Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:57:47 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet


Here, here.

Bet there's only a few of us left that remember him.

My all time fav Teenut post is the six million dollar bionic drill
sharpener.

Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.

Robert Bastow
What IS your problem Jim??

None whatever. Life's just grand.

Glad to hear it, last thing I want is, for what should be a
professional
discussion to get out of hand and start to spoil anyone's day!

The thrust of yourself, and other, even more supercilious and arrogant
posters has been that it is impossible to properly regrind a drill
without a slew of expensive equipment.

Here you are really off base, Robert. You mis-state my position
completely. Of course one can grind
a decent drill offhand.

Then I apologise Jim!!

SOMBODY said that and, in the convolutions of this thread I had come
to believe
it was you!

(trust me..if it gets any more convoluted I will be writing nasty
missives to
myself..and so will you!)

The task becomes more complex as the
size goes down, and at some point becomes impossible without
some extra magnification. 1/8 - sure, that's easy. But I would not
bother to do the ones in the 60 thru 80 index without some help.

No disagreement..unless you HAVE to! My point is that a lot of people
on this
list have only the option of tackling it with no help, no aids, no
skill and no
practice...or NOT DOING IT! What a tragic waste!

I can't be there to help them..but at least I can give them the
confidence to
TRY..knowing that it CAN be done, It has been done, and by golly, if
that old
fart teenut can do it SO CAN I!!

(Forgive me Jim..I am not SHOUTing..just putting emphasis on the key
points!)

Anyone who wants to learn this skill should start large - and I
mean 1/2 inch and above. This is a great way to make long drills
short.

I believe I learned on a 3/4" taper shank drill..it is a lot easier to
see all
the angles and begin to understand how they work and interact.

By the way..we had a handy little dohickey to help get the drill lips
level. I
have never heard it described before..

For the morse taper shank drills from 1/4" up to about 1" diameter, we
had a
piece of 2" by 1/8" hot rolled steel strap..about 14" long. One end
was bent at
right angles, about 2" from the end to form an L shape with one 12"
upright and
a 2" horizontal. In the geometric center of this short leg was afixed
a "dead"
center..not a lathe tailstock center!!...more like a 1/2" bolt, 1/2"
long,
turned or ground to a 60 deg point (Approx...no great precision
required) and
screwed in from the under side. Thats IT..toolmaking over!

In use the inner face of the upright was coated with whitewash (Never
SAW
marking blue 'til I got in the toolroom!) The drill was ground,
freehand, on
the FACE of the wheel (not the flat side)...care being taken to keep
the POINT
angle as equal as possible on both sides..I'll tell you how to do THAT
in a
moment..

Lets do that now in fact..

Jim, You are dead right about not being able to grind a drill without
mechanical
help! Well here's how you create your own "6 Million Dollar Bionic
Darex" ;^)

Let's assume we are going to sharpen a 3/8" diameter, 2MT shank
drill..it is
about 8" long (these figures are arbitrary..I just want every one to
have the
same mental picture of what I am describing.) We approach the wheel,
which has
been dressed on its face, dead straight across with no grooves..(Ve
SHOOT anyone
ve catch putting grooves in ze drill wheel!!..No Pity..No
Prisoners..Ya!
Verdampt!)

(Sorry)...

The drill shank is held firmly in the RIGHT hand...ALL the movement
and control
is imparted by the RIGHT hand. For the purposes of drill grinding, the
left hand
could be...with benefit..a LUMP OF CLAY!!

It is from this "lump of clay" that we fashion the Bionic Darex".

Place your left hand thumb and finger tips LIGHTLY together..Relax the
other
three fingers aand let them naturally curl against the palm of your
hand. Let
the drill flute drop into the vee between thumb and fore finger and
let the tip
of the finger "Find" the curve of the flute where it fits comfortably.
The tip
of the thumb rests on the sharp junction ot the land and the flute,
about an
inch back from the drill tip.

Now...SQUEEZE HARD!!! YOUCH!...I said it would be easier if it were
clay! 8^)
Lift the drill from your fingers...see the GROOVE?...Drop the drill
back in..it
locates within a thou or two! Magic?..Bionic at least! Squeeze again
to set the
groove. You have created a customised drill guide that fits better
that that on
any machine ever built! You can relax your grip now..feel how
smoothly the
drill will ride back and forth, guided by the groove you have created
for it.

Place the knuckles of your left hand, LIGHTLY on the ginding wheel
tool rest,
and swing the drill shank, from left to right (using ONLY your right
hand) and
push the drill lengthways though that groove in your fingers back or
forth using
the groove to make the drill twist or "rifle" in your fingers. Do NOT
move your
left hand in any way..it is made of clay remember!

UNTIL....

A) The drill axis is "eyeballed" to be at half the required point
angle to the
wheel face...You can scribe or chalk reference lines on your grinder
benchtop to
help you line this up..at least untill it become almost second nature.

B) The drill axis is dropped JUUUst below horizontal. This will
ensure that
your soon to be ground drill lip will start with a "smidgin" of
cutting
clearance.

(Ideally, and certainly for a beginner, the grinder rest should be
set dead
radially to the wheel center and about half the drill diameter below
the true
center of the wheel)

C) The two cutting edges of the drill..the straight, sharp bits,
formed by the
junction of the flute and the back face (the only bit you grind),
should be
horizontally disposed..with the edge uppermost on the side closest to
your left
hand..the othe sharp bit of course, pointing downwards (Jeeze this
would be a
lot easier with a sketch pad)

This I will call the SET or START position!

NOW, move your left hand for the first, last, and ONLY time during th
is whole
exercise. GENTLY ease the cutting edge towards the spinning wheel,
carefully
maintaining all the angles and orientations of the SET position..until
the
cutting edge is JUST shy of touching the wheel. If you listen
carefully you
will hear the tone of the entrained air, whistling through the
narrowing gap.
You will hear a subtle but distinct change of tone JUST, I mean
Just...a couple
tenths of a thou BEFORE the edge touches the wheel. STOP!!! FREEZE!!
DO NOT
MOVE!!

Now, press the knuckles of your lump of clay..sorry, your left hand
FIRMLY down
onto, into and around the grinding rest..establish a "Groove" on the
back of
your hand as well as between your fingers.

We are now ready to grind, Your left hand locked to the drill and
grinding rest
is otherwise quite relaxed..letting the drill slide, twist and tilt
wherever
your right hand and the groove in your fingers tell it to go.

The actual grinding is a bit of an anticlimax.

You have previously studied a new drill point, you have read about
clearance,
and cutting angles, and rakes and......

With the RIGHT hand in control, gently, kinda, lean forward... bending
or
squeezing your arms hands and body..rather than actually moving
them..untill you
take up that last couple of tenths and the wheel begins to cut. Let
it
cut..don't force it, and dont' rush it..it really won't hurt anything
if you
take a full minute Per pass per face. YOU and your "Bionic Darex" are
totally
in control of that drill and the wheel..Forget the times when, close
to panic,
you swung the drill wildly past the wheel, hoping to get "the dirty
deed" over
with as quickly as possible.

Take your time, enjoy the moment, THINK about the shape you are trying
to
generate. Just the one face is left to "Interpretation"...every other
aspect,angle, facet, what have you...Has ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF!!
and is
locked in place under your control!

The right hand should perform a "Lower Quadrant sweep" for want of a
better
term..An observer behind you would see your hand move from about 17
minutes past
the hour on a clock face, to roughly 25 minutes past. But it isn't a
smooth arc
of a circle, more a sector of an elipse..You see, as your hand starts
to drop
slowly, you are also rotating the drill in "the groove"..the first
third of the
turn needs to maintain that very slight clearance angle on the cutting
edge, and
not increase it too rapidly.

You need the clearance to cut..But too much at that point will WEAKEN
the edge,
and cause the drill to snatch and chip...So the first part of the
rotation is
ALMOST but not quite, just as though you were grinding a straight cone
point on
the end of your drill. Only as you approach the second third, does
your right
hand start to noticably drop..kinda "Catching Up" on the rotary
motion...increasing the clearance as it does.

In the last third of the rotaion the right hand drops quite
rapidly..Thogh not
enough to catch the OTHER drill lip on the wheel..that lip is coming
around
quite rapidly by now.

Above all, take your time, if it helps, move the drill one degree at a
time, and
think ahead what shape or angle the next degree of cutting face
needs...Remember, you have control, and IT ain't going nowhere 'til
you decide.

After a pass on one face, flip the drill in your "Bionic Darex" DO
NOT MOVE
THAT LEFT HAND!!, return to SET position and repeat, the pass on the
other face.

Having done a couple of passes on each face..it is now time to check
the results
on our homemade "Optical Comparator"

(Sorry Jim I couldn't resist!!) ;^)

Rest the center hole in back end of the drill shank, on the center
point of the
"Comparator" and use, first one and then the other drill lip to scribe
a light
line on your whitewashed (OK Blue or red dyed) surface.

You will readily see if the lines coincide..if the lips are even..or
not, as the
case may be.

Lets assume they are..Now look directly DOWN on the end of the drill
to check
the clearances. HUH? How can you check radial clearance by looking it
staight
in the face? Surely you need to look at it sideways?

Well no you don't...for once all thos interacting and confusing angle
and faces
and clearances are going to work together in YOUR favor and make what
could be a
tricky bit of metrology..quite simple. While we are looking at the
end of the
drill, we will also check that the POINT ANGLE is correct too!!!

(Ok guys, leave quietly..teenut has finally lost it!!)

No really, trust me. IF you look straight down on the point of a well
sharpened, standard drill, you will see
the two cutting edges, joined by the CHISEL edge which crosses over
the web of
the drill The angle fromed by the chisel edge to each cutting edge,
should be
ABOUT 50 deg...anywhere between 40 and sixty is ok for a first
attempt. (I can
hear the purists and theorists screaming and lighting up their flame
throwers)
But believe me, get it in that ball park and your drill will CUT. If
the angle
is too steep..you don't have enough clearance...negative clearance
will give you
an angle event greater than 90 deg. Too MUCH clerance and the angle
will appear
too shallow!

While looking at the end, check the point angle, How? Look down
the axis of
the drill at the cutting edges. Are they straight? If so, your point
is pretty
close to the right angle (As designed for that drill, by its
manufacturer when
he set the helix angle and the cross section of the flute) If the
edges appear
CONCAVE the point is too flat and if they appear CONVEX, the point is
too
"Pointy"

If your drill passes all these tests, which take but a second or two
to perform,
THEN IT WILL CUT..pretty close to size, without chattering, chipping,
overheating, wandering or seizing. I guarantee it!

Hey, thats a pretty good start for the first drill you ever ground!
All it
takes now is a bit of practice for it to become second nature and
almost as easy
with a little 'un or a big 'un!

Hey guys!

My apologies for "goin'on" but If it helps just one person to pluck up
the
couragre and go hand sharpen his (or Her) first drill, by hand...

Then I hope you will bear with me.

It is late, I am tired and I am not even going to proof or spell check
this,

'night all

teenut

Karl Townsend wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:57:47 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet


Here, here.

Bet there's only a few of us left that remember him.
Yup, I remember him. It has been a long time!

(Just went to a memorial service for a cousin. I went to her wedding in
about 1968. Time does fly!)

Jon

On 01/11/2016 10:47 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:57:47 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet


Here, here.

Bet there's only a few of us left that remember him.

My all time fav Teenut post is the six million dollar bionic drill
sharpener.


The one I always remember is his treatise on finding the optimum feed
rate in horizontal milling, but it hurts to read the places where he
mentions lighting up a cigarette. Digging into my old backups, now:

Subject: Speeds and feeds horizontal milling
From: Robert Bastow
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:33:41 GMT

Brian Evans wrote:

Read with interest the discussion on feeds and speeds

Any advice from anyone who's had some horizontal milling experience?

Thanks, Brian

Milling speeds and feeds are a real can of worms..not because there aren't
readily available GUIDELINES..but simply because different people have different
(honest) opinions based upon a whole range of different experiences.

THE ONE CONSTANT FACTOR IS CUTTING SPEED IN FEET PER MINUTE..It doesn't matter
whether I am using a 1" diameter slitting saw on my lathe cross slide, or you
are running a 10" diameter x 12" long slab mill on a 60 HP Cincinnati mill..if
we are both using HSS cutters on hot rolled steel, we are both limited to the 80
to 100 surface feet per minute.

You may find it hard to believe that, during a six year apprenticeship, during
which I ran SCORES of different mills..from the teensiest Instrument Mill to 48
foot Planer Mills...I never was taught, nor did I find it necessary to apply any
"magic formulae"

But the reason for that is simple..THERE AREN'T ANY!!

The objective is to remove metal as quickly (therefore economically) as
possible. In the early days of (particularly horizontal) Mills it was common
practice for manufacturers to rate and compare them in terms of "CUBIC INCHES OF
METAL REMOVED PER MINUTE" And, believe me, some of those old slabmillers could
shift IMPRESSIVE amounts of metal.

But there are so many other variables..some you have control over..width and
depth of cut, feed per tooth, coolant, tool geometry, SHARPNESS!! etc.

And there are a whole HOST more, that you , generally, do NOT have control
over..Age and CONDITION of the machine. Size of the machine, rigidity of its
design, its dynamic behaviour under load. the part itself, its rigidity and
clamping etc etc.

Heck a Kray Mainfrain couldn't calculate all the "BEST" parameters for all the
jobs and all the machines in a large shop.

So how DID we do it? As do it we did..most Jobs were "on ticket" ...piecework!
Commensurate with meeting specs. on fit and finish..we were paid to shift metal
as fast as possible.

In reality it was nowhere as complicated as one might imagine!

Get a job ticket, go to machine..never seen it before!

Clamp down job, install cutters. Quick reference to Starrett Chart pinned in
lid of tool box (No-body figured it out in their head..the chart was quicker,
especially on a Monday morning!!) X" dia at 90 ft/min = Y rev/min. Crank the
speed change dial (on most CINCI's, Kearney & Trecker, Herbert's etc the speed
and feed changes were through crank handles on large dials.

Now set the depth and width of cut. HMMmm! In MOST cases the fastest way to
shift metal was to engage as much of the cutter as possible get as many teeth
cutting as wide and deep as possible at the same time.."Bury the Bugger" the
saying went. That way you removed more metal per tooth, per rev and were less
likely to wear the cutter out before the job was done

Limiting factors..HP..got MORE than enough. Machine rigidity..slide conditions
etc...NO IDEA..never seen the bugger before..only one way to find out though!!
What's next..the work piece..this one is sturdy enough to take some
"elbow"...Set Up..NO PROBLEM..we soon learned to fasten things down so Dynamite
wouldn't shift 'em..before tickling them with fifty plus Horsepower.

Whats left?..the FEED rate..you know, how many thou per tooth per rev..I have
absolutely NO IDEA until all the other factors start inter-acting and the whole
stage play gets into the dress rehersal.

Curtain up time, light a fresh fag and take a last swig of cold tea.

Lights, curtain.. One last check around...spindle clear, feed disengaged, SAFETY
CHECK..these machines are NOT fitted with an "OUCH" switch. No "oily rags" about
(apprentices rubbernecking) No laborer shoveling chips out of the back of the
machine. Bootlaces tied, floor clean and dry..two or three clear escape
routes..nothing to trip or fall over. Did I mention safety glasses? Safety
WHAT??

Deep breath. Concentrate. Start spindle. Coolant, GENTLY feed cutter into job BY
HAND. Feel the cut, feel the whole set up shuddering and settling into
equilibrium as the cutter digs deeper and the motor starts to push some serious
horspower into its job slowly build up the hand feed rate until the cutter is
"Buried"..In full depth and width.

Continue to gradually increase the feed rate, as every sense and instict strains
for any sign of trouble. So far so good..you figured the right starting
points..now you and the machine begin to understand each other and trust starts
to grow..We are NOT going to hurt each other or let each other down are
we!!!..Still gradually increasing the hand feed pressure..the machine, now all
the slack is taken up, all the castings have bent and bedded into unity..is
READY!! Quick check of the chips, cutter seems happy coolant flow good...You're
READY.

NOW!! Lets show them what we REALLY CAN DO!! start to crank the feed faster
and faster until you feel that first shuuder of discomfort..back off a
bit...engage power feed and crank the selector handle fast until you start to
feel the power feed catch up with and overtake your hand feed. Ease off on the
crank handle..let the machine take over..But don't let go yet..Every sense organ
is tuned in as the machine settles down to a steady pace after its quick
acceleration..everything feels, sounds, smells, good....turn up the feed another
notch..settles down..happy..turn it another...settles happy...turn it
another,,machine grunts..unhappy..turn it back...happy. You just arrived at the
CORRECT FEED PER TOOTH !!!!

