Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

Snyper1982 wrote:
Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i
apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont
know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using
a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was
looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as
id
like to get into metal working.

If you have the room, look at buying a larger, older lathe for a
fraction of the cost. It will make little parts fine, and also bigger
parts, which you will inevitably get into as you gain experience.
The imported lathes are getting better in quality but still don't
measure up to older American or European machines.
With all the conversion to electronic control, there are mountains of
fine old iron out there to be had for a song.
Keep in mind that the accessories; chucks, toolholders, faceplates,
bits, etc. can cost more than the lathe itself. Look for one that is
well equipped and save kilobucks.
Good luck and enjoy.
Bugs

"Snyper1982" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.


Will this be for personal hobby work? How big (diameter) parts will you need
to make? Tell what you want to accomplish and you'll get lots of ideas here.
Randy

As for books some of the old Southbend reprints are great. Check out "How to
run a lathe" and "Machine shop projects" . Those and many more you can get
at http://www.lindsaybks.com/ Lindsay books reprints a lot of cool old
books.

As far as a lathe. If your looking at a Jet look at Grizzly and Harbor
Freight. Jet lathes are the highest of the bunch and all 3 have the same
lathe just with different stickers and paint color. The $1000 lathe at jet
is the Grizzly 4000 which can be had for about $850 delivered and the HF
version is on sale for $599 until the 26th.

Old American iron can be had for a good deal depending on what area of the
country you live in. If you're in the NE there are tons of old iron
available. In the old industrial NE there were thousands of machine shops
years ago and many workers had their own equipment at home too. If you're in
the Texas area like me there are slim pickings so I went with a HF unit.I
got tired of finding nothing in all the papers and all the ebay stuff was
either to high or it would cost more to ship than it was worth.

Best advice is to check out yahoo groups for whatever lathes you are looking
at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/ This group covers all the chinese
lathes like HF, Jet, Grizzly etc
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/ This one covers all the old
Atlas/ Craftsman lathes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/ Southbend group

There are groups for Sheldon, Logan and probably many more. You can read
till yer eyeballs pop out.
Byron...

"Snyper1982" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

On 24 Dec 2004 22:21:34 -0800, "Snyper1982"
wrote:


What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

First, http://www.lindsaybks.com

He has reprints of many of the older lathe manuals, any of them will
give a ton of information. Trade school texts from the second hand
stores will also have a lot that is of use.

Jet lathes, still imported and not better than any other import, just
more expensive. Enco, Harbor Freight, almost any of the importers
sell what is basically the same machine. You mention the $1000,
tells me you're looking at the 9 X 20. These, and the smaller 7 X xx
machines are light duty machines. They do work, and if you have
patience, will work well. However, that's not the first item to look
at.

To make them work well, you have to do some work on them. These, all
of the imports, are kits for all practical purposes. Disassembly and
cleaning, then stoning the burrs off and doing the adjustments when
you put it back together are a must. I don't see this as a problem,
you didn't pay for American iron, and you didn't get it. A couple of
hours work will pay off.

The 9 X 20 lathes do not have a reverse on the lead screw, as they
come, they will not cut left hand threads. For most people, this
isn't a problem. The 7 X xx will, But they probably require a higher
level of skill to thread on. Until you're up to at least 12 inch
swing, the low speeds are still too fast to be comfortable threading.
It can be done, but it isn't comfortable.

Import vs old American iron, this can work both ways, especially with
a beginner. You WILL crash the machine sooner or later, maybe doing
damage that requires repair parts. With a lot of machines, this
leaves the great American rip, ebay, as the parts source. There are
also many cases where even ebay will fall flat, depending on the
machine and it's age. This is where one of the benefits of the
imports come in, they have parts available cheaply enough that when
you crash it, you aren't destroying something that can't be replaced.

Old American iron that's nice and resplendent in it's new paint
doesn't mean anything, it could have been used on production for the
last thirty years before it was cleaned and painted, worn out to the
point of being useless. Unless you know what to look for, you won't
know. On the other hand, it's possible, although I haven't had it
happen yet, to get an import that simply is so bad it can't be made to
work well. The only way anyone finds out is when they try to use it.
The better chance is that it will need to be cleaned, deburred and
adjusted, then will work ok.

Smaller machines, check out Taig and Sherline, both are excellent if
somewhat limited machines, but can be pricey to have a running
machine. Just be aware that they are tiny, and made for small, very
precise work, not hogging 1 inch stock down to 1/4 inch. They can do
it, but it's the death of 1000 cuts. Base price on a new Taig is less
than $150, but for that, by the time you triple it, you have a running
machine. It's still probably the most bang for the buck if you can
get along with a small machine.

On 24 Dec 2004 22:21:34 -0800, "Snyper1982"
wrote:

Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

Knowing your location would help.

I have seen at least one import that was about useless brand new: a
9" from Enco. Fortunately, we only bought it for making simple stuff
like coil bobbins and spacers, and that was definitely all it was
good for. We junked it when we found a surplus South Bend for the
cost of moving it to our lab.

If you can find a knowledgeable person to help you look, I think
you'd be better served by an old South Bend, Logan or Sheldon as a
first lathe but you need someone to help determine if it's in decent
shape. A good used machinery dealer may be able to help. They
profit by buying well, selling the good stuff at a reasonable profit
and parting out the dogs. You pay some for their experience and time
spent finding and gathering stuff to sell. It could be money
well spent for a beginner. You should be able to get a very nice
used lathe from a reputable dealer for less than the cost of a new
import.

With an import or a USA-made-used machine of unknown condition, you'll
never know if your frustrations are due to your own inexperience or
to inadequacies/faults in the machine itself.

It strikes me that you'll get the most bang for your buck if you can get
a little experience using a machine. Hunt around and see if a local
community college or even a friend of a friend is available to you. Just
a couple hours of work might make you much more clear on what is important.

Used quality machines can be a good deal (my preference), depending on
where you are. The ones at used machinery dealers can often be pretty
beat however.

Read a lot. Lindsay Books (mentioned in another post) is a great source
of inexpensive books on such.

Steve

Snyper1982 wrote:

Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

Snyper
It all depends on what your trying to do. Small parts to a Cat mechanic are
much bigger that small parts to a watch maker. If your looking at a Jet
I'm going to assume that you are looking in the 9" by 24" to 11" by 36"
machine. Outside of the imports there are the older Logan, Sheldon and
South Bend lathes. Most parts for these lathes are available some used and
some new. Ya pays your money and takes your choice.

Where in the world are you? There are model engineering groups around that
you could hook up with.

Be aware that your only looking for your FIRST lathe. It will be a training
tool and allow you to figure out what you really need to accomplish what you
want. Are you a capable mechanic who can deal with keeping an older machine
tuned up and running. Do you keep you car repaired and going , or just drop
it off at the dealer to be fixed. I don't ask that to be critical, just be
honest with yourself about the abilities you have and what you are willing
to do. Do you expect the lathe you get to just be a tool, taking no more
care than a Crescent wrench, or a tool like your computer that takes a fair
amount of upkeep and attention. A lathe is more like a computer, It takes
care and attention to keep functioning. An older computer takes a bit more
fiddling to keep going. The same with and older lathe. A cheap import, or
an old lathe are going to require some loving attention to make it yours. A
high quality new machine will run "out of the box" but still requires
maintenance and up keep.
lg
no neat sig line

"Snyper1982" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as id
like to get into metal working.

I have a 1967 Clausing 5914 lathe that is the same size as my brother's
new Jet lathe.
I also have a small Grizzly lathe.
I have used all three enough to know the differences.
1) Jet, great
2) old American, great if not worn out
3) Grizzly, unacceptable.

My theory is that parts are made all over China, and the ones that pass
inspection go into Jet lathes and bad parts are graded as Grizzlies.

