Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_seam_fire

It seems unlikely that all the oxygen necessary to support that
level of combustion comes from 'ventilation' to atmosphere.

If so, I'd expect the intensity of the fire to 'bank and flare' at
some frequency as the level of oxygen changes with time, predicated
on the pneumatic resonant frequency of the cavity.

I wonder if the most persistent seam fires are enabled by chemical
oxidisers already in place?

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_seam_fire

It seems unlikely that all the oxygen necessary to support that
level of combustion comes from 'ventilation' to atmosphere.

If so, I'd expect the intensity of the fire to 'bank and flare' at
some frequency as the level of oxygen changes with time, predicated
on the pneumatic resonant frequency of the cavity.

I wonder if the most persistent seam fires are enabled by chemical
oxidisers already in place?

--Winston

All I know is that the sucker stinks. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_seam_fire

Oh, I forgot about Laurel Run, Pa. They had a fire but they were able to put
it out. But they had to move the town afterwards. g

That's another nice town. I raced there in the Giant's Despair Hillclimb a
couple of years, back in the '60s.

Those anthracite mining towns look different from the bituminous mining
towns in western Pa and WVa. Bituminous mining seems to leave a film of coal
dust over the whole town, and they look dingy. I remember Centralia, before
the fire started (1962) as a clean, bright little town.

When I first moved into the town I live in now, 33 years ago, the main coal
railroad out of the anthracite region was across the street and down a hill
from my house. A train would come through every few nights -- 100+ cars
heaped with anthracite. Man, those were heavy cars. The trains were going
maybe 15 mph but my whole end of town would shake. (The old right-of-way is
now a park.) The whole line, from its beginning in Pa to the docks about 5
miles away, supposedly ran downhill. They couldn't pull those coal cars
uphill.

anthracite anecdotes off

--
Ed Huntress



It seems unlikely that all the oxygen necessary to support that
level of combustion comes from 'ventilation' to atmosphere.

If so, I'd expect the intensity of the fire to 'bank and flare' at
some frequency as the level of oxygen changes with time, predicated
on the pneumatic resonant frequency of the cavity.

I wonder if the most persistent seam fires are enabled by chemical
oxidisers already in place?

--Winston

jim wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.

You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?

****, NO!!! I don't want the taxpayers stuck with funding ANYTHING, not
even Planned Parenthood!

Private investors won't put their money down

That's because of the mountains of red tape they'd have to plow through,
which was put in place by politicians, bureaucrats, and NIMBYs.

And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds

By taking over the schools (at YOUR expense) and turning them into
propaganda mills.

and how that ties into nuclear energy

The kids don't get a proper education - just "self-esteem" and socialist
propaganda.

Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

Next generation, yes. But that won't happen if they're programmed to
be just another generation of GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! liberals.

Thanks,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian

sounds more like richard the socialist.

You really don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you?

Thanks,
Rich

jim wrote:

The only way Nuclear power plants will be built in the US is if the
government is the party responsible to clean up the type of mess that is
now happening in Japan.

It's exceedingly unlikely that, for example, Monticello, Minnesota will
ever be subjected to an 8.9 earthquake and a 30-foot tsunami.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

John R. Carroll wrote:
jim" "sjedgingN0Sp wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.

You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?
Private investors won't put their money down

And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds
and how that ties into nuclear energy
Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

The thought of Richard expecting children is frightening enough and it
doesn't matter what they build.
LOL

Yup. standard Liberal/progressive - don't like the facts, go ad hominem.

Thanks for once again demonstrating the workings of the liberal alleged
mind.

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

jim wrote:
?
? The only way Nuclear power plants will be built in the US is if the
? government is the party responsible to clean up the type of mess that is
? now happening in Japan.

It's exceedingly unlikely that, for example, Monticello, Minnesota will
ever be subjected to an 8.9 earthquake and a 30-foot tsunami.

Hope This Helps!


Didn't help a bit
You still sound like a socialist

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:41:12 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

John R. Carroll wrote:
jim" "sjedgingN0Sp wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.

You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?
Private investors won't put their money down

And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds
and how that ties into nuclear energy
Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

The thought of Richard expecting children is frightening enough and it
doesn't matter what they build.
LOL

Yup. standard Liberal/progressive - don't like the facts, go ad hominem.

Thanks for once again demonstrating the workings of the liberal alleged
mind.

This just in from email:

--snip--
DOES THIS EXPLAIN LIBERALS TO YOU?

This is sheer genius

In a bid to stem taxpayer losses for bad loans guaranteed by federal
housing agencies Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac, Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn)
proposed that borrowers be required to make a 5% down payment in order
to qualify.

His proposal was rejected 57-42 on a party-line vote because, as
Senator Chris Dodd (D-Conn) explained, "passage of such a requirement
would restrict home ownership to only those who can afford it."

I can't add anything to this.
--snip--

--
Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.
-- Demosthenes

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:41:12 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

John R. Carroll wrote:
jim" "sjedgingN0Sp wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.

You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?
Private investors won't put their money down

And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds
and how that ties into nuclear energy
Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

The thought of Richard expecting children is frightening enough and it
doesn't matter what they build.
LOL

Yup. standard Liberal/progressive - don't like the facts, go ad hominem.