Slowly you relax, letting your hands creep away from the knobs and handles..the
machine munches on..in equilibrium..chips and coolant sound like frying
bacon..machine is bunched into and happy with its job. You turn to find the
cigarette..after that first puff..has burned away. Light another. wipe your
hands..gradually your senses retreat from the machine. as it does what it does
best..shifting metal.

You have a bond of trust now. You and that Machine. It will let you know in
good time..in your secret language..if something start to go amiss. It trusts
you, to hear and respond, before any harm befalls it. You are a team now..both
doing the job you do best.

Now you realise your throat is dry!! no cold tea left, check the clock check the
job...ten minutes left "in cut", before you need to stop and replace the
workpiece.

You turn, and without a backward glance, you stride confidently toward the
canteen for a welcome "cuppa" On the way we happen to meet.."Hey Robert" you
ask "what feed rate are you using on that job?" "Haven't a clue" say I "go
check the dials..I'm off for a cuppa!!"

It may not be the answer you want Brian..But I'm afraid it's the only one I can
give you!

Happy milling.

Robert Bastow


--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:58:04 AM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:
Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet

Yeah, I remember him. One very knowledgeable fellow.

On 2016-01-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 07:57:47 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet


Here, here.

Bet there's only a few of us left that remember him.

I certainly do.

My all time fav Teenut post is the six million dollar bionic drill
sharpener.

That was a good one -- and also the one on how to set the feed
speed on a milling machine.

R.I.P. Indeed
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.

"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 2:56:58 PM UTC-5, Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

I liked the Tee-nut posts. (thanks)
I didn't follow his post on how to sharpen a drill bit
with out fancy tools... is there a video of that?

George H.

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .

--
Snag

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 1:01:03 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .

--
Snag

BTW I found his video for sharpening drills, if there are other
newbie's like me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn2VPGYA9c

The part where he bashes the drill sharpening jig and throws it in the trash is fun.

George H.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 1:01:03 PM UTC-5, Terry
Coombs wrote:
Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this
post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from
youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .

--
Snag
BTW I found his video for sharpening drills, if there are
other
newbie's like me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn2VPGYA9c

The part where he bashes the drill sharpening jig and
throws it in the trash is fun.

George H.

Here's the link to all of his shop videos. Lots of info
there.

http://www.neme-s.org/Tubalcain/machine_shop_tips.htm

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:00:59 -0600, "Terry Coombs" wrote:

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .
-- - - - - - - - - - -
I didn't either. . . Something funny here, I thought Robert (Tee-Nut) passed in 2001. The
TubalCane youtube was posted in 2010.

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."

The above posting dates lead me to question Tee-Nut as TubalCane.

Wouldn't mind at all if someone proves me wrong though. I enjoy TubalCane's videos.


Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:14:00 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:00:59 -0600, "Terry Coombs" wrote:

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .
-- - - - - - - - - - -
I didn't either. . . Something funny here, I thought Robert (Tee-Nut) passed in 2001. The
TubalCane youtube was posted in 2010.

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."

The above posting dates lead me to question Tee-Nut as TubalCane.

Wouldn't mind at all if someone proves me wrong though. I enjoy TubalCane's videos.


Bob
rgentryatozdotnet
There were two people who involved in metalworking who published, in
one form or another, as Tubal Cane. One was Robert Bastow, AKA Tee Nut
Eric

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 4:14:10 PM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."


Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

My favourite sage advice was about owning a business or owning a job. I have been involved with several people who talked about having a business, but really just wanted to own their job.

Dan

"Phil Kangas" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 1:01:03 PM UTC-5, Terry
Coombs wrote:
Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this
post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from
youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .

--
Snag
BTW I found his video for sharpening drills, if there
are other
newbie's like me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqn2VPGYA9c

The part where he bashes the drill sharpening jig and
throws it in the trash is fun.

George H.

Here's the link to all of his shop videos. Lots of info
there.

http://www.neme-s.org/Tubalcain/machine_shop_tips.htm


This last link was put together by Errol Groff who used to
post
here. I wonder what has happened to him. He was a metal shop
instructor somewhere. Another old timer gone? phil k

wrote:
My favourite sage advice was about owning a business or owning a job.
I have been involved with several people who talked about having a
business, but really just wanted to own their job.

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

wrote:
There were two people who involved in metalworking who published, in
one form or another, as Tubal Cane. One was Robert Bastow, AKA Tee Nut
Eric

OK , it appears that the Logan Lathe QCGB repair videos I watched were NOT
by Tee Nut . I was afraid to criticize those because Tee Nut is held in such
high esteem here ... and I was not impressed . He had the usual crashed
carraige syndrome where the last 16/32 gear pair (left side) had stripped
the 16t section . Logan wants a handsome price for replacements , and
they're worth it - to someone who can't make them in their own shop (I can
and have) . He ended up buying a gear that needed modification but did work
in the end , but bitched and whined thru the whole project .
Not at all what I'd have expected from Tee Nut , based on what I've read
here about him .
--
Snag

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:11:58 -0800, wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:14:00 -0800, Bob Gentry wrote:

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:00:59 -0600, "Terry Coombs" wrote:

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .
-- - - - - - - - - - -
I didn't either. . . Something funny here, I thought Robert (Tee-Nut) passed in 2001. The
TubalCane youtube was posted in 2010.

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."

The above posting dates lead me to question Tee-Nut as TubalCane.

Wouldn't mind at all if someone proves me wrong though. I enjoy TubalCane's videos.


Bob
rgentryatozdotnet
There were two people who involved in metalworking who published, in
one form or another, as Tubal Cane. One was Robert Bastow, AKA Tee Nut
Eric
- - - - - - - -
The day hasen't been a total loss! I learned something!! :-)

Thanks Eric!

Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

On 2016-01-13, Bob Gentry wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:00:59 -0600, "Terry Coombs" wrote:

Phil Kangas wrote:
"Tom Gardner"
wrote in message
On 1/11/2016 11:59 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Had to go look it up. Enjoy if you don't know this post.


Thanks Karl, I lost it long ago.


Here's the link to his page. Lots to enjoy here!

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222

Huh , I didn't know that Tee-nut was Tubal Caine from youtube ... I
subscribed to his channel .
-- - - - - - - - - - -
I didn't either. . . Something funny here, I thought Robert (Tee-Nut) passed in 2001. The
TubalCane youtube was posted in 2010.

When Robert first started posting on rec.crafts.metalworking, he
posted under the name Tubal Cain -- which was previously a pen name used
by a prolific writer on model engineering in the UK. He was no longer
living, and Robert thought it was honoring him, but some took offense,
so he changed his posting name to Tee-Nut.

Someone else has started using the Tubal Cain name for web based
videos, apparently. Probably similar intentions.

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."

The above posting dates lead me to question Tee-Nut as TubalCane.

Well .. he *was* *a* Tubal Cain for a short while, but not this
one. :-)

Wouldn't mind at all if someone proves me wrong though. I enjoy TubalCane's videos.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage, but the business does not make any money above the amount to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Owning a business is having a business that makes money over and above just getting by.

In my case I worked with a guy building houses, but he did not really want to grow. He talked of growing the business, but really just wanted to build one house at a time and have a job where he could control everything. He went bankrupt. I lost money.

The other one was a guy making fishing rod blanks. He interviewed my son and was going to hire him, but the Sunday evening before the Monday when my son was to start work, he called me and asked me to break the news to my son that he had changed his mind. He never employed anyone other than his wife. He had a government pension and just wanted to have job where he did not have any pressure.

Tee Nut on the other hand bought a machine shop, bought some up to date machines, and was developing a rifle as a product. He was working at having a machine shop , but not a shop where he worked as a machinist.

Dan

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:08:31 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage, but the business does not make any money above the amount to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Owning a business is having a business that makes money over and above just getting by.

From an investment standpoint, it's sometimes called "buying yourself
a job."

--
Ed Huntress



In my case I worked with a guy building houses, but he did not really want to grow. He talked of growing the business, but really just wanted to build one house at a time and have a job where he could control everything. He went bankrupt. I lost money.

The other one was a guy making fishing rod blanks. He interviewed my son and was going to hire him, but the Sunday evening before the Monday when my son was to start work, he called me and asked me to break the news to my son that he had changed his mind. He never employed anyone other than his wife. He had a government pension and just wanted to have job where he did not have any pressure.

Tee Nut on the other hand bought a machine shop, bought some up to date machines, and was developing a rifle as a product. He was working at having a machine shop , but not a shop where he worked as a machinist.

Dan

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 5:13:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 4:14:10 PM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:

Janna, Roberts daugnter, posted on 1/11/2011 the following. . .

"Thanks to you all for remembering teenut again this year. He
obviously made a big impact on a lot of lives with his contributions
here, and it means so much to me to see that he's not been forgotten,
10 years on.

I recently stumbled upon the archive of all of his posts that someone
here took the time to compile, and realised that he'd interspersed his
technical posts on metalworking with A LOT of sage advice and humour.
I wish I'd read it all earlier, but it really gave me some insights
into who my father was."


Bob
rgentryatozdotnet

My favourite sage advice was about owning a business or owning a job. I have been involved with several people who talked about having a business, but really just wanted to own their job.

Dan

Awesome! That's me, I just want to own my job... not possible.

George H.

On 1/13/2016 7:07 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
When Robert first started posting on rec.crafts.metalworking, he
posted under the name Tubal Cain -- which was previously a pen name used
by a prolific writer on model engineering in the UK. He was no longer
living, and Robert thought it was honoring him, but some took offense,
so he changed his posting name to Tee-Nut.

Someone else has started using the Tubal Cain name for web based
videos, apparently. Probably similar intentions.


Thanks - that makes sense. The idea that the Tubal Cain videos were Tee
Nut's did not.

Bob

wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage,
but the business does not make any money above the amount
to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Yes. And the question was - what's wrong with that?


Owning a business is having a business that makes money
over and above just getting by.

Even if the only employee is the owner it
still counts as a business as far as the law
is concerned.

Are you saying that making money off of the labor
of someone else should be regarded as morally
superior to making money exclusively off your
own labor?

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 07:58:42 -0600, jim "
wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage,
but the business does not make any money above the amount
to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Yes. And the question was - what's wrong with that?


Owning a business is having a business that makes money
over and above just getting by.

Even if the only employee is the owner it
still counts as a business as far as the law
is concerned.

Are you saying that making money off of the labor
of someone else should be regarded as morally
superior to making money exclusively off your
own labor?

Not superior at all, but don't ask for an 'investment' and then give
the potential investor a blank look when asked how they get their
money back..

--sp




--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Microchip link for 2015 Masters in Phoenix: http://tinyurl.com/l7g2k48

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 07:58:42 -0600, jim "
wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage,
but the business does not make any money above the amount
to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Yes. And the question was - what's wrong with that?


Owning a business is having a business that makes money
over and above just getting by.

Even if the only employee is the owner it
still counts as a business as far as the law
is concerned.

Are you saying that making money off of the labor
of someone else should be regarded as morally
superior to making money exclusively off your
own labor?

Not superior at all, but don't ask for an 'investment' and then give
the potential investor a blank look when asked how they get their
money back..

i don't know what that has to do with anything,
but perhaps there was a misunderstanding and
what was being asked for was charitable donation.

On 1/14/2016 5:58 AM, jim wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-5,
wrote:

And what is wrong with owning their job??

I assume owning your job means becoming a
independent contractor instead of
a hired employee.

It really means having a business that provides a wage,
but the business does not make any money above the amount
to pay the owners wages and pay on the capital invested.

Yes. And the question was - what's wrong with that?


Owning a business is having a business that makes money
over and above just getting by.

Even if the only employee is the owner it
still counts as a business as far as the law
is concerned.

Are you saying that making money off of the labor
of someone else should be regarded as morally
superior to making money exclusively off your
own labor?

It certainly shouldn't be regarded as "exploitation", that's for sure.

Assuming the business is viable, the business owner and the employee
both benefit from the employer/employee relationship. This goes without
saying.

On 01/14/2016 1:02 PM, wrote:
....

I am saying that there is a difference between owning your job and
having a business.

....

http://www.amazon.com/The-SAIC-Solution-Employee-Owned-Technology/dp/0470097523/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

--

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 5:13:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:

My favourite sage advice was about owning a business or owning a job. I have been involved with several people who talked about having a business, but really just wanted to own their job.

I guess, then, that I have been paying all these business taxes for nothing all these years.

I have fought tooth & nail to keep my business small for the past 32 years. I have turned down large & meaty jobs and offers of partnerships & buyouts.. OTOH, my house is paid for, I owe no debts. I have money in the bank. I don't buy what I can't pay for in cash. This drives bankers crazy.

Twice, over the years, I have had employees. The stress was simply not worth it to me. Every piece of work that goes out of here has my name and reputation on it, and I'll be damned if someone else is going to screw that up. So now, I use part-time help and contractors when I need them, and you can bet I go over every bit of the work they do. And my customers are overjoyed..

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 7:01:06 PM UTC-5, rangerssuck wrote:


What Dan doesn't seem to get is that the self-employed work their butts off to be ... employed. I know a LOT of people who have been laid off from their jobs at "businesses." Not me. I do pay unemployment tax on my salary, but for the life of me, I can't imagine how I'd ever collect on it. I've watched plenty of other companies fall by the wayside while I've just chugged along in my little shop - contracting for big customers and small ones, always paying my
bills on time.

I do understand that. I have been there and done that. My butt has been worked hard enough that my pants tend to fall off. I wish I could find Tee Nuts post about businesses versus owning a job. He did much better at explaining the differences.

Dan

On 01/15/2016 8:00 AM, wrote:
....

... I wish I could
find Tee Nuts post about businesses versus owning a job. He did much
better at explaining the differences.


Seems to me from the discussion here (but not having seen the original
either) it's a philosophical viewpoint rather than an actual one and
folks here are confounding the two viewpoints...

$0.02, im(ns)ho, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 9:21:57 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

Seems to me from the discussion here (but not having seen the original
either) it's a philosophical viewpoint rather than an actual one and
folks here are confounding the two viewpoints...

$0.02, im(ns)ho, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

It is a philosophical viewpoint , but it ends up affecting the actual decisions about the business.

Dan

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 10:45:58 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 9:21:57 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

Seems to me from the discussion here (but not having seen the original
either) it's a philosophical viewpoint rather than an actual one and
folks here are confounding the two viewpoints...

$0.02, im(ns)ho, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

It is a philosophical viewpoint , but it ends up affecting the actual decisions about the business.

Dan

The average sole proprietorship in the US has invested $30,000 in his
or her business. The average *profitable* sole proprietorship returns
$14,000/yr. to its owner (just over $11,000 to the average sole
proprietorship, including those that are not profitable).

That's buying yourself a very low-paying job. And the money they've
bought it with usually is borrowed.

These figures come from the Small Business Administration.

--
Ed Huntress

On 01/15/2016 1:00 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
....

The average sole proprietorship in the US has invested $30,000 in his
or her business. The average *profitable* sole proprietorship returns
$14,000/yr. to its owner (just over $11,000 to the average sole
proprietorship, including those that are not profitable).

That's buying yourself a very low-paying job. And the money they've
bought it with usually is borrowed.

These figures come from the Small Business Administration.

I'm sure there's no way to winnow out the deliberate "loss-leader" hobby
"businesses" from those statistics but I strongly suspect they skew them
drastically for folks actually making a living off theirs.

Also wonder how many are franchisees of some outfit? That's a pretty
sure way to give somebody else the money, too...

--

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:08:12 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 01/15/2016 1:00 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...

The average sole proprietorship in the US has invested $30,000 in his
or her business. The average *profitable* sole proprietorship returns
$14,000/yr. to its owner (just over $11,000 to the average sole
proprietorship, including those that are not profitable).

That's buying yourself a very low-paying job. And the money they've
bought it with usually is borrowed.

These figures come from the Small Business Administration.

I'm sure there's no way to winnow out the deliberate "loss-leader" hobby
"businesses" from those statistics but I strongly suspect they skew them
drastically for folks actually making a living off theirs.

Also wonder how many are franchisees of some outfit? That's a pretty
sure way to give somebody else the money, too...

Another likely distortion in the numbers is the fact that once a sole
proprietorship starts making money there are incentives to operate
instead as an S-corp. I've "owned my jobs" for 35 years and have
operated as a sole proprietorship for only short periods of time at
the beginnings of new ventures.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 20:46:03 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

buying yourself
I am not having much luck searching for the post in question among the
2300+ pages of postings I have on file, 1998 - 2001
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 17:14:16 -0800 (PST), Garrett Fulton
wrote:

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:58:04 AM UTC-5, Bob Gentry wrote:
Once again I lift my morning glass of milk to your memory.

R.I.P.
rgentryatozdotnet

Yeah, I remember him. One very knowledgeable fellow.

Hear Hear!!