Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters. We've sold a number of
heaters to CNC shops that use shrink-fit tool holders in their CNC
machines. We supply the RF source and they make the jig to hold the
collet and tool. So I've never seen an actual collet.

I want to make a setup for my salesmen to demonstrate shrink-fit
tooling replacement.

Several questions.

What would be a typical interference fit between collet and tool?

Would it be cheaper to buy a collet and say, end mill than to have
something made?

What should I expect to pay for a collet (are there various sizes?)
and where would I look to source one.

Are the collets standardized across the industry or does each CNC tool
maker use a different design.

Anyone have a damaged, worn-out or otherwise unusable collet they'd
like to donate to a worthy cause? Shipping and handling gladly paid,
of course.

Thanks,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:

Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters. We've sold a number of
heaters to CNC shops that use shrink-fit tool holders in their CNC
machines. We supply the RF source and they make the jig to hold the
collet and tool. So I've never seen an actual collet.

I want to make a setup for my salesmen to demonstrate shrink-fit tooling
replacement.

Several questions.

What would be a typical interference fit between collet and tool?

Would it be cheaper to buy a collet and say, end mill than to have
something made?

What should I expect to pay for a collet (are there various sizes?) and
where would I look to source one.

Are the collets standardized across the industry or does each CNC tool
maker use a different design.

Anyone have a damaged, worn-out or otherwise unusable collet they'd like
to donate to a worthy cause? Shipping and handling gladly paid, of
course.

Thanks,
John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address

I'm going to tell you what little I know, and then someone who actually
DOES know will come by and correct me.

1: I'm sure it'll be cheaper to buy the mills, but you may have to make
(or have made) your own collets. The collets will be a precision turning
inside and out -- the hole will need to be reamed, the outside ground.

I googled Shrink and Collet and got several pages, including this one:
http://www.onlineamd.com/product/TER...k-Collet-38207. It looks like
there's only one player at the moment, but I didn't spend much time.

2a: I don't know how much to pay. Judging from the page I found, lots.

2b: Yes, there are various sizes (and shapes), but it looks like there's
one standard.

2c: I don't know where to source one, but now you have a company name.

3: See 2b for part of the answer. I honestly don't know if shrinkable
collets are an industry standard -- try Google, and you may get many
questions answered.

I'm guessing, but I suspect that what you want to do is to make a really
nice video of someone using your machine to shrink a collet onto a tool.
Personally, I'd call up one of the shops that does it and ask if I can
show up with a camera and take up a few hours of their time -- there may
be enough good will there that they'd take you up on it, particularly if
you could afford to leave a spare machine behind when you left.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters. We've sold a number of
heaters to CNC shops that use shrink-fit tool holders in their CNC
machines. We supply the RF source and they make the jig to hold the
collet and tool. So I've never seen an actual collet.

I want to make a setup for my salesmen to demonstrate shrink-fit
tooling replacement.

Several questions.

What would be a typical interference fit between collet and tool?

Would it be cheaper to buy a collet and say, end mill than to have
something made?

What should I expect to pay for a collet (are there various sizes?)
and where would I look to source one.

Are the collets standardized across the industry or does each CNC tool
maker use a different design.

Anyone have a damaged, worn-out or otherwise unusable collet they'd
like to donate to a worthy cause? Shipping and handling gladly paid,
of course.

Thanks,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from... ter&_sacat=0


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On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters.

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question or is
there really no one here who knows about shrink fit tooling? C'mon
guys.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

In article ,
Neon John wrote:

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question

Few of the people left actually do metalworking - the place has become a
hallowed hall for the spewing of mostly right-wingnut political rants
and lots of folks more interested in metalworking have packed up and
left. On an average day 90+% of the posts die in my kill filter.

I do metalworking, a bit, but don't feel particularly qualified to
answer your question, since the only shrink fits I have dealt with were
bearings, and those few and far between. The only CNC tool I have uses
collets, but it's a Porter-Cable 690 router with split collets, used on
wood, not a metalworking tool at all (what might be the last vaguely
operational cable-drive shop-bot on the planet - 19 years young. I begin
to think it's time to chuck the ShopBot drive system with it's quaint
DOS/Serial interface and see if one of the "3D-Printer oriented"
arduino-based programs might be able to grok cutting rather than
extruding, as getting the upgrades from ShopBot quickly became a
treadmill of great expense I could not keep up with.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 11:09:52 AM UTC-5, Neon John wrote:

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question or is
there really no one here who knows about shrink fit tooling? C'mon
guys.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com

Not so much ****ing people off, as asking a question that is at the boundary of the news group. The R in RCM is recreational so do not be surprised if you do not get much response when you ask a professional question.

I would be a lot more help if you asked something about Atlas-L programming.

Dan

"Neon John" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters.

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question or is
there really no one here who knows about shrink fit tooling?

Not me, I don't even have digital readouts on my 50-year-old machine
tools.
--jsw

On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters. We've sold a number of
heaters to CNC shops that use shrink-fit tool holders in their CNC
machines. We supply the RF source and they make the jig to hold the
collet and tool. So I've never seen an actual collet.

I want to make a setup for my salesmen to demonstrate shrink-fit
tooling replacement.

Several questions.

What would be a typical interference fit between collet and tool?

Would it be cheaper to buy a collet and say, end mill than to have
something made?

What should I expect to pay for a collet (are there various sizes?)
and where would I look to source one.

Are the collets standardized across the industry or does each CNC tool
maker use a different design.

Anyone have a damaged, worn-out or otherwise unusable collet they'd
like to donate to a worthy cause? Shipping and handling gladly paid,
of course.

Thanks,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Greetings John,
The tools are held in a tool holder, not a collet. A collet fits
inside a collet holder of some sort and then a tool fits inside the
collet. With thermal shrink fit tool holding a tool holder is used
without a collet, the tool fits directly in the tool holder. The tool
holder will have a taper for fitting into the machine spindle. I don't
remember what the amount of interference is but it is quite small.
Over time after many cycles of heating and cooling the I.D. of a
particular tool holders will expand and so the holder starts losing
its grip. Some shrink fit tool holders use special cutters that have a
helical groove machined into the shank. This direction of the groove
causes the tool to be drawn into the holder from cutting forces trying
to cause the tool to spin in the holder. Your best bet is to look for
a tool holder on eBay if you need to buy one. If you search for a
"shrink fit tool holder" on Ebay you will see several new holders for
less than $150.00. Since they start to lose their grip over time one
of your customers may have one that they are no longer using. Even
though the grip is too weak for machining it should be good enough for
demo use.
Cheers,
Eric

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 11:09:45 -0500, Neon John wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters.

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question or is
there really no one here who knows about shrink fit tooling? C'mon
guys.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

This group is largely hobby machinists with a few active pros in the
mix. I myself repair machinery in machine shops. Of those shops..I
cant think of ANY of my clients who use shrink fit tooling in any of
their machines.

Might want to try alt.machines.cnc..there maybe someone there who uses
it.

Gunner

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On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 12:12:41 -0500, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Neon John wrote:

What? Did I **** off the group by asking an on-topic question

Few of the people left actually do metalworking - the place has become a
hallowed hall for the spewing of mostly right-wingnut political rants
and lots of folks more interested in metalworking have packed up and
left. On an average day 90+% of the posts die in my kill filter.

I do metalworking, a bit, but don't feel particularly qualified to
answer your question, since the only shrink fits I have dealt with were
bearings, and those few and far between. The only CNC tool I have uses
collets, but it's a Porter-Cable 690 router with split collets, used on
wood, not a metalworking tool at all (what might be the last vaguely
operational cable-drive shop-bot on the planet - 19 years young. I begin
to think it's time to chuck the ShopBot drive system with it's quaint
DOS/Serial interface and see if one of the "3D-Printer oriented"
arduino-based programs might be able to grok cutting rather than
extruding, as getting the upgrades from ShopBot quickly became a
treadmill of great expense I could not keep up with.)

Some of us are in the trade....though as I stated..I know no shop who
uses shrink fit

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...BoringHydPress


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thank you, Eric!!

John


On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:32:56 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:58:57 -0500, Neon John wrote:


Hey gang,

My company manufactures induction heaters. We've sold a number of
heaters to CNC shops that use shrink-fit tool holders in their CNC
machines. We supply the RF source and they make the jig to hold the
collet and tool. So I've never seen an actual collet.
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:32:56 -0800, wrote:

Your best bet is to look for
a tool holder on eBay if you need to buy one. If you search for a
"shrink fit tool holder" on Ebay you will see several new holders for
less than $150.00. Since they start to lose their grip over time one
of your customers may have one that they are no longer using. Even
though the grip is too weak for machining it should be good enough for
demo use.
Cheers,
Eric

One more question. Will the tool holder accept a regular mill bit or
are they made especially for shrink fit? If the later, what would I
look for?

Good idea to ask my customers for worn our holders. smack to the
forehead. On my immediate agenda.

Thanks again,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:39:34 -0500, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:32:56 -0800, wrote:

Your best bet is to look for
a tool holder on eBay if you need to buy one. If you search for a
"shrink fit tool holder" on Ebay you will see several new holders for
less than $150.00. Since they start to lose their grip over time one
of your customers may have one that they are no longer using. Even
though the grip is too weak for machining it should be good enough for
demo use.
Cheers,
Eric

One more question. Will the tool holder accept a regular mill bit or
are they made especially for shrink fit? If the later, what would I
look for?

Good idea to ask my customers for worn our holders. smack to the
forehead. On my immediate agenda.

Thanks again,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

There are several shrink-fit systems. Generally, they use standard
straight-shank cutters, but they have to be accurately sized.

I wrote several articles about Bilz's system years ago, but I don't
remember a lot of details. I do remember that the cutters needed to
have accurately-ground, straight shanks. And watch out if you're using
HSS cutters: They're easy to insert in one of the thermal collets, but
they can get really stuck and hard to get out, unless the heater
expands the collet (holder) *really* fast. The more recent
induction-type heat-shrinking systems typically handle HSS quite well,
if you don't linger in pulling the cutter out of the holder.

If you want to get into it, call or check the websites for Bilz,
Kennemetal, Techniks, etc.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 10:39:34 -0500, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:32:56 -0800, wrote:

Your best bet is to look for
a tool holder on eBay if you need to buy one. If you search for a
"shrink fit tool holder" on Ebay you will see several new holders for
less than $150.00. Since they start to lose their grip over time one
of your customers may have one that they are no longer using. Even
though the grip is too weak for machining it should be good enough for
demo use.
Cheers,
Eric

One more question. Will the tool holder accept a regular mill bit or
are they made especially for shrink fit? If the later, what would I
look for?

Good idea to ask my customers for worn our holders. smack to the
forehead. On my immediate agenda.

Thanks again,
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Most of the shrink fit tool holders will work with standard tooling.
If you buy a Chinese cutter the shank may not be accurate enough. I
have seen Chinese cutters with both over and under sized shanks. Like
I said in my first post there are some shrink fit tool holders that
take special shank cutters, but I think they are on the expensive end
of the spectrum. Maybe one of your customers will have a dull cutter
to give away too.
Eric