I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 02:21:01 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Aluminum aircraft wings have been bonded with epoxy for 40 years.
You're not likely to beat it.

But preparation, resin characteristics, and joint loading make it a
complicated issue. It ain't like gluing the paper animals in a kid's
school notebook.

--
Ed Huntress

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:21:33 PM UTC-8, John Doe wrote:
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Hotmelt glue, of course; a zinc/aluminum alloy, called 'aluminum solder'.
Surface prep, and positioning/holding while the glue is liquid, are the big problems.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

Not sure.
I was introduced to the stuff 10-12 years ago.
A photographer I know was having large (3'x4') prints mounted on 12g
aluminum sheets and creating a standoff and mounting system by gluing 3/4"
square extrusions to the back. The sign company that was doing the work
didn't want to do the fiddly bit so they told her what glue to use and she
gave it to me.

I called an engineer at the company and asked him what sort of prep I needed
to do and he said "Don't worry about it. The stuff is specifically designed
to work with dirty metal. As long as it ain't greasy or dusty, it'll stick
it together."

About a year later, I used the leftover glue (technically out of date) to
put together some frames out of 1 3/4" anodized angle for another client.
Simply cut them square, lapped one leg over the other and glued a short
piece of angle an the inside angle that didn't lap.

I was going to add rivets, but after I did a 2 ft sq. test piece, I decided
the rivets would be a waste of time.

I still have the test piece. A decade later, you can still sit on it and
rock back and forth.

I have no problem recommending their products to anyone.

The adhesive does give off a strong sickly sweet smell when it is curing.
Have ventilation handy.

Paul K. Dickman

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:41:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

Not sure.
I was introduced to the stuff 10-12 years ago.
A photographer I know was having large (3'x4') prints mounted on 12g
aluminum sheets and creating a standoff and mounting system by gluing 3/4"
square extrusions to the back. The sign company that was doing the work
didn't want to do the fiddly bit so they told her what glue to use and she
gave it to me.

I called an engineer at the company and asked him what sort of prep I needed
to do and he said "Don't worry about it. The stuff is specifically designed
to work with dirty metal. As long as it ain't greasy or dusty, it'll stick
it together."

About a year later, I used the leftover glue (technically out of date) to
put together some frames out of 1 3/4" anodized angle for another client.
Simply cut them square, lapped one leg over the other and glued a short
piece of angle an the inside angle that didn't lap.

I was going to add rivets, but after I did a 2 ft sq. test piece, I decided
the rivets would be a waste of time.

I still have the test piece. A decade later, you can still sit on it and
rock back and forth.

I have no problem recommending their products to anyone.

The adhesive does give off a strong sickly sweet smell when it is curing.
Have ventilation handy.

Paul K. Dickman

It must contain an etchant, or it creates its own conversion coating.
Otherwise, you're just gluing to a very weak layer of aluminum oxide.

I'll have to look into that one.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:41:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even
with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

Not sure.
I was introduced to the stuff 10-12 years ago.
A photographer I know was having large (3'x4') prints mounted on 12g
aluminum sheets and creating a standoff and mounting system by gluing 3/4"
square extrusions to the back. The sign company that was doing the work
didn't want to do the fiddly bit so they told her what glue to use and she
gave it to me.

I called an engineer at the company and asked him what sort of prep I
needed
to do and he said "Don't worry about it. The stuff is specifically
designed
to work with dirty metal. As long as it ain't greasy or dusty, it'll stick
it together."

About a year later, I used the leftover glue (technically out of date) to
put together some frames out of 1 3/4" anodized angle for another client.
Simply cut them square, lapped one leg over the other and glued a short
piece of angle an the inside angle that didn't lap.

I was going to add rivets, but after I did a 2 ft sq. test piece, I
decided
the rivets would be a waste of time.

I still have the test piece. A decade later, you can still sit on it and
rock back and forth.

I have no problem recommending their products to anyone.

The adhesive does give off a strong sickly sweet smell when it is curing.
Have ventilation handy.

Paul K. Dickman

It must contain an etchant, or it creates its own conversion coating.
Otherwise, you're just gluing to a very weak layer of aluminum oxide.

I'll have to look into that one.

--
Ed Huntress

Here's a clip from a Dow paper on advancements in acrylic adhesives


The earlier "first generation" acrylics and the subsequent "second
generation" acrylics had certain
limitations, especially in metal bonding capability owing to limitations in
resistance to elevated
temperature exposure and subsequent resistance to harsh or corrosive
environments. As reviewed by
Damico (1990), the primary improvements in adhesives based on MMA monomer in
the 1980's
involved improvements in the ability of these products to bond as-received
metals, especially
aluminum steel and stainless steel, with little or no surface preparation.
The primary enabling factor
was the incorporation of phosphoric acid derivatives of methacrylate
monomers that chemically
interact with metal oxide surfaces to strengthen the normally weak
interfacial layer between the
adhesive and the base metal and to protect it from corrosive attack in harsh
environmental conditions
(Zalucha et al. 1980)

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

Paul K. Dickman

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 11:53:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:41:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even
with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

Not sure.
I was introduced to the stuff 10-12 years ago.
A photographer I know was having large (3'x4') prints mounted on 12g
aluminum sheets and creating a standoff and mounting system by gluing 3/4"
square extrusions to the back. The sign company that was doing the work
didn't want to do the fiddly bit so they told her what glue to use and she
gave it to me.

I called an engineer at the company and asked him what sort of prep I
needed
to do and he said "Don't worry about it. The stuff is specifically
designed
to work with dirty metal. As long as it ain't greasy or dusty, it'll stick
it together."

About a year later, I used the leftover glue (technically out of date) to
put together some frames out of 1 3/4" anodized angle for another client.
Simply cut them square, lapped one leg over the other and glued a short
piece of angle an the inside angle that didn't lap.

I was going to add rivets, but after I did a 2 ft sq. test piece, I
decided
the rivets would be a waste of time.

I still have the test piece. A decade later, you can still sit on it and
rock back and forth.

I have no problem recommending their products to anyone.

The adhesive does give off a strong sickly sweet smell when it is curing.
Have ventilation handy.

Paul K. Dickman

It must contain an etchant, or it creates its own conversion coating.
Otherwise, you're just gluing to a very weak layer of aluminum oxide.

I'll have to look into that one.

--
Ed Huntress

Here's a clip from a Dow paper on advancements in acrylic adhesives


The earlier "first generation" acrylics and the subsequent "second
generation" acrylics had certain
limitations, especially in metal bonding capability owing to limitations in
resistance to elevated
temperature exposure and subsequent resistance to harsh or corrosive
environments. As reviewed by
Damico (1990), the primary improvements in adhesives based on MMA monomer in
the 1980's
involved improvements in the ability of these products to bond as-received
metals, especially
aluminum steel and stainless steel, with little or no surface preparation.
The primary enabling factor
was the incorporation of phosphoric acid derivatives of methacrylate
monomers that chemically
interact with metal oxide surfaces to strengthen the normally weak
interfacial layer between the
adhesive and the base metal and to protect it from corrosive attack in harsh
environmental conditions
(Zalucha et al. 1980)

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

Paul K. Dickman

AHA! So it's built-in conversion coating chemistry. Phosphoric-acid
anodizing (PAA) is the conversion coating they have used on aluminum
for adhesive bonding, for the past 50 years or so. That's what they
always used on epoxy-bonded aircraft structures and skins. Maybe they
still do.

Thanks, Paul. That's really good stuff to know if you bond metal
together with adhesives.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 11:53:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:41:05 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:13:14 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even
with
the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing I've
ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

Paul K. Dickman

I don't know that glue, but the properties look awfully good,
especially for use in a small shop without any equipment. It sounds
like it's formulated to give good peel strength, which is very
important in any metal-to-metal bonding.

I'd like to know how they get away with an aluminum prep that just
amounts to wiping with isoprpyl alcohol.

--
Ed Huntress

Not sure.
I was introduced to the stuff 10-12 years ago.
A photographer I know was having large (3'x4') prints mounted on 12g
aluminum sheets and creating a standoff and mounting system by gluing 3/4"
square extrusions to the back. The sign company that was doing the work
didn't want to do the fiddly bit so they told her what glue to use and she
gave it to me.

I called an engineer at the company and asked him what sort of prep I
needed
to do and he said "Don't worry about it. The stuff is specifically
designed
to work with dirty metal. As long as it ain't greasy or dusty, it'll stick
it together."

About a year later, I used the leftover glue (technically out of date) to
put together some frames out of 1 3/4" anodized angle for another client.
Simply cut them square, lapped one leg over the other and glued a short
piece of angle an the inside angle that didn't lap.

I was going to add rivets, but after I did a 2 ft sq. test piece, I
decided
the rivets would be a waste of time.

I still have the test piece. A decade later, you can still sit on it and
rock back and forth.

I have no problem recommending their products to anyone.

The adhesive does give off a strong sickly sweet smell when it is curing.
Have ventilation handy.

Paul K. Dickman

It must contain an etchant, or it creates its own conversion coating.
Otherwise, you're just gluing to a very weak layer of aluminum oxide.

I'll have to look into that one.

--
Ed Huntress

Here's a clip from a Dow paper on advancements in acrylic adhesives


The earlier "first generation" acrylics and the subsequent "second
generation" acrylics had certain
limitations, especially in metal bonding capability owing to limitations in
resistance to elevated
temperature exposure and subsequent resistance to harsh or corrosive
environments. As reviewed by
Damico (1990), the primary improvements in adhesives based on MMA monomer in
the 1980's
involved improvements in the ability of these products to bond as-received
metals, especially
aluminum steel and stainless steel, with little or no surface preparation.
The primary enabling factor
was the incorporation of phosphoric acid derivatives of methacrylate
monomers that chemically
interact with metal oxide surfaces to strengthen the normally weak
interfacial layer between the
adhesive and the base metal and to protect it from corrosive attack in harsh
environmental conditions
(Zalucha et al. 1980)

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

Paul K. Dickman

Whateve Grumman used on the Yankee was almost adequate- - -

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote:

I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even
with the surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't
even good as superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing
I've ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

My LORD! If it works significantly better than superglue, I will
kick myself for not asking years ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LORD-406-19-...em35e311 a507

Twelve bucks for 1 1/2 ounces is a lot more than Gorilla Glue but
it's little more than Loctite superglue.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote:

I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even
with the surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't
even good as superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Lord 406/19 a two part acrylic.

a lot more expensive than super glue, but hands down the best thing
I've ever used for aluminum.

with intelligent joint design, you could assemble bookshelves with the
stuff.

My LORD! If it works significantly better than superglue, I will
kick myself for not asking years ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LORD-406-19-...em35e311 a507

Twelve bucks for 1 1/2 ounces is a lot more than Gorilla Glue but
it's little more than Loctite superglue.


It's the cat's pajamas.

It has a 4-1 mix ratio, so you need a applicator gun with a 4-1 plunger.

You can probably manually squeeze it out accurate enough to try out your
first tube, but the stuff starts stiffening up pretty fast and the ratio is
really important. The applicator gun will be essential to getting
consistently good results.

Paul K. Dickman

On 1/18/2015 6:27 PM, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
...
It has a 4-1 mix ratio, so you need a applicator gun with a 4-1 plunger.

You can probably manually squeeze it out accurate enough to try out your
first tube, but the stuff starts stiffening up pretty fast and the ratio is
really important. ...

For proportioning small amounts of epoxy, I use a 500g scale. Reads to
..1g, so it's really easy to get it right.

It's also useful for mixing just the right amount. For example, I have
some West System epoxy that I occasionally use as a sealer. I know the
coverage in sq ft per ounce and it mixes 5 to 1, so it's easy to weigh
out hardener as 1/6 of the total and resin as 5/6. I can mix up what I
need and no more (I hate wasting that stuff).

Bob

On 18-Jan-15 10:21 AM, John Doe wrote:
I do a lot with 6061 aluminum, without welding.

I'm expert at superglue. It's okay. Been trying Gorilla Glue. Even with the
surfaces sanded and clamped for 24 hours, seems it isn't even good as
superglue. Maybe I haven't given it enough effort?

What's the best glue for aluminum?

Thanks.




Look at Sika brand adhesives. They are used in the motor body building
industry for sticking aluminium panels on to trucks/buses/cars.

Maybe Sika 291

It sticks very well, water proof and very strong. Price is the same as
the usual RTV adhesives etc.

Circa 1986, Armstrong A-12 was good stuff. Last time I looked they still
made it, though it would not be shocking if there's been better stuff
made in the past 30 years. Can vary the mix to vary the hard/flex
characteristics. Heat will speed the cure.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 18:56:08 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 1/18/2015 6:27 PM, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
...
It has a 4-1 mix ratio, so you need a applicator gun with a 4-1 plunger.

You can probably manually squeeze it out accurate enough to try out your
first tube, but the stuff starts stiffening up pretty fast and the ratio is
really important. ...

For proportioning small amounts of epoxy, I use a 500g scale. Reads to
.1g, so it's really easy to get it right.

It's also useful for mixing just the right amount. For example, I have
some West System epoxy that I occasionally use as a sealer. I know the
coverage in sq ft per ounce and it mixes 5 to 1, so it's easy to weigh
out hardener as 1/6 of the total and resin as 5/6. I can mix up what I
need and no more (I hate wasting that stuff).

Bob

When I need to mix West System epoxy in batches smaller than what the
pumps will do I load it into 60ml syringes and meter it by the syringe
graduations. Outdated boxes of either Luer lock or irrigation syringes
are cheap on ebay.

--
Ned Simmons