When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
people to protect themselves from government gone bad.

Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
Leaders) ignore this historical fact.

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
government is prohibited from doing so.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Why are people so cruel" wrote in message
d.com...
When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

"Why are people so cruel" wrote in news:h4GOr.766$qv3.135
@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:

When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

That's not a new concept at all. For instance, in my state (Indiana) the right to keep and bear
arms is protected by the State constitution as well, and quite explicitly mentions the right of self-
defense: "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and of the
State."

In article m,
says...

When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

December 15, 1791.

Took the Supreme Court until June 26, 2008 to issue a ruling on the
matter though.

On 7/21/2012 5:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
people to protect themselves from government gone bad.

Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
Leaders) ignore this historical fact.

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
government is prohibited from doing so.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"god given right to keep and bear arms" -????? you must be out of your
mind. which one of the ten commandments says "I, your god, grant you
the right to carry weaponry that will be invented 2,000 years from now
so you can kill your fellow man more easily"?? you are certainly on
thin ground even with your distorted view of god when you choose to make
up stuff that was never said in any biblical or rabbinical text, nor in
the book of Mormon, nor in the Quaran, nor in the Analects of Confucius.
You know what your god does to people who lie about her, you must start
your repentance immediately



--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

On Jul 21, 8:07*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the

Is that what they teach at Mormon Sunday school? Seriously?

a friend on Sun, 22 Jul 2012
13:31:31 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/21/2012 5:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
people to protect themselves from government gone bad.

Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
Leaders) ignore this historical fact.

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
government is prohibited from doing so.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"god given right to keep and bear arms" -????? you must be out of your
mind. which one of the ten commandments says "I, your god, grant you
the right to carry weaponry that will be invented 2,000 years from now
so you can kill your fellow man more easily"?? you are certainly on
thin ground even with your distorted view of god when you choose to make
up stuff that was never said in any biblical or rabbinical text, nor in
the book of Mormon, nor in the Quaran, nor in the Analects of Confucius.
You know what your god does to people who lie about her, you must start
your repentance immediately


Okay, so you have no rights inherent in your being, they were all
granted by you by the government.. We can understand how you might
come to believe that. It fits right into the rest of your pattern of
ignorance.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"And Art is art, and east is east and west is west, and if you take rubbarb
and stew it like prunes, it will taste more like raspberries than cauliflower.
Now you tell me what you know." Groucho Marx

I've never heard gun control taught, or discussed at church. So, no.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 8:07 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the

Is that what they teach at Mormon Sunday school? Seriously?

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article m,
says...

When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

December 15, 1791.

Took the Supreme Court until June 26, 2008 to issue a ruling on the
matter though.

But should n't you be a member of the citizen's militia, do the drills,
attend training, etc.

In article m,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article m,
says...

When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

December 15, 1791.

Took the Supreme Court until June 26, 2008 to issue a ruling on the
matter though.

But should n't you be a member of the citizen's militia, do the drills,
attend training, etc.

US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16:

"(The Congress shall have Power) To provide for organizing, arming, and
disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be
employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States
respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of
training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by
Congress."

The Congress has not seen fit to prescribe a discipline and the states
have not seen fit to provide training. You are welcome to petition your
Congresscritters and state legislators to address these lapses.

Difficult to "do the drills, attend training, etc" when those who have
the authority to arrange such matters are neglecting to do so.

"J. Clarke" wrote:

US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16:

"(The Congress shall have Power) To provide for organizing, arming, and
disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be
employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States
respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of
training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by
Congress."

The Congress has not seen fit to prescribe a discipline and the states
have not seen fit to provide training. You are welcome to petition your
Congresscritters and state legislators to address these lapses.

Difficult to "do the drills, attend training, etc" when those who have
the authority to arrange such matters are neglecting to do so.


He's in Australia, so it doesn't matter.

Gunner Asch wrote:

I train regularly. Dont you?

And if one is between the age of 17 and 45..one is Automatically a
member of the militia. Male or female (given recent Court rulings on
sexual equality).

After the age of 45, one can voluntarilly be a member of the militia.

Since the various state governments are remiss in supplying instructors
and equipment, its up to the individual members to keep trained and
supplied.

I do, dont you?

Gunner


Didn't they take most guns away from Aussies?

Gunner Asch wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
?
? Didn't they take most guns away from Aussies?
??
Just the fun ones.


From what they post online, it was a good idea.

We just might ask for all of the back taxes taken for this
o,a,a,d, stuff.

Should be substantial after all of these years.
Martin

On 7/23/2012 5:31 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article m,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article m,
says...

When did the right to bear arms to protect the state from
invasion, become the right to bear arms to protect the
person/property from an internal (to the state) threat.

December 15, 1791.

Took the Supreme Court until June 26, 2008 to issue a ruling on the
matter though.

