I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would have
to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

Mark out the 1/2" hole carefully, drill a pilot hole in the center, and file it
to the mark. If you have a well-lit bench and can get the workpiece into
a vise, it's easy. Take ten or twenty minutes.

In mass production, you could broach or drill it.

Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.



I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

whit3rd wrote:

If you have a well-lit bench

I have the best possible lighting, always and everywhere

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1080_.jpg

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

I'd suggest that with some sand, some durable fingernails, and months of
time, you might be able to erode a _somewhat_squarISH_ hole in a thin
sheet of aluminum.

NO tools? Really?

Lloyd

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum
would have
to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

If the tops of the fixed and moving jaws on your bench vise are the
same height you can use them as a filing guide. If not you could rig
up something, perhaps with a drill press vise or steel bar stock.

Lay out your square with a sharp scriber, drill out the middle and use
a coarse file to approach the line, then align the scribe mark with
the top of the jaws and use a safe-edged "hand" or "pillar" file to
finish cutting up to it. The tops of the jaws guide the file
perpendicular to the hole as you near the line.
http://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-Pill.../dp/B006P2XM2U

With care you should be able to file within 0.005" of the intended
size.
--jsw

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:nec9kg$nmf$1
@dont-email.me:

With care you should be able to file within 0.005" of the intended

With a bar (for sizing) the intended size of the hole, he could get it
within 0.0005"; but he said "NO tools". So a file is out, too!

Lloyd

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:04:14 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

Answer: Rent a machinist. No can do otherwise.


I'd suggest that with some sand, some durable fingernails, and months of
time, you might be able to erode a _somewhat_squarISH_ hole in a thin
sheet of aluminum.

g I'd use my ShopFox Mortising Machine and end up with a perfectly
square 1/2" hole. Many aluminum alloys aren't much tougher than wood.



NO tools? Really?

The troll gotcha, did he?

--
If you want to make your dreams come true,
the first thing you have to do is wake up!
--anon

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:04:14 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have
to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

Answer: Rent a machinist. No can do otherwise.

My high school shop teacher was a retired Swedish cabinet maker who
taught us the traditional skills, like how to hone a wood plane blade
or joint, file and set the teeth on a handsaw. Before turning us loose
on the power tools he required us to plane a block of wood square
enough to pass the sliver of light test with a try square.

While I sure do appreciate power tools I don't have to depend on them.
One of Friday's projects was filing angled slots for Tie-Wraps to
attach a large capacitor to an aluminum panel.

--jsw

Any normal human being would understand that.

Of course it isn't to be taken literally.

Take a break from the 99% off-topic trolling in this group and think
about metalworking for a minute... Or don't. I've probably researched
it thoroughly enough anyway.

As you were...



"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in . 4.170:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

I'd suggest that with some sand, some durable fingernails, and months of
time, you might be able to erode a _somewhat_squarISH_ hole in a thin
sheet of aluminum.

NO tools? Really?

Lloyd

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:30:59 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:04:14 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have
to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

Answer: Rent a machinist. No can do otherwise.

My high school shop teacher was a retired Swedish cabinet maker who
taught us the traditional skills, like how to hone a wood plane blade
or joint, file and set the teeth on a handsaw.

Ditto in my 8th grade wood and metal shops, but we didn't have the
experienced cabinetmaker to guide us, just a guy who had done wood and
metalworking non-professionally. He followed a guide and had enough
experience to guide us through the basic skill building. I loved it
all.

But with no tools, the answer is still "rent a machinist", oui?


Before turning us loose
on the power tools he required us to plane a block of wood square
enough to pass the sliver of light test with a try square.

That's the way to roll, too. Learn the basics and get the skills
before ruining yourself on power tools.


While I sure do appreciate power tools I don't have to depend on them.

I've been a Neanderthal woodworker for a long time, but the older I
get, the more I need power tools to get the precision. There is
almost no way to take 1/32 off a stick with a hand saw and keep it
square (and/or properly angled), but with a miter saw, it's a piece of
cake. Ditto adjusting angles a skosh to fit.


One of Friday's projects was filing angled slots for Tie-Wraps to
attach a large capacitor to an aluminum panel.

Cool. It's great be able to do it right and make it look good as well
as having it work well.

--
If you want to make your dreams come true,
the first thing you have to do is wake up!
--anon

Square drilling drills ... Broach is best. Router type tool won't
stand up to the wobble of the special drills.

Drill and use a square file or drill and press a square broach through.
Easy enough.

Martin

On 4/9/2016 7:11 PM, John Doe wrote:
Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.



I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

Mark out the 1/2" hole carefully, drill a pilot hole in the center, and file it
to the mark. If you have a well-lit bench and can get the workpiece into
a vise, it's easy. Take ten or twenty minutes.

In mass production, you could broach or drill it.

Or push a piece of 1/2" square steel through it with a press

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:36:21 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:nec9kg$nmf$1
:

With care you should be able to file within 0.005" of the intended

With a bar (for sizing) the intended size of the hole, he could get it
within 0.0005"; but he said "NO tools". So a file is out, too!

Lloyd

Does a rock and a piece of 1/2" thickwall tubing count as "tools"?

On 4/9/2016 7:14 PM, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would have
to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.


Jeweler's saw

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:11:01 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.

Great. You designated a square. How do you cut the 90 degree corners
with a round tool bit?

Or as you say, "don't take it literally", can the "square" have round
corners?


I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 03:19:14 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Any normal human being would understand that.

Of course it isn't to be taken literally.

Well, was it intended that the dimensions of the hole be also not
taken literally? If so just take a punch and bash a hole in the damned
thing.

Take a break from the 99% off-topic trolling in this group and think
about metalworking for a minute... Or don't. I've probably researched
it thoroughly enough anyway.

As you were...



"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in . 4.170:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

I'd suggest that with some sand, some durable fingernails, and months of
time, you might be able to erode a _somewhat_squarISH_ hole in a thin
sheet of aluminum.

NO tools? Really?

Lloyd
--

Cheers,

John B.

I never said "don't take it literally". When someone says something that
cannot be taken literally, then normal people assume it means something
less than the literal meaning.

Every square is going to have round corners. According to my research,
some sophisticated tools for cutting square holes leave rounded corners.
In my case, they can be significantly rounded, but I'm probably not
going to spend that much for this project.


John B. wrote in
:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:11:01 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.

Great. You designated a square. How do you cut the 90 degree corners
with a round tool bit?

Or as you say, "don't take it literally", can the "square" have round
corners?


I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:30:59 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:04:14 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 4:18:19 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't
have
to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.
---------------

Your subject said "with NO TOOLS". I'm not sure how you can
justify
using even a drill bit with the 'no tools' restriction.

Answer: Rent a machinist. No can do otherwise.

My high school shop teacher was a retired Swedish cabinet maker who
taught us the traditional skills, like how to hone a wood plane
blade
or joint, file and set the teeth on a handsaw.

Ditto in my 8th grade wood and metal shops, but we didn't have the
experienced cabinetmaker to guide us, just a guy who had done wood
and
metalworking non-professionally. He followed a guide and had enough
experience to guide us through the basic skill building. I loved it
all.

But with no tools, the answer is still "rent a machinist", oui?

Although I could barely qualify as a blacksmith's apprentice I've
learned about a lot of pre-industrial methods, beginning when I was 5
years old, watching the foundry men next door create replacement
castings for old textile machinery by hand-carving sand molds to
templates. Trying to apply these methods strongly motivated me to
acquire machine tools.

My machine tools are too small for some of my projects and I still
need to hand-fit some things, for example squaring the sawed end of
1-1/4" pipe that won't fit through my lathe spindle.

With no tools and no skill the answer is to pay someone who does have
them or find a hobby that's less challenging than metalworking. If
there was some easy way to shape metal precisely without the lathe and
mill that 200 years of experience have shown to be necessary and
adequate we wouldn't have spent the money to buy them. 17th century
methods get you 17th century results.

"I've been a Neanderthal woodworker for a long time, but the older I
get, the more I need power tools to get the precision."

I actually worked with Mickey Mouse once, a man who had played him for
Disney, and despite what they say he was a pretty good craftsman.

--jsw

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

I never said "don't take it literally". When someone says something that
cannot be taken literally, then normal people assume it means something
less than the literal meaning.

Every square is going to have round corners. According to my research,
some sophisticated tools for cutting square holes leave rounded corners.
In my case, they can be significantly rounded, but I'm probably not
going to spend that much for this project.


You say square and the definition of "square" is "a plane rectangle
with four equal sides and four right angles; a four-sided regular
polygon". No mention of round corners there whatsoever.

So if you have rationalized your square to be something else perhaps
you should have described your fantasy before asking how to make it.

:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:11:01 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.

Great. You designated a square. How do you cut the 90 degree corners
with a round tool bit?

Or as you say, "don't take it literally", can the "square" have round
corners?


I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.
--

Cheers,

John B.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I never said "don't take it literally". When someone says something
that
cannot be taken literally, then normal people assume it means
something
less than the literal meaning.

Every square is going to have round corners. According to my
research,
some sophisticated tools for cutting square holes leave rounded
corners.
In my case, they can be significantly rounded, but I'm probably not
going to spend that much for this project.


A file with the edge ground smooth cuts corners square enough that you
need a microscope to show otherwise.

This is what a master craftsman (not me) can do with a file:
http://pistolsmith.com/workshop/1084...-dovetail.html

--jsw

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:08:12 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

I never said "don't take it literally". When someone says something that
cannot be taken literally, then normal people assume it means something
less than the literal meaning.

Every square is going to have round corners. According to my research,
some sophisticated tools for cutting square holes leave rounded corners.
In my case, they can be significantly rounded, but I'm probably not
going to spend that much for this project.


John B. wrote in
:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:11:01 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Researching the issue... I see some ways to drill a square hole in
aluminum for hundreds of dollars.

Seems to me an inexpensive do-it-yourself way to do this slowly would be
to place a stencil pattern square over the material and then use a drill
or rotary tool with the cutting surface of the bit below the pattern.
And just move the tool around until it hacks the hole square. It might
be accurate enough if done carefully. But the rotary tool needs to be
held perpendicular while being moved around. I guess it could be done on
a rotary/router type table, while moving the material instead of the
cutting tool.

Any keywords for that sort of thing?

Thanks.

Great. You designated a square. How do you cut the 90 degree corners
with a round tool bit?

Or as you say, "don't take it literally", can the "square" have round
corners?


I wrote:

I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to
be centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would
have to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

You know, I used to give you some metalworking tips and then you got
snotty about it, so you're not going to get any more out of me. But I
can give you a piece of advice that will help you get better answers
from others.

The people on this NG know every way under the sun to make "square"
holes, and that's been a challenge for machinists for a couple of
hundred years. As soon as you said "perfectly square," the folks here
rolled their eyes, because that's a sure indicator that you have no
idea what you're talking about, and your options are limited to the
things that a tyro might be able to accomplish. That really puts some
limits on what they're going to suggest.

There is no "perfectly square." The question is, what are you going to
do with that hole, once you've cut it? Maybe it doesn't matter if the
hole you drill to start it goes over the line a bit. If that's so,
then you can use your hand drill, or whatever you have, to drill a
1/2" starter hole. If you can't, and have to drill a smaller hole,
then you're in for some heavy filing, or you're going to need a
diemaker's single-side chisel to rough out the hole.

Don't have one of those? Then you'll need a coarse double-cut square
file to do the job in maybe 10 - 20 minutes. Don't have one of those?
If you have to use a slim-taper triangular file, you're in for an hour
or so of filing, with lots of stops to use your file card and you'll
have to keep de-pinning your file, because fine-cut files are terrible
in aluminum.

Don't have those? Then, for chrissake, tell us what you're going to
use the hole for. Then the people here who have done it can tell you
what your options are. Unless they have an idea of how "clean" that
hole has to be (in other words, if it has to be free of overcut with
the drill), and how straight the sides have to be, and how square the
hole has to be, and what radius you can tolerate on the corners,
you'll go around in circles trying to figure out how to cut a square.

So, instead of just specifying a "perfectly square" hole gag!, tell
people what you're trying to do, and what the hole is for. Then you'll
get right down to some useful suggestions -- but not from me.

Are we OK now?

--
Ed Huntress

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 8:17:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

If you have a well-lit bench

I have the best possible lighting, always and everywhere

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1080_.jpg

I assume " no tools " really means no expensive tools. But even there I run into trouble. If I were doing it I would use a drill press to remove most of the material. And then would use some small files along with a machinists square to " file to fit ".

Dan

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:41:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 8:17:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

If you have a well-lit bench

I have the best possible lighting, always and everywhere

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1080_.jpg

I assume " no tools " really means no expensive tools. But even there I run into trouble. If I were doing it I would use a drill press to remove most of the material. And then would use some small files along with a machinists square to " file to fit ".

Dan

Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

I think he's stuck with Tom's suggestion of using a jeweler's saw and
finishing with a regular fine-tooth triangular file, unless he has
chisels and coarse-tooth files made for aluminum.

--
Ed Huntress

John Doe wrote:
I need to cut a 1/2" square through 1/4" aluminum. It doesn't have to be
centered, but the dimensions of the hole need to be correct.

I'd like to use a router type tool that I made, but the aluminum would have
to be perfectly square.

Any tricky way to do that?

Thanks.

No way to cut a square hole with a round bit. Not possible. But making
SQUARE holes with no rounded areas is done every day.

You have two options - Drill a round hole and use a file, chisel, broach
or EMD to make it square.
Or used a punch and die to make it.

That being said, What will this hole need to do? You may actually want a
square shaped hole with radiused corners to reduce the potential for
cracks to start.


--
Steve W.

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:02:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

--
Ed Huntress


Don't need one. Can put on some dyken and scribe the aluminum so I have a line to file to.

Dan

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:02:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

--
Ed Huntress


Don't need one. Can put on some dyken and scribe the aluminum so I have a line to file to.

Dan

And that's how I would do it. But your sentence said you'd use files
"along with a machinists square to ' file to fit,' so I was pulling
your leg about filing to fit, using a machinist's square. d8-)

If you talk to him further, tell him how to do that layout, and to
scribe diagonals to find center for drilling the hole, and about prick
punches and center punches...

If you get that far.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 12:53:37 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:02:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

--
Ed Huntress


Don't need one. Can put on some dyken and scribe the aluminum so I have a line to file to.

Dan

And that's how I would do it. But your sentence said you'd use files
"along with a machinists square to ' file to fit,' so I was pulling
your leg about filing to fit, using a machinist's square. d8-)

If you talk to him further, tell him how to do that layout, and to
scribe diagonals to find center for drilling the hole, and about prick
punches and center punches...

If you get that far.

--
Ed Huntress

I definitely said that I would use files. Along with a vise to hold the part, a well lit shop with heat, a scribe and dykem as well as a machinists square.

Dan

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:36:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 12:53:37 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:02:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

--
Ed Huntress


Don't need one. Can put on some dyken and scribe the aluminum so I have a line to file to.

Dan

And that's how I would do it. But your sentence said you'd use files
"along with a machinists square to ' file to fit,' so I was pulling
your leg about filing to fit, using a machinist's square. d8-)

If you talk to him further, tell him how to do that layout, and to
scribe diagonals to find center for drilling the hole, and about prick
punches and center punches...

