On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks
wrote:

On 2/26/2012 7:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:37:02 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/25/2012 10:57 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:25:19 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/21/2012 11:45 AM, Bible Studies with Satan wrote:
Peter Franks wrote:

On 2/19/2012 5:21 PM, O. Phillips wrote:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/08/vide..._not_showi.php

After reading a NY Times story on Kiryas Joel, the Orange County town
that's home base for the Ultra-Orthodox Satmar Hasidic Jews, a few non-
Orthodox friends from Manhattan decided to pay the town a visit. Earlier
this month they took a train to the nearest station and hiked five miles
to the town, where they started snapping photos of some of the sights and
attractions—like the air-conditioned bus stop! But it seems the locals
don't take to kindly to Goy outsiders, and soon enough a private security
force pulled up demanding identification. On Reddit, John Zwinck, a
software engineer who lives in midtown Manhattan, describes how the
situation quickly escalated:

After a few minutes, a black Suburban rolls up in front of us. Two guys
get out. One of them never speaks, but has a shirt that says Public
Safety. The other is wearing traditional orthodox clothes: black pants,
white shirt, black vest, and a yarmulke. We later learn his name is Moses.

He immediately demands identification from all of us. I ask him why, and
he says that he got a call for suspicious activity. I tell him we are just
visiting on foot, and that we haven't taken any pictures of people. I tell
my friends that I don't think they have to provide ID unless they want to.
Moses says if we don't provide ID he will arrest us. I see this as
ridiculous, and start walking again.

A few moments later, someone grabs me from behind. I turn around, and
Moses is holding my arm. I yell "assault, assault" just in case it's not
clear to the few bystanders that it's not consensual. Moses eventually
lets me go, and again I continue on my way, and my friends come along.


But when they arrived at a local cafe to get some lunch, a State Trooper
stopped them. Here's video of the incident, which ended with two hikers
getting arrested for refusing to show their identification:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=KpZHR_s0QLw

As you can see by the video, the officer tells them their being arrested
for obstructing government administration, and explains that the "public
safety director," Moses Witriol, had the right to forcibly detain Zwinck
when he refused to show I.D. In the end, no charges were filed, but Zwinck
did some digging and found that a federal lawsuit has been filed against
Kiryas Joel, and specifically names Moses Witriol. The lawsuit [pdf]

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/fil...f-kiryas-joel-
fedral-lawsuit-filed-6-13-11.pdf

claims that "the affairs of its government are inherently infused by, and
entangled, with religion such that its very existence as a municipality
violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United
States Constitution."

A group of idiot 'hikers' wanting to make trouble and did.

THose hikers knew the law and are going to win their lawsuit.

Probably. But they are still idiots and they wanted trouble and made it.

And this is wrong exactly how?

Where did I say it was "wrong", whatever that means.

I said they were idiots, wanted trouble, and made it. If it isn't
clear, let me know and I'll simplify.

So if a Jew in say..the Warsaw Ghetto caused trouble...it would have
been a very bad thing, right?

I guess I missed the part where these Hasidic Jews are on a blitzkrieg
into Soho and gassing eurotrash rejects. Could you point it out to me?

These retards went looking for trouble and made it. They aren't being
repressed, they aren't being gassed, and they aren't being rounded up in
concentration camps. You parallel argument ability sucks as bad as your
assumptive ability.

Right. If you want trouble around here, go hassle some Hasidim. And
hassling them means, first of all, doing something that offends their
community/cultural precepts and (odd?) moral values.

I'm not going to take sides in this conflict, because there are lots
of reasons I object to the way Kiryas Joel operates, but walking in
there with your ass up in the air is going to get you nothing good.
I've never been to Kiryas Joel but I've been to the larger Hasidic
commnity in Brooklyn. It feels like a foreign country.

Those guys were punks. If they want to tell the Hasidim that they
don't like their town, they should send them a letter or write an
op-ed.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks
wrote:

On 2/26/2012 7:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:37:02 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/25/2012 10:57 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:25:19 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/21/2012 11:45 AM, Bible Studies with Satan wrote:
Peter Franks wrote:

On 2/19/2012 5:21 PM, O. Phillips wrote:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/08/vide..._not_showi.php

After reading a NY Times story on Kiryas Joel, the Orange County town
that's home base for the Ultra-Orthodox Satmar Hasidic Jews, a few non-
Orthodox friends from Manhattan decided to pay the town a visit. Earlier
this month they took a train to the nearest station and hiked five miles
to the town, where they started snapping photos of some of the sights and
attractions?like the air-conditioned bus stop! But it seems the locals
don't take to kindly to Goy outsiders, and soon enough a private security
force pulled up demanding identification. On Reddit, John Zwinck, a
software engineer who lives in midtown Manhattan, describes how the
situation quickly escalated:

After a few minutes, a black Suburban rolls up in front of us. Two guys
get out. One of them never speaks, but has a shirt that says Public
Safety. The other is wearing traditional orthodox clothes: black pants,
white shirt, black vest, and a yarmulke. We later learn his name is Moses.

He immediately demands identification from all of us. I ask him why, and
he says that he got a call for suspicious activity. I tell him we are just
visiting on foot, and that we haven't taken any pictures of people. I tell
my friends that I don't think they have to provide ID unless they want to.
Moses says if we don't provide ID he will arrest us. I see this as
ridiculous, and start walking again.

A few moments later, someone grabs me from behind. I turn around, and
Moses is holding my arm. I yell "assault, assault" just in case it's not
clear to the few bystanders that it's not consensual. Moses eventually
lets me go, and again I continue on my way, and my friends come along.


But when they arrived at a local cafe to get some lunch, a State Trooper
stopped them. Here's video of the incident, which ended with two hikers
getting arrested for refusing to show their identification:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=KpZHR_s0QLw

As you can see by the video, the officer tells them their being arrested
for obstructing government administration, and explains that the "public
safety director," Moses Witriol, had the right to forcibly detain Zwinck
when he refused to show I.D. In the end, no charges were filed, but Zwinck
did some digging and found that a federal lawsuit has been filed against
Kiryas Joel, and specifically names Moses Witriol. The lawsuit [pdf]

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/fil...f-kiryas-joel-
fedral-lawsuit-filed-6-13-11.pdf

claims that "the affairs of its government are inherently infused by, and
entangled, with religion such that its very existence as a municipality
violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United
States Constitution."

A group of idiot 'hikers' wanting to make trouble and did.

THose hikers knew the law and are going to win their lawsuit.

Probably. But they are still idiots and they wanted trouble and made it.

And this is wrong exactly how?

Where did I say it was "wrong", whatever that means.

I said they were idiots, wanted trouble, and made it. If it isn't
clear, let me know and I'll simplify.

So if a Jew in say..the Warsaw Ghetto caused trouble...it would have
been a very bad thing, right?

I guess I missed the part where these Hasidic Jews are on a blitzkrieg
into Soho and gassing eurotrash rejects. Could you point it out to me?

These retards went looking for trouble and made it. They aren't being
repressed, they aren't being gassed, and they aren't being rounded up in
concentration camps. You parallel argument ability sucks as bad as your
assumptive ability.

Right. If you want trouble around here, go hassle some Hasidim. And
hassling them means, first of all, doing something that offends their
community/cultural precepts and (odd?) moral values.

I'm not going to take sides in this conflict, because there are lots
of reasons I object to the way Kiryas Joel operates, but walking in
there with your ass up in the air is going to get you nothing good.
I've never been to Kiryas Joel but I've been to the larger Hasidic
commnity in Brooklyn. It feels like a foreign country.

Those guys were punks. If they want to tell the Hasidim that they
don't like their town, they should send them a letter or write an
op-ed.


Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks
wrote:

On 2/26/2012 7:41 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:37:02 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/25/2012 10:57 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:25:19 -0800, Peter wrote:

On 2/21/2012 11:45 AM, Bible Studies with Satan wrote:
Peter Franks wrote:

On 2/19/2012 5:21 PM, O. Phillips wrote:
http://gothamist.com/2011/08/08/vide..._not_showi.php

After reading a NY Times story on Kiryas Joel, the Orange County town
that's home base for the Ultra-Orthodox Satmar Hasidic Jews, a few non-
Orthodox friends from Manhattan decided to pay the town a visit. Earlier
this month they took a train to the nearest station and hiked five miles
to the town, where they started snapping photos of some of the sights and
attractions?like the air-conditioned bus stop! But it seems the locals
don't take to kindly to Goy outsiders, and soon enough a private security
force pulled up demanding identification. On Reddit, John Zwinck, a
software engineer who lives in midtown Manhattan, describes how the
situation quickly escalated:

After a few minutes, a black Suburban rolls up in front of us. Two guys
get out. One of them never speaks, but has a shirt that says Public
Safety. The other is wearing traditional orthodox clothes: black pants,
white shirt, black vest, and a yarmulke. We later learn his name is Moses.

He immediately demands identification from all of us. I ask him why, and
he says that he got a call for suspicious activity. I tell him we are just
visiting on foot, and that we haven't taken any pictures of people. I tell
my friends that I don't think they have to provide ID unless they want to.
Moses says if we don't provide ID he will arrest us. I see this as
ridiculous, and start walking again.

A few moments later, someone grabs me from behind. I turn around, and
Moses is holding my arm. I yell "assault, assault" just in case it's not
clear to the few bystanders that it's not consensual. Moses eventually
lets me go, and again I continue on my way, and my friends come along.


But when they arrived at a local cafe to get some lunch, a State Trooper
stopped them. Here's video of the incident, which ended with two hikers
getting arrested for refusing to show their identification:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=KpZHR_s0QLw

As you can see by the video, the officer tells them their being arrested
for obstructing government administration, and explains that the "public
safety director," Moses Witriol, had the right to forcibly detain Zwinck
when he refused to show I.D. In the end, no charges were filed, but Zwinck
did some digging and found that a federal lawsuit has been filed against
Kiryas Joel, and specifically names Moses Witriol. The lawsuit [pdf]

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/fil...f-kiryas-joel-
fedral-lawsuit-filed-6-13-11.pdf

claims that "the affairs of its government are inherently infused by, and
entangled, with religion such that its very existence as a municipality
violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United
States Constitution."

A group of idiot 'hikers' wanting to make trouble and did.

THose hikers knew the law and are going to win their lawsuit.

Probably. But they are still idiots and they wanted trouble and made it.

And this is wrong exactly how?

Where did I say it was "wrong", whatever that means.

I said they were idiots, wanted trouble, and made it. If it isn't
clear, let me know and I'll simplify.

So if a Jew in say..the Warsaw Ghetto caused trouble...it would have
been a very bad thing, right?

I guess I missed the part where these Hasidic Jews are on a blitzkrieg
into Soho and gassing eurotrash rejects. Could you point it out to me?

These retards went looking for trouble and made it. They aren't being
repressed, they aren't being gassed, and they aren't being rounded up in
concentration camps. You parallel argument ability sucks as bad as your
assumptive ability.

Right. If you want trouble around here, go hassle some Hasidim. And
hassling them means, first of all, doing something that offends their
community/cultural precepts and (odd?) moral values.

I'm not going to take sides in this conflict, because there are lots
of reasons I object to the way Kiryas Joel operates, but walking in
there with your ass up in the air is going to get you nothing good.
I've never been to Kiryas Joel but I've been to the larger Hasidic
commnity in Brooklyn. It feels like a foreign country.

Those guys were punks. If they want to tell the Hasidim that they
don't like their town, they should send them a letter or write an
op-ed.


Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ignoramus3737" wrote in message


Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Blood

I drove from NH to Georgia (USA), but when I got there I parked and
only rode around in cars with local plates.

jsw

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots. I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.

--
Ed Huntress

I have no problem with whatever they want to believe. I don't agree that
they should be allowed to enforce their customs on others as law, or to
systematically rip off communities through tax avoidance and welfare abuse.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:47:10 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.

--
Ed Huntress

I have no problem with whatever they want to believe. I don't agree that
they should be allowed to enforce their customs on others as law, or to
systematically rip off communities through tax avoidance and welfare abuse.

Well, as I said, I have a lot of objections to this and some other
Hasadic communities. They're isolated, they're religious extremists,
and they're exclusionary.

But that doesn't change these facts: If you want to start a religious
conflict, this is the way to do it. If you want a fight, this is a way
to get one.

I don't picture these guys as the Sons of Liberty. Their action is
more like that of teenagers who are full of themselves. I don't want
them determining the outcome of these communities, either.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/27/2012 3:47 PM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.

--
Ed Huntress

I have no problem with whatever they want to believe. I don't agree that
they should be allowed to enforce their customs on others as law, or to
systematically rip off communities through tax avoidance and welfare abuse.

Welfare abuse indeed. According to Wikipedia, the village has the
highest poverty rate in the country, and 40% of residents receive food
stamps.

On Feb 27, 7:21*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:

Well, as I said, I have a lot of objections to this and some other
Hasadic communities. They're isolated, they're religious extremists,
and they're exclusionary.

A while back, when I was contracting for AT&T, we did a 5-day
installation job at the Central Office that serves the Monroe, NY
area. I don't know what it is, but that corner of NY is pretty
peculiar. You not only have KJ, but there are other religious enclaves
there as well. There are born-again Christian and Buddhist communities
which, while perhaps not as extreme as KJ, are pretty much isolated
and exlusionary. There are also some very small towns that one would
expect to find in, say, Appalachian Kentucky, but this is 50 miles
from New York City.

I was happy that it was near enough to home that I could sleep in my
own bed every night.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:05:46 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Feb 27, 7:21*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:

Well, as I said, I have a lot of objections to this and some other
Hasadic communities. They're isolated, they're religious extremists,
and they're exclusionary.

A while back, when I was contracting for AT&T, we did a 5-day
installation job at the Central Office that serves the Monroe, NY
area. I don't know what it is, but that corner of NY is pretty
peculiar. You not only have KJ, but there are other religious enclaves
there as well. There are born-again Christian and Buddhist communities
which, while perhaps not as extreme as KJ, are pretty much isolated
and exlusionary. There are also some very small towns that one would
expect to find in, say, Appalachian Kentucky, but this is 50 miles
from New York City.

I was happy that it was near enough to home that I could sleep in my
own bed every night.

I agree, from there well up into the Catskills, there are some creepy
folks.

Remember that bear that killed a baby up there? That was in Machne
Ohel Feige, another Hasidic community, north and west of KJ.

I just give the Hasidim a wide berth in New York. I do the same with
all religious extremists, including the abortion-doctor haters.

Which reminds me. After listening to Rick Sanitarium lately (I was
baptized and raised Catholic; there are very few like him, but I do
remember the type), an old Frank Zappa song has been running around in
my head: "Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcE2dq3YD0

G

--
Ed Huntress

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.


Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


I think that the least we can ask from anyone, is to respect American
values of respect for the law.

i

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:52:04 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.


Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


I think that the least we can ask from anyone, is to respect American
values of respect for the law.

i

A fine sentiment, but many people don't agree about what the law
should be. These folks have strong ideas about which laws are
legitimate and which are superceded by God's law.

Personally, I'd be glad to ship all religious extremists off to some
desert island. But that's not how we do things in this country.
Whether they respect the law or not, the law will prevail. We'll see
how this case works itself out.

I doubt if much will happen, actually. The most will be a small
lawsuit or a small charge for assault. To the Hasidim, that's just
background noise.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2/27/2012 5:25 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:05:46 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, Ed wrote:

Well, as I said, I have a lot of objections to this and some other
Hasadic communities. They're isolated, they're religious extremists,
and they're exclusionary.

A while back, when I was contracting for AT&T, we did a 5-day
installation job at the Central Office that serves the Monroe, NY
area. I don't know what it is, but that corner of NY is pretty
peculiar. You not only have KJ, but there are other religious enclaves
there as well. There are born-again Christian and Buddhist communities
which, while perhaps not as extreme as KJ, are pretty much isolated
and exlusionary. There are also some very small towns that one would
expect to find in, say, Appalachian Kentucky, but this is 50 miles
from New York City.

I was happy that it was near enough to home that I could sleep in my
own bed every night.

I agree, from there well up into the Catskills, there are some creepy
folks.

Remember that bear that killed a baby up there? That was in Machne
Ohel Feige, another Hasidic community, north and west of KJ.

I just give the Hasidim a wide berth in New York. I do the same with
all religious extremists, including the abortion-doctor haters.

Which reminds me. After listening to Rick Sanitarium lately (I was
baptized and raised Catholic; there are very few like him, but I do
remember the type), an old Frank Zappa song has been running around in
my head: "Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcE2dq3YD0

Then maybe you'd like this, too:

http://www.funnypics.dk/data/media/1/JesusLovesYou.jpg

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:35:36 -0800, Randal Scripter
wrote:

On 2/27/2012 5:25 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:05:46 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, Ed wrote:

Well, as I said, I have a lot of objections to this and some other
Hasadic communities. They're isolated, they're religious extremists,
and they're exclusionary.

A while back, when I was contracting for AT&T, we did a 5-day
installation job at the Central Office that serves the Monroe, NY
area. I don't know what it is, but that corner of NY is pretty
peculiar. You not only have KJ, but there are other religious enclaves
there as well. There are born-again Christian and Buddhist communities
which, while perhaps not as extreme as KJ, are pretty much isolated
and exlusionary. There are also some very small towns that one would
expect to find in, say, Appalachian Kentucky, but this is 50 miles
from New York City.

I was happy that it was near enough to home that I could sleep in my
own bed every night.

I agree, from there well up into the Catskills, there are some creepy
folks.

Remember that bear that killed a baby up there? That was in Machne
Ohel Feige, another Hasidic community, north and west of KJ.

I just give the Hasidim a wide berth in New York. I do the same with
all religious extremists, including the abortion-doctor haters.

Which reminds me. After listening to Rick Sanitarium lately (I was
baptized and raised Catholic; there are very few like him, but I do
remember the type), an old Frank Zappa song has been running around in
my head: "Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcE2dq3YD0

Then maybe you'd like this, too:

http://www.funnypics.dk/data/media/1/JesusLovesYou.jpg

Ha! Yeah, that's more of the flip side. It reminds me of something a
Brit said to someone when I was in London many years ago, which struck
me as funny at the time. I guess my sense of humor has changed a bit.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:36:48 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


From what I've read the Hasidim living in Jerusalem stone automobiles
that drive through their neighborhood on Shabbat.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:50:47 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:36:48 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


From what I've read the Hasidim living in Jerusalem stone automobiles
that drive through their neighborhood on Shabbat.

And they do a lot of things that are unpleasant right here in the US.

I have little use for them. But I respect their rights under the law.
It's up to the law to deal with any transgressions.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:50:47 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:36:48 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were
also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


From what I've read the Hasidim living in Jerusalem stone automobiles
that drive through their neighborhood on Shabbat.

And they do a lot of things that are unpleasant right here in the US.

I have little use for them. But I respect their rights under the law.
It's up to the law to deal with any transgressions.

--
Ed Huntress

Where is Janet Reno when we really need her?

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:07:42 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:50:47 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:36:48 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:27:18 -0500, "ATP"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:12:32 -0600, Ignoramus3737
wrote:

On 2012-02-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:12 -0800, Peter Franks



Wait a second, did this happen in the United States of America?

Open up your eyes, Iggy. These guys intentionally provoked the people
in that community. The community doesn't like it. They reacted.

The "hikers" knew they would; that's why they were there. They were
looking for trouble. It's like walking into a black community while
wearing white robes and hoods. If you don't know the Hasidim, you
might think that's an excessive comparison. It is not.

The law will sort it out.

--
Ed Huntress

Not a good analogy, they weren't exactly wearing armbands and jackboots.

Then you don't understand the culture. Hasidim are religious
extremists, in the most pejorative sense. They take offense at
anything.

I
guess the people who staged the diner sit-ins in Greensboro, NC were
also
looking for trouble?

Yes they were. And they got it, right?

Same deal. If you want to break up Hasidic communities and start a
religious war in the courts, this is exactly the way to do it.

Is that what you favor? Or are you saying that the Hasidim should see
things the way you do? They don't. And they won't. But you can turn
them into a Jewish version of Al Queda without a lot of trouble.


From what I've read the Hasidim living in Jerusalem stone automobiles
that drive through their neighborhood on Shabbat.

And they do a lot of things that are unpleasant right here in the US.

I have little use for them. But I respect their rights under the law.
It's up to the law to deal with any transgressions.

--
Ed Huntress

Where is Janet Reno when we really need her?


LOL! Sorting out the Jews with a howitzer-induced Rapture, eh? The
Christian right ought to love that idea.

--
Ed Huntress