But should n't you be a member of the citizen's militia, do the drills,
attend training, etc.

US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16:

"(The Congress shall have Power) To provide for organizing, arming, and
disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be
employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States
respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of
training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by
Congress."

The Congress has not seen fit to prescribe a discipline and the states
have not seen fit to provide training. You are welcome to petition your
Congresscritters and state legislators to address these lapses.

Difficult to "do the drills, attend training, etc" when those who have
the authority to arrange such matters are neglecting to do so.

On 7/21/2012 8:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
people to protect themselves from government gone bad.

Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
Leaders) ignore this historical fact.

The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
government is prohibited from doing so.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

You've got it all wrong! You're referring to the OLD constitution. The
Democrats are just now preparing the draft of the NEW AND IMPROVED
Constitution. It won't have all that silliness in it.

-Bill

Bill Drit wrote:

On 7/21/2012 8:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
? Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
? people to protect themselves from government gone bad.
?
? Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
? Leaders) ignore this historical fact.
?
? The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
? infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
? right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
? government is prohibited from doing so.
?
? Christopher A. Young
? Learn more about Jesus
? www.lds.org

You've got it all wrong! You're referring to the OLD constitution. The
Democrats are just now preparing the draft of the NEW AND IMPROVED
Constitution. It won't have all that silliness in it.


The revolution to put it in place will.

On 7/24/2012 2:30 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Bill Drit wrote:

On 7/21/2012 8:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
? Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
? people to protect themselves from government gone bad.
?
? Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
? Leaders) ignore this historical fact.
?
? The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
? infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
? right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
? government is prohibited from doing so.
?
? Christopher A. Young
? Learn more about Jesus
? www.lds.org

You've got it all wrong! You're referring to the OLD constitution. The
Democrats are just now preparing the draft of the NEW AND IMPROVED
Constitution. It won't have all that silliness in it.


The revolution to put it in place will.


No Revolution in the strict sense. They already dumbed down citizens in
democrat controlled schools for the past 50 years and numbed people to
stupidity, violence, immorality and entitlements. The Revolution is
just about over and they have just about won.

On 7/24/2012 6:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

You've got it all wrong! You're referring to the OLD constitution. The
Democrats are just now preparing the draft of the NEW AND IMPROVED
Constitution. It won't have all that silliness in it.


The revolution to put it in place will.


No Revolution in the strict sense. They already dumbed down citizens in
democrat controlled schools for the past 50 years and numbed people to
stupidity, violence, immorality and entitlements. The Revolution is
just about over and they have just about won.


Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner
-

On 7/24/2012 6:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 04:21:30 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 7/24/2012 2:30 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Bill Drit wrote:

On 7/21/2012 8:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
? Actually, you have the order backwards. It's ALWAYS been the right of the
? people to protect themselves from government gone bad.
?
? Most of our elected representatives (who now call themselves Our Nations
? Leaders) ignore this historical fact.
?
? The 2nd Ammendment to the US Constitution prohibits the government from
? infringing the God-given right to keep and bear arms. The fact that the
? right has already been severely infringed, does not change that the
? government is prohibited from doing so.
?
? Christopher A. Young
? Learn more about Jesus
? www.lds.org

You've got it all wrong! You're referring to the OLD constitution. The
Democrats are just now preparing the draft of the NEW AND IMPROVED
Constitution. It won't have all that silliness in it.


The revolution to put it in place will.


No Revolution in the strict sense. They already dumbed down citizens in
democrat controlled schools for the past 50 years and numbed people to
stupidity, violence, immorality and entitlements. The Revolution is
just about over and they have just about won.


Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner


The "Great Cull" is over as well, Gunner.
It only took about 40 years, and was done without firing a shot.

On 7/24/2012 7:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner

No great cull, good people will just slowly submit to democrats like the
frog in the pot being slowly heated. Sad, really. This country is cooked.

-Bill

On 7/24/2012 11:00 AM, Richard wrote:

The "Great Cull" is over as well, Gunner.
It only took about 40 years, and was done without firing a shot.


Yep, democrats have had the destruction of America well planned and well
executed. It took a bit longer than 40 years to rot the morality of the
people and install apathy.

On 7/24/2012 10:45 AM, Bill Drit wrote:
On 7/24/2012 11:00 AM, Richard wrote:

The "Great Cull" is over as well, Gunner.
It only took about 40 years, and was done without firing a shot.


Yep, democrats have had the destruction of America well planned and well
executed. It took a bit longer than 40 years to rot the morality of the
people and install apathy.


You're wrong, Bill.
It had nothing to do with Democrats. Or Republicans.

It was about Americans losing sight of what America was about.

Political "Party-ism" (my term), racial bigotry, greed, sloth and
laziness.


Remember Pogo's "We have met the enemy, and he is us"

On 7/24/2012 10:41 AM, Bill Drit wrote:
On 7/24/2012 7:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner

No great cull, good people will just slowly submit to democrats like the
frog in the pot being slowly heated. Sad, really. This country is cooked.

-Bill



Ok, yeah. I can accept that metaphor as being highly likely.

On 7/24/2012 10:50 AM, Richard wrote:
On 7/24/2012 10:41 AM, Bill Drit wrote:
On 7/24/2012 7:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner

No great cull, good people will just slowly submit to democrats like the
frog in the pot being slowly heated. Sad, really. This country is cooked.

-Bill



Ok, yeah. I can accept that metaphor as being highly likely.


Oops - uhm - simile?

Bill Drit wrote:

No Revolution in the strict sense. They already dumbed down citizens in
democrat controlled schools for the past 50 years and numbed people to
stupidity, violence, immorality and entitlements. The Revolution is
just about over and they have just about won.


You can only speak for yourself about being 'dummbed down' as
evidenced by your nym and the use of a trolling NNTP server.

On 7/24/2012 11:50 AM, Richard wrote:

You're wrong, Bill.
It had nothing to do with Democrats. Or Republicans.

It was about Americans losing sight of what America was about.

Political "Party-ism" (my term), racial bigotry, greed, sloth and laziness.


Remember Pogo's "We have met the enemy, and he is us"



Somewhat true in my opinion. Why?

-Bill

On 7/24/2012 1:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Tojo thought that as well. Yamato though..he read the People clearly.

Unfortunately..Tojo overruled him. And of course..the Japanese paid the
price...

Gunner

"A rifle behind every blade of grass!" Now it's "A liberal behind every
joint of grass!"

On 7/24/2012 3:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with
a terrible resolve." Yamamoto


Gunner


Today, the US military has a trillion dollar budget cut to deal with,
thanks to liberals. Is there any "terrible resolve" left in the US?
Liberals are ashamed of American Exceptionalism and have done their best
to drag the US down to match every ****-hole country that they seem to
worship. "Social justice", undeserved entitlements, immorality and "the
end ALWAYS justifies the means". Liberals ARE mentally ill, they
destroy rather than build and believe they are justified.

A cull just won't work, it goes against the morality of those that
would need to do the culling. A simpler way would be to vote the
liberals out of office and be vigilant about preventing them from
getting another foothold.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:21:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:57:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:41:58 -0400, Bill Drit
wrote:

On 7/24/2012 7:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Then the Great Cull will correct a great deal of the issues that
resulted.

And remove a large..very large number of Leftwingers.

And about time too.

Gunner

No great cull, good people will just slowly submit to democrats like the
frog in the pot being slowly heated. Sad, really. This country is cooked.

-Bill

Tojo thought that as well. Yamato though..he read the People clearly.

Unfortunately..Tojo overruled him. And of course..the Japanese paid the
price...

Gunner


"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind every blade of grass." Yamamoto

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with
a terrible resolve." Yamamoto


" Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United
States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even
Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to
march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House.

I wonder if our politicians, among whom armchair arguments about war
are being glibly bandied about in the name of state politics, have
confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the
necessary sacrifices."

As quoted in At Dawn We Slept (1981) by Gordon W. Prange, p. 11;
this quote was stated in a letter to Ryoichi Sasakawa prior to the
attack on Pearl Harbor. Minus the last sentence, it was taken out of
context and interpreted in America as a boast that Japan would conquer
the entire continental United States. The omitted sentence showed
Yamamoto's counsel of caution towards a war that would cost Japan
dearly.

" A military man can scarcely pride himself on having "smitten a
sleeping enemy"; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one
smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the
enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon
launch a determined counterattack."

Reply made to Ogata Taketora, the Editor in Chief of Asahi
Shimbun (9 January 1942) as quoted in The Reluctant Admiral (1979) by
Hiroyuki Agawa


" In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States
and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But
then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of
success."

Statement to Japanese cabinet minister Shigeharu Matsumoto and
Japanese prime minister Fumimaro Konoe, as quoted in Eagle Against the
Sun: The American War With Japan (1985) by Ronald Spector. This remark
would later prove prophetic; precisely six months after the attack on
Pearl Harbor, the Japanese navy would suffer a major defeat at the
Battle of Midway, from which it never recovered.



Im not sure it was a good thing..or an ill considered thing that we
killed Yamamoto. Probably a good thing based on some thinking of the
Code of Boshido that even Yamamoto subscribed to.

Gunner

The Army controlled the Japanese government so from a political point
of view Yamato's remarks probably had no effect on government policy.

On the other hand, the death of the commander of two major naval
battles must have been a grievous blow to moral.

(by the way, the first two quotes are unattributed and there is no
evidence that Yamato ever said them. The first one is, I believe, from
the sound track of the movie "Tora! Tora! Tora!")
Cheers,
John B.