I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus26799" wrote in
message ...
I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at
my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

I do rough milling mainly by downfeeding since I can regrind the ends
of high quality used endmills more easily than the sides, and
sharpening only the end doesn't change the diameter.
http://www.amazon.com/TTC-End-Mill-G.../dp/B006MHSNAE
On my 700 lb mill it's about as fast as milling sideways because the
vertical cut creates less vibration.

Then I finish to width with light cuts that don't wear the sides of
the endmill much.

Perhaps you could use the jig borer that way to minimize side loading
on its spindle bearings.

--jsw

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

Sorry!

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/


*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.


this is all I care about, 1/2" end mill

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:13:54 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

Sorry!

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/


*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.


this is all I care about, 1/2" end mill

Ah, a big ol' Pratt & Whitney. Well, it's a hell of a machine. I'll
bet it will handle 1/2" endmills without breaking a sweat (this is a
second-hand opinion, because I've only seen them in T&D shops and I
never ran one).

That's one hell of a chunk of iron for milling like that, but if you
have the room and you're cozying up to that neat old machine, it
probably will do a neat job of it.

And you can always take in work re-boring stationary steam engines, if
the scrap business slows down. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:13:54 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

Sorry!

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/


*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.


this is all I care about, 1/2" end mill

Ah, a big ol' Pratt & Whitney. Well, it's a hell of a machine. I'll
bet it will handle 1/2" endmills without breaking a sweat (this is a
second-hand opinion, because I've only seen them in T&D shops and I
never ran one).

That's one hell of a chunk of iron for milling like that, but if you
have the room and you're cozying up to that neat old machine, it
probably will do a neat job of it.

And you can always take in work re-boring stationary steam engines, if
the scrap business slows down. d8-)


Scrap business is actually picking up again after a horrible slump.

i

On 3/10/2016 6:07 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:13:54 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

Sorry!

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/


*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.


this is all I care about, 1/2" end mill

Ah, a big ol' Pratt & Whitney. Well, it's a hell of a machine. I'll
bet it will handle 1/2" endmills without breaking a sweat (this is a
second-hand opinion, because I've only seen them in T&D shops and I
never ran one).

That's one hell of a chunk of iron for milling like that, but if you
have the room and you're cozying up to that neat old machine, it
probably will do a neat job of it.

And you can always take in work re-boring stationary steam engines, if
the scrap business slows down. d8-)

And if you were to ever wear it out, it's still scrap. Nothing to lose
by trying whatever you want.

Paul

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:55:46 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:13:54 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

On 2016-03-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:16:51 -0600, Ignoramus26799
wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i

Sorry!

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/


*Which* jig borer?

In general, the bearings in jig borers aren't up to normal milling
loads. The mass of those machines is deceptive. They'll do light
milling, but that's about it.


this is all I care about, 1/2" end mill

Ah, a big ol' Pratt & Whitney. Well, it's a hell of a machine. I'll
bet it will handle 1/2" endmills without breaking a sweat (this is a
second-hand opinion, because I've only seen them in T&D shops and I
never ran one).

That's one hell of a chunk of iron for milling like that, but if you
have the room and you're cozying up to that neat old machine, it
probably will do a neat job of it.

And you can always take in work re-boring stationary steam engines, if
the scrap business slows down. d8-)


Scrap business is actually picking up again after a horrible slump.

i

That's good. Commodities hanging in the gutter for too long are not a
good sign for the economy. I thought the slowdown in China was going
to keep the secondary metal markets in the dumps for the rest of the
world.

Speaking of which, some steel news today:

"At the National People’s Congress, Hebei Province governor Zhang
Qingwei announced he plans to cut just under 200 million of steel
production capacity by 2020, or about 60% of current production
capacity.

"By the end of 2017, the province plans to close production capacity
of 60 million tonnes of steel, 60 million tonnes of cement, 40 million
tonnes of coal, and 36 million cases of plate glass.

"In 2014, Hebei produced 185 million tonnes of crude steel and 239
million tonnes of rolled steel, 107 million tonnes of cement, and 158
million cases of plate glass. Those are equivalent to around 22% of
national steel supply (down from 25% only 2 years prior), 4.3% of
national cement supply, and 19% of national glass supply. If Hebei
even partially implements its planned targets, it will be a major
milestone in China's efforts to reduce heavy industrial overcapacity."

Holy crap! Cutting 60 million (metric) tons of steel in one year is
going to shake out somehow in world markets. That is a lot of steel.

--
Ed Huntress

Ignoramus26799 wrote:

I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. It weighs 28,500
lbs.

However, when I looked at it in person today, with my guy, it was so
unbelievably nice, I hate the thought of scrapping it. It has a DRO
and retaining nut for spindle collets.

So, a thought creeped into my mind, that perhaps I can set it up at my
shop and just use it for all manual milling or drilling. The usual
shop maintenance and repairs and whatever we do.

So, it can do milling, right?

i
Well, of course, it will handle drilling just fine. It may not have a great
range of spindle speeds. If you have the arbors for whatever spindle taper
it has (looks kind of BIG!) then it should do light milling just fine.
And, of course, it was MEANT to bore holes!

Jon

On 3/10/2016 7:16 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:
I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. ...

How much would you be giving up by not parting it out & scrapping it?
Compared to the cost of a regular mill that would do what you need?

It certainly would be cool to use this machine, but if it has a lot of
part/scrap value that has to be a major consideration.

Bob

On 2016-03-11, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 3/10/2016 7:16 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:
I bought this borer just to part it out and scrap. ...

How much would you be giving up by not parting it out & scrapping it?
Compared to the cost of a regular mill that would do what you need?

It certainly would be cool to use this machine, but if it has a lot of
part/scrap value that has to be a major consideration.

Bob


$1,800 for steel
$500 for the DRO
$300 for all handles
$300 for books (just guessing)
$800 for tooling
=================
$3,700

On 3/10/2016 10:39 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
....
Speaking of which, some steel news today:

"At the National People’s Congress, Hebei Province governor Zhang
Qingwei announced he plans to cut just under 200 million of steel
production capacity by 2020, or about 60% of current production
capacity. ...

I read recently (Bloomberg BW, I think) that China produces more steel
than the next 4 steel producing countries combined! Of course, in the
50's the US produced more steel than the rest of the world combined (it
was said). Who would have thought then what the situation would be
today? China then was an insignificant 3rd world country.

Bob

On 2016-03-11, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 3/10/2016 10:39 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...
Speaking of which, some steel news today:

"At the National People?s Congress, Hebei Province governor Zhang
Qingwei announced he plans to cut just under 200 million of steel
production capacity by 2020, or about 60% of current production
capacity. ...

I read recently (Bloomberg BW, I think) that China produces more steel
than the next 4 steel producing countries combined! Of course, in the
50's the US produced more steel than the rest of the world combined (it
was said). Who would have thought then what the situation would be
today? China then was an insignificant 3rd world country.

Bob


I recently read that in recent three years (not last three years),
China used more concrete than the U.S. in the entire 20th century.

i

On 11/03/2016 12:13 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/

That looks too nice to scrap!
Willing to ponder adapting a proper milling head in place of the boring
head? Heresy I know, but would beat scrapping it.

Jon

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 23:48:30 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 3/10/2016 10:39 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...
Speaking of which, some steel news today:

"At the National People’s Congress, Hebei Province governor Zhang
Qingwei announced he plans to cut just under 200 million of steel
production capacity by 2020, or about 60% of current production
capacity. ...

I read recently (Bloomberg BW, I think) that China produces more steel
than the next 4 steel producing countries combined! Of course, in the
50's the US produced more steel than the rest of the world combined (it
was said). Who would have thought then what the situation would be
today? China then was an insignificant 3rd world country.

Bob

Yeah, I get these industrial reports every day, and sometimes I think
I've become immune to the shocks, but, jeez, China produces roughly
half of the world's crude steel and roughly 8 or 10 times as much as
the US,, and here they're talking about knocking off close to 10% of
their production in *one year*!

It probably will be a good thing for Iggy. g

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-11, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 11/03/2016 12:13 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/

That looks too nice to scrap!
Willing to ponder adapting a proper milling head in place of the boring
head? Heresy I know, but would beat scrapping it.

It has collets and a collet nut, it should be able to hold end mills
pretty well.

i

On 2016-03-11, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 11/03/2016 12:13 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/

That looks too nice to scrap!

I agree!

What voltage does it need to power it? Do you have that voltage
in your shop? (Certainly more than a typical home shop could handle,
but you've got an industrial building. :-)

The spindle looks like it *might* be a variant of the
quick-change spindle that is on my Bridgeport BOSS-3. It takes the
Erickson 30-taper NTMB tool holders -- this one might take 40-taper or
50-taper. Anyway -- about a quarter turn of the lower ring locks up the
holder in the spindle or releases it. You would need two hook spanners
(you may have them with your list of things which came with it.)

I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely. But
since this has the DRO, it probably can be set equally precisely with
less work needed. (FWIW, I have a set of those rods and micrometer
heads -- and may someday make a V trough for using them with my lathe.

Willing to ponder adapting a proper milling head in place of the boring
head? Heresy I know, but would beat scrapping it.

Doesn't sound like an easy job, looking at the images.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2016-03-12, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-03-11, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 11/03/2016 12:13 PM, Ignoramus26799 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/huge-jig-borer/

That looks too nice to scrap!

I agree!

What voltage does it need to power it? Do you have that voltage
in your shop? (Certainly more than a typical home shop could handle,
but you've got an industrial building. :-)

240v 3 phase

The spindle looks like it *might* be a variant of the
quick-change spindle that is on my Bridgeport BOSS-3. It takes the
Erickson 30-taper NTMB tool holders -- this one might take 40-taper or
50-taper. Anyway -- about a quarter turn of the lower ring locks up the
holder in the spindle or releases it. You would need two hook spanners
(you may have them with your list of things which came with it.)

I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely. But
since this has the DRO, it probably can be set equally precisely with
less work needed. (FWIW, I have a set of those rods and micrometer
heads -- and may someday make a V trough for using them with my lathe.

It is a special taper, that I know

Willing to ponder adapting a proper milling head in place of the boring
head? Heresy I know, but would beat scrapping it.

Doesn't sound like an easy job, looking at the images.

Enjoy,
DoN.

DoN. Nichols wrote:


I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely.
This machine appears to have CNC on the X-Y axes (or else it has two DROs,
which would seem odd). The thumbwheels would set the X-Y coordinates, and
the Sony DRO would verify that it was right on target. The fact they added
the DRO might indicate the original measuring scales are full of crud and
unreliable.

Jon

On 2016-03-12, Jon Elson wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:


I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely.
This machine appears to have CNC on the X-Y axes (or else it has two DROs,
which would seem odd). The thumbwheels would set the X-Y coordinates, and
the Sony DRO would verify that it was right on target. The fact they added
the DRO might indicate the original measuring scales are full of crud and
unreliable.

Jon

I do not believe that it has any cnc capabilities. It was, however,
inspected by precision tool inspector a year ago. He checked the
scales for accuracy.

i

On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:46:12 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Jon Elson wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:


I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely.
This machine appears to have CNC on the X-Y axes (or else it has two DROs,
which would seem odd). The thumbwheels would set the X-Y coordinates, and
the Sony DRO would verify that it was right on target. The fact they added
the DRO might indicate the original measuring scales are full of crud and
unreliable.

Jon

I do not believe that it has any cnc capabilities. It was, however,
inspected by precision tool inspector a year ago. He checked the
scales for accuracy.

i

If you want to see the original P&W position-setting system (which,
IIRC, was also used by SIP), it starts on page 11 of this reprint.

Moore Special Tool used an entirely different system, based on
leadscrews lapped to something like 10 microinch accuracy (again,
IIRC):

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1412/3448.pdf

--
Ed Huntress

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:46:12 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Jon Elson wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:


I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely.
This machine appears to have CNC on the X-Y axes (or else it has two DROs,
which would seem odd). The thumbwheels would set the X-Y coordinates, and
the Sony DRO would verify that it was right on target. The fact they added
the DRO might indicate the original measuring scales are full of crud and
unreliable.

Jon

I do not believe that it has any cnc capabilities. It was, however,
inspected by precision tool inspector a year ago. He checked the
scales for accuracy.

i

If you want to see the original P&W position-setting system (which,
IIRC, was also used by SIP), it starts on page 11 of this reprint.

Moore Special Tool used an entirely different system, based on
leadscrews lapped to something like 10 microinch accuracy (again,
IIRC):

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1412/3448.pdf


Thanks, I will read it. I appreciate.

On 2016-03-12, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:46:12 -0600, Ignoramus16966
wrote:

On 2016-03-12, Jon Elson wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:


I don't see the V-troughs which would accept the measurement
rods (a set of incremental inch multiples, plus a pair of micrometers
covering something like 2"-3" which are added up to set the distance
between a stop and a moving part of the tables *very* precisely.
This machine appears to have CNC on the X-Y axes (or else it has two DROs,
which would seem odd).

[ ... ]

I do not believe that it has any cnc capabilities. It was, however,
inspected by precision tool inspector a year ago. He checked the
scales for accuracy.

Good.

If you want to see the original P&W position-setting system (which,
IIRC, was also used by SIP), it starts on page 11 of this reprint.

That is the set that I have (upper right hand corner of page
11), except that my set has only two of the longest rods, not four
(though there are the slots for the other two). It is awkward to get to
at the moment, so I can't verify what machine it was a set for -- but it
came with all the rods wrapped in rust-preservative paper. (I got it at
a hamfest perhaps twenty years ago or so.)

I still want to set up a V groove for using them in my Clausing
lathe. :-) I've used a lathe (a Sheldon, FWIW) which was so fitted.

Moore Special Tool used an entirely different system, based on
leadscrews lapped to something like 10 microinch accuracy (again,
IIRC):

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1412/3448.pdf

Thanks for this. I've downloaded it and it is printing as I
type.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---