On Jun 10, 9:48*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:43:18 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Jun 10, 6:02*pm, Hawke wrote:

So if we had rights before they were written down how would you know you
have them? By instinct? Or just because someone said you had them?

Hawke


It was "self-evident" to people who had steeped themselves in the
entire Enlightenment philosophy, and to others who had gotten used to
the relatively light hand of colonial management they had lived with
until sometime after the middle of the 18th century.


Ed Huntress


Right. But in answer to Hawke's question as to how one would know if
you had rights. You knew because that is the way you saw the world.
Not because someone told you that you had rights. And not from
instinct.

Dan

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:28:55 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 10, 9:48*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:43:18 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Jun 10, 6:02*pm, Hawke wrote:

So if we had rights before they were written down how would you know you
have them? By instinct? Or just because someone said you had them?

Hawke


It was "self-evident" to people who had steeped themselves in the
entire Enlightenment philosophy, and to others who had gotten used to
the relatively light hand of colonial management they had lived with
until sometime after the middle of the 18th century.


Ed Huntress


Right. But in answer to Hawke's question as to how one would know if
you had rights. You knew because that is the way you saw the world.
Not because someone told you that you had rights. And not from
instinct.


Aha. Ok, it's easy to misunderstand the language in discussions about
this subject. I guess I just wasn't following your thinking.

--
Ed Huntress


Dan

On 6/10/2012 7:28 PM, wrote:
On Jun 10, 9:48 pm, Ed wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:43:18 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Jun 10, 6:02 pm, wrote:

So if we had rights before they were written down how would you know you
have them? By instinct? Or just because someone said you had them?

Hawke


It was "self-evident" to people who had steeped themselves in the
entire Enlightenment philosophy, and to others who had gotten used to
the relatively light hand of colonial management they had lived with
until sometime after the middle of the 18th century.


Ed Huntress


Right. But in answer to Hawke's question as to how one would know if
you had rights. You knew because that is the way you saw the world.
Not because someone told you that you had rights. And not from
instinct.

Dan



what I think you are saying is that you knew what was right was because
of how you saw the world; and as men saw it back then, they "knew" women
were chattel and belonged to men, and that black people were not really
people but were a lower form of life. Which is my point. People believe
what the culture they live in tells them is true. Whether it's a right
to life and liberty, a right to defend one's self, or a right to beat
women or own blacks, people believe what the culture of the time says is
right. We now believe we have all kinds of rights that no man ever did
in the past. Why? Because that is what our culture says. We do what we
want and then make up reasons why to justify it.

Hawke