used
a "test carriage" made to have the same shape as the Sheldon carriage on
the bottom,
just shorter along the bed (about 6"). I used a hand scraped
straightedge with marking
medium (spotting dye) and a Taylor Hobson Talyvel electronic level.
With the test
carriage and the straightedge, I identified local high spots, and the
Talyvel was used
to keep an eye on long-span variations along the bed. I used an air die
grinder and
Cratex rubberized and cloth-bonded polishing wheels to remove material
where needed.
I finally finished the surfaces with bench sharpening stones that had
been rubbed together
to obtain a nearly flat stone. These stones, when rubbed over the bed
with a heavy
application of light oil, would remove a tiny amount of metal from even
more localized
high spots, and leave a beautifully polished surface. But, it was
backbreaking work
(although more fun than working out on a Nautilus machine.)

Anyway, I finally got the 6 foot bed down to +/- .0005" or so over the
entire length.
I could have kept working, but I thought that was as good as I'd ever
need it. The tricky
part is to get the front/back motion of the carriage as it travels along
the bed down to
a minimal amount.

Jon

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

"mac" wrote in message
oups.com...

I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the

---snip---

First thing... LeBlond was among the best of the best. Second thing: HP
labels have changed since then. I'm not sure, but I believe HP in the days
of your B9860 were calculated at 1,700 rpm and today's electric motors
calculated at 3,600? so it may be that your 3/4 HP is equivalent to today's
inflated 2HP or more.

It's not the speed that affects the horsepower. An induction motor can
be built to operate just shy of the line rate (60Hz = 3600 cycles per
second), or just shy of 1/2 the line rate, or just shy of 1/3 the line
rate, etc. So a two-pole two-phase induction motor will spin around
3500 RPM, a four-pole two-phase will spin around 1750 or 1700, etc.

Back in the day, however, motors tended to be rated _very_
conservatively, because everything was done with a slide rule and paper.
To make sure they were telling the truth they way over designed
things. This is why an older 3/4HP is "better" than a newer one.

And today's "2HP" for an itty bitty motor is just a lie -- see all of
the threads about compressors.

Older lathes have hand-scraped bearing surface ways and many of us old
timers think the hand-scraped ways are better than even the laser calibrated
ground ways of today's machinery.

I suspect that a hand-scraped way done with care is _way_ better than a
laser calibrated ground way done by someone who doesn't give a ****. I
also suspect, however, that a good, careful guy with a laser-guided
grinding setup that's kept in good trim can at least turn out stuff
that's as good as hand-scraped and probably faster.

The hottest-**** setup would probably be a laser interferometer plus a
really bright, committed guy with a scraper, though.

I'm probably wrong on both these counts... but they may be worth following
up on. LeBlond is one hell of a good lathe!

Wayne




--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Wayne Lundberg wrote:

"mac" wrote in message
oups.com...

I just became the owner of a 13" LeBlond regal lathe the the number on
the ways is B 9860. The lathe seems to be in good shape, came out of a
trade school, everthing seems to be tight and the

---snip---

First thing... LeBlond was among the best of the best. Second thing: HP
labels have changed since then. I'm not sure, but I believe HP in the
days
of your B9860 were calculated at 1,700 rpm and today's electric motors
calculated at 3,600? so it may be that your 3/4 HP is equivalent to
today's
inflated 2HP or more.

It's not the speed that affects the horsepower. An induction motor can
be built to operate just shy of the line rate (60Hz = 3600 cycles per
second), or just shy of 1/2 the line rate, or just shy of 1/3 the line
rate, etc. So a two-pole two-phase induction motor will spin around
3500 RPM, a four-pole two-phase will spin around 1750 or 1700, etc.

Back in the day, however, motors tended to be rated _very_
conservatively, because everything was done with a slide rule and paper.
To make sure they were telling the truth they way over designed
things. This is why an older 3/4HP is "better" than a newer one.

I think it's harder to tell on a lathe or a drill press when to change the
motor than in an application with a fixed load, though. I have a 58 year old
single phase 3/4 HP motor on my SB 10L and I think it slows down and stalls
too easily. If it was running a compressor I'd put an amprobe on it and see
what it was trying to pull at full load. However I don't have any simple way
of putting a known 3/4 HP load on it. Most motors will continue to spin at a
lower load even after their prime, for example, if you lower a compressor or
pump setpoint a marginal motor will keep going for a while.

Tim Wescott wrote:
[ snip ]

... An induction motor can
be built to operate just shy of the line rate (60Hz = 3600 cycles per
second), ...

I'd believe 3600 cycles per *minute* .... :-)

-jc-

John Chase wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

[ snip ]

... An induction motor can be built to operate just shy of the line
rate (60Hz = 3600 cycles per second), ...


I'd believe 3600 cycles per *minute* .... :-)

-jc-

Sigh. When I was young I wanted to be a jet jockey. Now that I'm wise
I realize that I often screw things up the first time around. I do well
with what I do now because I can always double-check my work.

And yes, 60 cycles per second doesn't equal 3600 cycles per second, but
it does equal 3600 cycles per minute.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I have an earlier 13" LeBlond Regal with a 3/4 HP motor and find it
sufficient for my hobby requirements. Perhaps if you were using carbide
tooling at high speed and high feed rates it would be insufficient. Top
speed on this older model is only 500 RPM. Mine dates from 1943 and I
purchased it at the auction at Grumman Aircraft. - Joe

Thanks for all the responses. I am going to post a picture when I can
get use of a digital camera. A friend has one and he said I could use
it. So, we will see. Looks like its going to cost about half what the
lathe cost to get it going, but still I think it will be worth while. I
did find a 2hp 3 phase motor, for free, and ordered some parts from
Mcmaster to build a rotary phase convertor. Ordered a rocker type tool
post and found some tool holders in a scrap bin. So if I can figure out
this schematic for this rpc I may get it runnig tomorrow. Again, thanks
for all your responses. Mac

I do wonder about the 3/4 hp motor though just seems under
powered

Sorry for the slow response.
Kind of a newbie, just found the group.
I wonder if this is a single phase motor? The machine was almost certainly 3
phase when built and if someone put in a single phase motor that may have been
all that was handy or perhaps (some installations are VERY tight) because of
the necessarily larger frame size (on a single phase motor of the same hp),
that's all that could be easily stuffed in place?

dennis in nca

Dgrup wrote:
I do wonder about the 3/4 hp motor though just seems under
powered

Sorry for the slow response.
Kind of a newbie, just found the group.
I wonder if this is a single phase motor? The machine was almost
certainly 3
phase when built and if someone put in a single phase motor that may
have been
all that was handy or perhaps (some installations are VERY tight)
because of
the necessarily larger frame size (on a single phase motor of the
same hp),
that's all that could be easily stuffed in place?

dennis in nca

I think it came with the 3/4 or if it has been replaced it was a long
time ago. The motor has the same paint as the rest of the lathe and it
is a 3 phase motor. I have got the RPC going and have used the lathe a
little. Since it only has a 500 RPM top spindle speed I think the 3/4
might be enough for what I plan to use it for. Thanks, Joe