On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:

Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...
http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.
--
Cliff

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:38:56 -0500, Cliff wrote:

When can the other 49% get certified?

Wayne

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:

Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...
http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE !!!

--

SVL

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE !!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another one
soon, hmmmm???

--

SVL

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

Please be specific. Opinions do not count.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

Gunner, it is very hard to understand your position on this. You have
consistantly claimed that the Constitution should be strictly interpreted
and the government should stay out of citizens lives but when it comes to
laws that clearly ignore the constitution and intrudes on our lives far more
than anything previous, you are all for it.

The really odd thing is, when they start searching the internet and
profiling the potential "fringe" people to lock up, you will be among the
first to go. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:E%God.3257$Nw.920@lakeread08...
when they start searching the internet and
profiling the potential "fringe" people to lock up, you will be among the
first to go. :-)


Good Riddance.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:34:32 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Gunner, it is very hard to understand your position on this. You have
consistantly claimed that the Constitution should be strictly interpreted
and the government should stay out of citizens lives but when it comes to
laws that clearly ignore the constitution and intrudes on our lives far more
than anything previous, you are all for it.+

"The Constitution is not a Suicide Pact"
Justice Arthur Goldberg

When the Patriot Act is ruled unconstitutional, Ill be on the
barracades passing you ammuntion, if its not voided immediately.


The really odd thing is, when they start searching the internet and
profiling the potential "fringe" people to lock up, you will be among the
first to go. :-)

It really depends on what they consider the Fringe group, now doesnt
it? If its conservatives doing the defining...you are likely to be
going up the chimney. If its Leftists..then indeed..it will be me.

But all humor aside...Ive studied the PA, and while some of the
measures COULD be misused, I , so far, dont see any evidence that they
have been. Im rather happy to see that several of those portions have
already been ruled against by courts. It means the People are paying
attention and the system is working to protect us, one and all.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:02:37 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:E%God.3257$Nw.920@lakeread08...
when they start searching the internet and
profiling the potential "fringe" people to lock up, you will be among the
first to go. :-)


Good Riddance.

Get any more tats since Kerry lost, Kathy? Perhaps some tear drops
down the side of your face would be a nice touch....

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l102301g.html

The biggest deal is with the wiretapping, check it out :

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/...actlibrary.htm

--

SVL

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.

http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l102301g.html

The biggest deal is with the wiretapping, check it out :

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/...actlibrary.htm

All the way through this, I see repeated mention of the term "court
order" and "warrant"

It appears that the things that could be looked at, after a valid
court order, issued by a judge, was expanded. Period. Prior to the PA,
such was also true, a judge could issue a court order for a Pen
Trace/wiretap.

So far, your evidence shows no sign of removing any rights. If you
think they do, please point out the significant sections.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went
MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though
none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their
heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.


It was lousy police work got him involved in the whole mess in the first
place.


http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l102301g.html

The biggest deal is with the wiretapping, check it out :

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/...actlibrary.htm

All the way through this, I see repeated mention of the term "court
order" and "warrant"

It appears that the things that could be looked at, after a valid
court order, issued by a judge, was expanded. Period. Prior to the PA,
such was also true, a judge could issue a court order for a Pen
Trace/wiretap.

So far, your evidence shows no sign of removing any rights. If you
think they do, please point out the significant sections.


The reccuring theme I'm seeing is a very significant lack of power on the
part of the judge to even deny the issuance of any warrant, with the
standards currently allowing exclusion of even the requirement of giving
himbasic information as to why, where and even how the information is to be
gathered--let alone the question of *why*.....

And since the option exists, the utmost secrecy is rather likely to *always*
be maintained......

What the hell, if one judge denies signing the warrant request, then just go
get a different judge--nobody will know anyways........

--

SVL

All I want to know, is .......... when do I get my certificate?

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:39:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE !!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.

Even mentioning any such facts would be treason, right?
Did you again have a reading comprehension issue? Oops ..
what you read may matter too .... better safe than vanished,
right?

Any idea how many people just vanish anyway? What
would a few thousand++ more be anyway?
--
Cliff

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:30:49 -0700, Getoverit wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

Reading comprehension issues again?
Must be either a fundie or a winger.
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:39:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.