Anyway, a mint condition Hardinge lathe is what you want, but they are
not easy to find cheap.
If you are used lathe shopping, you will need to read up on what to look
for.
Otherwise, get a Jet and you will be happy.
Clark

--
Be careful what you pray for, it can happen.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:22:40 GMT, Clark Magnuson
wrote:


My theory is that parts are made all over China, and the ones that pass
inspection go into Jet lathes and bad parts are graded as Grizzlies.

My theory is that you pulled the grizzly out of the box and expected
it to be a Hardinge. Jet is no better than Harbor Freight, just more
expensive.

But then, from past postings, I get the opinion that you want to pull
the machine out of the box and have it working like a new Hardinge,
just don't want to pay the Hardinge price, but expect the same
machine.

Welcome to the real world, Clark. Some can, some can't. You fall in
the latter group.

"Bugs" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip----
If you have the room, look at buying a larger, older lathe for a
fraction of the cost. It will make little parts fine, and also bigger
parts, which you will inevitably get into as you gain experience.

Bad advice if he intends to do small work. Yes, large machines can do small
work, but have you tried drilling a #60 hole in steel @ 500 RPM? Have you
turned a ¼" shaft on a 20" lathe? Need I say more?

Try to size your machine to the work you expect to do. Regardless of the
size you buy, it will never be able to handle all the projects that come
along. Best advice is to buy the machine that fits best the things you
intend to do so they run well.

Harold

"Greybeard" wrote in message
...
snip--

Nice post, Greybeard!

Harold

For a concise intro to bench and machine metalwork, there's a zipped
file he
http://tinyurl.com/5x8kx

Jordan

Snyper1982 wrote:
some good reading material is on using a
lathe.

"larry g" wrote in Be aware that your only
looking for your FIRST lathe. It will be a training
tool and allow you to figure out what you really need to accomplish what
you want. Are you a capable mechanic who can deal with keeping an older
machine tuned up and running. Do you keep you car repaired and going , or
just drop it off at the dealer to be fixed. I don't ask that to be
critical, just be honest with yourself about the abilities you have and
what you are willing to do.

I have discovered that I enjoy rebuilding old lathes as much as I like
making chips.
My 9" logan has been very useful in rebuilding an AA and an Atlas so far.

If I were starting from scratch, and had not run across the Logan at a
bargain price, I think I'd buy a 7X for a first lathe. 95% of what I have
used my Logan for could have been done on a 7x10, they are almost portable,
and parts & accessories are dirt cheap. Besides, there are so many
well-documented mods and fixes on the net that you could entertain yourself
for months just doing those.
--
Rex Burkheimer
WM Automotive Warehouse
Fort Worth TX

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I am located in central Ca, near
Stockton. When I know nothing about metal working, so it seems like a
small project to me. Mostly it will be taking something like 3" dia.
aluminum and... i don't kno any of the terms used in this, and its so
frustrating, but cutting some of the metal off the lenght of it, so it
has a 3" dia. base, and like 3/4" point coming off it. Man I hate being
new to something, but I am really glad you people are so helpful. I
really appreciate it.

As for upkeep, yes I am fully confident I can keep my lathe well taken
care of. I try to do all my repairs on my car myself. only time I ever
take it to a shop is when i need some specialty tool that would cost
far to much to be a viable option for me to buy, something like a tire
machine, stuff like that. Other than that, I am not afraid to rip it
apart and fix it myself.

But 3" dia. stock is a must, possibly 4".

Shoot, just let me link you guys to some of the stuff I will be
building.
http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/pyrot...ckettools.html

So now that you have a good idea, you can help me out better, i figure
the Jet should suffice for all that, and i really have no clue where to
look for use machinerey. Thanks guys, you are much more helpful than
some of the other places I visit.

I also found this site http://www.finelinehair.com/home/index.htm

i was wondering what the these ratings mean:

Jet change gears: 28t, 30t, 36t, 42t, 45t, 60t & 80t.

