I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

On Apr 11, 8:15*pm, Bob La Londe wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. *The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. *Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. *Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? *A grade 5? *Never mind grade 2.
* Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ

On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

Aha. Here's a precipitation-hardening bolt (17-4 PH) that claims to be as
strong as Grade 8:

http://stainlessbits.com/link5.html

There appear to be many others, including 400 Series quenched-and-tempered,
but cast a skeptical eye. A Google search on "high strength stainless
fasteners," without quotes, turned up a bunch of sources.

There's also a standard for them -- ASTM F593 -- that relates the strength
of stainless fasteners to those of carbon and alloy steels.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:15:19 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

You can get 17-4 PH stainless fasteners from McMaster that have
approximately the same tensile strength as grade 8 screws. Only $7.06
_each_ for a 3/8-16x1 hex head cap screw. Even MIL spec 18-8 and 300
series stainless fasteners have approximately the same tensile
strength as grade 2 fasteners. There's probably nothing wrong with the
"Hillman crap."

--
Ned Simmons

Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their
stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind
grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that
is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to
indicate that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that
so far are metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8.
I've seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8,
a big difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:15:19 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

You can get 17-4 PH stainless fasteners from McMaster that have
approximately the same tensile strength as grade 8 screws. Only $7.06
_each_ for a 3/8-16x1 hex head cap screw. Even MIL spec 18-8 and 300
series stainless fasteners have approximately the same tensile
strength as grade 2 fasteners. There's probably nothing wrong with the
"Hillman crap."

LOL. All Hillman stuff unless labeled otherwise is grade 2 or worse.
(mostly a lot worse) As somebody who has been shooting screws my entire
life for various applications I never saw so many broken screws until
Hillman started dominating the market with their "we will fill it for you"
marketing. Its easier for resellers, but point blank package screws were a
lot better quality 20 years ago.

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless
is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade
2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8. I've
seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8, a big
difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

Ok.... now I have my two grades. LOL. 316 is about Grade 5, and 17-4 is
about Grade 8. I am guessing the 316 would be full hardness to make grade 5
since it's a work hardening spring steel stainless.

Thanks guys.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 06:48:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:



Ok.... now I have my two grades. LOL. 316 is about Grade 5, and 17-4 is
about Grade 8. I am guessing the 316 would be full hardness to make grade 5
since it's a work hardening spring steel stainless.

Thanks guys.



A typical 316 SS screw has a tensile strength comparable to a grade 2
carbon steel fastener, around 70,000 psi.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 06:48:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:



Ok.... now I have my two grades. LOL. 316 is about Grade 5, and 17-4 is
about Grade 8. I am guessing the 316 would be full hardness to make grade
5
since it's a work hardening spring steel stainless.

Thanks guys.



A typical 316 SS screw has a tensile strength comparable to a grade 2
carbon steel fastener, around 70,000 psi.

So are you saying that 18-8 which is a the most common stainless hardware is
even lower strength than grade 2?

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless
is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade
2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8. I've
seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8, a big
difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

Now according to this chart 18-8 is about the same as grade 5.
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-chart.aspx

From what I have seen 18-8 is supposed to be the most common stainless for
bolts, but that means the stuff at the local boxes must be something else
because it breaks a lot easier than a grade 5 bolt. Which is what started
this conversation.

Sigh. Back to square one.

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless
is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade
2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8. I've
seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8, a big
difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

This person claims some, but not all 316 bolts are close, but slightly less
tensile strength than grade 5.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Stainless-Bo...00000001623345

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:16:49 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 06:48:05 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:



Ok.... now I have my two grades. LOL. 316 is about Grade 5, and 17-4 is
about Grade 8. I am guessing the 316 would be full hardness to make grade
5
since it's a work hardening spring steel stainless.

Thanks guys.



A typical 316 SS screw has a tensile strength comparable to a grade 2
carbon steel fastener, around 70,000 psi.

So are you saying that 18-8 which is a the most common stainless hardware is
even lower strength than grade 2?

I'm saying I don't think you can count on common 18-8, 304, or 316
fasteners to be any stronger than grade 2. Individual lots or samples
may be either side of grade 2's, but absent some sort of spec beyond a
simple material designation, there are no guarantees.

--
Ned Simmons

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank
the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their
stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade
2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts.
In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either
a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8. I've
seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8, a big
difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

Now according to this chart 18-8 is about the same as grade 5.
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-chart.aspx

From what I have seen 18-8 is supposed to be the most common stainless for
bolts, but that means the stuff at the local boxes must be something else
because it breaks a lot easier than a grade 5 bolt. Which is what started
this conversation.

Sigh. Back to square one.

"18-8" is a generic name for basic austenitic stainless steel -- something
like 303 - 304, but not necessarily. It is not a technical
specification, only an indication that it contains 18% chromium and 8%
nickel. The rest of the alloy is up for grabs.

When you see 18-8 used to describe kitchen utensils or flatware, you know
only that it's basic stainless. If you see it used to describe fasteners or
other technical items, you know either that (1) the seller doesn't know
which way is up; (2) the seller doesn't know what the hell the material is;
or (3) the seller knows what it is, but it's so bad that he doesn't want to
tell you.

--
Ed Huntress

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank
the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their
stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade
2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts.
In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either
a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8. I've
seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8, a big
difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

This person claims some, but not all 316 bolts are close, but slightly
less tensile strength than grade 5.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Stainless-Bo...00000001623345

It depends entirely on the degree of work-hardening applied to the bolt, and
there is no standard for designating it. Annealed, 316 has about 30 ksi
yield and 75 ksi ultimate tensile strength. (weak for steel) Cold-drawn wire
runs up to 95 ksi ultimate tensile. When you make a bolt from it, it's
generally cold-headed and roll-threaded. The strength varies all over the
bolt because of the uneven cold-working.

You can't heat-treat 316, except to anneal it.

Hi-strength stainless bolts are made from heat-treatable grades, either
400-series (such as 420 or 440), or precipitation-hardening grades (17-4
PH). You can harden 17-4 PH close to 200 ksi tensile. They cost a bundle
compared to ordinary bolts.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank
the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their
stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind
grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts.
In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is
the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either
a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to indicate
that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that so far are
metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8.
I've seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8,
a big difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

This person claims some, but not all 316 bolts are close, but slightly
less tensile strength than grade 5.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Stainless-Bo...00000001623345

It depends entirely on the degree of work-hardening applied to the bolt,
and there is no standard for designating it. Annealed, 316 has about 30
ksi yield and 75 ksi ultimate tensile strength. (weak for steel)
Cold-drawn wire runs up to 95 ksi ultimate tensile. When you make a bolt
from it, it's generally cold-headed and roll-threaded. The strength varies
all over the bolt because of the uneven cold-working.

You can't heat-treat 316, except to anneal it.

Hi-strength stainless bolts are made from heat-treatable grades, either
400-series (such as 420 or 440), or precipitation-hardening grades (17-4
PH). You can harden 17-4 PH close to 200 ksi tensile. They cost a bundle
compared to ordinary bolts.

Thanks. Sometimes a "Grade 8" is the bolt for the job, and sometimes a
"Grade 5" is better. I was hoping to find an equivalent for both, but that
seems to be not practical. Grade 2 is rarely the best choice except as a
shear bolt on farm equipment. Looks like I have the choice of going with
quality (ARP) or unknown when it comes to stainless but no other way to
grade.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
On 4/11/2011 8:29 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Bob La wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank
the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their
stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades
equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind
grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts.
In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that
is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt --
either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.


I did find some reference in a UK welding group that seemed to
indicate that A4-80 was close, but the only bolts I've found in that
so far are metric.


IIRC A4 is 316 and those fasteners won't be anywhere near a grade 8.
I've seen someone recently confuse metric 8.8 designation with grade 8,
a big difference. An 8.8 fastener is about the same as a grade 5.

This person claims some, but not all 316 bolts are close, but slightly
less tensile strength than grade 5.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Stainless-Bo...00000001623345

It depends entirely on the degree of work-hardening applied to the bolt,
and there is no standard for designating it. Annealed, 316 has about 30
ksi yield and 75 ksi ultimate tensile strength. (weak for steel)
Cold-drawn wire runs up to 95 ksi ultimate tensile. When you make a bolt
from it, it's generally cold-headed and roll-threaded. The strength
varies all over the bolt because of the uneven cold-working.

You can't heat-treat 316, except to anneal it.

Hi-strength stainless bolts are made from heat-treatable grades, either
400-series (such as 420 or 440), or precipitation-hardening grades (17-4
PH). You can harden 17-4 PH close to 200 ksi tensile. They cost a bundle
compared to ordinary bolts.

Thanks. Sometimes a "Grade 8" is the bolt for the job, and sometimes a
"Grade 5" is better. I was hoping to find an equivalent for both, but
that seems to be not practical. Grade 2 is rarely the best choice except
as a shear bolt on farm equipment. Looks like I have the choice of going
with quality (ARP) or unknown when it comes to stainless but no other way
to grade.

Stainless presents one issue that may or may not be important in a given
application. The issue is elongation; when weaker bolts are better in an
application, it's usually because their greater elongation -- their ability
to stretch, plastically, or to bend -- is important because of the nature of
the load.

Austenitic stainless -- the 300 series -- is not very strong in terms of
ultimate tensile strength, but a combination of good basic elongation,
combined with pretty extreme work-hardening ability, produces a very big
spread between yield strength and ultimate tensile strength. This can be
very useful in those applications where a bolt may be overloaded and should
yield, rather than break. A slightly bigger bolt of a weaker material may
substantially outperform a smaller but higher-strength bolt.

The hardenable grades of martensitic (400 Series) and
precipitation-hardening stainless *can* have very good elongation, but you
have to check the specs on specific grades if it's an important issue for
you. The elongation of regular alloy steel bolts is well-known and widely
published, if you want to compare them.

Otherwise, it's mostly a matter of how much money you want to spend for the
sake of corrosion resistance.

--
Ed Huntress

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:15:19 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

You can get 17-4 PH stainless fasteners from McMaster that have
approximately the same tensile strength as grade 8 screws. Only $7.06
_each_ for a 3/8-16x1 hex head cap screw. Even MIL spec 18-8 and 300
series stainless fasteners have approximately the same tensile
strength as grade 2 fasteners. There's probably nothing wrong with the
"Hillman crap."

LOL. All Hillman stuff unless labeled otherwise is grade 2 or worse.
(mostly a lot worse) As somebody who has been shooting screws my entire
life for various applications I never saw so many broken screws until
Hillman started dominating the market with their "we will fill it for you"
marketing. Its easier for resellers, but point blank package screws were a
lot better quality 20 years ago.

agreed.

compare any old stock box of fasteners to what you get a home depot
these days.

Hell, even even for bulk wood bolts, I have to hand sort the stuff a high
percentage is just deformed.

On Apr 11, 9:15*pm, Bob La Londe wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. *The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. *Their stainless is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. *Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? *A grade 5? *Never mind grade 2.
* Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

With stainless, you can have corrosion resistance or you can have
strength,
just depends on what you really need. And if you need decorative with
strength,
look for chrome or nickel plate on a regular steel bolt. If you
really need corrosion
resistance with strength and a real properties sheet, you'll probably
end up with
aircraft-grade bolts from a real aircraft hardware supplier and also a
government-level price tag.
They'll probably have ground threads, too, along with more exotic
alloying elements.
If you gotta have them, that's one place to look. Hardware store
stainless is just to plug holes
and not rust in a year or two. Also to look hi-tech and shiny.

Re "18-8": That's a very old term for stainless, usually plastered on
tableware and kitchen utensils. Not hardenable and about the lowest
level of strength. Also non-magnetic. If you're fixing pots and
pans, that would be fine. Going to hang off of it 20 stories up, not
so great. Not a designation for any sort of mechanical properties.

Stan

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless
is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.

--
Ed Huntress

I'm afraid I'd have to agree, but you may not enjoy success buying such a
critter. However, if one chooses to make high strength stainless hardware,
you might consider exploring 17-4 PH, as well as 416 stainless. Each is heat
treatable. 416 is a sheer pleasure to machine, and capable of achieving a
Rockwell C hardness of 35. 17-4 PH can be considered a stainless
replacement for chrome moly (4140), and capable of achieving a tensile
strength of up to 200,000 psi, and a hardness of 44 Rc.

There are other options, including A286.

Harold

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:18:39 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
On 4/11/2011 8:17 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 11, 8:15 pm, Bob La wrote:
I have need of stainless for various applications and to be frank the
local stores just don't stock much. The box stores have a modest
selection, but its all no grade listed Hillman crap. Their stainless
is
worse than their packaged screws if that's possible.

I would like to have some idea what to search for for grades equivalent
to steel grades. Like what stainless bolt would I look for to be
roughly equal to a grade 8 steel bolt? A grade 5? Never mind grade 2.
Like I said, "the box stores have Hillman crap."

Bob

McMaster-Carr. mcmaster.com

Bob AZ


A search for "grade 8 stainless" on their site only shows hex nuts. In
the suggested search items it shows 18-8, but does not say if that is the
same strength as Grade 8 bolts.

It's not. Not even close.

I think that a Grade 8 in stainless is one very special bolt -- either a
44X-series or a precipitation-hardening grade.

--
Ed Huntress

I'm afraid I'd have to agree, but you may not enjoy success buying such a
critter. However, if one chooses to make high strength stainless hardware,
you might consider exploring 17-4 PH, as well as 416 stainless. Each is heat
treatable. 416 is a sheer pleasure to machine, and capable of achieving a
Rockwell C hardness of 35. 17-4 PH can be considered a stainless
replacement for chrome moly (4140), and capable of achieving a tensile
strength of up to 200,000 psi, and a hardness of 44 Rc.

There are other options, including A286.

Harold

Hmmm. I can't recall the grade of stainless we used in cell tooling,
but that sounds kind of familiar. Anybody know a SS that handles 700
C without losing too much strength? We used it to make all sorts of
tools for working in a very large experimental electrolytic cell.

I remember operating a clamshell bucket about 2' across, mounted on a
4" dia. piece of stainless. The clamshells had connecting rods to a
sliding collar which was actuated with other rods to pneumatic
cylinders 5 or six feet higher attached to the lifting bracket bolted
to the central shaft. The whole thing was suspended from the smaller
bridge crane in the building.

We'd remove a 6' on a side hatch over the sludge chamber, lower that
tool in after suitable heatup, flip a switch for the air solenoid on
the crane pendant, then raise the closed clamshell full of sludge and
molten salt and dump through a hatch into a sludge cart on rails
below. It was something to see at night, although certainly no steel
mill.

Made lots of other tools out of the stuff, too. Most stainless loses
a lot of strength at that temp.

Pete Keillor