Even mentioning any such facts would be treason, right?
Did you again have a reading comprehension issue? Oops ..
what you read may matter too .... better safe than vanished,
right?

Any idea how many people just vanish anyway? What
would a few thousand++ more be anyway?

John S. should know the figures......though in many cases the victims dont
themselves even realize they've been abducted........

How can any of us be sure all that what we see around us is for real ???

--

SVL

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:

It appears that the things that could be looked at, after a valid
court order, issued by a judge, was expanded. Period. Prior to the PA,
such was also true, a judge could issue a court order for a Pen
Trace/wiretap.

So far, your evidence shows no sign of removing any rights. If you
think they do, please point out the significant sections.


The reccuring theme I'm seeing is a very significant lack of power on the
part of the judge to even deny the issuance of any warrant, with the
standards currently allowing exclusion of even the requirement of giving
himbasic information as to why, where and even how the information is to be
gathered--let alone the question of *why*.....

And since the option exists, the utmost secrecy is rather likely to *always*
be maintained......

What the hell, if one judge denies signing the warrant request, then just go
get a different judge--nobody will know anyways........


So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?

Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?

GUnner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went
MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though
none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their
heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.


It was lousy police work got him involved in the whole mess in the first
place.

The fact he was considered a suspect? No. The fact that they ran head
long into charging him before they got their ducks in a row? Yes
indeedy.


http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l102301g.html

The biggest deal is with the wiretapping, check it out :

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/...actlibrary.htm

All the way through this, I see repeated mention of the term "court
order" and "warrant"

It appears that the things that could be looked at, after a valid
court order, issued by a judge, was expanded. Period. Prior to the PA,
such was also true, a judge could issue a court order for a Pen
Trace/wiretap.

So far, your evidence shows no sign of removing any rights. If you
think they do, please point out the significant sections.


The reccuring theme I'm seeing is a very significant lack of power on the
part of the judge to even deny the issuance of any warrant, with the
standards currently allowing exclusion of even the requirement of giving
himbasic information as to why, where and even how the information is to be
gathered--let alone the question of *why*.....

And since the option exists, the utmost secrecy is rather likely to *always*
be maintained......

What the hell, if one judge denies signing the warrant request, then just go
get a different judge--nobody will know anyways........



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:

It appears that the things that could be looked at, after a valid
court order, issued by a judge, was expanded. Period. Prior to the PA,
such was also true, a judge could issue a court order for a Pen
Trace/wiretap.

So far, your evidence shows no sign of removing any rights. If you
think they do, please point out the significant sections.


The reccuring theme I'm seeing is a very significant lack of power on the
part of the judge to even deny the issuance of any warrant, with the
standards currently allowing exclusion of even the requirement of giving
himbasic information as to why, where and even how the information is to
be
gathered--let alone the question of *why*.....

And since the option exists, the utmost secrecy is rather likely to
*always*
be maintained......

What the hell, if one judge denies signing the warrant request, then just
go
get a different judge--nobody will know anyways........


So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?


Im saying that by this law there are apparently no justifiable grounds upon
which the judge *can* say no........but even if he did.........


Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?


No, the man just finds himself a different judge then, one thats lacking a
spine..........

Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......

--

SVL

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:15:33 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Gummer's trying to support "Patriot Act" I, II, probably praying
for III ... not that he's read them, thought or comprehended anything
yet ....... it would probably kill him ....

So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?

Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?

Got any names of these judges? Did YOU vote for them?
It's all done in secret, right?
Got any proof any papers were even actually signed?

"Patriot" II does not even seem to require any judges, no
matter how secret .....

Even talking about it is a crime, right?
--
Cliff

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:37:59 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?


Im saying that by this law there are apparently no justifiable grounds upon
which the judge *can* say no........but even if he did.........
Even if he did, then what?


Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?


No, the man just finds himself a different judge then, one thats lacking a
spine..........

So you are saying that there are many many many spineless judges?

Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......

--

SVL

Then Judicial Activism is only a myth?

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:15:33 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Gummer's trying to support "Patriot Act" I, II, probably praying
for III ... not that he's read them, thought or comprehended anything
yet ....... it would probably kill him ....

So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?

Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?

Got any names of these judges? Did YOU vote for them?
It's all done in secret, right?
Got any proof any papers were even actually signed?

"Patriot" II does not even seem to require any judges, no
matter how secret .....

Even talking about it is a crime, right?

He's having a particularily hard time understanding the role of judges is
being eliminated altogher, isnt he.........

--

SVL

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:06:58 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Patriot" II does not even seem to require any judges, no
matter how secret .....

Even talking about it is a crime, right?

He's having a particularily hard time understanding the role of judges is
being eliminated altogher, isnt he.........

--

SVL

I understand quite well, that you think they are.

I also quite convinced that if the administration was a Democrat one,
you would be quite happy with, or at the least, say nothing, about the
PA.

Shrug..

GUnner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:06:58 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Patriot" II does not even seem to require any judges, no
matter how secret .....

Even talking about it is a crime, right?

He's having a particularily hard time understanding the role of judges is
being eliminated altogher, isnt he.........

--

SVL

I understand quite well, that you think they are.

I also quite convinced that if the administration was a Democrat one,
you would be quite happy with, or at the least, say nothing, about the
PA.


Somehow I doubt it.

Remaining basically non-partisan instead of following along with some
pack-mentality herd probably gives one a bit more perspective on what the
various pack$ are really up to.

51% voted against Kerry, while 48% voted against Bush--but that still doesnt
mean a goddamned thing so far as there really werent *ANY* good canditates
up for election this last time around.

Just my opinion is all........

--

SVL

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so
went
MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a
whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though
none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their
heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be
another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.


It was lousy police work got him involved in the whole mess in the first
place.

The fact he was considered a suspect?

Everyone should always be considered a suspect--process of elimination......

No. The fact that they ran head
long into charging him before they got their ducks in a row? Yes
indeedy.

And for an inordinate amount of time afterwards...

( though seems you've made my point )

--

SVL

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:37:59 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


So you are then making the claim that all judges, or the majority of
them, have no balls and no ability to say no, no matter how tenuous
the criteria presented to them for the court order. Then few judges
are able to perform their role as judges?


Im saying that by this law there are apparently no justifiable grounds
upon
which the judge *can* say no........but even if he did.........
Even if he did, then what?


Odd.. given the amount of judicial activism that is present in todays
system..Id have figured that few of them were such pussies.

Perhaps its only the Liberal ones?


No, the man just finds himself a different judge then, one thats lacking
a
spine..........

So you are saying that there are many many many spineless judges?


You wanna circle jerk.........regardless of the judge's political leaning or
backbone, his role in the matter is now redundant, with his hands being
tied.....

Hell, we might just as well do away with a judges involvement altogether
when it comes to issuing authorization for wiretappings.......


Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told
there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......


Then Judicial Activism is only a myth?


In this case it would appear so, yes.

Pesky judges anyways........logically, the next step would be to just do
away with them all completely...........

--

SVL

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:52:19 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


You wanna circle jerk.........regardless of the judge's political leaning or
backbone, his role in the matter is now redundant, with his hands being
tied.....

Actually..any judge may deny cert for just about any reason he so
desires. He only has to justify his decisions to the Judicial Review
panel. Happens every day.

Hell, we might just as well do away with a judges involvement altogether
when it comes to issuing authorization for wiretappings.......


Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told
there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......


Then Judicial Activism is only a myth?


In this case it would appear so, yes.

You do have cites for actual cases, Im sure. Please provide them.

Pesky judges anyways........logically, the next step would be to just do
away with them all completely...........

Be advised that you will abducted by an alien at 4:27 PM this
afternoon.

Gunner


--

SVL



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:55:36 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:06:58 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Patriot" II does not even seem to require any judges, no
matter how secret .....

Even talking about it is a crime, right?

He's having a particularily hard time understanding the role of judges is
being eliminated altogher, isnt he.........

--

SVL

I understand quite well, that you think they are.

I also quite convinced that if the administration was a Democrat one,
you would be quite happy with, or at the least, say nothing, about the
PA.


Somehow I doubt it.

Remaining basically non-partisan instead of following along with some
pack-mentality herd probably gives one a bit more perspective on what the
various pack$ are really up to.

51% voted against Kerry, while 48% voted against Bush--but that still doesnt
mean a goddamned thing so far as there really werent *ANY* good canditates
up for election this last time around.

Just my opinion is all........

Im part of the 51% that voted FOR Bush.

Shrug.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:24:38 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so
went
MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a
whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news, though
none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their
heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be
another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.


It was lousy police work got him involved in the whole mess in the first
place.

The fact he was considered a suspect?

Everyone should always be considered a suspect--process of elimination......

No. The fact that they ran head
long into charging him before they got their ducks in a row? Yes
indeedy.

And for an inordinate amount of time afterwards...

( though seems you've made my point )

You have admitted that the system works.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:52:19 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


You wanna circle jerk.........regardless of the judge's political leaning
or
backbone, his role in the matter is now redundant, with his hands being
tied.....

Actually..any judge may deny cert for just about any reason he so
desires. He only has to justify his decisions to the Judicial Review
panel. Happens every day.


And upon what grounds would he be justified in these cases ???


Hell, we might just as well do away with a judges involvement altogether
when it comes to issuing authorization for wiretappings.......


Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told
there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......


Then Judicial Activism is only a myth?


In this case it would appear so, yes.

You do have cites for actual cases, Im sure. Please provide them.


If I told you, I'd have to kill you..........


Pesky judges anyways........logically, the next step would be to just do
away with them all completely...........

Be advised that you will abducted by an alien at 4:27 PM this
afternoon.


Them black helicopters HAVE gotten to be rather ANNOYING lately......

Recently I installed 3 infrared sensors onto an alt-azimuth stage and then
linked them up to differential resolvers on the gun platform.....Ive been
itching for a chance to do a live firing test.....

This afternoon you say ???

--

SVL

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:24:38 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:16:11 -0800, "Archie_Bunker"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:34:48 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:56:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Getoverit" wrote in message
news:iOAod.165811$hj.29489@fed1read07...
Cliff wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 07:06:55 -0500, "John&Michelle"
wrote:


Can I hear an Amen, Brotha?
"hamei" wrote in message
...


http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this
discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so
went
MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be
specific.


Nobodys saying for sure, looks like at the very least we got a
whole
batch
in gitmo, theres several more that are citizens in the news,
though
none
that I know personally.....

Just that they liked to wear towells over their
heads.........definately
suspect......

Go ahead, wear towells, you can rest ASSured your not gonna be
another
one
soon, hmmmm???

So you dont know any one? And no one is talking? So how do you
know
that your rights have been taken away?

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/006411.html

Seems there was no Constitutional violation, and the system worked
as
intended to protect Mr. Mayfield against lousy police work.


It was lousy police work got him involved in the whole mess in the
first
place.

The fact he was considered a suspect?

Everyone should always be considered a suspect--process of
elimination......

No. The fact that they ran head
long into charging him before they got their ducks in a row? Yes
indeedy.

And for an inordinate amount of time afterwards...

( though seems you've made my point )

You have admitted that the system works.


Likely only because he was a prominant lawyer--there are of course other
similar cases........

--

SVL

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:55:36 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

51% voted against Kerry, while 48% voted against Bush-

Voting analysis seemed to show that it was the fundies
that voted for the shrubbie. Something like 95% .... and
they are close to 50% of the US population ..... hence perhaps
everyone else voted for the other guy .....

That election was about a certain specific religion.
--
Cliff

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:54:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im part of the 51% that voted FOR Bush.

So much for any remaining credibility .... you lied
about being a "libertarian" .....

BTW, That IS a good, on-topic post to this thread:
"51% of you are certified fools ."
--
Cliff

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:55:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:


You have admitted that the system works.

Define "system" snicker.
Germany's system worked just fine too.
--
Cliff

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:30:13 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:52:19 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:


You wanna circle jerk.........regardless of the judge's political leaning
or
backbone, his role in the matter is now redundant, with his hands being
tied.....

Actually..any judge may deny cert for just about any reason he so
desires. He only has to justify his decisions to the Judicial Review
panel. Happens every day.


And upon what grounds would he be justified in these cases ???


Lack of evidence that meets his criteria. Judges are not supposed to
rubber stamp such things.

Hell, we might just as well do away with a judges involvement altogether
when it comes to issuing authorization for wiretappings.......


Its looking here like the ONLY requirement is the judge's being told
there
is ( or is gonna be ) an "investigation" and a wiretap needs
authorized.........no other information needs presented to the
judge...nada....zip......


Then Judicial Activism is only a myth?


In this case it would appear so, yes.

You do have cites for actual cases, Im sure. Please provide them.


If I told you, I'd have to kill you..........

Right. Bring your lunch. And a toe tag.


Pesky judges anyways........logically, the next step would be to just do
away with them all completely...........

Be advised that you will abducted by an alien at 4:27 PM this
afternoon.


Them black helicopters HAVE gotten to be rather ANNOYING lately......

Recently I installed 3 infrared sensors onto an alt-azimuth stage and then
linked them up to differential resolvers on the gun platform.....Ive been
itching for a chance to do a live firing test.....

This afternoon you say ???


Did they show up?

Gunner



Come shed a tear for Michael Moore-
Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore
George Bush has just won another four.
Poor, sad little Michael Moore

Diogenes

"Strabo" wrote in message
...
In 51% of you are certified fools ... on Tue, 23 Nov 2004
08:39:48 GMT, by Gunner, we read:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:38:39 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

snipped
http://www.rense.com/general59/newsg...gisillegal.htm


Gunner & the fundies & wingers will be very pleased
with this one.

Get over it. Loser.

You do realize that by the mere act of participating in this discussion
you
too could could be whisked away and held indefinately ???

*I* do..............

YOUR rights just went DOWN the DRAIN, and along with them so went MINE
!!!

Right. Ayup.

So who do you know that has been vanished? Please be specific.

Gunner

How would one know? A secret court can be used to approve a
government search or arrest.

Additionally, the PA itself precludes dispensing any knowledge of
a any government defined under the PA.


Your probly wasting your time, I already went full circle with this and
seems not a bit has penetrated..........

Oh well--sure odd that someone who is generally so verbose about the
possibility of having his rights being taken away would fail to even
recognize when it has in reality actually occured.

--

SVL

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:26:47 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

Additionally, the PA itself precludes dispensing any knowledge of
a any government defined under the PA.


Your probly wasting your time, I already went full circle with this and
seems not a bit has penetrated..........

Oh well--sure odd that someone who is generally so verbose about the
possibility of having his rights being taken away would fail to even
recognize when it has in reality actually occured.

Wingers are kind of dense.
You need to keep pounding in hopes that some of it will sink
in now & then.
Fundies don't care. Their superstition is that it does not
apply to them.

Keep pounding anyway. A few will learn. All will probably
learn the hard way later.
--
Cliff

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:26:47 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
wrote:

government search or arrest.

Additionally, the PA itself precludes dispensing any knowledge of
a any government defined under the PA.


Your probly wasting your time, I already went full circle with this and
seems not a bit has penetrated..........

Oh well--sure odd that someone who is generally so verbose about the
possibility of having his rights being taken away would fail to even
recognize when it has in reality actually occured.

--

SVL

When you provide factual actual data that my rights have been taken
away, or that woulda/coulda/maybe/someday is about to happen, then we
will talk.

So far, you have posted "IF". No different that Johns "assault rifles
will pile bodies up on the streets in windrows".

Oddly enough..in neither case do I see any evidence of such.

Ill make you a deal. "IF" the day comes and our rights really do get
eroded as a result of the PA, Ill load up enough gear for the both of
us, and Ill equip you and yours, mine and mine and we will go to the
barricades together and fight against the Tyranny with whatever means
necessary, be it ballot box, soap box, jury box...or the cartridge
box. Ill teach you how to make IEDs, and load you down with arms and
ammo, and teach you how to use them.

Sound like a deal?

Gunner



Come shed a tear for Michael Moore-
Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore
George Bush has just won another four.
Poor, sad little Michael Moore

Diogenes