So here is the recessed plate working:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

The double-sided sticky tape was just fine.
Facing off remains a bit of a mystery to me. last time I used a
similar cutter (BL instead of BR) the finish was somewhat smoother.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

Hard to tell from the photos.

I shall try a different cutter next time.

All in all I am pleased with the outcome. Total cost: $3.00 for the
aluminum plate and 4 screws. The faceplate was free.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:25:37 -0700, wrote:

So here is the recessed plate working:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

The double-sided sticky tape was just fine.
Facing off remains a bit of a mystery to me. last time I used a
similar cutter (BL instead of BR) the finish was somewhat smoother.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

Hard to tell from the photos.

I shall try a different cutter next time.

All in all I am pleased with the outcome. Total cost: $3.00 for the
aluminum plate and 4 screws. The faceplate was free.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
==========
Very nice work -- thanks for closing the loop.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:00:14 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

[...]

Very nice work -- thanks for closing the loop.


Thanks.

However, the loop will be closed when I have done a *second* piece in
this contraption. I don't know about you but I find that the dear Lord
gives me a pass with the first attempt at anything and screws me on
the next one :-)

It is amazing how often this holds true. To the point where I now tend
to do two of everything if possible.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Very nice setup, Michael.

There are some workholding clamps that grip laterally as the fastener is
tightened, which may work well for holding the rings by their edges.. while
allowing you to make light facing cuts.
Since the rings are captively held by the undercut, I wouldn't expect there
to be much likelyhood of clamping devices distorting the rings (WAG,
mostly).

There seems to be enough surface area around the threaded holes in the plate
to support those kinds of clamps, although the jaws of the clamps could
leave marks unless the tips of them were biting into brass shims (definite
maybe).
Grinding an appropriate radius into the clamp "jaws" could be worthwhile.

The types of clamps I'm thinking of (but can't remember the notable brand
name) could turn your workholding plate into a 3 or 4-jaw chuck, for that
specific size of rings.

Some metal blocks with screws in them (located around the ring area) could
potentially work about the same as those clamps, but screws perpendicular to
the lathe spindle's axis won't also push the workpieces into the workholding
plate.. which is what those clamps do.

--
WB
..........


wrote in message
...
So here is the recessed plate working:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

The double-sided sticky tape was just fine.
Facing off remains a bit of a mystery to me. last time I used a
similar cutter (BL instead of BR) the finish was somewhat smoother.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...n/photostream/

Hard to tell from the photos.

I shall try a different cutter next time.

All in all I am pleased with the outcome. Total cost: $3.00 for the
aluminum plate and 4 screws. The faceplate was free.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:32:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The types of clamps I'm thinking of (but can't remember the notable brand
name) could turn your workholding plate into a 3 or 4-jaw chuck, for that
specific size of rings.
http://www.miteebite.com/


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:32:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The types of clamps I'm thinking of (but can't remember the notable brand
name) could turn your workholding plate into a 3 or 4-jaw chuck, for that
specific size of rings.
http://www.miteebite.com/

Forgot to include some retail outlets in prior post
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pro...mps+Mitee+Bite
http://tool.wttool.com/tools/Mitee%20Bite
http://www.newmantools.com/clamps/

for some user feedback see
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...te_clamps.html

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:00:14 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

[...]

Very nice work -- thanks for closing the loop.


Thanks.

However, the loop will be closed when I have done a *second* piece in
this contraption. I don't know about you but I find that the dear Lord
gives me a pass with the first attempt at anything and screws me on
the next one :-)

It is amazing how often this holds true. To the point where I now tend
to do two of everything if possible.

I caught a young hobbiest purchasing *one* op-amp at
an electronics shop. I opined that she should buy
five. Two to lose, One to burn up, one to use and
one backup. Luckily she laughed.

--Winston

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:27:39 -0700, Winston
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:00:14 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

[...]

Very nice work -- thanks for closing the loop.


Thanks.

However, the loop will be closed when I have done a *second* piece in
this contraption. I don't know about you but I find that the dear Lord
gives me a pass with the first attempt at anything and screws me on
the next one :-)

It is amazing how often this holds true. To the point where I now tend
to do two of everything if possible.

I caught a young hobbiest purchasing *one* op-amp at

OMG, Win. "Hobbyist", please.


an electronics shop. I opined that she should buy
five. Two to lose, One to burn up, one to use and
one backup. Luckily she laughed.

Five sounds about right.

--
Most people assume the fights are going to be the right versus the left,
but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
-- Jimmy Wales

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:32:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Very nice setup, Michael.

There are some workholding clamps that grip laterally as the fastener is
tightened, which may work well for holding the rings by their edges.. while
allowing you to make light facing cuts.
Since the rings are captively held by the undercut, I wouldn't expect there
to be much likelyhood of clamping devices distorting the rings (WAG,
mostly).

There seems to be enough surface area around the threaded holes in the plate
to support those kinds of clamps, although the jaws of the clamps could
leave marks unless the tips of them were biting into brass shims (definite
maybe).
Grinding an appropriate radius into the clamp "jaws" could be worthwhile.

The types of clamps I'm thinking of (but can't remember the notable brand
name) could turn your workholding plate into a 3 or 4-jaw chuck, for that
specific size of rings.

Some metal blocks with screws in them (located around the ring area) could
potentially work about the same as those clamps, but screws perpendicular to
the lathe spindle's axis won't also push the workpieces into the workholding
plate.. which is what those clamps do.

I had a look at some of them. Firstly, only the smallest ones would
hold the ring without sticking up above the surface of the ring and
interfering with facing. Secondly, the smallest ones have only very
limited range of gripping. Thirdly, there is the issue of centering
the workpiece accurately.

In the end I was not sure that they would not do the job any
differently than a 4-jaw chuck. Plus they would add complexity and
cost to the existing project (e.g. I doubt that I could get away with
just a 1/4" aluminum plate).

I am keeping them in mind for a similar project in the future, though.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

You nailed it again, George.. Toe clamp, and Mitee-Bite were the words I
wasn't remembering.

There are other manufacturers of toe clamps which work very well for a wide
variety of workholding tasks.

--
WB
..........


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:32:29 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The types of clamps I'm thinking of (but can't remember the notable brand
name) could turn your workholding plate into a 3 or 4-jaw chuck, for that
specific size of rings.
http://www.miteebite.com/

Forgot to include some retail outlets in prior post
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pro...mps+Mitee+Bite
http://tool.wttool.com/tools/Mitee%20Bite
http://www.newmantools.com/clamps/

for some user feedback see
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...te_clamps.html

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

The add-on fixturing plate gives you lots of options that a bare faceplate
doesn't offer (without more drilling of the faceplate, anyway).
A thicker fixturing plate would provide more workholding alternatives
without extending the workpiece as far from the spindle bearing that a
full-sized chuck would likely cause.
I think the faceplate solution saved you a lot of grief as far as minimizing
the potential for chatter, by keeping the workpieces close to the headstock
bearing (especially since the lathe doesn't have variable speed).

Complexity and expense nearly always enter into the equation for
convenience, it seems.. but hey, it's for the enjoyment of metalworking.

I haven't used double-sided tape for workholding, although I've seen that
it's a fairly common method.. but I think I'd feel more confident with
mechanical fasteners retaining the workpiece.
For the ultimate in precision (typically not my goal), having the workpiece
securely seated on a (clean) metal surface would insure that the workpiece
is precisely flat against the fixture plate/reference surface.

I did notice your excellent safety bar approach.. inexpensive and practical.
A soft tip on the end would ensure that the bar doesn't affect the spindle's
internal taper, in the unlikely event of an Oh **** incident.

With other workholding methods, centering shouldn't be an issue with the
shoulder of the fixture plate recess to accurately center the rings,
otherwise, adding a disk/ring in the ring I.D. area for other fixture plates
may work well.

I don't recall at which stage of the process you're finishing the I.D. of
the rings.

--
WB
..........


wrote in message
...

I had a look at some of them. Firstly, only the smallest ones would
hold the ring without sticking up above the surface of the ring and
interfering with facing. Secondly, the smallest ones have only very
limited range of gripping. Thirdly, there is the issue of centering
the workpiece accurately.

In the end I was not sure that they would not do the job any
differently than a 4-jaw chuck. Plus they would add complexity and
cost to the existing project (e.g. I doubt that I could get away with
just a 1/4" aluminum plate).

I am keeping them in mind for a similar project in the future, though.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:02:21 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:
snip
You nailed it again, George.. Toe clamp, and Mitee-Bite were the words I
wasn't remembering.

There are other manufacturers of toe clamps which work very well for a wide
variety of workholding tasks.
=========
Thanks for the kind words.

Here are some URLs that may give you some additional ideas.
[All it takes is money]

http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/inde...3B285352415559
http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/inde...252a5e435f5754
{could also be made to expand with set screw (or two) in
place of the SHCS -- looks like a fairly simple HSM project
if made in 2 pieces, possibly with a hex shank for easy
gripping in 3 jaw chuck -- be sure and pop a "dutchman" for
easier reclamping/centering.}
http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=1569
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=499&PMCTLG=00
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/cat...gory_id/18066/
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/cat...gory_id/18061/


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:02:59 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The add-on fixturing plate gives you lots of options that a bare faceplate
doesn't offer (without more drilling of the faceplate, anyway).
A thicker fixturing plate would provide more workholding alternatives
without extending the workpiece as far from the spindle bearing that a
full-sized chuck would likely cause.
I think the faceplate solution saved you a lot of grief as far as minimizing
the potential for chatter, by keeping the workpieces close to the headstock
bearing (especially since the lathe doesn't have variable speed).

Today I did the crucial second piece and learned more about the
process. As far as chatter goes there is a trade-off: Not getting
close enough to the work-piece makes the *tool* chatter. I could not
understand why I did not have chatter problems doing the ID on the
previous piece and could not get rid of it this time. Then I shortened
the (identical)_ boring bar as much as I could, running the plate
really close to the carriage, and voila! All was well.

Complexity and expense nearly always enter into the equation for
convenience, it seems.. but hey, it's for the enjoyment of metalworking.

Road with many curves leads to sheep losses (don't ask! :-)

I haven't used double-sided tape for workholding, although I've seen that
it's a fairly common method.. but I think I'd feel more confident with
mechanical fasteners retaining the workpiece.

Second piece held fine even as I got bolder with the depth of cut. I
did not even clamp this piece like the first one (the strength of the
adhesion of a double-sided sticky tape is given by the pressure
applied to the bond). I still had to heat it up with a heat gun to get
it off.

For the ultimate in precision (typically not my goal), having the workpiece
securely seated on a (clean) metal surface would insure that the workpiece
is precisely flat against the fixture plate/reference surface.

The tape is about 0.003" thick. Well beyond my requirements for
accuracy.

I did notice your excellent safety bar approach.. inexpensive and practical.
A soft tip on the end would ensure that the bar doesn't affect the spindle's
internal taper, in the unlikely event of an Oh **** incident.

The end goes nowhere near the spindle - just inside the opening. Like
yourself I did not want to risk spindle damage.

With other workholding methods, centering shouldn't be an issue with the
shoulder of the fixture plate recess to accurately center the rings,
otherwise, adding a disk/ring in the ring I.D. area for other fixture plates
may work well.

I don't recall at which stage of the process you're finishing the I.D. of
the rings.

AT this point it goes like this:

1) Turn OD to precisely 5.400"
2) If one side of the ring is reasonably flat, fix in the recessed
plate
3) Turn ID
4) Face off

2a) If neither ring side is reasonably flat (and there is a reason to
believe that it would not hold with the double-sided sticky tape) face
off in 3-jaw as far as possible
3a) Manually remove any excess metal near the ID which would prevent
it from seating in the recess (this may not be necessary in future as
I am turning a sort of "recess within recess" while I am boring the
ID)
4a) Proceed with (2)

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:47:56 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

[...]

Here are some URLs that may give you some additional ideas.
[All it takes is money]

http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/inde...3B285352415559
http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/inde...252a5e435f5754
{could also be made to expand with set screw (or two) in
place of the SHCS -- looks like a fairly simple HSM project
if made in 2 pieces, possibly with a hex shank for easy
gripping in 3 jaw chuck -- be sure and pop a "dutchman" for
easier reclamping/centering.}

Thes appeal to me in their simplicity. Sadly, all sizes are on back
order and hence no pricing info.

Bookmarked for future reference. Thanks.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC