So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

-

These posters just seen from Facebook's Used to be a *******:

If you're behind someone using an ATM at night, let them know you're
not a threat by gently kissing their neck.

If your ass looks like gravel, maybe rethink wearing the spandex.

My favorite thing to do at libraries is to leave the browser tabs open
to a search for "how to clean semen off keyboards".

All my passwords are protected by amnesia.

Why don't you just get back in your little car with lights and pull
over someone who cares?

I really need a haircut but I'm not sure I'm up to the small talk.

"Religion is an escapist fantasy which prevents people from
experiencing life." I unexpectedly screamed, which startled both
myself and the cat.

It doesn't take a village to raise a child. It takes parents with the
balls to stand up to the kid and say "NO!"

"SHOW US YOUR TITS!" I shout, as I elbow my way into church.

In which recycle bin do I put my wasted potential?

The worst time to hear "I told you so." is when you end up saying it
to yourself.

I'm so selfish I wear ribbed condoms inside-out.

Social media is the best thing that ever happened to stupidity.

A taser, but installed in my doorbell.

--
Self-development is a higher duty than self-sacrifice.
-- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?


I used those combinations plus brass on the antenna and solar panels
for many years without a problem. Maybe the LPS-3 I spray on them
helps?

LPS-3 doesn't protect aluminum from chlorinated town water. So far
Ox-Gard has kept the aluminum garden hose fitting screwed onto a brass
vacuum breaker clean. It works well on aluminum antenna elements with
copper fork terminals and stainless screws in place of the original
rivets.
http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b

Every few years the signal quality decreases and when I take the
antenna down the element-to-element resistance measures around an Ohm.
I scrub the joints, apply Ox-Gard and then measure maybe 20 milliOhms
between them, as the voltage drop with 1 Amp passing through.

--jsw

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 8:35:16 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

No, just lightly coat all surfaces with Johnson's wax.

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Use original Duralac anticorrosive jointing compound on all fasteners.
http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/duralac.html
If you have a large area of other metal in contact with aluminium, use a
vinyl or mylar tape gasket stuck to the cleaned aluminium surface and
trimmed to be only fractionally larger than the contact area. If you use
a loose gasket, you *MUST* use Duralac or similar on the face touching
the aluminium to prevent poltice corrosion.

That should give you acceptable corrosion resistance even in a coastal
area, or with high air polllution or within the spray drift zone of a
major highway thats salted in the winter.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote in
:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is
304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Use original Duralac anticorrosive jointing compound on all
fasteners.
http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/duralac.html
If you have a large area of other metal in contact with aluminium,
use a
vinyl or mylar tape gasket stuck to the cleaned aluminium surface
and
trimmed to be only fractionally larger than the contact area. If
you use
a loose gasket, you *MUST* use Duralac or similar on the face
touching
the aluminium to prevent poltice corrosion.

That should give you acceptable corrosion resistance even in a
coastal
area, or with high air polllution or within the spray drift zone of
a
major highway thats salted in the winter.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

Barium Chromate, its active ingredient, is known to the State of New
Jersey to be toxic and potentially carcinogenic, and they are our
experts on hazardous waste spills. .
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/3074.pdf

--jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in news:nlr5b5$ain$1@dont-
email.me:

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote in
:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is
304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Use original Duralac anticorrosive jointing compound on all
fasteners.
http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/duralac.html
snip
Barium Chromate, its active ingredient, is known to the State of New
Jersey to be toxic and potentially carcinogenic, and they are our
experts on hazardous waste spills. .
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/3074.pdf

Yep. Chromates are generally highly toxic. However most Barium salts are
virtually insoluable, and Duralac has an organic binder which minimises
leeching out of the joint. It has a long track record as a reliable
anti-corrosion jointing compound in the aviation and marine industries,
and as long as its stored safely, applied in accordance with its safety
instructions and any excess is carefully cleaned up and the waste
disposed of in accordance with local HAZMAT regulations, is minamally
hazardous.

There is also the reformulated Chromate free Duralac Green, but it
doesn't have anywhere near as long a track record. However if local
regulations prohibit Chromates, its probably your best option.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in
news:nlr5b5$ain$1@dont-
email.me:

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in
message
...
Larry Jaques wrote in
:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is
304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so,
is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Use original Duralac anticorrosive jointing compound on all
fasteners.
http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/duralac.html
snip
Barium Chromate, its active ingredient, is known to the State of
New
Jersey to be toxic and potentially carcinogenic, and they are our
experts on hazardous waste spills. .
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/3074.pdf

Yep. Chromates are generally highly toxic. However most Barium
salts are
virtually insoluable, and Duralac has an organic binder which
minimises
leeching out of the joint. It has a long track record as a reliable
anti-corrosion jointing compound in the aviation and marine
industries,
and as long as its stored safely, applied in accordance with its
safety
instructions and any excess is carefully cleaned up and the waste
disposed of in accordance with local HAZMAT regulations, is
minamally
hazardous.

There is also the reformulated Chromate free Duralac Green, but it
doesn't have anywhere near as long a track record. However if local
regulations prohibit Chromates, its probably your best option.
--
Ian Malcolm.

The chemists' memory aid for Barium (Bury-'em) salts is:

"Sulfate he ate, sulfide he died."

My experience ordering books from England has kept me from ordering
anything else.

--jsw

Larry Jaques wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Don't use "rubber" next to aluminum. We had a Dodge van that had rear A/C.
The refrigerant lines were aluminum, and they were supported every foot or
so by clamps that had a rubber insert. The lines were in great shape,
EXCEPT where clamped. At these locations, they had turned into sponge.
Maybe road salt got in there and remained, but my theory is that the rubber
exuded some sulfuric stuff that ate the aluminum.

Jon

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:35:37 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized nuts.
Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is there any
way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

JBWeld? Not to make it so you can take things apart later -- just to
remind you of the futility of it all.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
I'm looking for work! See my website if you're interested
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:55:35 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:35:37 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized nuts.
Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is there any
way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

JBWeld? Not to make it so you can take things apart later -- just to
remind you of the futility of it all.

Galvanized fasteners are quite resistant to galvanic corrosion with
aluminum. And the steel underneath the zinc is also fairly benign with
aluminum. In fact, the aluminum will act like a sacrificial anode
against plain steel, but the activity will be very low. The zinc
barrier should hold up for a long time.

Stainless, as everyone knows, is deadly against aluminum. You might
get enough juice out of that galvanic cell that you should wire it in
with your solar cells, to make a hybrid battery. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:21:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?


I used those combinations plus brass on the antenna and solar panels
for many years without a problem. Maybe the LPS-3 I spray on them
helps?

That's excellent news. Thanks, Jim.

WTF? $22 a can at Amazon? YGBSM! ($15 eBay, better)


LPS-3 doesn't protect aluminum from chlorinated town water. So far
Ox-Gard has kept the aluminum garden hose fitting screwed onto a brass
vacuum breaker clean. It works well on aluminum antenna elements with
copper fork terminals and stainless screws in place of the original
rivets.
http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b

I'm on a well, so that's not an issue here, but I tend to lube my hose
ends every year or two with whatever grease is handy. Moly and white
lithium in a can are two, but I now have a tube of synthetic which is
nice, as well. I -hate- stuck hose fittings. Lube goes on nylon,
brass, and aluminum ends, regardless.


Every few years the signal quality decreases and when I take the
antenna down the element-to-element resistance measures around an Ohm.
I scrub the joints, apply Ox-Gard and then measure maybe 20 milliOhms
between them, as the voltage drop with 1 Amp passing through.

Oh, joys. I remember antenna maintenance/replacement eons ago. It
was never much fun.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 15:12:10 -0000 (UTC), Ian Malcolm
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Use original Duralac anticorrosive jointing compound on all fasteners.
http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/duralac.html
If you have a large area of other metal in contact with aluminium, use a
vinyl or mylar tape gasket stuck to the cleaned aluminium surface and
trimmed to be only fractionally larger than the contact area. If you use
a loose gasket, you *MUST* use Duralac or similar on the face touching
the aluminium to prevent poltice corrosion.

I think I'll baste the parts in something like that during assembly.


That should give you acceptable corrosion resistance even in a coastal
area, or with high air polllution or within the spray drift zone of a
major highway thats salted in the winter.

Thanks, Ian. No salt, no coast, so I'm in good shape.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 16:05:02 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

Don't use "rubber" next to aluminum. We had a Dodge van that had rear A/C.
The refrigerant lines were aluminum, and they were supported every foot or
so by clamps that had a rubber insert. The lines were in great shape,
EXCEPT where clamped. At these locations, they had turned into sponge.
Maybe road salt got in there and remained, but my theory is that the rubber
exuded some sulfuric stuff that ate the aluminum.

Funny you should say that. The corners of the frames were padded with
high-quality Chiwanese rubber strips and angle aluminum during
packaging for shipment to me. g

I had considered using those under the z plates above the Unistrut
until you mentioned it.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:55:35 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:35:37 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized nuts.
Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is there any
way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?

JBWeld? Not to make it so you can take things apart later -- just to
remind you of the futility of it all.

LOL! Thanks, Tim.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:35:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

So, my kW of solar panels came in. The frames and z-brackets are
aluminum and the hardware (5/16x2-1/2" lags and 1/4-20 bolts) is 304
stainless. I picked up Unistrut to hold it and it has galvanized
nuts. Will there be hell to pay from electrolysis, and, if so, is
there any way to mitigate it? Rubber discs under the washers?


The boat people have various substances which work. I've even used a
marine adhesive-sealant (3M 5200) and had no problems with stainless
into aluminum.


-

These posters just seen from Facebook's Used to be a *******:

If you're behind someone using an ATM at night, let them know you're
not a threat by gently kissing their neck.

If your ass looks like gravel, maybe rethink wearing the spandex.

My favorite thing to do at libraries is to leave the browser tabs open
to a search for "how to clean semen off keyboards".

All my passwords are protected by amnesia.

Why don't you just get back in your little car with lights and pull
over someone who cares?

I really need a haircut but I'm not sure I'm up to the small talk.

"Religion is an escapist fantasy which prevents people from
experiencing life." I unexpectedly screamed, which startled both
myself and the cat.

It doesn't take a village to raise a child. It takes parents with the
balls to stand up to the kid and say "NO!"

"SHOW US YOUR TITS!" I shout, as I elbow my way into church.

In which recycle bin do I put my wasted potential?

The worst time to hear "I told you so." is when you end up saying it
to yourself.

I'm so selfish I wear ribbed condoms inside-out.

Social media is the best thing that ever happened to stupidity.

A taser, but installed in my doorbell.
--
cheers,

John B.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:21:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
Every few years the signal quality decreases and when I take the
antenna down the element-to-element resistance measures around an
Ohm.
I scrub the joints, apply Ox-Gard and then measure maybe 20
milliOhms
between them, as the voltage drop with 1 Amp passing through.

Oh, joys. I remember antenna maintenance/replacement eons ago. It
was never much fun.

The antennas telescope down to roof level and are quick and easy to
remove. Raising them is harder because the guy lines tangle, but I
don't have to do that quickly as a storm builds.

The pulley system that raises one is a home made aluminum, stainless,
brass and galvanized assembly that's been exposed to the weather for
many years. When I inspected it and hit the fittings with marine
trailer hub grease last weekend it was in fine shape.

I think I've temporarily assembled the antenna elements with stainless
screws when I ran out of aluminum ones without any corrosion problems,
which would appear quickly as poor reception. The waxed wood
insulators needed longer screws than the molded plastic ones.

Hearing about $160 cable bills reminds me that my antenna system
isn't -that- much of a nuisance to maintain.
--jsw

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:11:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:21:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

...
Every few years the signal quality decreases and when I take the
antenna down the element-to-element resistance measures around an
Ohm.
I scrub the joints, apply Ox-Gard and then measure maybe 20
milliOhms
between them, as the voltage drop with 1 Amp passing through.

Oh, joys. I remember antenna maintenance/replacement eons ago. It
was never much fun.

The antennas telescope down to roof level and are quick and easy to
remove. Raising them is harder because the guy lines tangle, but I
don't have to do that quickly as a storm builds.

How many storms/yr force you to do that?

Do you loosen your guys prior to dropping? I've only known one person
who blunt-forced his antenna back up with the guys untouched, and he
probably shortened the life of his ridge roofing by 15 years.

I found that loosening them (just two anchor points on the top two
sections of a 3-section pole) by about 6" each made it a whole lot
easier to telescope the pole back up. They always need a scosh of
retightening anyway.


The pulley system that raises one is a home made aluminum, stainless,
brass and galvanized assembly that's been exposed to the weather for
many years. When I inspected it and hit the fittings with marine
trailer hub grease last weekend it was in fine shape.

Excellent.


I think I've temporarily assembled the antenna elements with stainless
screws when I ran out of aluminum ones without any corrosion problems,
which would appear quickly as poor reception. The waxed wood
insulators needed longer screws than the molded plastic ones.

I remember talking with you about that a few years back. How are they
holding up?


Hearing about $160 cable bills reminds me that my antenna system
isn't -that- much of a nuisance to maintain.

Yeah, really. g

My DISH bill was only $90/mo 11 years ago when I gave up teevee.
Thanks to Netflix and Amazon Prime, all the movied I want to watch
cost me less than 2 months of DISH and I have _zero_ commercials to
haunt me. I watch some videos on TV sites online and remember why I
don't _at_all_ miss television. The BBC online has refreshing views
of American politics with much less bias than our own channels. And
though I've found them biased in some ways (2nd Amendment, etc.), I
have to dismiss less there than I do with Can'tNardlyNews, et al.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:11:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:21:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
...

The antennas telescope down to roof level and are quick and easy to
remove. Raising them is harder because the guy lines tangle, but I
don't have to do that quickly as a storm builds.

How many storms/yr force you to do that?

Perhaps once in 1 or 2 months. Everyone else's used weather funnels
out through New England. We see all types from Arctic blizzards
through tornadoes and Gulf hurricanes (Katrina), but rarely at full
intensity.

Do you loosen your guys prior to dropping? I've only known one
person
who blunt-forced his antenna back up with the guys untouched, and he
probably shortened the life of his ridge roofing by 15 years.

I found that loosening them (just two anchor points on the top two
sections of a 3-section pole) by about 6" each made it a whole lot
easier to telescope the pole back up. They always need a scosh of
retightening anyway.

There are two sets of guy lines. The lower ones run over pulleys at
the mast attachment and tie off at the base, so I can look up and
adjust them to straighten the mast since that's nearly impossible to
do from the outer ends. The upper ones are tied at the top with enough
slack that the antenna can sway perhaps half a foot, which I learned
to do at Mitre. Then I loosen the lower ones to reduce the column
loading on the mast.

The lower ones are weighted to take up the slack as I lower the mast,
so they don't drag and snag on shingles. The upper ones just blow
around and catch on the chimney etc. When I raise it I may have to
unsnag them with a telescoping pool cleaning pole.

A very handy jam cleat on the mast base holds the raising rope while I
untangle a guy line.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...oden-Jam-Cleat

If I don't have to replace a bent mast section the guy lines hold
their adjustment pretty well through lowering and raising. The antenna
jerks sideways to warn me if one pulls tight early.

Radio Shack masts folded. Chain link fence rail masts bend gradually
and can sometimes be straightened in a forked tree.

I think I've temporarily assembled the antenna elements with
stainless
screws when I ran out of aluminum ones without any corrosion
problems,
which would appear quickly as poor reception. The waxed wood
insulators needed longer screws than the molded plastic ones.

I remember talking with you about that a few years back. How are
they
holding up?

The signal level has dropped so I'll find out soon.

--jsw

Larry Jaques wrote:


Funny you should say that. The corners of the frames were padded with
high-quality Chiwanese rubber strips and angle aluminum during
packaging for shipment to me. g
Any sign of corrosion or discoloring of the aluminum?

I had considered using those under the z plates above the Unistrut
until you mentioned it.
Well, of course, there are TONS of different "rubber" materials. I would
definitely avoid real vulcanized rubber. You can probably detect that stuff
immediately from the smell. There are all sorts of plastic, silicone, etc.
types of materials that might be fine. (Many silicone caulks release
ammonia as they cure, causes the same problem.)

Jon

Ed Huntress wrote:


Galvanized fasteners are quite resistant to galvanic corrosion with
aluminum. And the steel underneath the zinc is also fairly benign with
aluminum. In fact, the aluminum will act like a sacrificial anode
against plain steel, but the activity will be very low. The zinc
barrier should hold up for a long time.

Depends on how acidic your rain is, of course. Some lightly galvanized
fittings are stripped down to the steel in a few years here.

Jon

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:51:35 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:


Galvanized fasteners are quite resistant to galvanic corrosion with
aluminum. And the steel underneath the zinc is also fairly benign with
aluminum. In fact, the aluminum will act like a sacrificial anode
against plain steel, but the activity will be very low. The zinc
barrier should hold up for a long time.

Depends on how acidic your rain is, of course. Some lightly galvanized
fittings are stripped down to the steel in a few years here.

Jon

Moral: Get good galvanized fittings. Or move out of the acid rain. g

Aluminum and stainless together is a CONSTANT problem here. I'm three
miles from tidewater, and five miles from a large bay. It shows up all
the time on boats and on architectural trim that's exposed to salt
air.

Galvanized does much better. (It's right next to aluminum on the
galvanic scale.) I've seen attempts to isolate stainless from
aluminum, but they usually fail. Salt will bridge the barrier and then
you're right back in trouble, although the corrosion goes much more
slowly without physical contact.

I haven't heard of a solution except that a friend tried some very
expensive Monel bolts on his boat. Against aluminum, they proved to be
worse than stainless. So much for that...

Good luck!

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:51:35 -0500, Jon Elson

wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:


Galvanized fasteners are quite resistant to galvanic corrosion
with
aluminum. And the steel underneath the zinc is also fairly benign
with
aluminum. In fact, the aluminum will act like a sacrificial anode
against plain steel, but the activity will be very low. The zinc
barrier should hold up for a long time.

Depends on how acidic your rain is, of course. Some lightly
galvanized
fittings are stripped down to the steel in a few years here.

Jon

Moral: Get good galvanized fittings. Or move out of the acid rain.
g

Aluminum and stainless together is a CONSTANT problem here. I'm
three
miles from tidewater, and five miles from a large bay. It shows up
all
the time on boats and on architectural trim that's exposed to salt
air.

Galvanized does much better. (It's right next to aluminum on the
galvanic scale.) I've seen attempts to isolate stainless from
aluminum, but they usually fail. Salt will bridge the barrier and
then
you're right back in trouble, although the corrosion goes much more
slowly without physical contact.

I haven't heard of a solution except that a friend tried some very
expensive Monel bolts on his boat. Against aluminum, they proved to
be
worse than stainless. So much for that...

Good luck!

--
Ed Huntress

I'm further inland and downwind of Vermont, western Mass and northern
New York which have little remaining heavy industry. A 6061 aluminum
plate that's been on the side of my HF solar collector for perhaps 3
years shows no more weathering at the stainless screws and galvanized
conduit bird perch than away from them. The only rapid corrosion here
besides the hose faucet handle is under oak leaves on my galvanized
roof panels where I neglected to spray LPS-3 first.

--jsw

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:14:09 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:11:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:21:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
...

The antennas telescope down to roof level and are quick and easy to
remove. Raising them is harder because the guy lines tangle, but I
don't have to do that quickly as a storm builds.

How many storms/yr force you to do that?

Perhaps once in 1 or 2 months. Everyone else's used weather funnels
out through New England. We see all types from Arctic blizzards
through tornadoes and Gulf hurricanes (Katrina), but rarely at full
intensity.

Egad, that's a lot. Condolences.



Do you loosen your guys prior to dropping? I've only known one
person
who blunt-forced his antenna back up with the guys untouched, and he
probably shortened the life of his ridge roofing by 15 years.

I found that loosening them (just two anchor points on the top two
sections of a 3-section pole) by about 6" each made it a whole lot
easier to telescope the pole back up. They always need a scosh of
retightening anyway.

There are two sets of guy lines. The lower ones run over pulleys at
the mast attachment and tie off at the base, so I can look up and
adjust them to straighten the mast since that's nearly impossible to
do from the outer ends. The upper ones are tied at the top with enough
slack that the antenna can sway perhaps half a foot, which I learned
to do at Mitre. Then I loosen the lower ones to reduce the column
loading on the mast.

Interesting. I've never left slack, but I've never lived in a
high-wind area, either. I've only lost one mast, and that was due to
not having replaced the 20 y/o rusted guy wires.


The lower ones are weighted to take up the slack as I lower the mast,
so they don't drag and snag on shingles. The upper ones just blow
around and catch on the chimney etc. When I raise it I may have to
unsnag them with a telescoping pool cleaning pole.

Yeah, those long uppers have too much play and move all over the place
with the slightest wind. I always try to do my antenna work in the
early morning, when it's very still. It's a helluva lot safer and
most indubitably easier.


A very handy jam cleat on the mast base holds the raising rope while I
untangle a guy line.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...oden-Jam-Cleat

Cool.


If I don't have to replace a bent mast section the guy lines hold
their adjustment pretty well through lowering and raising. The antenna
jerks sideways to warn me if one pulls tight early.

Radio Shack masts folded. Chain link fence rail masts bend gradually
and can sometimes be straightened in a forked tree.

g


I think I've temporarily assembled the antenna elements with
stainless
screws when I ran out of aluminum ones without any corrosion
problems,
which would appear quickly as poor reception. The waxed wood
insulators needed longer screws than the molded plastic ones.

I remember talking with you about that a few years back. How are
they
holding up?

The signal level has dropped so I'll find out soon.

Ah...

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:14:09 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The antennas telescope down to roof level and are quick and easy
to
remove. Raising them is harder because the guy lines tangle, but I
don't have to do that quickly as a storm builds.

How many storms/yr force you to do that?

Perhaps once in 1 or 2 months. Everyone else's used weather funnels
out through New England. We see all types from Arctic blizzards
through tornadoes and Gulf hurricanes (Katrina), but rarely at full
intensity.

Egad, that's a lot. Condolences.

I lower the rotator down the track on the lower end of the mast
support post if winds over about 40 MPH are predicted, usually when a
Canadian cold front passes through as a line squall. Some of the guy
lines are anchored to trees that could drop branches on them. Lowering
the antenna the rest of the way to the roof requires removing mast
tube sections from the bottom (rotator) end but running up or down the
track isn't much bother.

--jsw

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:49:59 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:


Funny you should say that. The corners of the frames were padded with
high-quality Chiwanese rubber strips and angle aluminum during
packaging for shipment to me. g
Any sign of corrosion or discoloring of the aluminum?

I had considered using those under the z plates above the Unistrut
until you mentioned it.
Well, of course, there are TONS of different "rubber" materials. I would
definitely avoid real vulcanized rubber. You can probably detect that stuff
immediately from the smell. There are all sorts of plastic, silicone, etc.
types of materials that might be fine. (Many silicone caulks release
ammonia as they cure, causes the same problem.)

You want smell? Haven't you ever smelled Chiwanese rubber? One whiff
leaves a nasty odor in your nostrils for days. I leave it outside for
2 weeks before bringing it indoors. Nasty, nasty, nasty.

I think a $15 can of LPS-3 will baste the parts well enough to prevent
much, if any, corrosion. One baggie, 24 z-plates, 24 fender washers
(strength), 48 stainless bolts, 24 stainless nuts, 24 Unistrut nuts,
16 lags, and 16 washers. Spray and swish. As the lags go in, they'll
be douched with silicone caulk. I'll put 2x3" flashing above the two
rows of Uni for good measure, too.

I might have time next week. Gotta find a helper first, though.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:51:35 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:


Galvanized fasteners are quite resistant to galvanic corrosion with
aluminum. And the steel underneath the zinc is also fairly benign with
aluminum. In fact, the aluminum will act like a sacrificial anode
against plain steel, but the activity will be very low. The zinc
barrier should hold up for a long time.

Depends on how acidic your rain is, of course. Some lightly galvanized
fittings are stripped down to the steel in a few years here.

I'm about 50 miles inland from the Pacific. The Coastal Range catches
almost all of the salt. There are no industries between me and the
coast, so my rain is pretty clean and neutral.

Hmm, is that afternoon rain puddle still out there? Nope.
My saliva is 5.75 tonight, though. Why waste a strip?

I'm curious to check it the next time it rains, though.

--
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force.
Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington