My small bandsaw with a Starrett blade works extremely well to cut
regular steel. I have been cutting a lot of 4-6 inch rouds without a
problem.

Everything else, that looks funky, I test with a file to see if the
file can easily scratch that steel.

So, today I took a piece of somewhat sniny, magnetic steel, tested it
with a file, and set in the bandsaw.

To my surprise, the bandsaw does cut it, but it works 10 times slower
than for the usual steel. The shavings are also longer in length than
usual. Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?

i

On Mar 1, 3:17*pm, Ignoramus9672
wrote:
My small bandsaw with a Starrett blade works extremely well to cut
regular steel. I have been cutting a lot of 4-6 inch rouds without a
problem.

Everything else, that looks funky, I test with a file to see if the
file can easily scratch that steel.

So, today I took a piece of somewhat sniny, magnetic steel, tested it
with a file, and set in the bandsaw.

To my surprise, the bandsaw does cut it, but it works 10 times slower
than for the usual steel. The shavings are also longer in length than
usual. Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?

i

Ever heard of a spark test, moron? Of course not because you refuse to
pay your dues and take classes for machining. Instead we have to
answer ever basic question you have year after year after year.

Any chance you will **** off and die soon? Take Loud with you.

Ignoramus9672 fired this volley in
:

Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?


Shiny as-received usually means fairly high chromium or nickel content.
Those steels are tough, even when annealed. They're not necessarily
abrasive, though, and by annealing, not hard enough to damage your blade.

Annealed tool steels seem to cut as well as - albeit more slowly than -
any other steels; on the saw or on the lathe/mill. Most cut more cleanly
than low-carbon structural stuff.

LLoyd

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:17:56 -0600, Ignoramus9672
wrote:

My small bandsaw with a Starrett blade works extremely well to cut
regular steel. I have been cutting a lot of 4-6 inch rouds without a
problem.

Everything else, that looks funky, I test with a file to see if the
file can easily scratch that steel.

So, today I took a piece of somewhat sniny, magnetic steel, tested it
with a file, and set in the bandsaw.

To my surprise, the bandsaw does cut it, but it works 10 times slower
than for the usual steel. The shavings are also longer in length than
usual. Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?

i
Or 15-5 or 17-4.

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

People who cut a lot of 300 Series and who know their stuff keep
telling me it isn't difficult or particularly slow. My experience with
it is that it can be difficult, and it's pretty slow.

Machinability for typical grades runs around 40%. But it seems to be
more extreme when you're sawing versus, say, turning it.

Don't hold me to it. I don't have a lot of experience with it, except
for drilling thousands of pieces in a Herbert turret lathe. Otherwise,
I haven't machined it much with other methods.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?

--
Ed Huntress

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

People who cut a lot of 300 Series and who know their stuff keep
telling me it isn't difficult or particularly slow. My experience with
it is that it can be difficult, and it's pretty slow.

Machinability for typical grades runs around 40%. But it seems to be
more extreme when you're sawing versus, say, turning it.

Don't hold me to it. I don't have a lot of experience with it, except
for drilling thousands of pieces in a Herbert turret lathe. Otherwise,
I haven't machined it much with other methods.


I am keeping my fingers crossed, and hoping that the blade did not
become dulled. I have 3 more tons of rounds to cut down.

i

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?


The saw has gravity feed, retarded by a hydraulic retarder. It does
not have any assist that pushes the blade down. It also does not seem
to need one.

Which brings up the next question.

I have two bandsaws, a smaller Wilton, and a larger Startrite H225 9
inch bandsaw.

The Wilton, with that Starrett blade, works great.

The Startrite, which I restored electrically due to burned out
control, cuts a lot slower than the Wilton, despite being larger and
running at what seems to be proper speed. I, obviously, compare both
saws with similar material, regular carbon steel.

I told my guy that the problem is, most likely, that it needs a new
blade. My question is, how can I ascertain that withuot spending $90
on a new blade? How do I assess "sharpness" of the blade? And, can
blades be sharpened?

i

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular
steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?

--
Ed Huntress

I had a friend in college that told me that the secret to machining
stainless was "Low speed and High feed".

Over the years I have come to respect this sage wisdom. When combined with
"Wicked sharp" it has yet to fail me.


Paul K. Dickman

On Mar 2, 2:19*pm, "Paul K. Dickman" wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

...









On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular
steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.

I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?

--
Ed Huntress

I had a friend in college that told me that the secret to machining
stainless was "Low speed and High feed".

Over the years I have come to respect this sage wisdom. When combined with
"Wicked sharp" it has yet to fail me.

Paul K. Dickman


http://www.truemill.com/content/true...gement-milling

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 15:41:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?


The saw has gravity feed, retarded by a hydraulic retarder. It does
not have any assist that pushes the blade down. It also does not seem
to need one.

Which brings up the next question.

I have two bandsaws, a smaller Wilton, and a larger Startrite H225 9
inch bandsaw.

The Wilton, with that Starrett blade, works great.

The Startrite, which I restored electrically due to burned out
control, cuts a lot slower than the Wilton, despite being larger and
running at what seems to be proper speed. I, obviously, compare both
saws with similar material, regular carbon steel.

I told my guy that the problem is, most likely, that it needs a new
blade. My question is, how can I ascertain that withuot spending $90
on a new blade? How do I assess "sharpness" of the blade? And, can
blades be sharpened?

i

If you're using the Starrett Variable Tooth Height blade, I think the
answer is "no" on resharpening. The teeth vary not only in height, but
also in set. I don't know how you'd sharpen that.

