On Friday, October 24, 2014 9:15:50 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:33:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 11:26:51 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, October 24, 2014 8:15:52 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:42:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

That is 1000 times if those are the correct values of 10^11 vs 10^14.
That is a wide band difference.


It doesn't much matter how wide the difference is.

Lacking a tuned tank, any arc (AC or DC or HF modulated) is a "broadband
emitter", radiating RF all the way from SLF (audio) frequencies clear up
to ultra-short wavelength UV. (and maybe beyond).

Some welders have chokes and various tank circuits (generally in the form
of low-pass filters) to help prevent emission through the body of the
unit, but the welding leads always act as antennae.

Of course, any electrical apparatus has "tuning peaks" that tend to
absorb or radiate certain frequencies preferentially over others.
Manufacturers try to make their units suppress radiation in the ranges
where radio communications is done -- with varying degrees of success.

It's generally recommended that people with electrical cardiac or
neurological assistance devices avoid close proximity to arc welders of
any kind.

Lloyd

Lloyd, the radiation from welding arcs is nowhere near "broadband."

Which welding arc? When welding which material, substance or element? Different types of energy are emitted per materials used. Arcs form inside microwave ovens (due to conductivity, etc)

Wel

If you have evidence of welding arcs producing significant microwave
radiation, please let us know.

Gee, I'd have never thought you'd get all "college boy" on us, Ed. Here goes:
"The microwave emission from a plasma in a magnetic field is calculated theoretically using Kirchhoff's radiation law for cases when characteristic waves do not couple within the plasma. "
-- http://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/...ysRev.122.719\

The paper, "Incoherent Microwave Radiation from a Plasma in a Magnetic
Field," is primarily about plasmas in waveguides. But you could derive
the output of a welding machine from the equations, and you apparently
have, since you've cited the paper as evidence that welding produces a
lot of microwave energy. As you put it, "...remember, the act of
welding is emitting microwaves. So you are cooking yourself while you
are welding."

So, you must have worked it out. What did you come up with? Does it
agree with the spectral graph that the American Welding Society and
others have determined experimentally? If not, why not?

Here's that graph, as a reminder. Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://www.ehime-iinet.or.jp/ehime_e...bun/ronbun.htm

Let us know what they got wrong.


"A welding arc is a plasma maintained between oppositely charged electrodes. "
-- http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...0040139717.pdf

Yes it is. Now what?

Well, overall, when anyone says that you are "NOT" cooking yourself when you are welding or even using cell phones or you are near any transmitter (or emitter), THEY are wrong - Technically. Though of course, its self-explanatory that there is usually no non-eye harm because its not nearly severe enough)

But, you did ask for an example of microwave energy from a plasma arc (I assume that if a formula to measure its emission was been devised on a college campus back then to measure these amounts, then its "significant", at least in that respect)