On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

I couldn't have said it better. My question was going to be, "So, somebody
went to each of those hives that all the bees disappeared from and stuck
their mobile phone under it?

Well, don't do that! Duh!

Thanks,
Rich

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

No only does the experiment sound a little less than rigorous, the
journalism (if you can call it that) of the sensationlist press is also at
fault Here is a article about how this story was spread and distorted and
how each "news" organization cribbed from the other:
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/12/...e-meme-spread/

With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

On Sun, 15 May 2011 01:24:24 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

No only does the experiment sound a little less than rigorous, the
journalism (if you can call it that) of the sensationlist press is also at
fault Here is a article about how this story was spread and distorted and
how each "news" organization cribbed from the other:
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/12/...e-meme-spread/

With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

Don Foreman wrote:
If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

I was wondering about that as well. We already have research which shows
the effect of a cellphone being in close proximity to a human brain
(http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/305/8/808 ), but beehives in the wild
generally aren't subject to the point source of a cellphone.

Perhaps a better test would be to install a cellphone tower out in the
boonies and see how it affected existing beehives.

Jon

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.


This is interesting, since bumblebees do not form hives. They form nests of
up to 50 individuals, and the nests are usually cavities left from some
burrowing animal or a void in a structure. Sometimes the nest is only one
family of less than a dozen individuals. How would one put a cell phone
under a "hive" that is a tunnel in the ground? Dig it up? Wouldn't that
disturb the bees, and then the cell phone gets blamed for everything.

TrollOMeter rating 1.

Steve

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

I think the experiment is a very good step. I think a good analogy is the
diff between acute radiation poisoning and low level radiation poisoning.
Saturated airwaves with this microwave bull**** could indeed have subtly
disrupting effect, enough to affect navigation behaviors which could affect
hive viability.

Scare tactics by FauxNews and similar lowbrow unethical media? No doubt.
But as gunner reiterated, the bees apparently are disappearing, and yer
friendly CorPirate Monsanto already has an ass-seeking mega-chubby, aimed
right for our collective food-requiring asses.

The executives of Monsanto need to be tried for treason, and executed.
--
EA

On Sun, 15 May 2011 01:17:34 -0500, the renowned Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

Funny. Blackberries and iPhones dramatically affect the productivity
of teenagers, I've noticed. Maybe it's the bee-like buzzing every
minute or two?

Perhaps it should be mentioned that the power of a transmitter at any
reasonable distance falls at least with the square of the distance
from the antenna.

Also, wavelength of cellphone frequencies is something like 6", which
is rather smaller than any bee I've seen ;-) .. so they can't really
absorb much with their entire bodies, let alone with some portion of
their bodies. AFAIK, we've not positively identified much in the way
of biological effects of non-ionizing radiation other than that
related to heating.

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

It's far more likely that there is some chemical (eg. pesticide)
effect at work. We're deliberately distributing chemicals into the
environment that kill bugs we don't like, and bees are bugs too
(albeit very useful ones to us). Approaching one POUND of pesticide
for every living human being every single year, worldwide (and more
than 3x that in the US). Tap water in Europe has a slightly bitter
flavor because of pesticides in agricultural runoff, and the ROW is
wanting to catch up and grow enough food for their own populations and
to export.

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/pestsale...1.htm#table3_1




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sun, 15 May 2011 05:48:31 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

I was wondering about that as well. We already have research which shows
the effect of a cellphone being in close proximity to a human brain
(http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/305/8/808 ), but beehives in the wild
generally aren't subject to the point source of a cellphone.

Perhaps a better test would be to install a cellphone tower out in the
boonies and see how it affected existing beehives.

Jon

You mean like the many many thousands of cellphone towers all over ag
land?

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Sun, 15 May 2011 08:01:37 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:



"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.


This is interesting, since bumblebees do not form hives. They form nests of
up to 50 individuals, and the nests are usually cavities left from some
burrowing animal or a void in a structure. Sometimes the nest is only one
family of less than a dozen individuals. How would one put a cell phone
under a "hive" that is a tunnel in the ground? Dig it up? Wouldn't that
disturb the bees, and then the cell phone gets blamed for everything.

TrollOMeter rating 1.

Steve

Steve..the bees in question were not "bumblebees" but hive dwelling
agricultural type bees. I simply used Bumblebees as a slang term

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:57:35 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

I think the experiment is a very good step. I think a good analogy is the
diff between acute radiation poisoning and low level radiation poisoning.
Saturated airwaves with this microwave bull**** could indeed have subtly
disrupting effect, enough to affect navigation behaviors which could affect
hive viability.

Scare tactics by FauxNews and similar lowbrow unethical media? No doubt.
But as gunner reiterated, the bees apparently are disappearing, and yer
friendly CorPirate Monsanto already has an ass-seeking mega-chubby, aimed
right for our collective food-requiring asses.

The executives of Monsanto need to be tried for treason, and executed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

http://news.discovery.com/animals/ho...a-problem.html

http://news.discovery.com/animals/th...ring-bees.html

etc etc

We can survive nicely with all the Leftwingers gone. When the bees
die...we are indeed in deep ****.


--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2011 01:24:24 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Don wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

No only does the experiment sound a little less than rigorous, the
journalism (if you can call it that) of the sensationlist press is also at
fault Here is a article about how this story was spread and distorted and
how each "news" organization cribbed from the other:
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/12/...e-meme-spread/

With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner


The most likely cause of the bees disappearing is the use of the newer
insecticides that are nicotine based products. The bees loose their
ability to return to the hive and the colony dies. The nicotine based
products work on the nervous system. Ever notice your hands cramping up
about a half hour after you ate some fruit or vegetables?

John

On Sun, 15 May 2011 21:39:06 -0400, the renowned John
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2011 01:24:24 -0700, "anorton"
wrote:


"Don wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 May 2011 09:54:38 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...s-study-finds/

Interesting and VERY distressing if true.

We cannot afford to lose the bees....

"Dr. Daniel Favre, a former biologist with the Swiss Federal Institute
of Technology in Lausanne, Switzerland, carefully placed a mobile
phone underneath a beehive and then monitored the reaction of the
workers."

"This study shows that the presence of an active mobile phone disturbs
bees -- and has a dramatic effect," Favre told the Daily Mail.

If Dr. Favre carefully placed a glowing crucible of molten steel under
the hive and found that this disturbed the worker bees, would this
prove that steel production is damaging the bee population?

It seems evident why Dr. Favre is a *former* biologist with etc etc.

No only does the experiment sound a little less than rigorous, the
journalism (if you can call it that) of the sensationlist press is also at
fault Here is a article about how this story was spread and distorted and
how each "news" organization cribbed from the other:
http://cleantechnica.com/2011/05/12/...e-meme-spread/

With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner


The most likely cause of the bees disappearing is the use of the newer
insecticides that are nicotine based products. The bees loose their
ability to return to the hive and the colony dies. The nicotine based
products work on the nervous system. Ever notice your hands cramping up
about a half hour after you ate some fruit or vegetables?

John

Interesting. I got some allegedly organic apples recently that had a
very bitter taste on the skin.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

The incomparable Spehro Pefhany wrote:

(...)

Also, wavelength of cellphone frequencies is something like 6", which
is rather smaller than any bee I've seen

Rather larger, yes? (Shudder)

(...)

AFAIK, we've not positively identified much in the way
of biological effects of non-ionizing radiation other than that
related to heating.

There is Dr. Ross Adey's work.

http://tinyurl.com/5uex5tj

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...699-3/fulltext

"Many argue that it is necessary to show a thermal effect before it is
possible to show a physiological one. But, “I think that Adey is going
to posthumously win that argument”, Hanley told The Lancet"

--Winston

On Sun, 15 May 2011 21:39:06 -0400, John wrote:


With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner


The most likely cause of the bees disappearing is the use of the newer
insecticides that are nicotine based products. The bees loose their
ability to return to the hive and the colony dies. The nicotine based
products work on the nervous system. Ever notice your hands cramping up
about a half hour after you ate some fruit or vegetables?

John

No, I havent.

Gunner

--
"If I say two plus two is four and a Democrat says two plus two is eight,
it's not a partial victory for me when we agree that two plus two is
six. " Jonah Goldberg (modified)

On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 21:39:06 -0400, John wrote:


With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner


The most likely cause of the bees disappearing is the use of the newer
insecticides that are nicotine based products. The bees loose their
ability to return to the hive and the colony dies. The nicotine based
products work on the nervous system. Ever notice your hands cramping up
about a half hour after you ate some fruit or vegetables?

John

No, I havent.

Gunner

Me either, and I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables.

Would you attribute any significance to my patting my shirt pocket
after eating fruits and veggies?

On Tue, 17 May 2011 02:03:32 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:03:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 21:39:06 -0400, John wrote:


With reporting this bad, it is really hard to know if the research was any
good or not and what it actually proved.

True enough. But the fact remains..bees are disappearing at an alarming
rate. Feel free to google this.

Gunner


The most likely cause of the bees disappearing is the use of the newer
insecticides that are nicotine based products. The bees loose their
ability to return to the hive and the colony dies. The nicotine based
products work on the nervous system. Ever notice your hands cramping up
about a half hour after you ate some fruit or vegetables?

John

No, I havent.

Gunner

Me either, and I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables.

Would you attribute any significance to my patting my shirt pocket
after eating fruits and veggies?

Checking for heart beat?
--
Boris

Don Foreman wrote:

Would you attribute any significance to my patting my shirt pocket
after eating fruits and veggies?

Only that you're a quitter, who desires smoking pleasure despite the
guilt-tripping of the cult of antismokerism.

Hope This Helps!
Rich