Based on what you're said, here's my assessment: You're using a blade
intended for cutting stainless and other high-nickel alloys with a
power-feed bandsaw. You're using it with a gravity-feed saw. When you
use it with a gravity-feed saw, it works fine on regular grades of
steel. When you use it on austenitic stainless, you're not getting
sufficient consistency in feed-per-tooth and you're cutting
work-hardened material.

When you run that blade on stainless with gravity feed, getting
sufficient feedrates puts you at risk of breaking the blade. The fact
that the work hardening occurs only in a thin layer of "skin" makes it
vitally important to get each tooth a consistent distance under the
skin. Gravity feed, which controls only feed pressure but not feed
distance, won't do it. That's why the Starrett guy I quoted in my
article says the blade doesn't work well with gravity feed.

This is analagous to drilling stainless with a manual feed drill press
or turret lathe, with which I have some experience. The difficult part
is converting that manual feed pressure to feedrate. I've
work-hardened many parts by just slipping on the feed for a fraction
of a second. Power feed overcomes that.

Put that into your computer and figure out what you want to do. If
your chips are long and thin, you're having trouble getting sufficient
depth-of-cut. If you crank up the pressure, you're risking breaking
the blade. Power feed avoids that by controlling actual feed rate
rather than pressure.

Here's a photo of what the chips should look like:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/fabs...ruary2012/#/48

I have that photo and more in higher-res versions. If you want, I'll
e-mail them to you.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 16:19:58 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:25:29 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

On 2013-03-02, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:46:48 -0600, Ignoramus22609
wrote:

Ed, I am using those Starrett blades with variable teeth and they are
amazing, well worth the money. I can easily make, say, 20 cuts of 5
inch rounds on a given day, lately. The blades fly through regular
steel.

i

Aha. Well, I haven't followed this thread very well, having given up
on having any helpful ideas early on, but the previous comment about
non-austenitic stainless steel plucked a cord.

FWIW, most high-nickel steels, which work-harden like crazy, are also
magnetic. Even 304 is highly magnetic if it's been heavily cold-worked
but not annealed, as is the case with cold-rolled bars.

Grade 316 won't be magnetic even if you beat it like hell. High-nickel
tool steels will be magentic, and they work-harden.

Work hardening causes a lot of surprises. Not that I'm sure what
you're encountering, but it's something to keep in mind.


I rechecked that steel round. Despite having been told that it is
magnetic, it was not magnetic, it was 300 series stainless. The
bandsaw cut it just fine, but it took an inordinate amount of time.

i

Just to recount this situation, the long chips support the idea that
it's 300 stainless. They also suggest that your feedrate is too low.
You have to be agressive when cutting work-hardening materials.

Have you cut 300 Series on that saw before? Is this bar behaving
differently than those did, if you've done it before? If it's a
cold-rolled bar and it's not magnetic, the possibility increases that
it's 310 or 316, or one of the special-purpose grades.

Aside from the free-machining types, they're all a bear to machine,
compared to 302 or 304.

One last question -- does your saw have hydraulic or gravity feed?

--
Ed Huntress

I had a friend in college that told me that the secret to machining
stainless was "Low speed and High feed".

Yeah, I think you've said that to me before, and I try to follow it. I
run into uneven cutting, I think because of work-hardening.

And I attribute that to two things: My old South Bend is pretty
flexible by today's standards, from the bed to the tool tip. So even
when I use power feed, the feed isn't all that consistent.

The second thing is that, like most hobby machinists, I'm probably too
cautious with depths of cut and feedrates.

I should practice it but I haven't had much occassion to cut stainless
lately. Mostly, I just make repeair parts these days, for the
environment that's falling apart around me. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Over the years I have come to respect this sage wisdom. When combined with
"Wicked sharp" it has yet to fail me.


Paul K. Dickman

I was cutting (foolishly) some AR400 - pre-hardened and fights
abrations... It was shiny and when it used up a blade I checked
the specs and shot myself into the foot... Chrome Molly and more
large body atoms.

Martin

On 3/2/2013 12:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:17:56 -0600, Ignoramus9672
wrote:

My small bandsaw with a Starrett blade works extremely well to cut
regular steel. I have been cutting a lot of 4-6 inch rouds without a
problem.

Everything else, that looks funky, I test with a file to see if the
file can easily scratch that steel.

So, today I took a piece of somewhat sniny, magnetic steel, tested it
with a file, and set in the bandsaw.

To my surprise, the bandsaw does cut it, but it works 10 times slower
than for the usual steel. The shavings are also longer in length than
usual. Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?

i
Or 15-5 or 17-4.

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:55:09 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

I was cutting (foolishly) some AR400 - pre-hardened and fights
abrations... It was shiny and when it used up a blade I checked
the specs and shot myself into the foot... Chrome Molly and more
large body atoms.

Martin

THATS what they make plasma cutters for!!

My first project when I got my Miller was some AR500 doodads




On 3/2/2013 12:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:17:56 -0600, Ignoramus9672
wrote:

My small bandsaw with a Starrett blade works extremely well to cut
regular steel. I have been cutting a lot of 4-6 inch rouds without a
problem.

Everything else, that looks funky, I test with a file to see if the
file can easily scratch that steel.

So, today I took a piece of somewhat sniny, magnetic steel, tested it
with a file, and set in the bandsaw.

To my surprise, the bandsaw does cut it, but it works 10 times slower
than for the usual steel. The shavings are also longer in length than
usual. Again, this steel is somewhat shiny and magnetic. Any idea what
it could be, 416 or some such?

i
Or 15-5 or 17-4.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie