pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.



--Winston

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?



--Winston
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

In article ,
says...

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?

Hey, that addresses one issue--if you've got braids in it it looks like
you _mean_ to have it. One dealkiller IMO is the guys who show up with
the kind of beard that looks like they forgot to shave.

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

(...)

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.



--Winston

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:11:30 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?

Right. Either one. wink

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:11:30 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?



--Winston

Nor is a pony tail and a gold skull and crossbones pierced earring?

Damn.


--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Gunner Asch on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 21:26:15 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:11:30 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?



--Winston

Nor is a pony tail and a gold skull and crossbones pierced earring?

All depends. I heard of a guy who wrote out his resume in pencil,
on a kid's tablet. Went to the interview in jeans, tee shirt, and
articulated 'Day of the Dead' skeleton earring (back when such things
were still fringe.) I understand he did rake out the beard and pony
tale.
They hired him, at 60k. In 1984 dollars.

But then again, they were head hunting him; they wanted him. They
were willing to put up with any "personal quirks" to get his skills. I
suspect he did it that away, too see if they could work with someone
of his high geekiness.

I have learned that in some areas, the person you 'want' has,
sometimes, has .... "unique" personality traits. They do the job
really, really, really well ... but on their terms or not at all. Like
the guy who got the promotion to the outside office. Which he
promptly covered in tin foil, to block the sunshine - he did all
programming by the light of the monitor.
Unfortunately, I don't have those sorts of mad skills, so I have
to act like normal people.
--
pyotr filipivich
Friends help you move, good friends help you move bodies. Really good
friends remove bodies, bloodstains and hot cars, then collect the IDs,
weapons and useful stuff." _After the Dragon's Egg_, the unbegun novel.

Winston on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

(...)

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.



--Winston
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"J. Clarke" on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:39:40 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
In article ,
says...

Winston on Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:11:14 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I got this in the Email:

Manufacturing Job Fair

Come meet companies with job openings
· Bring your resume
· Dress professionally
· Prepare to interview

Great, cool, groovy. But what does it mean "dress professionally"?

Simple. Don't be over 20 years of age when you arrive.

So tiny braids in the greybeard is prpbably not on?

Hey, that addresses one issue--if you've got braids in it it looks like
you _mean_ to have it. One dealkiller IMO is the guys who show up with
the kind of beard that looks like they forgot to shave.

I didn't forget to shave, I just haven't ...

My girlfriend likes my beard. I'm afraid to tell her, I didn't so
much "grow a beard" as "not shave" for six months.


--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.


--Winston

On 2011-07-26, Winston wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

Winston, academic research agrees with you in that interviews are
usually worthless.

What I try to do at interviews is to gauge the technical skill of the
applicant.

i

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Ignoramus7018 wrote:
On 2011-07-26, wrote:

(...)

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

Winston, academic research agrees with you in that interviews are
usually worthless.

What I try to do at interviews is to gauge the technical skill of the
applicant.

Except for the ones who slouch of course.



And we've all run into the occasional employee who
'interviewed well' but is nonetheless poisonous.

In my experience, managers tend to select people who they
feel that they can easily control. The productivity
and happiness of the company aren't anywhere near their
agenda.

Obviously, there have been exceptions to that generality.

Historically speaking. In the past. Previously.

--Winston

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:43:45 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Yes, that's true, but if you're hiring technical folks you need to
have someone technical participating in the interview. I like to ask
questions like (reading from resume) "last year you did ..., could you
just draw a block diagram on the whiteboard of the ...", or "could you
explain how you chose the ... for the ...". It instantly exposes
folks that claim all sorts of things that they never did.. perhaps
they "participated" in a project but did not have the level of
responsibility they claim (and unfortunately there are MANY such
people, and they tend to get through the filters because they are more
than willing to bend the truth).

Spehro Pefhany on Tue, 26 Jul 2011
10:28:06 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:43:45 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Yes, that's true, but if you're hiring technical folks you need to
have someone technical participating in the interview. I like to ask
questions like (reading from resume) "last year you did ..., could you
just draw a block diagram on the whiteboard of the ...", or "could you
explain how you chose the ... for the ...". It instantly exposes
folks that claim all sorts of things that they never did.. perhaps
they "participated" in a project but did not have the level of
responsibility they claim (and unfortunately there are MANY such
people, and they tend to get through the filters because they are more
than willing to bend the truth).

"Experienced with MS Office Suite" (But I don't use it often,
prefer not to, don't like it, consider it a collection of bloatware.)

There is, to me, a difference between "I have done X, and can do
X, but have no interest in doing X if I don't have to", and "I've done
X and like doing it."

Or as I once pondered "the difference between being lazy, and
patient, is ...?" whether what you're "not doing" is advantageous.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

(...)

Or as I once pondered "the difference between being lazy, and
patient, is ...?" whether what you're "not doing" is advantageous.


I'm updating my resume: "...Extremely patient"!



--Winston --- Whoa. Thanks for that!

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:43:45 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Ayup...pretty true indeed.

Good analogy.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

In article ,
what says...

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:43:45 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Yes, that's true, but if you're hiring technical folks you need to
have someone technical participating in the interview. I like to ask
questions like (reading from resume) "last year you did ..., could you
just draw a block diagram on the whiteboard of the ...", or "could you
explain how you chose the ... for the ...". It instantly exposes
folks that claim all sorts of things that they never did.. perhaps
they "participated" in a project but did not have the level of
responsibility they claim (and unfortunately there are MANY such
people, and they tend to get through the filters because they are more
than willing to bend the truth).

Just make sure that they're the ones doing the bending. One time I got
totally blindsided in an interview--the guy started asking me questions
that I had no idea what he was talking about--finally got him to show me
the piece of paper he had in front of him--some headhunter had retyped
my resume and apparently halfway through changed to somebody else's.
Needless to say I didn't get that job.

"J. Clarke" on Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:29:03 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:43:45 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
on Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:14:08 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

(...)

No problem. Just leave grandpappy and his braids in the car.

LOL.

I resemble that remark.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a manager of a group
of four people about 'interview skill'.
She told me that her most valuable employees are precisely
those that interviewed the *worst*. She has two in
particular that are smart, hard working, trustworthy and
valuable. The first is not particularly articulate in
an interview setting and the second insisted on asking
questions about benefits and vacation time!

I think the interview appeals to our Western
Linear Thinking. Unfortunately it may not be nearly
as valuable as we think it is.

One problem with is is that the people conducting the interview don't do
interviewing for a living so they're as lost as the interviewee.

A person who interviews well treats it as a sale, presents a successful
pitch, and closes the deal, which is fine if you're hiring salesmen.

Took me a long time to figure this out.

Yes, that's true, but if you're hiring technical folks you need to
have someone technical participating in the interview. I like to ask
questions like (reading from resume) "last year you did ..., could you
just draw a block diagram on the whiteboard of the ...", or "could you
explain how you chose the ... for the ...". It instantly exposes
folks that claim all sorts of things that they never did.. perhaps
they "participated" in a project but did not have the level of
responsibility they claim (and unfortunately there are MANY such
people, and they tend to get through the filters because they are more
than willing to bend the truth).

Just make sure that they're the ones doing the bending. One time I got
totally blindsided in an interview--the guy started asking me questions
that I had no idea what he was talking about--finally got him to show me
the piece of paper he had in front of him--some headhunter had retyped
my resume and apparently halfway through changed to somebody else's.
Needless to say I didn't get that job.

I actually had the line "Does anyone really understand SPC? But
I am knowledgeable about it." in one of my resumes.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!