Slashdot had a link to this site:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...are_quest.html

WTF?

Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.

And...the premise that one could print out in MS word and the size match
would be exact is laughable. That thing has been copied so many times
that one could only match relative sizes, not overall size....anyone who
has been re-faxed their own fax knows the size changes and there are
distortions with each scan and reproduction.

Not saying whether they are fakes or not (didn't see the article) but
the arguments used in this website are preaching to the chior...only
believable if you really want to believe anyway.

We'll never really know as Mr Bush's records from the military seem to
have mostly disappeared to the same black hole as his Texas driving
records and (alleged) convictions and arrests.

Koz

Jim Stewart wrote:

Slashdot had a link to this site:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...are_quest.html

WTF?

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Koz
wrote:

Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.

1. Were Selectrics common in military offices at that time?
2. Are there any other documents from that same office at the same
time to compare?

I believe at this time..the answer to both, is no.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Koz
wrote:

Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.

1. Were Selectrics common in military offices at that time?

If they were the most expensive model availiable, probably.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

I would assume that the Texas Guard did. We had Selectrics all over the 48th
Aromored HQ here in the Georgia Guard back in '66 and the Texas Guard had a
lot more budget that we did.

We only had Royal electrics at my office so whenever I needed to type up a
really nice letter I would run down to the Guard Hq and use one of their
Selectrics. I used a Times Roman ball too. Got yelled at by the Sgt once
for not changing back to the san sertif ball he used for his reports.


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Koz
wrote:

Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.

1. Were Selectrics common in military offices at that time?
2. Are there any other documents from that same office at the same
time to compare?

I believe at this time..the answer to both, is no.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

First, The culture of the memo is 20 years too late. If it had been
written at all, it would have been a "Memorandum for Record", not a
CYA letter and although CYA was a concept, and was occasionally spoken
of, it would not have been used as a title on official correspondence.
Who ever wrote this learned it from TV shows. Second, who was this
LT Bush, in 1973, that a Col and General Officer would give a rats ass
what happened to him over something this minor. The First Sergeant
might give him a piece of his mind, a Company Commander might get
involved, possibly the S1 might report in a staff meeting to the
Squadron Commander that X number of pilots hadn't got their pysicals
yet. In 1973 the military was under Congressional mandate to
downsize. There was a surplus of Officers. This just doesn't ring
true by any test. Third, there were only a couple of fonts allowed in
military correspondence, no matter what was out there, and none of
them had non standard characters. Compliance with the rules of
correspondence was a BIG DEAL, everybody froms the clerks on up
enforced it. You couldn't type something at home on your wife's
portable and put it into the system, you had to have it retyped on an
officially recognized font, spacing, and so forth.
Paul

You obviously have absolutely no idea what the National Guard was like in
the'60s. Sure, when we had to send forms up the line or make out orders
they were typed to official specs but notes back and forth between officers
at Division HQ were typed with what ever was on the typewriter at the time.
It appears that these memos were not "official" correspondence but notes to
his immediate superior officer explaining is actions and as the note said,
"covering his ass".

"6e70" wrote in message
m...
First, The culture of the memo is 20 years too late. If it had been
written at all, it would have been a "Memorandum for Record", not a
CYA letter and although CYA was a concept, and was occasionally spoken
of, it would not have been used as a title on official correspondence.
Who ever wrote this learned it from TV shows. Second, who was this
LT Bush, in 1973, that a Col and General Officer would give a rats ass
what happened to him over something this minor. The First Sergeant
might give him a piece of his mind, a Company Commander might get
involved, possibly the S1 might report in a staff meeting to the
Squadron Commander that X number of pilots hadn't got their pysicals
yet. In 1973 the military was under Congressional mandate to
downsize. There was a surplus of Officers. This just doesn't ring
true by any test. Third, there were only a couple of fonts allowed in
military correspondence, no matter what was out there, and none of
them had non standard characters. Compliance with the rules of
correspondence was a BIG DEAL, everybody froms the clerks on up
enforced it. You couldn't type something at home on your wife's
portable and put it into the system, you had to have it retyped on an
officially recognized font, spacing, and so forth.
Paul

More likely to have the Cent mark and Dollar mark and daggers and crosses for sub notes.

My dad had to make a custom SCM unit - about 1/3 of the keys had a Greek letter or a
super case 2 and 3 and sub case 2 and 3 but not the ^th on a flip up key hammer.

In the university I worked in, the neutron gun lab that I "tech'ed" in used an IBM
selectric driven by a pdp-8 for data logging. Printers in those days were TTY's or
wet monsters and mainframe monsters. Then the digital selectric.

I think my spinterm printer - the one in the shop floor to scrap out - had a wheel
that had two letters in it - but circles for TM and R and C ; th is a bit handwriting mode.

Martin

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I would assume that the Texas Guard did. We had Selectrics all over the 48th
Aromored HQ here in the Georgia Guard back in '66 and the Texas Guard had a
lot more budget that we did.

We only had Royal electrics at my office so whenever I needed to type up a
really nice letter I would run down to the Guard Hq and use one of their
Selectrics. I used a Times Roman ball too. Got yelled at by the Sgt once
for not changing back to the san sertif ball he used for his reports.


"Gunner" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Koz
wrote:


Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.

1. Were Selectrics common in military offices at that time?
2. Are there any other documents from that same office at the same
time to compare?

I believe at this time..the answer to both, is no.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke





--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:28:51 -0700, Koz
wrote:


Hehehe.....Selectrics do the TH in superscript (if you have the right
ball) which foils at least half their premise. Can't remember exactly
but I seem to remember the better models did have variable spacing
(kerning) of the text (my memory only, not guaranteed). I believe that
was one of the selling points to pay the big bucks for a selectric
rather than the other brand.


1. Were Selectrics common in military offices at that time?
2. Are there any other documents from that same office at the same
time to compare?

I believe at this time..the answer to both, is no.

Gunner

Wrong on both counts, Gunner.

See other posts as to commonality of Selectrics in military offices.
See other documents, previously released by the Bush administration, for
superscript TH usage. So the TANG had a typewriter with a ball that had
that superscript character.

As to proportional spacing; the freepers argue that machines of the era
were incapable of kerning. True, in a strict sense, but the memo shows
no indication of true kerning. Proportional spacing was easy with old
Selectrics, though. Mine has a lever to the left of the roller with
four positions; 10, 12, PSN, and PS. I can use proportional spacing
with any ball, but it looks better if the ball is marked PS. The
letters center better in their proportional spaces. The freepers now
admit that the memo in question has simple proportional spacing, and
that earlier, officially released documents show use of the superscript
TH, but argue that the earlier documents didn't have proportional
spacing. Big deal. Flip of a lever.

One thing my typewriter doesn't do perfectly is align the letters
horizontally. It's very difficult to make a ball with all the letters
in perfect register, so some are a little high, some a little low. All
mechanical typewriters I know of have this problem. Looking at an image
of the memo printed in today's newspaper, the letters don't line up
horizontally.

I think the document was produced by a typewriter similar to mine. Now
as to when that was done and by whom, you may carry that as far as you
feel comfortable. But I don't think the document itself offers
substantial evidence of forgery.

Anyway, Gunner, the answer to both your questions is "yes". I may have
anticipated some other questions. What do you believe now, and why?

Dale Scroggins

In article , Dale Scroggins says...

I think the document was produced by a typewriter similar to mine. Now
as to when that was done and by whom, you may carry that as far as you
feel comfortable. But I don't think the document itself offers
substantial evidence of forgery.

Oh well. Nice try, Karl Rove! Glad to see he's in
there pitching, trying his darndest to keep 'his man's'
feet clean. Some you win, some you lose.

Looks like a loser for Mr. Rove on this one.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Dale Scroggins
says...

I think the document was produced by a typewriter similar to mine. Now
as to when that was done and by whom, you may carry that as far as you
feel comfortable. But I don't think the document itself offers
substantial evidence of forgery.

Oh well. Nice try, Karl Rove! Glad to see he's in
there pitching, trying his darndest to keep 'his man's'
feet clean. Some you win, some you lose.

Looks like a loser for Mr. Rove on this one.

Jim

It doesn't really matter, all they have to do is muddy the waters and the
dittohead types, along with the great unwashed masses of Fox News viewers
will be satisfied that the documents have been totally debunked. The lazy
swing voters who can't read a newspaper to save their lives will consider
the whole matter too confusing to evaluate.

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:33:04 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:


Anyway, Gunner, the answer to both your questions is "yes". I may have
anticipated some other questions. What do you believe now, and why?

Dale Scroggins

At this point, I shall take a wait and see stance.

Im still wondering why the daughter and wife of the gent in question
state categorically that those are frauds.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:33:04 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:


Anyway, Gunner, the answer to both your questions is "yes". I may have
anticipated some other questions. What do you believe now, and why?

Dale Scroggins


At this point, I shall take a wait and see stance.

Im still wondering why the daughter and wife of the gent in question
state categorically that those are frauds.

Gunner

I saw reports of statements by the widow and a son. Didn't see anything
about a daughter; widow and son said, as I recall, it was unfair to
pick out things the "gent" wrote thirty years ago and broadcast them
when he couldn't put his statements in context. Valid point, but
uncorrectable. After we die, things we wrote down are likely to be
taken at face value.

Widow avows he wasn't a typist. Didn't discuss likelihood of a clerk or
secretary.

Didn't see anything from either the widow or the son claiming direct
knowledge that the documents were forged. Just general sentiment.
Widow admits he left some other documents around, but she really hasn't
looked for them.

Dale Scroggins

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:42:31 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Slashdot had a link to this site:

http://shapeofdays.typepad.com/the_s...are_quest.html

WTF?

Fort Worth Star Telegram - Sept 17, 2004

By Michael Hedges

Houston Chronicle


WASHINGTON - Bill Burkett, who has emerged as a possible CBS source
for disputed memos about President Bush's Guard service, has a long
history of making charges against Bush and the Texas National Guard.

But Burkett's allegations have changed over the years and have been
dismissed as baseless by former Guard colleagues, state legislators
and others.

Even Burkett has admitted that some of his allegations are false.

Burkett wrote a long indictment of Bush for a Web site in 2003 in
which he said he was personally ordered to "alter personnel records of
George W. Bush." In that article, Burkett said that when he refused he
was sent to Panama as punishment, where he contracted a disabling
disease.

But when asked about that charge by the Houston Chronicle in February,
Burkett said, "That statement was not accurate, that is overstated."

Burkett, 54, of Baird, has refused to return calls since the CBS
report on Bush's Guard service aired last week.

On Thursday, The Washington Post and The New York Times named Burkett
as a possible source for documents CBS used that experts have called
fakes. The documents were faxed from a Kinko's in Abilene, the closest
commercial copier to Burkett's home in Baird.

The CBS report used documents signed by since-deceased Texas Air
National Guard Lt. Col. Jerry Killian to suggest that Bush disobeyed a
direct order to take a flight physical in 1972.

If Burkett is the source of the CBS documents, he apparently must have
obtained them recently. In earlier interviews, he described years of
fruitless searching.

One month ago, in an essay posted on a progressive Web site, Burkett
theorized that Killian would have been a likely person to know more
about Bush's service. But, he conceded, "I have found no documentation
from LTC Killian's hand or staff that indicate that this unit was
involved in any complicit way to ... cover for the failures of 1Lt.
Bush." Burkett went on to say, "On the contrary, LTC Killian's remarks
are rare."

Several people with connections to the Texas National Guard
immediately suspected that Burkett was the source of the CBS report
last week and saw it as part of an ongoing vendetta against Bush and
the Guard.

If Burkett does prove to be the source of the documents, CBS got them
from a man with a well-established history of Bush loathing.

In an article Burkett wrote for the Internet last year, he compared
Bush to Hitler and Napoleon as one of "the three small men" who sought
to rule through tyranny. "Three small men who wanted to conquer and
vanquish," Burkett wrote. Burkett confirmed authorship of that article
in the February Chronicle interview.

That Burkett's story has changed or evolved over the years is a matter
of record.

During Bush's first White House run in 2000, Burkett told reporters
that he overheard both ends of a phone conversation between former
Texas Guard commander Gen. Daniel James III and Joe Allbaugh, Bush's
one-time Texas chief of staff, that he said occurred in the summer of
1997.

But that claim changed this year.

In February, Burkett said he witnessed documents from Bush's records
in a garbage can at a Guard base in Austin.