Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile . Some
of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past , but this crap has
gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .
Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past , but this
crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .


The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:L66dnVmLcfD8fjPTnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .
Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past , but this
crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .


The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

There's a more direct connection, too. Gunner started cross-posting to
misc.survivalism and occasionally to a gun group; Cliff picked it up and
made it much worse, extending it to additional NGs; Hammy (under about a
dozen pseudonyms) decided to make life miserable for RCM because Cliff had
picked up misc.survivalism from Gunner and Hammy is a prick; and now RCM is
in every nutjobs' cross-posting list because we've become part of their
larger cross-posting, mutual-provocation network.

I tried like hell to stop Cliff from doing it, in public and in private. Now
he's gone, and it's running on its own inertia. Hammy keeps it fired up by
posting dozens of right-wing news stories every week. He won't stop, and he
doesn't appear to have a better nature to appeal to.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:L66dnVmLcfD8fjPTnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a
crossposted political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my
killfile . Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past ,
but this crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .


The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

There's a more direct connection, too. Gunner started cross-posting to
misc.survivalism and occasionally to a gun group; Cliff picked it up and
made it much worse, extending it to additional NGs; Hammy (under about a
dozen pseudonyms) decided to make life miserable for RCM because Cliff had
picked up misc.survivalism from Gunner and Hammy is a prick; and now RCM
is in every nutjobs' cross-posting list because we've become part of their
larger cross-posting, mutual-provocation network.

I tried like hell to stop Cliff from doing it, in public and in private.
Now he's gone, and it's running on its own inertia. Hammy keeps it fired
up by posting dozens of right-wing news stories every week. He won't stop,
and he doesn't appear to have a better nature to appeal to.



Well, I actually have an pretty active killfile myself, but it's mostly
limited to the very worst offenders and to those who NEVER seem to post
anything that's on-topic...which basically leaves me with only a handful

--many of whom probably rightly belong in a mental institution...and who
will probably be relegated to my killfile soon enough..

And though it's wrong, still it's oftentimes difficult to resist doing a bit
of teasing when one is visiting the primate exibit....

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
...


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:L66dnVmLcfD8fjPTnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a
crossposted political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my
killfile . Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past ,
but this crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .


The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

There's a more direct connection, too. Gunner started cross-posting to
misc.survivalism and occasionally to a gun group; Cliff picked it up and
made it much worse, extending it to additional NGs; Hammy (under about a
dozen pseudonyms) decided to make life miserable for RCM because Cliff had
picked up misc.survivalism from Gunner and Hammy is a prick; and now RCM
is in every nutjobs' cross-posting list because we've become part of their
larger cross-posting, mutual-provocation network.

I tried like hell to stop Cliff from doing it, in public and in private.
Now he's gone, and it's running on its own inertia. Hammy keeps it fired
up by posting dozens of right-wing news stories every week. He won't stop,
and he doesn't appear to have a better nature to appeal to.



Well, I actually have an pretty active killfile myself, but it's mostly
limited to the very worst offenders and to those who NEVER seem to post
anything that's on-topic...which basically leaves me with only a handful

--many of whom probably rightly belong in a mental institution...and who
will probably be relegated to my killfile soon enough..

And though it's wrong, still it's oftentimes difficult to resist doing a bit
of teasing when one is visiting the primate exibit....

================================================== ==============

They invite it. They love to provoke, and some of them have refined it into
an art.

--
Ed Huntress

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

Ideas gratefully entertained.

--Winston

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

Yuckin' Fuppies. "Only" $500 for a plastic tube! (Plus $6 for a small
pump, $3 for nutrients, and $5 for tubing, maybe?)


The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

Is ABS DWV (drain, waste, vent) food-safe? Please check into it if
you haven't already. I've only seen it used in drain, waste, and vent
plumbing so far.


The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

This appears to be quite similar to hydroponics, but the medium is
air, not water or soil. Check out green wall/vertical garden systems,
too. Much more pretty, so SWMBO may prefer it. YouTube is rife wif
'em.


Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

It appears that he had a constant drip system going.


Ideas gratefully entertained.

Or amusedly or cringingly?


--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

Yuckin' Fuppies. "Only" $500 for a plastic tube! (Plus $6 for a small
pump, $3 for nutrients, and $5 for tubing, maybe?)

At last, an acceptable profit margin.

(...)

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

Is ABS DWV (drain, waste, vent) food-safe? Please check into it if
you haven't already. I've only seen it used in drain, waste, and vent
plumbing so far.

I sure hope it is, given that it is used in the manufacture of
Lego bricks and musical instruments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

This appears to be quite similar to hydroponics, but the medium is
air, not water or soil. Check out green wall/vertical garden systems,
too. Much more pretty, so SWMBO may prefer it. YouTube is rife wif
'em.

The beauty of the tower is that I can move it easily
under cover for frost protection or for better sun exposure.


Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

It appears that he had a constant drip system going.

Ideally, the nutrient would be atomized.
This boosts the root uptake far more than would a conventional
drip system which would leave a large proportion of the roots
dry.


Ideas gratefully entertained.

Or amusedly or cringingly?

I can guarantee *some* reaction, most of the time.

--Winstondis

"Winston" wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a
crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

Sadly, it's pretty much the truth...

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

Ideas gratefully entertained.


Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and the
other various nasties.

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and the
other various nasties.

That'd be great, because the plants will be completely enclosed for
most of their lives. I notice that insects are completely baffled
by poly sheet.

Fungii, bacteria and viruses in the nutrient will be continuously
bombarded with UV-C in a stainless tub located in the base, so I'm
pretty confident that the nasties aren't going to be a problem.

I *am* still working on ventilation of both the growth column and
the 'leaf area' to provide CO2 to the leaves and 02 to the roots.

I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message ...

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and the
other various nasties.

That'd be great, because the plants will be completely enclosed for
most of their lives. I notice that insects are completely baffled
by poly sheet.

Fungii, bacteria and viruses in the nutrient will be continuously
bombarded with UV-C in a stainless tub located in the base, so I'm
pretty confident that the nasties aren't going to be a problem.

I *am* still working on ventilation of both the growth column and
the 'leaf area' to provide CO2 to the leaves and 02 to the roots.

I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.

--Winston

================================================== ====

Run the exhaust from your lawnmower in there. You'll have plenty of CO2, and
CO, and other stuff. d8-)

This is sounding an awful lot like some Frankensteinien experiment, Winnie.
Are you planning something really scary? Like a pumpkin with Republican
genes or something?

--
Ed Huntress

"Winston" wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and the
other various nasties.

That'd be great, because the plants will be completely enclosed for
most of their lives. I notice that insects are completely baffled
by poly sheet.


Pretty sure those nasties never got THAT memo...


Fungii, bacteria and viruses in the nutrient will be continuously
bombarded with UV-C in a stainless tub located in the base, so I'm
pretty confident that the nasties aren't going to be a problem.


That will probably be somewhat helpful

I *am* still working on ventilation of both the growth column and
the 'leaf area' to provide CO2 to the leaves and 02 to the roots.

The splash resulting from even a short drop into your nutrient tank will
dissolve plenty of oxygen in to it, and there's plenty of c02 in the
atmoshpere--likely any benefit from providing an accurately calibrated
additional percentage will be negligable...and in case you supply too much
well then put me on record as giving my condolences to your next of kin in
advance.


I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.


I think you are way over-complicating things..

We've been growing green beans, peppers and tomatoes well into early winter
in our 40 ft poly greenhouse, and salad greens and the other common winter
crops basically till early spring for many years--in three 4 x8 raised beds
that are made out of stacked cinder blocks and filled with regular
dirt.....and out of all the problems that could possibly come up, mice have
probably taken the biggest toll.

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Run the exhaust from your lawnmower in there. You'll have plenty of CO2,
and CO, and other stuff. d8-)

We could reveal sources for lies, debt and crime too.
(As you have!)

I don't require any more of those either, sadly.

This is sounding an awful lot like some Frankensteinien experiment,
Winnie.

You read me like book. 'The Impossible' is fascinating.

I *do* plan on screaming "It's ALIVE!" when I see my first
plantlike survivor.

My devious plan is to grow (most of) a few dinners.
An artichoke entree with spinach salad and sliced heirloom tomatoes.
Strawberries for dessert.

Are you planning something really scary? Like a pumpkin with
Republican genes or something?

Thanks for that, Ed. Made me laugh out loud it did!

I will carefully watch any pumpkin that toe-taps near
the zucchini.

--Winston

As a right wing, employed, Republican. The scarriest thing I
see are elected liberals.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Winston"
wrote in message ...


Are you planning something really scary? Like a pumpkin
with
Republican genes or something?

Thanks for that, Ed. Made me laugh out loud it did!

I will carefully watch any pumpkin that toe-taps near
the zucchini.

--Winston

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and the
other various nasties.

That'd be great, because the plants will be completely enclosed for
most of their lives. I notice that insects are completely baffled
by poly sheet.


Pretty sure those nasties never got THAT memo...

Most bugs are pretty harmless.
Though I am still surprised at the hornworm I
found on the only tomato plant in a half-mile radius
a few years ago. Still puzzles me.

Fungii, bacteria and viruses in the nutrient will be continuously
bombarded with UV-C in a stainless tub located in the base, so I'm
pretty confident that the nasties aren't going to be a problem.


That will probably be somewhat helpful

Here's hoping!

I *am* still working on ventilation of both the growth column and
the 'leaf area' to provide CO2 to the leaves and 02 to the roots.

The splash resulting from even a short drop into your nutrient tank will
dissolve plenty of oxygen in to it, and there's plenty of c02 in the
atmoshpere--likely any benefit from providing an accurately calibrated
additional percentage will be negligable...and in case you supply too much
well then put me on record as giving my condolences to your next of kin in
advance.

In the hydroponics book I am reading they say it is normal
to quadruple the amount of CO2 to the leaves, over the
naturally - occurring ratio of that gas.
I think I will try it out with the standard mix and see
what happens.

I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.


I think you are way over-complicating things..

Why are people always telling me that?

I want to recirculate the air to avoid thermal
stratification anyway. It'd be nifty to have
that little fan serve another purpose as well.

We've been growing green beans, peppers and tomatoes well into early winter
in our 40 ft poly greenhouse, and salad greens and the other common winter
crops basically till early spring for many years--in three 4 x8 raised beds
that are made out of stacked cinder blocks and filled with regular
dirt.....and out of all the problems that could possibly come up, mice have
probably taken the biggest toll.

Very cool! I am now officially inspired.


--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message ...

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Run the exhaust from your lawnmower in there. You'll have plenty of CO2,
and CO, and other stuff. d8-)

We could reveal sources for lies, debt and crime too.
(As you have!)

I don't require any more of those either, sadly.

This is sounding an awful lot like some Frankensteinien experiment,
Winnie.

You read me like book. 'The Impossible' is fascinating.

I *do* plan on screaming "It's ALIVE!" when I see my first
plantlike survivor.

If it says "Feed me, Winnie," run like hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU

My devious plan is to grow (most of) a few dinners.
An artichoke entree with spinach salad and sliced heirloom tomatoes.
Strawberries for dessert.

Are you planning something really scary? Like a pumpkin with
Republican genes or something?

Thanks for that, Ed. Made me laugh out loud it did!

I will carefully watch any pumpkin that toe-taps near
the zucchini.

--Winston

You don't want to start with one of those wide-stance pumpkins. They're too
hard to keep in line.

Bon appetit. If you figure out how to grow the whole salad one plant, let us
know. I can fix you up with a good marketing guy.

--
Ed Huntress

"Winston" wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

Your biggest problem will probably be biological--insects, fungus and
the
other various nasties.

That'd be great, because the plants will be completely enclosed for
most of their lives. I notice that insects are completely baffled
by poly sheet.


Pretty sure those nasties never got THAT memo...

Most bugs are pretty harmless.
Though I am still surprised at the hornworm I
found on the only tomato plant in a half-mile radius
a few years ago. Still puzzles me.

Fungii, bacteria and viruses in the nutrient will be continuously
bombarded with UV-C in a stainless tub located in the base, so I'm
pretty confident that the nasties aren't going to be a problem.


That will probably be somewhat helpful

Here's hoping!

I *am* still working on ventilation of both the growth column and
the 'leaf area' to provide CO2 to the leaves and 02 to the roots.

The splash resulting from even a short drop into your nutrient tank will
dissolve plenty of oxygen in to it, and there's plenty of c02 in the
atmoshpere--likely any benefit from providing an accurately calibrated
additional percentage will be negligable...and in case you supply too
much
well then put me on record as giving my condolences to your next of kin
in
advance.

In the hydroponics book I am reading they say it is normal
to quadruple the amount of CO2 to the leaves, over the
naturally - occurring ratio of that gas.
I think I will try it out with the standard mix and see
what happens.


All right but just you know I use it to force-carbonate beer with and IIRC
the last time they nicked me about $10 for a 5lb refill....

I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.


I think you are way over-complicating things..

Why are people always telling me that?


I would try and explain, but it gets kinda complicated...


I want to recirculate the air to avoid thermal
stratification anyway. It'd be nifty to have
that little fan serve another purpose as well.

We've been growing green beans, peppers and tomatoes well into early
winter
in our 40 ft poly greenhouse, and salad greens and the other common
winter
crops basically till early spring for many years--in three 4 x8 raised
beds
that are made out of stacked cinder blocks and filled with regular
dirt.....and out of all the problems that could possibly come up, mice
have
probably taken the biggest toll.

Very cool! I am now officially inspired.



Probably that's not such a good thing....

What I do is kill all crossposted messages,. Works like a charm.

I have nothing I want to discuss with misc.survivalist members.

i

On 2011-10-31, Snag wrote:
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile . Some
of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past , but this crap has
gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .

On 10/31/2011 06:57 PM, Winston wrote:

I don't suppose I could just pump the O2 from the leaves into the
growth column and allow the CO2 from the column into the 'leaf area'.

Could it be that simple? Hmmm.


I think you are way over-complicating things..

Why are people always telling me that?

I want to recirculate the air to avoid thermal
stratification anyway. It'd be nifty to have
that little fan serve another purpose as well.


I'm visualizing an old computer fan blowing
into a vertical PVC tube. Even a 40 mm fan
will move more air than you suspect.


technomaNge
--
Psalm 109:8

Ignoramus23114 wrote:
What I do is kill all crossposted messages,. Works like a charm.

I have nothing I want to discuss with misc.survivalist members.

i

I've been hittin' the "block sender" button pretty hard the last couple of
days . When I get one or two on topic posts to 10 or 12
political/racist/homosexual posts , it's time to clean house .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 2011-10-31, Snag wrote:
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a
crossposted political post will be joining the current inhabitants
of my killfile . Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in
the past , but this crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for
the metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much
...) but that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .

Misc Screwup has been a cesspool for many years. Sadly, so.
It used to be a viable usenet list.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus23114 wrote:
What I do is kill all crossposted messages,. Works like a
charm.

I have nothing I want to discuss with misc.survivalist
members.

i

I've been hittin' the "block sender" button pretty hard
the last couple of
days . When I get one or two on topic posts to 10 or 12
political/racist/homosexual posts , it's time to clean house
..

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 2011-10-31, Snag wrote:
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR*
*RESPONDING* to a
crossposted political post will be joining the current
inhabitants
of my killfile . Some of you have posted good info and
handy tips in
the past , but this crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm
here for
the metalworking content . You will be missed (some of
you not much
...) but that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .

Treaters are like popcorn. They slow down, but you're never
sure it's done. Well, at least with popcorn you can listen
for the smoke detector.

I had about 45 this year. About half were boys, other half,
well, guess. Other half were not boys.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

(...)

All right but just you know I use it to force-carbonate beer with and IIRC
the last time they nicked me about $10 for a 5lb refill....

I mean that I will try the 0.035% CO2 'standard mix'
first. That could change if I recycle the gases, though.

I'm gonna avoid buying bottled gas as long as I can.
That sixty smackers I paid for argon still smarts!

(...)

I think you are way over-complicating things..

Why are people always telling me that?


I would try and explain, but it gets kinda complicated...

Heh!

(...)

Very cool! I am now officially inspired.



Probably that's not such a good thing....

We shall see.

--Winston

technomaNge wrote:
On 10/31/2011 06:57 PM, Winston wrote:

(...)

I want to recirculate the air to avoid thermal
stratification anyway. It'd be nifty to have
that little fan serve another purpose as well.


I'm visualizing an old computer fan blowing
into a vertical PVC tube. Even a 40 mm fan
will move more air than you suspect.

OK, that is spooky.

I'm using a 12 V 'blower' style computer fan and
a 2" diameter ABS tube. At least for starters.

The plan is to vacuum the stratified air out
of the top of the leaf enclosure and distribute
it near the bottom so it warms the bottom leaves
during the winter. That turbulence should
also vent O2 away and make more CO2 available
to the leaves, I guess.

I suppose I will have to vent the top of the
nutrient column to allow O2 in and CO2 to exit
out of the nutrient tank overflow tube on the
bottom, too. It'll be interesting to see how
I do that while minimizing evaporation and
without allowing any light into the nutrient
column.

Fun Stuff!

--Winston

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:19:53 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
...


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:L66dnVmLcfD8fjPTnZ2dnUVZ_uKdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a
crossposted political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my
killfile . Some of you have posted good info and handy tips in the past ,
but this crap has gotten out of hand .
I don't come here to read about queers and racism , I'm here for the
metalworking content . You will be missed (some of you not much ...) but
that's the way it goes .

Thank you and have a nice day .


The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

There's a more direct connection, too. Gunner started cross-posting to
misc.survivalism and occasionally to a gun group; Cliff picked it up and
made it much worse, extending it to additional NGs; Hammy (under about a
dozen pseudonyms) decided to make life miserable for RCM because Cliff had
picked up misc.survivalism from Gunner and Hammy is a prick; and now RCM
is in every nutjobs' cross-posting list because we've become part of their
larger cross-posting, mutual-provocation network.

I tried like hell to stop Cliff from doing it, in public and in private.
Now he's gone, and it's running on its own inertia. Hammy keeps it fired
up by posting dozens of right-wing news stories every week. He won't stop,
and he doesn't appear to have a better nature to appeal to.



Well, I actually have an pretty active killfile myself, but it's mostly
limited to the very worst offenders and to those who NEVER seem to post
anything that's on-topic...which basically leaves me with only a handful

--many of whom probably rightly belong in a mental institution...and who
will probably be relegated to my killfile soon enough..

And though it's wrong, still it's oftentimes difficult to resist doing a bit
of teasing when one is visiting the primate exibit....

================================================= ===============

They invite it. They love to provoke, and some of them have refined it into
an art.


Set up a kill file that delete all posts to more then 2 groups. Agent
has the capability and it gets rid of the more obnoxious posts.


--
John B.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

Ideas gratefully entertained.

--Winston


Not being obnoxious but what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?


--
John B.

"John B." wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

Ideas gratefully entertained.

--Winston

Not being obnoxious but what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?


Older, non hybrid veggies.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:56:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Misc Screwup has been a cesspool for many years. Sadly, so.
It used to be a viable usenet list.


Yep, before all the spam from here started showing up there.

"Winston" wrote in message ...

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

If it says "Feed me, Winnie," run like hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SkrYF8lCU

Feet, don't fail me now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOdqr...eature=related

(...)

I will carefully watch any pumpkin that toe-taps near
the zucchini.

--Winston

You don't want to start with one of those wide-stance pumpkins. They're
too hard to keep in line.

The hypocritical twerps can be drummed out of office, however.

Bon appetit.

Thank you!

If you figure out how to grow the whole salad one plant,
let us know. I can fix you up with a good marketing guy.

This is 'as good as' for sure!

http://tinyurl.com/3odtcht

--Winston -- Wants to work at 'The Plant'.

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:48:39 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

Yuckin' Fuppies. "Only" $500 for a plastic tube! (Plus $6 for a small
pump, $3 for nutrients, and $5 for tubing, maybe?)

At last, an acceptable profit margin.

(...)

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

Is ABS DWV (drain, waste, vent) food-safe? Please check into it if
you haven't already. I've only seen it used in drain, waste, and vent
plumbing so far.

I sure hope it is, given that it is used in the manufacture of
Lego bricks and musical instruments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene

"food" and "safe" don't appear on that page at all. Me no think so.
Best research that little item, eh?


This appears to be quite similar to hydroponics, but the medium is
air, not water or soil. Check out green wall/vertical garden systems,
too. Much more pretty, so SWMBO may prefer it. YouTube is rife wif
'em.

The beauty of the tower is that I can move it easily
under cover for frost protection or for better sun exposure.

Could move? Yes.
Will move, in practice? Um, I doubt 'er, Biyull. /hic accent



Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

It appears that he had a constant drip system going.

Ideally, the nutrient would be atomized.
This boosts the root uptake far more than would a conventional
drip system which would leave a large proportion of the roots
dry.

What do the roots want, to be waterlogged or gasping in air?
Let us know what the planties say, OK?


Ideas gratefully entertained.

Or amusedly or cringingly?

I can guarantee *some* reaction, most of the time.

Rightio!


--Winstondis

? 'Splain, please.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:48:39 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

What do the roots want, to be waterlogged or gasping in air?
Let us know what the planties say, OK?

'Turns out the roots want to vent their waste gasses
and to get plenty of nutrients and oxygen.

Think of roots as the 'old people' of the vegetable
kingdom.

I can guarantee *some* reaction, most of the time.

Rightio!


--Winstondis

? 'Splain, please.

I have no idea! Must be 'digital static'.

--Winstondat

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:15:03 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:48:39 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

What do the roots want, to be waterlogged or gasping in air?
Let us know what the planties say, OK?

'Turns out the roots want to vent their waste gasses
and to get plenty of nutrients and oxygen.

Think of roots as the 'old people' of the vegetable
kingdom.

Oh. OK. walks away muttering


I can guarantee *some* reaction, most of the time.

Rightio!


--Winstondis

? 'Splain, please.

I have no idea! Must be 'digital static'.

--Winstondat

Winstoned, more likely.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?

Today's commercial vegetables have been developed/hybredized
to allow machine picking/processing, i.e. all ripen at the
same time, have a long shelf life after picking, high
resistance to rusts/blight/wilts and other diseases and are
tough to allow machine processing. A few minor
characteristics such as taste and aroma were lost.

For the home gardener the commercial characteristics are not
very useful, and the disease resistance is of minor concern
as the home gardener does not engage in mono culture or
raising acres upon acres of the same vegetables year after
year in the same location.

A cottage industry has developed to preserve the old
vegetable verities (and then divisions of the major seed
companiesjumped on the bandwagon). It is highly unlikely
you will be able to buy these in a super market. If you are
interested, some web sites for [hot] peppers and tomatoes
a (note that some of these may not be in the US)
http://seedrack.com/tomato.html?gcli...FQk65QodFjMtCQ
http://www.pepperjoe.com/
http://www.pennystomatoes.com/
http://www.burpee.com/heirloom-seeds-and-plants/
http://www.reimerseeds.com/
http://www.chillifarm.com/shiping_guide.asp
http://store.tomatofest.com/Heirloom..._Seeds_s/1.htm


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Oct 31, 9:48*pm, Benny Fishhole wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:56:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Misc Screwup has been a cesspool for many years. Sadly, so.
It used to be a viable usenet list.

Yep, before all the spam from here started showing up there.

Says Bennie the Conservative Sexual Pervert.

TMT

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:20:29 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Starting yesterday , anyone initiating *OR* *RESPONDING* to a crossposted
political post will be joining the current inhabitants of my killfile .

(...)

The Zombie nutjobs all came out of hiding when Obama got elected.

Nineteen minutes. That has to be some kind of record.

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

http://www.insideurbangreen.org/aeroponics/
Scroll about 25% down to play the video:
"CNN Covers The Rooftop Aeroponic Tower Gardens"

The frame will be primed - and - painted 1/2" square tube that'll
be pop riveted to corner connectors TIGed from 5/8" square tube.
I'll heat and stretch some 10 mil poly over the back, top and
front and fix it in place with riveted stretcher bars at the
base. I can retrofit a stouter cover in case the poly proves
too weak for the 'environmental challenges'.

The plants will sprout from a vertical piece of ABS DWV anchored
to the frame.

The side doors will be made the same way as the frame
from 1/2" square tube and gusseted 5/8" TIG'ed corner supports.
I hope that the corner gussets will keep the doors planar and
prevent them from 'potato chipping', especially after I stretch
the poly fabric over them.

Yesterday I devoured Les Bridgewood's _Hydroponics, soilless
gardening explained_ thoughtfully checked out of the county
library by SWMBO. I shall have to re-read it more carefully
over the next couple days.

Right now, I'm looking for some 12 V ~80 PSIG water pumps to
cycle at 4.2 milliHertz (a few aerosol spritz's every 4
minutes). I'd rather not be in the 'water pump business' so
a turnkey solenoid - driven pump would be super cool.

Perhaps something like this, with a solenoid pressing from
above:
http://www.seaquistperfect.com/PAGES...technical.html

Ideas gratefully entertained.

--Winston


Not being obnoxious but what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?

Monsanto and a number of other ag firms have developed seeds that will
grow a crop, and if the seeds are replanted..will not germinate. So you
are stuck purchasing seeds from your supplier, over and over and over
again for each crop you plan on growing. "New! Improved!! Geneticaly
Engineered for top production!!!"

For survivalists and small farmers...they are anithema. For if
Monsanto and the other suppliers go Poof!... there will be no crops
again from those seeds.

So Heirloom seeds..are those from plants that were NOT genetically
modified..and can be planted, harvested, and the seeds replanted,
harvested and so forth ad infinitum.

Heirloom seeds are what we survivalists and small farmers use.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

F. George McDuffee wrote:
what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?

Today's commercial vegetables have been developed/hybredized
to allow machine picking/processing, i.e. all ripen at the
same time, have a long shelf life after picking, high
resistance to rusts/blight/wilts and other diseases and are
tough to allow machine processing. A few minor
characteristics such as taste and aroma were lost.

Thanks for the links!

--Winston

"Michael A. Terrell" on Mon, 31 Oct 2011
22:33:51 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Not being obnoxious but what in the world are "heirloom veggies"?


Older, non hybrid veggies.

And there are "tons" of them. E.g. there are more varieties of
potatoes than Russets.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Winston on Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

Hmmm, sounds like a plan. I've a nice garden area - with sixty
foot poplars forty feet south of the garden area.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:34:06 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I've been in CAD for the last few days designing my aeroponics
tower. Hopefully, it'll allow me to grow heirloom veggies in
my tiny suburban back yard, by placing the plants several feet
in the air (where the sun *does* shine).

Hmmm, sounds like a plan. I've a nice garden area - with sixty
foot poplars forty feet south of the garden area.

Sounds perfect if you are on the equator or south of it.

--Winston

On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:14:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Set up a kill file that delete all posts to more then 2 groups. Agent
has the capability and it gets rid of the more obnoxious posts.

Don't you mean "more thAn 2 groups"

I have deleted crosspostingst long ago and no longer directly see
killfiled idiots, however there are still people who are goaded into
replying to anything crossposted to them and if the post has an
interesting title then I open it and see the idiots words. If people
would not reply to political posts or anything crossposted on RCM then
most would die off.

How would you Seps like it if we Australians on RCM were to
continually waffle on about the red headed witch from hell or the boy
athlete.

The RHWFH is actively engaged in deforestation as she carries a
couple of logs on her shoulder and the BA is no better and could be
the lesser of 2 evils, but only by a poofteenth.

Alan