On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

On 10/17/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

My MOT spotwelder:

http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf

On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 19:21:49 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 10/17/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

My MOT spotwelder:

http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf


NICELY DONE!! Bravo!!

Saved for a project later this winter!!

Gunner, who gave away a American 45KVA spot welder 6 months
ago...didnt have enough power to run it (included chiller)




"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

Bob Engelhardt wrote in
:

On 10/17/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is
from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am
planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power
and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with
MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

My MOT spotwelder:

http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf

There's an easier way to build one of these provided the transformers are
very similar. Line up the transformers so you can see straight through
the apertures the seconaries were removed from and use a one turn winding
through both cores, which can simply be a U shaped piece of aluminium or
copper. This puts the secondaries in series so they no longer need to be
two turn. If the output voltage is negligable, one of the primaries
needs to be reversed.

I would suggest varnish soaked cartridge paper as insulation where the
winding goes through each core. Paint alone is a bit risky on the
corners.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On 10/17/2014 7:21 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 10/17/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from
the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to
run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster
welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The
high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

My MOT spotwelder:

http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf


Brilliant! (just watched a Harry Potter movie)

My MOT spotwelder:
http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf

Very nicely done.

A long time ago, I worked in a shop where the products were housed in deep-drawn steel cans. The covers were soldered in place with a big soldering iron. To open them for repairs, they were clamped between carbon blocks connected to a rather huge filament transformer.

I was wondering whether a similar setup could work for the OP, with the MOT clamped to the assembly near the braze area. Resistance, rather than induction heating.

On 10/20/2014 9:35 AM, rangerssuck wrote:

My MOT spotwelder:
http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/MOT...rPrintable.pdf

Very nicely done.

A long time ago, I worked in a shop where the products were housed in deep-drawn steel cans. The covers were soldered in place with a big soldering iron. To open them for repairs, they were clamped between carbon blocks connected to a rather huge filament transformer.

I was wondering whether a similar setup could work for the OP, with the MOT clamped to the assembly near the braze area. Resistance, rather than induction heating.

Nice Job.
I built a single transformer 120V one for welding battery tabs.
Repeatability was horrible until I implemented a cycle counter
that turned on the SSR synchronously at zero crossing and did full
multiple cycles of AC. Solved the core saturation issues too.
Takes about six cycles to weld a battery tab.

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding..

As a result, welding can cause skin diseases and even cancer if you don't have the right wear (or exposure).

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.


As a result, welding can cause skin diseases and even cancer if you don't have the right wear (or exposure).

--
Ed Huntress

On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.

On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:05:01 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.

The infrared from normal arc welding tails off to nothing, or nearly
nothing, by around 800 nm. You are not "cooking yourself" when you
weld. Infrared at the deep end can heat your skin, but not
dangerously, unless your nerves are dead and you can't feel it. The
microwaves, if any, are too weak at that point to do anything.

The danger in welding comes from UV B and UV C, with some danger from
the extremely brilliant visible light (possibility of cataracts and
conjunctivitis sp?) The UV produces burns to the eyes -- retinas and
lenses -- and to the skin.

--
Ed Huntress

On 10/23/2014 2:05 PM, Richard wrote:
On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated
around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil,
say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1
drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges.
I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane
torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According
to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler
metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is
from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am
planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power
and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with
MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while
you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.
That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.

Martin

On 10/23/2014 10:38 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 10/23/2014 2:05 PM, Richard wrote:
On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered
from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated
around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil,
say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1
drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges.
I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane
torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According
to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler
metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is
from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am
planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power
and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with
MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while
you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.
That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.

Martin


They are.

And you have math!

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband." If
you look at the spectral output charts, they look more like a
fluorescent light from hell. g

Typically, the output falls off to near-nothing at wavelengths longer
than 800 nm, with an occassional spike at lower frequencies but with
almost all of the energy emitted at much higher ones. There's enough
noise at lower frequencies to raise hell with radio receivers, but not
enough to do much of anything else.

I haven't seen a good, big chart of this for a while, but here's a
little one. Scroll about halfway down:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

--
Ed Huntress

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:24:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:05:01 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.

The infrared from normal arc welding tails off to nothing, or nearly
nothing, by around 800 nm. You are not "cooking yourself" when you
weld.

"ultraviolet radiation can cook bacteria in a way that slow poisoning with copper might not. "

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/bac/20050530.htm

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:51:11 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Thursday, October 23, 2014 3:24:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:05:01 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/23/2014 1:38 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 1996 1:00:00 AM UTC-6, Jerzy S. Krasinski wrote:
writes:

Has anyone constructed a homemade induction brazing coil powered from
a salvaged home microwave oven? I think the usual oven is rated around
1000 watts, so it should provide enough power for a small coil, say maybe
1-inch inside diameter. I want to join brass to 1/8-inch O-1 drill rod and make
a nice clean joint without any surplus squirting out the edges. I've used
paste of silver/flux and also stick silver solder with a propane torch, but
haven't developed the skills to make a perfect joint. According to the
AWS, for a tubular type joint, the space allowed for the filler metal should
be around 0.002 to 0.005 inches. Any comments will be welcome. Dave

Good day Dave

I have seen spot welders made from MOTs. A nice one on youtube is from the "King of Random." It looks nice and works well. I am planning to run two MOTs in parallel on 240 volts for higher power and faster welding time. Please be careful when messing around with MOTs. The high voltage side can cause nasty burns or even kill you.

Have fun and be safe.

I wouldn't say all that about welding, because remember, the act of welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you are welding.

Welding does not emit microwaves. It emits light in the range of
infrared through ultrviolet C. It can be severely damaging to the eyes
in several ways, but the skin cancer possibility is the same as for
exposure to UV from the sun. It depends on the amount of exposure,
while eye damage can occur almost instantaneiously.

Microwaves (1x10^11) come right after far infrared (1x10^14) in the
electromagnetic spectrum. So I don't think a blanket statement that
welding does not produce microwaves would be perfectly safe.

I doubt that heart pacemakers are worried about IR.

The infrared from normal arc welding tails off to nothing, or nearly
nothing, by around 800 nm. You are not "cooking yourself" when you
weld.

"ultraviolet radiation can cook bacteria in a way that slow poisoning with copper might not. "

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/bac/20050530.htm

Conclusion: Bacteria who are employed as welders are in more danger
than those who suck on copper. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

That spectral graph I linked to is the one I first saw from the AWS
around 40 years ago. It hasn't changed.

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...hysRev.122.719

"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

That spectral graph I linked to is the one I first saw from the AWS
around 40 years ago. It hasn't changed.

"A microwave oven heats food by passing microwave radiation through it. Microwaves are a form of non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation..."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

That spectral graph I linked to is the one I first saw from the AWS
around 40 years ago. It hasn't changed.

"A microwave oven heats food by passing microwave radiation through it. Microwaves are a form of non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation..."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven

Are you welding, or heating your bean soup?

This is not a microwave oven. It's a welder.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?

--
Ed Huntress

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a
"broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear
up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the
form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.


It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders
of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element?
Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form
inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here
goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated
theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic
waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?


Something is being missed here. There are three kinds of radiation
from an arc welder:

1. Thermal (black-body) optical radiation, simply because the metal is
white hot.

2. Optical line radiation due to electrically ionized atoms.

3. Radio-frequency radiation due to electrical resonances in the
welding circuit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter


UV comes from 1 and 2, while open-air microwave cooking comes from 3.


Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:36:58 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a
"broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear
up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the
form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.


It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders
of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element?
Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form
inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here
goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated
theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic
waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?


Something is being missed here. There are three kinds of radiation
from an arc welder:

1. Thermal (black-body) optical radiation, simply because the metal is
white hot.

2. Optical line radiation due to electrically ionized atoms.

3. Radio-frequency radiation due to electrical resonances in the
welding circuit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter


UV comes from 1 and 2, while open-air microwave cooking comes from 3.


Joe Gwinn

To complete this picture, the issue was danger from being "cooked" by
microwaves. I pointed out that there's enough stray RF to screw up a
radio, and it probably continues all the way up to the microwave
region. But that's about it.

The spectral analysis shows trivial amounts of radiation from welding
at wavelengths greater than 800 nm or so -- trivial in the sense of
not being a danger to humans, which, again, was the issue.

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, October 24, 2014 9:15:50 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?

Well, overall, when anyone says that you are "NOT" cooking yourself when you are welding or even using cell phones or you are near any transmitter (or emitter), THEY are wrong - Technically. Though of course, its self-explanatory that there is usually no non-eye harm because its not nearly severe enough)

But, you did ask for an example of microwave energy from a plasma arc (I assume that if a formula to measure its emission was been devised on a college campus back then to measure these amounts, then its "significant", at least in that respect)

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:02:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 9:15:50 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?

Well, overall, when anyone says that you are "NOT" cooking yourself when you are welding or even using cell phones or you are near any transmitter (or emitter), THEY are wrong - Technically.

No, not even technically.

Though of course, its self-explanatory that there is usually no non-eye harm because its not nearly severe enough)

You're floundering, mogulah. You said we're being cooked by microwaves
from welding. Now you're saying we're not, "of course." Decide which,
and then provide some evidence.


But, you did ask for an example of microwave energy from a plasma arc (I assume that if a formula to measure its emission was been devised on a college campus back then to measure these amounts, then its "significant", at least in that respect)

I didn't ask for any such thing.

I'm sure you never read the paper you cited as evidence. I read the
first page. The equations are daunting for the general case, and the
paper isn't about the general case. It's about plasmas in a waveguide.
The general-case eqauations for Kirchoff's law of radiation require,
first, a value for the coefficient of absorption for the radiator in
question when it's at thermodynamic equilibrium. I have no idea what
that value is for a welding arc. Neither do you.

So you're blowing all of this out of your butt, or some other orifice.
You seem to have a knack for drawing conclusions about things of which
you have no understanding at all.

--
Ed Huntress

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:02:24 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Well, overall, when anyone says that you are "NOT" cooking yourself when you are welding or even using cell phones or you are near any transmitter (or emitter), THEY are wrong - Technically. Though of course, its self-explanatory that there is usually no non-eye harm because its not nearly severe enough)


Well I am saying you are not cooking yourself when you are welding. To be cooking yourself , there must be an increase in temperature. And there is no change in the temperature of someone welding. So you are wrong.

Dan

Dan wrote:

Well I am saying you are not cooking yourself when you are welding. *

You have no idea what you are talking about.

To *be cooking yourself , there must be an increase in temperature.

Ed himself posted earlier that: "infrared...can heat your skin" and he also posted that "the UV produces burns to the eyes -- retinas and*
lenses -- and to the skin."

Why don't you read the entire thread first.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:42:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Dan wrote:

Well I am saying you are not cooking yourself when you are welding. *

You have no idea what you are talking about.

To *be cooking yourself , there must be an increase in temperature.

Ed himself posted earlier that: "infrared...can heat your skin" and he also posted that "the UV produces burns to the eyes -- retinas and*
lenses -- and to the skin."

Why don't you read the entire thread first.

In the first place, you were talking about microwaves, not infrared.
And the "burns" are reactions to specific wavelengths of light -- UV B
and UV C -- not to heat. Radiation can cause damage without heating
you.

Long-wavelength IR can warm you, but it isn't "cooking" you. The
damage you can experience from welding is from the UV. If you aren't
wearing eye protection, your eyes also can be harmed by the bright
visible light. But that isn't "cooking," either. That's a matter of
overloading your sensors and damaging their ability to function
normally, for you to see.

--
Ed Huntress

On Saturday, October 25, 2014 5:42:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I have a much better idea than you do.

To *be cooking yourself , there must be an increase in temperature.

Ed himself posted earlier that: "infrared...can heat your skin" and he also posted that "the UV produces burns to the eyes -- retinas and*
lenses -- and to the skin."

Why don't you read the entire thread first.

But you said microwaves from welding were cooking the weldor. The amount of microwave power generated by welding in very low and does not increase the temperature of the weldor. Microwaves are not infrared. Microwaves are not ultraviolet.

From Wiki.

Microwaves are a form of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths ranging from as long as one meter to as short as one millimeter, or equivalently, with frequencies between 300 MHz (0.3 GHz) and 300 GHz.[1][2] This broad definition includes both UHF and EHF (millimeter waves), and various sources use different boundaries. In all cases, microwave includes the entire SHF band (3 to 30 GHz, or 10 to 1 cm) at minimum, with RF engineering often restricting the range between 1 and 100 GHz (300 and 3 m

Dan AD7PI