Is that how many teeth are on each gear? Thanks again, you guys are
awesome.

Any answers?

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I am located in central Ca, near
Stockton. When I know nothing about metal working, so it seems like a
small project to me. Mostly it will be taking something like 3" dia.
aluminum and... i don't kno any of the terms used in this, and its so
frustrating, but cutting some of the metal off the lenght of it, so it
has a 3" dia. base, and like 3/4" point coming off it. Man I hate being
new to something, but I am really glad you people are so helpful. I
really appreciate it.


As for upkeep, yes I am fully confident I can keep my lathe well taken
care of. I try to do all my repairs on my car myself. only time I ever
take it to a shop is when i need some specialty tool that would cost
far to much to be a viable option for me to buy, something like a tire
machine, stuff like that. Other than that, I am not afraid to rip it
apart and fix it myself.


But 3" dia. stock is a must, possibly 4".


Shoot, just let me link you guys to some of the stuff I will be
building.
http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/pyrot...ckettools.html


So now that you have a good idea, you can help me out better, i figure
the Jet should suffice for all that, and i really have no clue where to
look for use machinerey. Thanks guys, you are much more helpful than
some of the other places I visit.


Randy Replogle wrote:
"Snyper1982" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I am sure you guys get asked these questions a lot, so i
apologize
in advance. I am totaly and completely new to metal working. I am
mostly curious about making little parts with a lathe. I just dont
know
what a good lathe is, and what some good reading material is on
using a
lathe.

What are some good brands of lathe? are Jets good, cause i was
looking
around a bit and i saw a jet that was about $1,000 brand new. Well
thanks for reading, hope to get some good answers from you guys, as
id
like to get into metal working.


Will this be for personal hobby work? How big (diameter) parts will
you need
to make? Tell what you want to accomplish and you'll get lots of
ideas here.
Randy

On 30 Dec 2004 14:55:58 -0800, "Snyper1982"
wrote:


Shoot, just let me link you guys to some of the stuff I will be
building.
http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/pyrot...ckettools.html


Ramming black powder?????????????? 8000 PSI????????

Ok...

NIMBY.

Gunner

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stewart Mill

It is for making rockets. Not making bombs or anything else. It is not
NORMAL grade BP, if you use regular BP, it will burn right through your
rocket casing. LOL. I know it sounds crazy, but I love rockets and
such. The most dangerous one on there is the whitsle rocket(which i
dont plan on making) because it uses a formula which is much more
sensitive to friction. But anywho. Now that you guys have an idea, what
kind of lathe do you think i would need to make things such as that? I
will be working with 3" aluminum.

In article .com,
Snyper1982 wrote:
I also found this site http://www.finelinehair.com/home/index.htm

i was wondering what the these ratings mean:

Jet change gears: 28t, 30t, 36t, 42t, 45t, 60t & 80t.

Is that how many teeth are on each gear?

Yes. What threads that cut will be determined by varous other
featues in the threading gear train.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Most any lathe will do what you need, depending on the level of precision
and the length of the work. The Asian minilathes start at 7" (diameter of
work) X 10" (effective max length of work, "between centers"). If your
stuff is well within this range it's not a bad start for $400 + shipping.
Look at the Cummins, which looks like the best deal currently.
If you want to go a step bigger, look for a 9" Logan, Wards, or
Southbend. These start at about 17" work length and go to about 30".
The most common small lathes are in the 10" range. There are a large
variety out there. Next round is 11", 12". All these start in the 24" work
length and go to about 36" length.
If you need to thread often, look for one with a quick-change gearbox.
I have a Logan 9x17 w/QC that would be perfect for what you want. If you
could find one of those at a good price you will be in good shape.
Avoid the 9x20 Asian lathes, as these have some unique issues. However,
if you find one at a "giveaway" price, and don't mind doing some tuning, go
for it. Plenty of online help for almost anything you run across.
Most any of the above can be found under $1000 in good shape. If you want
"Like new", then double that. Remember that tooling for any of them will
easily equal the value of the machine, so consider that when you shop. Take
a look at ebay listings for examples of what comes with a typical lathe.
Also a good approximation of machine values.
Be sure to read the articles on Merimac Machinery's page, titled
(approximately) "Tips on Buying a USed Lathe" and "In Praise of Klunkers".

Looks like a fun hobby. Be careful, or you may find out the machining
overtakes your other hobby in terms of interest. I'm there now, with 3 nice
race cars sitting idle (and needing prep) while I tinker with 50-year-old
machine tools

Have fun.

Rex B
Fort Worth

"Snyper1982" wrote in message
ups.com...
It is for making rockets. Not making bombs or anything else. It is not
NORMAL grade BP, if you use regular BP, it will burn right through your
rocket casing. LOL. I know it sounds crazy, but I love rockets and
such. The most dangerous one on there is the whitsle rocket(which i
dont plan on making) because it uses a formula which is much more
sensitive to friction. But anywho. Now that you guys have an idea, what
kind of lathe do you think i would need to make things such as that? I
will be working with 3" aluminum.

In article ,
Rex B wrote:
Most any lathe will do what you need, depending on the level of precision
and the length of the work. The Asian minilathes start at 7" (diameter of
work) X 10" (effective max length of work, "between centers"). If your
stuff is well within this range it's not a bad start for $400 + shipping.

One consideration is that the swing ratings are for fairly short
workpieces. There is a separate rating for what it can handle over the
cross slide, and you may need to use that rating depending on what
you are doing. Consider that you don't want more than four times the
diameter extending out of the chuck without a live center supporting the
free end, and a lot less when you have something so large in diameter
that it can't be passed through the hole in the chuck so the whole
length of the jaws can be used on it. Use reversed jaws to hold a
larger diameter piece, and you really want to keep it short if
unsupported. On my 12x24" Clausing, turning 6" diameter steel in
reversed chuck jaws can get exciting with only 6" length free.

For the Harbor Freight version of the 7x10 import lathe, the
following are part of the specs;

# Distance between centers: 10''
# Swing over bed 7"
# Swing over saddle: 3.9"
# Spindle bo 3/4"

The "Swing over saddle" is what I was referring to as "swing over
cross-slide". So -- with that one, you could not handle long workpieces
the full 4" diameter which you have suggested in some of your earlier
articles, though the 3" should be doable.

And you will be spending a lot of time doing this, much more
than using a heavier machine. I could consider a 9" to be the minimum,
and a 12" to be a quite nice choice.

[ ... ]

If you need to thread often, look for one with a quick-change gearbox.

Amen! Having a quick-change gearbox makes it more likely that
you will also take the time to select a feed and speed which is
appropriate to your workpiece material and size. Otherwise, the
temptation to just leave the gears set up as they were can be very
strong, especially when the gears have gotten coated with well-used
lube, and you are cutting just before a meal or sometime else when you
want to clean up quickly.

[ ... ]

Most any of the above can be found under $1000 in good shape. If you want
"Like new", then double that. Remember that tooling for any of them will
easily equal the value of the machine, so consider that when you shop. Take
a look at ebay listings for examples of what comes with a typical lathe.
Also a good approximation of machine values.

Look at what prices they *close* at. And note what happens when
someone starts at too high a price. It is likely to not sell at all.

Be sure to read the articles on Merimac Machinery's page, titled
(approximately) "Tips on Buying a USed Lathe" and "In Praise of Klunkers".

Does he still have the page up? I understand that he stepped
out of the machine selling as a full-time job, and went to sea so he
could earn a serious living.

Looks like a fun hobby. Be careful, or you may find out the machining
overtakes your other hobby in terms of interest.

Amen!

Good Luck (and be careful, considering what you will be doing).
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---