This all revolves around a Sherline mill, so it's tiny.

Mine came with some small collets and a 3/8" endmill holder that threads
onto the spindle with a 3/4-16 thread.

The holder itself is just a threaded cylinder with a 3/8" bore, grub screw
and holes for the tommy bars to tighten it onto the spindle, which also
has a hole drilled though it for another tommy bar. No wrenches or
anything like that are needed.

These were all made by Sherline and run true, no matter how I measure it.
The OD of the holder wobbles less than 0.001 and if I try to measure the
3/8" bore with an indicator on the shank of tightest endmill, it's barely
wiggles the indicator pointer. This matches on the lathe or mill, so it's
pretty consistent that is all lines up.

Good stuff.

I just got some "A2Z CNC" stuff which as far as I can tell, is just
junk. I have a quick change tool post from them which is iffy as well. It
shipped with the wrong length screw, and the tool holders are quasi
threaded through, where you need to chase the treads with a full out
handle hex driver for the first use. It's just cosmetic, but a couple have
that made from the end of a piece barstock look.


Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

The threads are loose and the things wobble around on the spindle thread
until you tighten them down. The Sherline holder has a firm fit, but never
grabs or jams up.

One has deeper threads than the other too.

Anyways, this stuff is going back since it seems useless if it can't even
match the accuracy of a drill chuck.

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

On another rant, I have a new no counry of origin marked 1/4" Jacobs drill
chuck. It's horrible as well, it feels rough and can't be broken in. I'm
guessing it's chinese and can't even be opened to polish the rough parts.

Every Rohm chuck I have is from and seems like a German machined product.

I have a real small 5/32 Yukiwa chuck which is also really nice.

Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Cydrome Leader wrote:

This all revolves around a Sherline mill, so it's tiny.

Mine came with some small collets and a 3/8" endmill holder that threads
onto the spindle with a 3/4-16 thread.

The holder itself is just a threaded cylinder with a 3/8" bore, grub screw
and holes for the tommy bars to tighten it onto the spindle, which also
has a hole drilled though it for another tommy bar. No wrenches or
anything like that are needed.

These were all made by Sherline and run true, no matter how I measure it.
The OD of the holder wobbles less than 0.001 and if I try to measure the
3/8" bore with an indicator on the shank of tightest endmill, it's barely
wiggles the indicator pointer. This matches on the lathe or mill, so it's
pretty consistent that is all lines up.

Good stuff.

I just got some "A2Z CNC" stuff which as far as I can tell, is just
junk. I have a quick change tool post from them which is iffy as well. It
shipped with the wrong length screw, and the tool holders are quasi
threaded through, where you need to chase the treads with a full out
handle hex driver for the first use. It's just cosmetic, but a couple have
that made from the end of a piece barstock look.

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

The threads are loose and the things wobble around on the spindle thread
until you tighten them down. The Sherline holder has a firm fit, but never
grabs or jams up.

One has deeper threads than the other too.

Anyways, this stuff is going back since it seems useless if it can't even
match the accuracy of a drill chuck.

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

On another rant, I have a new no counry of origin marked 1/4" Jacobs drill
chuck. It's horrible as well, it feels rough and can't be broken in. I'm
guessing it's chinese and can't even be opened to polish the rough parts.

Every Rohm chuck I have is from and seems like a German machined product.

I have a real small 5/32 Yukiwa chuck which is also really nice.

Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Quality has to be assessed on an item by item basis, you can no make
generalizations based on brand or country of origin. The drill chuck
with R8 shank that came with my Harbor Freight mini mill (Seig X2) is
great and compares well with another Yuasa one I have.

Pete C. wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

This all revolves around a Sherline mill, so it's tiny.

Mine came with some small collets and a 3/8" endmill holder that threads
onto the spindle with a 3/4-16 thread.

The holder itself is just a threaded cylinder with a 3/8" bore, grub screw
and holes for the tommy bars to tighten it onto the spindle, which also
has a hole drilled though it for another tommy bar. No wrenches or
anything like that are needed.

These were all made by Sherline and run true, no matter how I measure it.
The OD of the holder wobbles less than 0.001 and if I try to measure the
3/8" bore with an indicator on the shank of tightest endmill, it's barely
wiggles the indicator pointer. This matches on the lathe or mill, so it's
pretty consistent that is all lines up.

Good stuff.

I just got some "A2Z CNC" stuff which as far as I can tell, is just
junk. I have a quick change tool post from them which is iffy as well. It
shipped with the wrong length screw, and the tool holders are quasi
threaded through, where you need to chase the treads with a full out
handle hex driver for the first use. It's just cosmetic, but a couple have
that made from the end of a piece barstock look.

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

The threads are loose and the things wobble around on the spindle thread
until you tighten them down. The Sherline holder has a firm fit, but never
grabs or jams up.

One has deeper threads than the other too.

Anyways, this stuff is going back since it seems useless if it can't even
match the accuracy of a drill chuck.

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

On another rant, I have a new no counry of origin marked 1/4" Jacobs drill
chuck. It's horrible as well, it feels rough and can't be broken in. I'm
guessing it's chinese and can't even be opened to polish the rough parts.

Every Rohm chuck I have is from and seems like a German machined product.

I have a real small 5/32 Yukiwa chuck which is also really nice.

Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Quality has to be assessed on an item by item basis, you can no make
generalizations based on brand or country of origin. The drill chuck
with R8 shank that came with my Harbor Freight mini mill (Seig X2) is
great and compares well with another Yuasa one I have.

I have yet to see marketing folks try to be clever and say stuff like

"we moved production to China to increase quality. QC staff are cheaper
there and you get better products at a better price".

This A2Z atuff is alleged to be made in the USA, but is junk. It's
possible Prison Factory #44 would do a better job.

In this examle they might want to consider offshoring.

If you can come up with examples if stuff moving to china and the quality
going up, they'd be fun to hear.

My only anecdote is ThinkPad laptops from IBM. They went from US to Mexico
and to China, and the quality of what was build never dropped, but the
designs started to get cheaper and sucking due to that alone.

On 4/11/2013 9:30 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

Thanks for that input. I emailed some time back and asked if they'd
considered making holders for DA or small ER collets. They hadn't but
thought it interesting. I'll be wary of buying if they do, maybe buy one
first to check it out.
If I ever get my shop built back up once down under, that's something
I'd thought about making. (DA/ER holders)

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Depends what you are doing, but less is better. I have several such
Sherline holders, including some 1/8" that at the time, was a custom
order. All have detectable slop, though I've never bothered to measure.
It's not much, and I generally stick to 2 flute mills, and set the
corners 90 degrees to the set screw to minimize runout.


Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Why are you associating a name brand like Jacobs with a no-name junk
chuck? I've got a couple keyless Albrecht -type- chucks I'm sure were
made in China, brand name "Golden Goose". They are not Albrecht in
quality, but more than good enough. (Also have a nice set of Albrecht
chucks from zero to 1/2" capacity...)


Jon

Jon Anderson wrote:
On 4/11/2013 9:30 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

Thanks for that input. I emailed some time back and asked if they'd
considered making holders for DA or small ER collets. They hadn't but
thought it interesting. I'll be wary of buying if they do, maybe buy one
first to check it out.
If I ever get my shop built back up once down under, that's something
I'd thought about making. (DA/ER holders)

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Depends what you are doing, but less is better. I have several such
Sherline holders, including some 1/8" that at the time, was a custom
order. All have detectable slop, though I've never bothered to measure.
It's not much, and I generally stick to 2 flute mills, and set the
corners 90 degrees to the set screw to minimize runout.


Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Why are you associating a name brand like Jacobs with a no-name junk
chuck? I've got a couple keyless Albrecht -type- chucks I'm sure were

well, I've seen the old Jacobs chucks and I have a new one. The new one
works, but feels like something from a $10 power tool. I can't imagine
mine is a fluke.


made in China, brand name "Golden Goose". They are not Albrecht in
quality, but more than good enough. (Also have a nice set of Albrecht
chucks from zero to 1/2" capacity...)


Jon

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Jon Anderson wrote:
On 4/11/2013 9:30 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

Thanks for that input. I emailed some time back and asked if they'd
considered making holders for DA or small ER collets. They hadn't but
thought it interesting. I'll be wary of buying if they do, maybe buy one
first to check it out.
If I ever get my shop built back up once down under, that's something
I'd thought about making. (DA/ER holders)

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Depends what you are doing, but less is better. I have several such
Sherline holders, including some 1/8" that at the time, was a custom
order. All have detectable slop, though I've never bothered to measure.
It's not much, and I generally stick to 2 flute mills, and set the
corners 90 degrees to the set screw to minimize runout.


Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Why are you associating a name brand like Jacobs with a no-name junk
chuck? I've got a couple keyless Albrecht -type- chucks I'm sure were

well, I've seen the old Jacobs chucks and I have a new one. The new one
works, but feels like something from a $10 power tool. I can't imagine
mine is a fluke.

Counterfeit perhaps?

On 4/11/2013 11:38 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

well, I've seen the old Jacobs chucks and I have a new one. The new one
works, but feels like something from a $10 power tool. I can't imagine
mine is a fluke.

Ok, I missed that somewhere. Yeah, most anything new isn't going to have
the fit and finish of something made 20 years ago...


Jon

Pete C. wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Jon Anderson wrote:
On 4/11/2013 9:30 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Both of the A2Z endmills holders wobble about 0.005" or more. The runout
is clearly visible. The OD is better, but the bore is not concentric at
all.

Thanks for that input. I emailed some time back and asked if they'd
considered making holders for DA or small ER collets. They hadn't but
thought it interesting. I'll be wary of buying if they do, maybe buy one
first to check it out.
If I ever get my shop built back up once down under, that's something
I'd thought about making. (DA/ER holders)

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Depends what you are doing, but less is better. I have several such
Sherline holders, including some 1/8" that at the time, was a custom
order. All have detectable slop, though I've never bothered to measure.
It's not much, and I generally stick to 2 flute mills, and set the
corners 90 degrees to the set screw to minimize runout.


Are all Jacobs drill chucks junk now?

Why are you associating a name brand like Jacobs with a no-name junk
chuck? I've got a couple keyless Albrecht -type- chucks I'm sure were

well, I've seen the old Jacobs chucks and I have a new one. The new one
works, but feels like something from a $10 power tool. I can't imagine
mine is a fluke.

Counterfeit perhaps?

it's from sherline, not ebay, and works as it should, but it's no gem by
any means.

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?


Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

On Apr 11, 1:36*pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...



The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 11, 1:36 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...



The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

Works well with reamers but not so sure end mills stay put.

On Apr 11, 3:30*pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in ...

On Apr 11, 1:36 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"









wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.
He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

Works well with reamers but not so sure end mills stay put.

I've had very good luck with tapping in end mills. Once indicated and
tapped in I tighten the holder nut a little more and then check it for
runout. If it's critical I make a test cut and then check again for
runout.

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?


Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

What amount of run out would have you worried for what you do?

I'd assume that wobble with an endmill would make wavy patters in
addition to wearing one or more flutes and just letting the others rub.

Also, is there any reason NOT to use a lathe chuck in a mill as a chuck
for larger drill bits?

I had to drill 5/8" holes in Al plate and got a 5/8 bit with a 1/2 shank,
but had no 1/2 drill chuck so I moved the lathe chuck into the mill and
used that.

Of course, it spun out a few times leaving drag marks on the drill bit,
but is doing this more dangerous in that you may launch a drill bit by
into your chest or something like that?

It doesn't seem like you're going to kill yourself with sherline, but
I'd rather not take up bad habits.

jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:36?pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...



The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

What is meant by tap the end mill?

On Apr 11, 3:44*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:36?pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

What is meant by tap the end mill?

You get a soft piece of brass or lead and you tap on the end mill
where the dial indicator shows the runout to be high. This maybe in
several places. You keep doing this till you have the least runout
possible. It's a very common procedure in machining jobs shops where
you have tooling that's been used and abused. Would you like me to see
if I can find a video for you that will walk you though the procedure?

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in message ...
On Apr 11, 3:44 pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:36?pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

What is meant by tap the end mill?

You get a soft piece of brass or lead and you tap on the end mill
where the dial indicator shows the runout to be high. This maybe in
several places. You keep doing this till you have the least runout
possible. It's a very common procedure in machining jobs shops where
you have tooling that's been used and abused. Would you like me to see
if I can find a video for you that will walk you though the procedure?

-----------

For a Sherline, probably a short piece of 3/16 diameter brass rod and a jewelers hammer would be about right.

ok I know what you mean. I've been tapping on stuff to get in to seat
right in the lathe chuck. Soft stuff seems to get pinched between two of
the three jaws or just lines up in off angles if you just start to clamp
down on it.

On Apr 11, 11:41*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in ...
On Apr 11, 3:44 pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:36?pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

What is meant by tap the end mill?

You get a soft piece of brass or lead and you tap on the end mill
where the dial indicator shows the runout to be high. This maybe in
several places. You keep doing this till you have the least runout
possible. It's a very common procedure in machining jobs shops where
you have tooling that's been used and abused. Would you like me to see
if I can find a video for you that will walk you though the procedure?

-----------

For a Sherline, probably a short piece of 3/16 diameter brass rod and a jewelers hammer would be about right.

ok I know what you mean. I've been tapping on stuff to get in to seat
right in the lathe chuck. Soft stuff seems to get pinched between two of
the three jaws or just lines up in off angles if you just start to clamp
down on it.

As you clamp down on your part in a lathe chuck twist it as you
tighten the chuck. I find this helps to lower runout.

On Apr 11, 11:54*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 11:41*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:









PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"jon_banquer" wrote in ...
On Apr 11, 3:44 pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:36?pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message

...

The question is are there rules of thumb for how much runout is
acceptable for a small machine like this?

Machine size does not matter.

The smaller the end mill diameter, the more important it becomes to minimize
runout.

He will need to learn how to tap the end mill in to reduce the
runout.

What is meant by tap the end mill?

You get a soft piece of brass or lead and you tap on the end mill
where the dial indicator shows the runout to be high. This maybe in
several places. You keep doing this till you have the least runout
possible. It's a very common procedure in machining jobs shops where
you have tooling that's been used and abused. Would you like me to see
if I can find a video for you that will walk you though the procedure?

-----------

For a Sherline, probably a short piece of 3/16 diameter brass rod and a jewelers hammer would be about right.

ok I know what you mean. I've been tapping on stuff to get in to seat
right in the lathe chuck. Soft stuff seems to get pinched between two of
the three jaws or just lines up in off angles if you just start to clamp
down on it.

As you clamp down on your part in a lathe chuck twist it as you
tighten the chuck. I find this helps to lower runout.

Doing what I suggested should also prevent the pinching you
mentioned / help to line up the part better / makes it seat right in
the chuck.

Cydrome Leader wrote:

well, I've seen the old Jacobs chucks and I have a new one. The new one
works, but feels like something from a $10 power tool. I can't imagine
mine is a fluke.


They make those, as well as higher quality chucks. A look at their
website will show you both.