For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

On Monday, April 28, 2014 11:23:51 AM UTC-4, Mike B wrote:


Ideas anyone?



Mike

I would try 100 silicone caulking. Silicone will bond to almost everything, but not much will bond it it after it cures.

There are probably better silicones than the ones used for caulking, but the caulking will be cheap and should last for a while.

Dan

Mike B someone@noplace wrote in
:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a
nickel and a titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical
connection). Part of the titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water
and sunlight. The nickel will need to be fully insulated from the sea
water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation
other that those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike


Get some G4 pond sealer (a moisture cured polyurethane).
Solvent clean the surfaces, apply G4 and wet sand it into the surfaces to
be bonded, wipe off the grit and debris with a lint free rag wetted with
more G4 leaving a thin film behind then apply any marine polyurethane
sealant sold for below waterline use while the G4 is still tacky.

I wouldn't expect silicone to adhere well to titanium unless the surface
is chemically cleaned so dont use it! Also many silicones give off acetic
acid when they cure and actually make the corrosion worse.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

Ian Malcolm fired this volley in
:

Also many silicones give off acetic
acid when they cure and actually make the corrosion worse.



Not "many"; type I silicones evolve acetic acid. Type II silicones
evolve methanol instead of acetic acid. That's not entirely harmless to
some base metals like cast zinc alloys, but a lot more innocuous than
acetic acid.

My best guess on a sealant for that purpose would be a polyacrylic co-
polymer rubber sealant like Sashco's LEXEL. You'd still need to
mechanically prep the surface but the stuff sticks to virtually anything,
including polyethylene.

LLoyd

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ian Malcolm fired this volley
in :

Also many silicones give off acetic
acid when they cure and actually make the corrosion worse.



Not "many"; type I silicones evolve acetic acid. Type II silicones
evolve methanol instead of acetic acid. That's not entirely harmless
to some base metals like cast zinc alloys, but a lot more innocuous
than acetic acid.

My best guess on a sealant for that purpose would be a polyacrylic co-
polymer rubber sealant like Sashco's LEXEL. You'd still need to
mechanically prep the surface but the stuff sticks to virtually
anything, including polyethylene.

LLoyd

LLoyd


And fingers , it's tough to get off even when uncured . This stuff smells
a lot like the GOOP line of products , are they the same base formula or
similar ? I used the Lexel to caulk a leaky chimney boot on a steel roof ,
worked just swell !
--
Snag
On the road ...



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:32:09 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, April 28, 2014 11:23:51 AM UTC-4, Mike B wrote:


Ideas anyone?



Mike

I would try 100 silicone caulking. Silicone will bond to almost everything, but not much will bond it it after it cures.

There are probably better silicones than the ones used for caulking, but the caulking will be cheap and should last for a while.

Dan

Try 3M Marine 5200. That stuff is damned near permanent. AND its an
adhesive. Best have the stuff positioned exactly where you want it
before it cures...seriously.

Its not cheap..but it will last.... not for decades..but for
generations.


Gunner



--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

"Snag's Shop" fired this volley in
:

And fingers , it's tough to get off even when uncured . This stuff
smells
a lot like the GOOP line of products , are they the same base formula
or similar ?

Some of the GOOPs are acrylic-vinyl, some are straight acrylic resins,
and some are polyacrylate co-polymer rubbers. The GOOP E6000 is a poly-
resin, and approximately equal in character to the Lexel. However, the
Lexel (to its advantage) contains more solvent (perchlorethylene), so it
flows better, and intrudes into roughed-up surfaces better, yielding a
stronger bond.

Both, if they penetrate equally, are tougher than a wild boar's nuts, and
will stick to damned near anything they come into contact with.

They do shrink upon drying, because they're solvent-based. So far,
that's not been a problem for me. I've put the Lexel on glossy MIC-6
aluminum sheet with no surface prep, and had to use mechanical means to
get it off. It doesn't like greasy fingerprints. Solvent-wipe any
surface to which you wish it to adhere.

Lloyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Snag's Shop" fired this volley in
:

And fingers , it's tough to get off even when uncured . This stuff
smells
a lot like the GOOP line of products , are they the same base formula
or similar ?

Some of the GOOPs are acrylic-vinyl, some are straight acrylic resins,
and some are polyacrylate co-polymer rubbers. The GOOP E6000 is a
poly- resin, and approximately equal in character to the Lexel.
However, the Lexel (to its advantage) contains more solvent
(perchlorethylene), so it flows better, and intrudes into roughed-up
surfaces better, yielding a stronger bond.

Both, if they penetrate equally, are tougher than a wild boar's nuts,
and will stick to damned near anything they come into contact with.

They do shrink upon drying, because they're solvent-based. So far,
that's not been a problem for me. I've put the Lexel on glossy MIC-6
aluminum sheet with no surface prep, and had to use mechanical means
to get it off. It doesn't like greasy fingerprints. Solvent-wipe any
surface to which you wish it to adhere.

Lloyd

I used a GOOP product once to glue the sole back on a W/m work boot . That
sole was so thin I could step on a dime and tell you not only heads or tails
, but what year and the goop was still hangin'on . I think I'll use part of
the rest of that tube of Lexel on the currently de-soled pair .
--
Snag
In Memphis
visitin' Grandkids

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:23:51 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

If the only results is to seal a joint then Gunner recommended 3M
5200. Having used the stuff for years I can second his suggestion but
you do need to use it correctly. 3M recommends that you coat the
mating surfaces and then tighten the clamping nuts/bolts so that the
mating surfaces are parallel but not tightly fastened. Leave for at
least 24 hours and then tighten firmly. You are, in essence, making a
gasket.

It does work and it does last and once you open the tube it also
hardens in the tube but taping the nozzle and storing the opened tube
in the fridge will significantly lengthen it's life. Most shops here
keep unopened, unsold tubes of "5200" in a fridge.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:56:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:23:51 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

If the only results is to seal a joint then Gunner recommended 3M
5200. Having used the stuff for years I can second his suggestion but
you do need to use it correctly.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Silicone
3M 5200.
G4 pond sealer
Sashco's LEXEL
GOOP E6000

I'm in Australia so finding these brand names or equivalents is a challenge.
Even 3M is poorly represented - buying from ebay sellers in the US is cheaper
than buying locally, even with the $20 postage.

There are two major brands in local hardware stores, Selleys and Sikaflex. The
documentation for both is lacking in detail. Often all you get is the material
safety data sheet which may give a clue as to polyurethane/silicone/acrylic
base or whether it contains organic solvents.
Sikaflex products may (it's difficult to tell) need a primer which is 3 times
the price of the sealant.

So far I've tested 'Selleys Urethane Bond' which is sold as a general adhesive.
This was better than expected but could still be peeled off with a finger nail.
I'm now testing 'Selleys Ultra Repair' which is some kind of modified semi
flexible cyanoacrylate and 'Selleys Aqua Repair' which is some kind of modified
epoxy/acrylic and 'Selleys All Clear' which as far as I can tell is synthetic
rubber dissolved in toluene - I think there's a US brand equivalent but I cannot
remember the name.

I'll wait a couple of days for these to cure fully before testing the
adhesion. If none work then I'll buy some 3M 5200.


Mike

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:19:59 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:56:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:23:51 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

If the only results is to seal a joint then Gunner recommended 3M
5200. Having used the stuff for years I can second his suggestion but
you do need to use it correctly.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Silicone
3M 5200.
G4 pond sealer
Sashco's LEXEL
GOOP E6000

I'm in Australia so finding these brand names or equivalents is a challenge.
Even 3M is poorly represented - buying from ebay sellers in the US is cheaper
than buying locally, even with the $20 postage.

There are two major brands in local hardware stores, Selleys and Sikaflex. The
documentation for both is lacking in detail. Often all you get is the material
safety data sheet which may give a clue as to polyurethane/silicone/acrylic
base or whether it contains organic solvents.
Sikaflex products may (it's difficult to tell) need a primer which is 3 times
the price of the sealant.

So far I've tested 'Selleys Urethane Bond' which is sold as a general adhesive.
This was better than expected but could still be peeled off with a finger nail.
I'm now testing 'Selleys Ultra Repair' which is some kind of modified semi
flexible cyanoacrylate and 'Selleys Aqua Repair' which is some kind of modified
epoxy/acrylic and 'Selleys All Clear' which as far as I can tell is synthetic
rubber dissolved in toluene - I think there's a US brand equivalent but I cannot
remember the name.

I'll wait a couple of days for these to cure fully before testing the
adhesion. If none work then I'll buy some 3M 5200.


Mike
I don't know about the modified cyanoacrylate but the regular stuff
will slowly dissolve in water. I guess this is one of the reasons why
it can be used to close wounds.
Eric

Mike B someone@noplace wrote:
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Silicone
3M 5200.
G4 pond sealer
Sashco's LEXEL
GOOP E6000

I'm in Australia so finding these brand names or equivalents is a
challenge. Even 3M is poorly represented - buying from ebay sellers in
the US is cheaper than buying locally, even with the $20 postage.

There are two major brands in local hardware stores, Selleys and
Sikaflex. The documentation for both is lacking in detail. Often all
you get is the material safety data sheet which may give a clue as to
polyurethane/silicone/acrylic base or whether it contains organic
solvents. Sikaflex products may (it's difficult to tell) need a primer
which is 3 times the price of the sealant.

So far I've tested 'Selleys Urethane Bond' which is sold as a general
adhesive. This was better than expected but could still be peeled off
with a finger nail. I'm now testing 'Selleys Ultra Repair' which is
some kind of modified semi flexible cyanoacrylate and 'Selleys Aqua
Repair' which is some kind of modified epoxy/acrylic and 'Selleys All
Clear' which as far as I can tell is synthetic rubber dissolved in
toluene - I think there's a US brand equivalent but I cannot remember
the name.

I'll wait a couple of days for these to cure fully before testing
the
adhesion. If none work then I'll buy some 3M 5200.


Mike


Your problem is first eliminating unsuitable sealents for marine immersed
applications, and I would immediately rule out most cyanoacrylates (poor
water resistance) ans silicones (difficult to get reliable adhesion).
Marine epoxies are generally suitable, and can be used as their own sand-
through primer, but may be too rigid and brittle for your application and
also have poor UV resistance.

Next you have the surface preparation issue - both materials need to be
extremely clean and totally degreased and as they are generally known to
be difficult, if you cant etch the area to be bonded to condition or
convert the oxide coating, you need to remove it mechanically while
excluding air, hence priming the surface by sanding through a pool of
catalysed or activated resin chemically compatible with the adhesive
system to be used and applying the final adhesive or sealent while the
priming resin is still tacky.

Due to the need to sand through it without entraining significant air
bubbles, you need a liquid resin for the primer and some sort of paste or
gel for the sealent so it stays where you put it. Apart from marine
epoxy which can be thickened with collodial silica, this means you need a
seperate primer.

N.B. I am assuming the the Nickel surface is NOT a cupronickel alloy as
they are notoriously difficult (near impossible) to get long term
adhesion to in a marine enviroment.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:19:59 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:56:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:23:51 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

If the only results is to seal a joint then Gunner recommended 3M
5200. Having used the stuff for years I can second his suggestion but
you do need to use it correctly.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Silicone
3M 5200.
G4 pond sealer
Sashco's LEXEL
GOOP E6000

I'm in Australia so finding these brand names or equivalents is a challenge.
Even 3M is poorly represented - buying from ebay sellers in the US is cheaper
than buying locally, even with the $20 postage.

There are two major brands in local hardware stores, Selleys and Sikaflex. The
documentation for both is lacking in detail. Often all you get is the material
safety data sheet which may give a clue as to polyurethane/silicone/acrylic
base or whether it contains organic solvents.
Sikaflex products may (it's difficult to tell) need a primer which is 3 times
the price of the sealant.

So far I've tested 'Selleys Urethane Bond' which is sold as a general adhesive.
This was better than expected but could still be peeled off with a finger nail.
I'm now testing 'Selleys Ultra Repair' which is some kind of modified semi
flexible cyanoacrylate and 'Selleys Aqua Repair' which is some kind of modified
epoxy/acrylic and 'Selleys All Clear' which as far as I can tell is synthetic
rubber dissolved in toluene - I think there's a US brand equivalent but I cannot
remember the name.

I'll wait a couple of days for these to cure fully before testing the
adhesion. If none work then I'll buy some 3M 5200.


Mike

If you are in Oz...check any of the marine websites

http://www.austboating.com.au/

and call a local boat repair shop/dealer and ask them for the best
stuff in your area

Lots of hobby boating websites as well you could drop a message into

GUnner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 22:19:59 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:56:19 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:23:51 +0800, Mike B someone@noplace wrote:

For corrosion protection I need to waterproof the junction where a nickel and a
titanium sheet are bolted together (for an electrical connection). Part of the
titanium sheet will be exposed to sea water and sunlight. The nickel will need
to be fully insulated from the sea water.

I don't have access to any special chemicals for surface preparation other that
those you can get in a supermarket.

Ideas anyone?

Mike

If the only results is to seal a joint then Gunner recommended 3M
5200. Having used the stuff for years I can second his suggestion but
you do need to use it correctly.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.
Silicone
3M 5200.
G4 pond sealer
Sashco's LEXEL
GOOP E6000

I'm in Australia so finding these brand names or equivalents is a challenge.
Even 3M is poorly represented - buying from ebay sellers in the US is cheaper
than buying locally, even with the $20 postage.

Look for Sikaflex. Apparently common in your part of the world, or at
least all the Aussie sailors I've met recommended it :-)

Do a google search for Sikaflex+marine+sealant+bonding.
You can find their "Sikaflex Marine Handbook", download that as it has
explicit instructions for using their products.

You'll probably come up with Sikaflex-291, or 292, but they make some
specialized bonding sealants, for example Sikaflex - 295 UV,
formalized to bond plastic windows into a fiberglass or wooden boat
where exposed to abundant UV.
--
Cheers,

John B.