Is there any federal trade commission or other regulatory agency requirements to mark HSS/HS on tooling that is sold with this stated sales literature?

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS, and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

I'm trying to get eBay to stop the minions of sellers from stating this without it being marked on the tool.

Every HSS tool I have is marked. I'm trying to build a set of low cost metric dies (have the taps).

ignator

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:38:36 -0700, fredhababorbitz wrote:

Is there any federal trade commission or other regulatory agency
requirements to mark HSS/HS on tooling that is sold with this stated
sales literature?

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

I'm trying to get eBay to stop the minions of sellers from stating this
without it being marked on the tool.

Every HSS tool I have is marked. I'm trying to build a set of low cost
metric dies (have the taps).

ignator

With or without the FTC getting involved, if you want to buy stuff that
you can trust, buy it from a reputable source.

There are good folks selling on eBay, but it's the internet equivalent of
an abandoned parking lot full of guys selling stuff out of the backs of
their pick-up trucks -- "buyer beware" is the rule of the day, and try
not to get robbed on your way out. So being an eBay vendor is somewhat
anti-reputable right there.

I wouldn't look for good quality on eBay unless I recognized the vendor's
name and knew them to be honest.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't HSS,
but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

ignator

On Wednesday, August 22, 2012 10:20:03 AM UTC-5, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:38:36 -0700, fredhababorbitz wrote: Is there any federal trade commission or other regulatory agency requirements to mark HSS/HS on tooling that is sold with this stated sales literature? I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS, and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less. I'm trying to get eBay to stop the minions of sellers from stating this without it being marked on the tool. Every HSS tool I have is marked. I'm trying to build a set of low cost metric dies (have the taps). ignator With or without the FTC getting involved, if you want to buy stuff that you can trust, buy it from a reputable source. There are good folks selling on eBay, but it's the internet equivalent of an abandoned parking lot full of guys selling stuff out of the backs of their pick-up trucks -- "buyer beware" is the rule of the day, and try not to get robbed on your way out. So being an eBay vendor is somewhat anti-reputable right there. I wouldn't look for good quality on eBay unless I recognized the vendor's name and knew them to be honest. -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com


I have never had a problem with buying inexpensive HSS dies. I'm not doing serious production, but 25 years ago, I was making bolts from 1/2" rebar, and threading 1/2-13tpi on each end. I was still ignorant to tooling, and thought that those hex dies that I could get at the farm supply store were real good. After destroying 4 of them, I talked to the local machine shop that sold tooling also, this old gal said, "those are rethreading dies carbon steel" her price was 4x the rethreading version. I got some China HSS made ones from her, bought 3 but only used one to make 45 of the bolts. And that was with mystery metal in the rebar. So I learned the value of HSS. I'm looking to get a set cheap, but if every vendor thinks they can say their dies are HSS, and believe this, is theres some sort of truth in advertising going on here. eBay is pretty hard over about misrepresentation. So now I ask if they are marked with HSS before. Well I'm back to $12+/die (small ones) from Enco or some other vendor. It don't take too many to get out of hand.
Even the sets on ebay ~$100-$160 the sellar's say are not marked HSS, but their vendor tells them they are.
And as I said, I've always seen HSS marked, and when I test them they are Rc=65 or so.
I HATE the "NEW" google group. It don't work with IE8, I can't tell where this is going to be posted. Ya, I should spend $120/year to pay for a newsnet provider. That will buy have a set of cheap tooling.
ignator

On Aug 22, 11:21*am, "Pete S" wrote:
You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't HSS,
but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*--------------------------------------------------------------



I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less..

ignator- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Short of doing a destructive test, like heat them to red hot, let them
air cool and test to see if they are airhardening tool steel, as I
believe HSS is M2 or in that family of tool steel. I know I can pay
for quality, but I don't want to tie up $500 on a set. As is I have
all the taps back when they were easy to get of ebay, and cheap to
ship. I really expect that HSS is a badge of honor that any tool
maker would mark on their product, and not just have the miniouns of
ebay seller claiming to be so.
What I was looking for was ammunician that requires this to be marked
on the tooling if sold with that claim.
ignator

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:51:56 -0700 (PDT), fredhababorbitz
wrote:


I HATE the "NEW" google group. It don't work with IE8, I can't tell where t=
his is going to be posted. Ya, I should spend $120/year to pay for a newsn=
et provider. That will buy have a set of cheap tooling.
ignator

$35 a year at Forteinc (2.95/month) for 15G per month.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:20:03 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:38:36 -0700, fredhababorbitz wrote:

Is there any federal trade commission or other regulatory agency
requirements to mark HSS/HS on tooling that is sold with this stated
sales literature?

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

I'm trying to get eBay to stop the minions of sellers from stating this
without it being marked on the tool.

Every HSS tool I have is marked. I'm trying to build a set of low cost
metric dies (have the taps).

ignator

With or without the FTC getting involved, if you want to buy stuff that
you can trust, buy it from a reputable source.

There are good folks selling on eBay, but it's the internet equivalent of
an abandoned parking lot full of guys selling stuff out of the backs of
their pick-up trucks -- "buyer beware" is the rule of the day, and try
not to get robbed on your way out. So being an eBay vendor is somewhat
anti-reputable right there.

I wouldn't look for good quality on eBay unless I recognized the vendor's
name and knew them to be honest.


Fortunately..most...most..nearly all are reputable sellers. The rare
ones who sell shoddy goods camoflauged to look like higher quality
goods...or those ignorant of the details of the items they do
sell...are the fly in the ointment.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 13:15:57 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:51:56 -0700 (PDT), fredhababorbitz
wrote:


I HATE the "NEW" google group. It don't work with IE8, I can't tell where t=
his is going to be posted. Ya, I should spend $120/year to pay for a newsn=
et provider. That will buy have a set of cheap tooling.
ignator

$35 a year at Forteinc (2.95/month) for 15G per month.


A very very very good deal and the news reader is quite good as well.

And there are a host of utterly free news readers that are also quite
good. And then there are the pirated copies that are available
everywhere.

Might I suggest Agent 1.93?

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:03:54 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Aug 22, 11:21*am, "Pete S" wrote:
You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't HSS,
but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*--------------------------------------------------------------



I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

ignator- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Short of doing a destructive test, like heat them to red hot, let them
air cool and test to see if they are airhardening tool steel, as I
believe HSS is M2 or in that family of tool steel. I know I can pay
for quality, but I don't want to tie up $500 on a set. As is I have
all the taps back when they were easy to get of ebay, and cheap to
ship. I really expect that HSS is a badge of honor that any tool
maker would mark on their product, and not just have the miniouns of
ebay seller claiming to be so.
What I was looking for was ammunician that requires this to be marked
on the tooling if sold with that claim.
ignator


Ive got about 50-100 pounds of dipped GOOD taps of various sizes.
What size do you need?

These came out of an American factory I shut down a few years ago. I
do have some metrics as well. But I have few dies.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

Pete S wrote:

You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't HSS,
but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

ignator

One would think that heat treatment may be selective to the cutting
area, particularly if they were the split adjustable type of dies that
need to flex a bit without breaking.

On Aug 22, 1:03*pm, wrote:

Short of doing a destructive test, like heat them to red hot, let them
air cool and test to see if they are airhardening tool steel, as I
believe HSS is M2 or in that family of tool steel. *I know I can pay
for quality, but I don't want to tie up $500 on a set. *As is I have
all the taps back when they were easy to get of ebay, and cheap to
ship. *I really expect that HSS is a badge of honor that any tool
maker would mark on their product, and not just have the miniouns of
ebay seller claiming to be so.
What I was looking for was ammunician that requires this to be marked
on the tooling if sold with that claim.
ignator

My local scrap yard has a xrf.

http://www.niton.com/en/metal-and-al...lysis/products

Dan

Cost of going the low price way. Buy a quality one once a month or week
or so. Buy from a high quality company.

The same issue is on 'ti drills' - looks pretty with crap metal inside.
They advertize Tough TI drills...

Buy quality drills with the coating. Not crap drills with the coating.

Martin

On 8/22/2012 7:38 AM, wrote:
Is there any federal trade commission or other regulatory agency requirements to mark HSS/HS on tooling that is sold with this stated sales literature?

I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS, and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

I'm trying to get eBay to stop the minions of sellers from stating this without it being marked on the tool.

Every HSS tool I have is marked. I'm trying to build a set of low cost metric dies (have the taps).

ignator

How do they perform when cutting. Are the cutting edges hardened
and the die itself not hard so it can be held tight with a set screw ?

Martin

On 8/22/2012 11:21 AM, Pete S wrote:
You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't
HSS, but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as
HSS, and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and
less.

ignator

Best take it to a lab and find what metal is in it.
Hardness isn't everything. I buy pre-hardened steel sheets.
It is a water based normally. Often chrome-molly-etc alloy.

But without the process, who knows what the normal alloy is.

Martin

On 8/22/2012 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Aug 22, 11:21 am, "Pete S" wrote:
You may be correct in thinking that the parts (the metric dies) aren't HSS,
but you could be wrong, too.
They COULD be HSS if:
-there was a problem in heat treatment
-The mfr wanted them less brittle for some specific reason

W1 can be hardened to a lot higher Rc than 55, so I wouldn't draw the
conclusion you did based simply on Rc hardness.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------*--------------------------------------------------------------



I've bought 2 metric dies recently on eBay, that the add stated as HSS,
and testing with my rockwell hardness tester indicates Rc=55 and less.

ignator- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Short of doing a destructive test, like heat them to red hot, let them
air cool and test to see if they are airhardening tool steel, as I
believe HSS is M2 or in that family of tool steel. I know I can pay
for quality, but I don't want to tie up $500 on a set. As is I have
all the taps back when they were easy to get of ebay, and cheap to
ship. I really expect that HSS is a badge of honor that any tool
maker would mark on their product, and not just have the miniouns of
ebay seller claiming to be so.
What I was looking for was ammunician that requires this to be marked
on the tooling if sold with that claim.
ignator

Gunner wrote:

Ive got about 50-100 pounds of dipped GOOD taps of various sizes.
What size do you need?

These came out of an American factory I shut down a few years ago. I
do have some metrics as well. But I have few dies.


How about a 5/8-27 tap & die? Not a common item. They are used on
microphone stands & some RF connectors.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:24:55 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Ive got about 50-100 pounds of dipped GOOD taps of various sizes.
What size do you need?

These came out of an American factory I shut down a few years ago. I
do have some metrics as well. But I have few dies.


How about a 5/8-27 tap & die? Not a common item. They are used on
microphone stands & some RF connectors.

Ill check in the morning. Though to be honest..nearly all of mine are
the common sizes.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

fredhababorbitz wrote:
....
Ya, I should spend $120/year to pay for a newsnet provider. ...

NewsGuy: $24 a year for 3G a month (way more than enough unless you're
into binaries):

http://www.newsguy.com/overview.htm

Bob

Gunner wrote:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:24:55 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner wrote:

Ive got about 50-100 pounds of dipped GOOD taps of various sizes.
What size do you need?

These came out of an American factory I shut down a few years ago. I
do have some metrics as well. But I have few dies.


How about a 5/8-27 tap & die? Not a common item. They are used on
microphone stands & some RF connectors.

Ill check in the morning. Though to be honest..nearly all of mine are
the common sizes.

I doubt that you'll have them. You could just post a note & keep an
eye out when you're looking for ones you need, instead of wasting the
time.