If you get that far.

--
Ed Huntress

I definitely said that I would use files. Along with a vise to hold the part, a well lit shop with heat, a scribe and dykem as well as a machinists square.

Dan

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and "file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.

I know what you meant. I also know what the syntax of your sentence
said.

Jeez, I was only pulling your leg. I've been editing today, too, and
syntax is something I edit. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:00:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and "file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.


--
Ed Huntress

The file to fit came from Mil spec MILTPFO. Along with"cut to size, file to fit, and paint to match." 8-)

Dan

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:00:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and "file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.


--
Ed Huntress

The file to fit came from Mil spec MILTPFO. Along with"cut to size, file to fit, and paint to match." 8-)

Dan

That's fine. But they aren't saying "file to fit" a machinist's
square.

Here's your sentence again: 'And then would use some small files along
with a machinists square to " file to fit ".'

If that appeared in an article that I was editing, in an article for a
non-machinist, I'd correct the ambiguity by re-writing it:

"And then would use some small files, after using a machinist's square
to lay it out, filing to fit' the part you're fitting into the square
hole."

You just interjected the "along with a machinist's square" in a way
that makes it unclear what you're fitting to. It's a minor syntax
issue. I wouldn't have commented except that you left an opening to
make a wisecrack.

--
Ed Huntress

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:00:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and
"file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence
said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.


--
Ed Huntress

The file to fit came from Mil spec MILTPFO. Along with"cut to size,
file to fit, and paint to match." 8-)

Dan

It looks more authentic as MIL-TFP41.

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:00:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and "file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.


You are right, but only if one ignores that title of the thread. Anyone reading it knows the hole is in 1/4 aluminum. So it is not ambiguous to the readers of the thread. The words " along with " indicate that one is using both files and a machinist square to make the hole. To me " file to fit " involks laying out the work, trying the part to see if it fits, filing some more , retrying to see if it fits, etc.

No biggie. But I do not think there was any ambiguity.

Dan


--
Ed Huntress

The file to fit came from Mil spec MILTPFO. Along with"cut to size, file to fit, and paint to match." 8-)

Dan

That's fine. But they aren't saying "file to fit" a machinist's
square.

Here's your sentence again: 'And then would use some small files along
with a machinists square to " file to fit ".'

If that appeared in an article that I was editing, in an article for a
non-machinist, I'd correct the ambiguity by re-writing it:

"And then would use some small files, after using a machinist's square
to lay it out, filing to fit' the part you're fitting into the square
hole."

You just interjected the "along with a machinist's square" in a way
that makes it unclear what you're fitting to. It's a minor syntax
issue. I wouldn't have commented except that you left an opening to
make a wisecrack.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:35:24 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:



It looks more authentic as MIL-TFP41.

You are right. It has been some time since I have seen that mil spec referenced.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:35:24 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:



It looks more authentic as MIL-TFP41.

You are right. It has been some time since I have seen that mil
spec referenced.

Dan


Probably by me, when I was drawing schematics for the Air Force. I
should have written MIL-TFP-41.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:44:02 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:00:54 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

Yeah, you did. And you said you'd use a machinist's square and "file
to fit." Fit what? The machinist's square is what your sentence said.
You weren't filing to fit the file.


You are right, but only if one ignores that title of the thread. Anyone reading it knows the hole is in 1/4 aluminum. So it is not ambiguous to the readers of the thread. The words " along with " indicate that one is using both files and a machinist square to make the hole. To me " file to fit " involks laying out the work, trying the part to see if it fits, filing some more , retrying to see if it fits, etc.

No biggie. But I do not think there was any ambiguity.

Dan

Keep in mind that the OP may not know how a machinist's square is used
for layout in this case. In fact, unless we know the overall
configuration of his part, *we* don't know how best to lay it out. To
stick to proper sheet/plate layout practice, you'd need a surface
plate and an angle plate (or, in my case, a granite layout cube).

So, writing for wide levels of audience knowledge, I tend to be
careful about avoiding confusion. You weren't confusing us but that
would have confused someone who knows nothing about metalworking.

As you say, it's not a big deal. Nearly everyone here knows what
you're talking about. I just thought you'd realize how your syntax got
things out of order, and potentially could lead to misunderstanding.

--
Ed Huntress



--
Ed Huntress

The file to fit came from Mil spec MILTPFO. Along with"cut to size, file to fit, and paint to match." 8-)

Dan

That's fine. But they aren't saying "file to fit" a machinist's
square.

Here's your sentence again: 'And then would use some small files along
with a machinists square to " file to fit ".'

If that appeared in an article that I was editing, in an article for a
non-machinist, I'd correct the ambiguity by re-writing it:

"And then would use some small files, after using a machinist's square
to lay it out, filing to fit' the part you're fitting into the square
hole."

You just interjected the "along with a machinist's square" in a way
that makes it unclear what you're fitting to. It's a minor syntax
issue. I wouldn't have commented except that you left an opening to
make a wisecrack.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:02:01 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:41:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 8:17:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

If you have a well-lit bench

I have the best possible lighting, always and everywhere

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1080_.jpg

I assume " no tools " really means no expensive tools. But even there I run into trouble. If I were doing it I would use a drill press to remove most of the material. And then would use some small files along with a machinists square to " file to fit ".

Dan

Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

I think he's stuck with Tom's suggestion of using a jeweler's saw and
finishing with a regular fine-tooth triangular file, unless he has
chisels and coarse-tooth files made for aluminum.

One of the first suggestions the bloke got was "drill a half inch hole
and file it square".

Maybe 15 minutes of work.... if you have to look for the drill bit :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:53:29 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 9:02:09 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

--
Ed Huntress


Don't need one. Can put on some dyken and scribe the aluminum so I have a line to file to.

Dan

And that's how I would do it. But your sentence said you'd use files
"along with a machinists square to ' file to fit,' so I was pulling
your leg about filing to fit, using a machinist's square. d8-)

If you talk to him further, tell him how to do that layout, and to
scribe diagonals to find center for drilling the hole, and about prick
punches and center punches...

If you get that far.

Gee, isn't that getting pretty technical :-)

(The old fellow who was the apprentice master" when I did mine had
served a 6 year apprenticeship and said that the first year they
showed him how to use a broom and second year he got to use a file.)

For his Journeyman's "test" he made a surface plate..... by hand.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:15:33 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:02:01 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 05:41:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Saturday, April 9, 2016 at 8:17:32 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

If you have a well-lit bench

I have the best possible lighting, always and everywhere

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1080_.jpg

I assume " no tools " really means no expensive tools. But even there I run into trouble. If I were doing it I would use a drill press to remove most of the material. And then would use some small files along with a machinists square to " file to fit ".

Dan

Do you have a machinist's square that will get inside of a 1/2" hole?
g

I think he's stuck with Tom's suggestion of using a jeweler's saw and
finishing with a regular fine-tooth triangular file, unless he has
chisels and coarse-tooth files made for aluminum.

One of the first suggestions the bloke got was "drill a half inch hole
and file it square".

Maybe 15 minutes of work.... if you have to look for the drill bit :-)

Rolls-Royce had an employment test for budding machinists. They gave
him a steel plate with a square hole and a round brass bar. The test
was to file the bar square on the end so it fit into the hole, with no
light visible when it was held up to a bright light. This was in the
early 1920s.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 15:54:51 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 3:35:24 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:



It looks more authentic as MIL-TFP41.

You are right. It has been some time since I have seen that mil
spec referenced.

Dan


Probably by me, when I was drawing schematics for the Air Force. I
should have written MIL-TFP-41.

This just in: MIL-TFD-41c

--
If you want to make your dreams come true,
the first thing you have to do is wake up!
--anon