On Apr 15, 3:24*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 17:04:51 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:









Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:32:36 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:04:02 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:32:06 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

It is an ART to repair a casting that won't crack again! *A big part of
that is in the pre-heat and cool-down phases of the weld. *I've had
mostly good luck but a bit of bad luck. *A lot depends on the metal and
the phase of Venus.
Indeed it is an art. When the welding equipment companies, or other
researchers, do a metallographic analysis of cast iron welds, the
results will leave you wondering how it ever works at all. The weld
and heat-affected zone typically is like a layer cake of weirdness.

Anyone who can get good results *consistently* is worth his pay.

BTW, the guy who allegedly was the highest-paid c.i. welder in the
world, an Italian who did nothing else, was hired and shipped in many
years ago by Bill Harrah to weld a crack in the block of his priceless
Bugatti Royale. He did it with O/A and c.i. rod. It worked, even
though it doubtless had oil in the (then) 60-year-old cast iron.

I don't know how he did the pre-heat or stress relief.

Yeah the haz in a cast weld gets interesting. Areas of carbon migration,
*grain structure changes and lot's more.

Gas works real good for thin wall iron. You have to watch your flame
real close and only fill enough to ensure a good bond. Then watch it
real close for contraction while it cools. Add enough filler and you get
a good bond and repair, go under and it will crack again due to the
tension stress at the site. If you go over it will probably crack in a
different area due to the stress the extra material adds as it act's
like a wedge.
That sounds like things I've read, but I've never attempted it. I have
enough to keep me busy with mild steel. g

It must require a combination of experience, knowledge, and a
highly-developed feel for the materials and the work. And I'll bet
that several senses are working at the same time -- touch, vision,
hearing, and even smell.

As they say, it's quite an art.

Takes a bit of sorcery as well. I do quite a bit for the local farmers
and construction outfits. Tell them up front that MY repair will hold
BUT no guarantee that there won't be a failure doe to unknowns in the
castings. Nothing like a slag inclusion or localized carbon content
changes to ruin the party. Older castings tend to be easier to deal with
due to less "unknown scrap" in the cast pours of the day but you still
need to pay close attention.

Ideally with something like a used block or head where it has been in
oil I like to toss it in a vat for a couple days to leach out as much
oil as possible. That way you don't burn more carbon into the iron when
you heat it up. Then you preheat above operating temps and hold it there
while you weld. That is the fun part....
Have you tried methods other than gas welding? Like, nickel rods with
a stick welder, or anything else?

The subject interests me a lot, although I think I'll probably remain
an observer. I don't play with engines like I used to.

Yep. Gas, stick, MIG. High nickel rods, cast rods, brass, even used mild
steel rod on one. All depends on the size of the casting, location of
the damage and the actual stress on the area.

Something like a freeze crack in the side of a block where the only
stress is from cooling water and no real stress then a simple clean up
and braze works. Just be sure you stop drill the cracks and clean it
well then overlay the repair well past the damage to catch that hairline
fracture you don't see with the dye..

Cylinder heads or block webs are the fun ones. Large castings are
generally not real bad with a stick machine and the correct rod IF you
can get them above operating temps so the casting and weld can
expand/contract equally during normal use.

I tried TIG a few times but due to the concentrated heat it doesn't work
well for castings. The localized HAZ is so small that it is hard to
equalize the stresses even with pre-heating to equal temps.

Well, you have experience with the whole gamut. Did you just learn it
all on the job, or did you go for some training? It seems like
learning to weld c.i. must involve some testing to destruction, or
maybe just seeing what holds together?

I have an uncle who was a GE turbine welder. He taught me some of the
tricks for odd alloys with stick and MIG. A few odd classes here and
there plus a lot of trial and error learning what really works versus
what the "experts" say works. Plus I listen real close when I'm around
the folks who did this stuff for 30 years. Add in being a gear-head from
day one, more than willing to cut up something to test it or see how it
was originally put together and a weird innate mechanical ability to see
and understand how and why things work.

I am also one of those folks who will look something over and say, well
it's already broke, let's see if I can fix it.

Got my medical instructors during EMT classes all upset when I started
comparing the human body with a car...

g I'll bet. I'll guess that quite a few folks here find they have
difficult-to-explain insights into mechanical things. I used to try to
explain a feeling I had racing, or in any car, by which I felt like I
had dissolved into it and could feel things like they were happening
inside of me, instead of to the car.

It's helpful in understanding structures, too. I can feel them
absorbing their loads. It's weird.

Anyway, to something more serious: Someone should write an article
about your experience, how you learned, what it takes, and so on. I
mean that seriously. If I wrote for any magazines that covered manual
welding, I'd want to do it myself, like I wrote an article some years
about about Dobbie Dave and his screw machines.

Those things are pretty rare and an important part of documenting
facets of the trade and the craft.

--
Ed Huntress

Video is better. Much better! :P

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:55:36 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.3.70...
jon_banquer fired this volley in news:665d3f6e-
:

Only thing that is not clear is who did the welding on the broken
turret casting and how it was done. No pictures were taken documenting
this.

Jon,it was abundantly clear if you read the notes on the Picasa page:

"So they had me pull the turret and take it to one of the best machine
repair guys I know, Jim at Quality Machining, Chino California...to
reweld the assembly. "



Amazing--he put it back together without getting his tongue stuck to the
freezer door.


Ah, the liar returns.

Welcome back, but as yet you haven't answered my post asking whether
you were in Bangor Maine in the 1960's so you actually know whether
the little savings and loan I mentioned had $2,000 in their till the
day I called in, or not, or whether you just told a lie?

I suspect the latter as most people in Maine are fairly logical, down
to earth.

Your signature is quite revealing, isn't it. It appears that you went
out and bought a lot of cheap Harbor Freight tools and after you got
them home discovered that you didn't know how to use them, thus Too
Many Tools.

--
Cheers,

John B.

"J.B.Slocomb" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:55:36 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
8.3.70...
jon_banquer fired this volley in news:665d3f6e-
:

Only thing that is not clear is who did the welding on the broken
turret casting and how it was done. No pictures were taken documenting
this.

Jon,it was abundantly clear if you read the notes on the Picasa page:

"So they had me pull the turret and take it to one of the best machine
repair guys I know, Jim at Quality Machining, Chino California...to
reweld the assembly. "



Amazing--he put it back together without getting his tongue stuck to the
freezer door.


Ah, the liar returns.

Welcome back, but as yet you haven't answered my post asking whether
you were in Bangor Maine in the 1960's so you actually know whether
the little savings and loan I mentioned had $2,000 in their till the
day I called in, or not, or whether you just told a lie?


I have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

Obviously you have me mistaken for someone else.



I suspect the latter as most people in Maine are fairly logical, down
to earth.


I'm from Wa.


Your signature is quite revealing, isn't it. It appears that you went
out and bought a lot of cheap Harbor Freight tools and after you got
them home discovered that you didn't know how to use them, thus Too
Many Tools.


You are a clueless ****wit.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Apr 15, 6:50*pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"J.B.Slocomb" wrote in message

news








On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:55:36 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
8.3.70...
jon_banquer fired this volley in news:665d3f6e-
:

Only thing that is not clear is who did the welding on the broken
turret casting and how it was done. No pictures were taken documenting
this.

Jon,it was abundantly clear if you read the notes on the Picasa page:

"So they had me pull the turret and take it to one of the best machine
repair guys I know, Jim at Quality Machining, Chino California...to
reweld the assembly. "

Amazing--he put it back together without getting his tongue stuck to the
freezer door.

Ah, the liar returns.

Welcome back, but as yet you haven't answered my post asking whether
you were in Bangor Maine in the 1960's so you actually know whether
the little savings and loan I mentioned had $2,000 in their till the
day I called in, or not, or whether you just told a lie?

I have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

Obviously you have me mistaken for someone else.

I suspect the latter as most people in Maine are fairly logical, down
to earth.

I'm from Wa.



Your signature is quite revealing, isn't it. It appears that you went
out and bought a lot of cheap Harbor Freight tools and after you got
them home discovered that you didn't know how to use them, thus Too
Many Tools.

You are a clueless ****wit.







--
Cheers,

John B.

He's a sock puppet that surfaced in January of 2013

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 18:50:30 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"J.B.Slocomb" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:55:36 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
68.3.70...
jon_banquer fired this volley in news:665d3f6e-
:

Only thing that is not clear is who did the welding on the broken
turret casting and how it was done. No pictures were taken documenting
this.

Jon,it was abundantly clear if you read the notes on the Picasa page:

"So they had me pull the turret and take it to one of the best machine
repair guys I know, Jim at Quality Machining, Chino California...to
reweld the assembly. "



Amazing--he put it back together without getting his tongue stuck to the
freezer door.


Ah, the liar returns.

Welcome back, but as yet you haven't answered my post asking whether
you were in Bangor Maine in the 1960's so you actually know whether
the little savings and loan I mentioned had $2,000 in their till the
day I called in, or not, or whether you just told a lie?


I have no idea what the **** you are talking about.

Obviously you have me mistaken for someone else.

Obviously I did and my humble apologies.

--
Cheers,

John B.