Thanks for once again demonstrating the workings of the liberal alleged
mind.

This just in from email:

--snip--
DOES THIS EXPLAIN LIBERALS TO YOU?

This is sheer genius

In a bid to stem taxpayer losses for bad loans guaranteed by federal
housing agencies Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac, Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn)
proposed that borrowers be required to make a 5% down payment in order
to qualify.

His proposal was rejected 57-42 on a party-line vote because, as
Senator Chris Dodd (D-Conn) explained, "passage of such a requirement
would restrict home ownership to only those who can afford it."

I can't add anything to this.
--snip--

--
Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.
-- Demosthenes


Except that it is a piece of sati
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors...ve-percent.htm

But it does say a lot about people who will believe anything they are
pre-disposed to believe.

Rich Grise wrote:

jim wrote:
? Rich Grise wrote:
?
?? Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
?? our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.
?
? You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?

****, NO!!! I don't want the taxpayers stuck with funding ANYTHING, not
even Planned Parenthood!

? Private investors won't put their money down

That's because of the mountains of red tape they'd have to plow through,
which was put in place by politicians, bureaucrats, and NIMBYs.

No its not.



? And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds

By taking over the schools (at YOUR expense) and turning them into
propaganda mills.

Still bent out of shape that we in Wisconsin
have a lot better schools than your sorry state does?


? and how that ties into nuclear energy

The kids don't get a proper education - just "self-esteem" and socialist
propaganda.

Maybe in your state


? Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

Next generation, yes. But that won't happen if they're programmed to
be just another generation of GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! liberals.


You prefer they spend 12 yrs learning to do nothing
but whining about government as you do?

Sunworshipper wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City, PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW


If you really want to see some of the bad results of strip mining go to
Google maps and see it from the air.

http://www.satelliteviews.net/cgi-bi...e=PA&ftype=ppl

All the strip mining in this area done today has restrictions on how the
land if left after the mining is done.

John

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City, PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the
coal under the town. I think there was a concerted effort to get the
last residents out of their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap
anywhere in this area especially in Centralia.


John

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City, PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?

--
Ed Huntress

Rich Grise wrote:
jim wrote:

The only way Nuclear power plants will be built in the US is if the
government is the party responsible to clean up the type of mess that is
now happening in Japan.

It's exceedingly unlikely that, for example, Monticello, Minnesota will
ever be subjected to an 8.9 earthquake and a 30-foot tsunami.

Hope This Helps!
Rich



How about the case of a meteor crashing down and wiping out the whole
nuke plant, destroying all the backup systems and everything else in the
plant. You gotta have something to worry about.

John

Rich Grise wrote:

John R. Carroll wrote:
jim" "sjedgingN0Sp wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:

Well, we won't get this until we break the liberal/union deathgrip on
our children's minds and the taxpayers' wallets.

You want the taxpayers to finance nuclear energy?
Private investors won't put their money down

And I'm curious how unions grip children's minds
and how that ties into nuclear energy
Are you expecting children to build nuclear power plants?

The thought of Richard expecting children is frightening enough and it
doesn't matter what they build.
LOL

Yup. standard Liberal/progressive - don't like the facts, go ad hominem.


Its a tricky business making fun of the humor impaired.

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City, PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think, 5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton
and Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed
and houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and
other old run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well
maintained houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The
fairgrounds got flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual
occurrence.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City,
PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government
pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and
that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think,
5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a
house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people
are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central
Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton and
Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed and
houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and other old
run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well maintained
houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The fairgrounds got
flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual occurrence.

John

Jeez, it's been getting flooded for decades. Maybe that's why it's so green
in time for the Bloomsburg Fair. d8-)

Yeah, I know where Sybertsville is. I attended middle school at
Mifflinville.

The college has expanded so much, and the town with it, that I hardly
recognize it anymore. But it's always been a very nice town. Curiously, it's
the only incorporated town in Pennsylvania.

When I lived there, I could, and often did, get up before school, grab my
shotgun, walk less than 200 yards, and hunt rabbits, quail, ducks, and
geese. I doubt if you can do that where I lived anymore.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City,
PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government
pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and
that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I think,
5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a
house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people
are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central
Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton and
Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed and
houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and other old
run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well maintained
houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The fairgrounds got
flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual occurrence.

John

Jeez, it's been getting flooded for decades. Maybe that's why it's so green
in time for the Bloomsburg Fair. d8-)

Yeah, I know where Sybertsville is. I attended middle school at
Mifflinville.

The college has expanded so much, and the town with it, that I hardly
recognize it anymore. But it's always been a very nice town. Curiously, it's
the only incorporated town in Pennsylvania.

When I lived there, I could, and often did, get up before school, grab my
shotgun, walk less than 200 yards, and hunt rabbits, quail, ducks, and
geese. I doubt if you can do that where I lived anymore.


I grew up in Secaucus, and went duck hunting in the swamps. I would
ride through the center of town on my bicycle with the shotgun across
the handlebars and no one ever even took notice. if the ducks didn't
fly in from other parts they tasted like the Hackensack river swamp
water.

John

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Too much silicon, no doubt. Silicosis is nasty.

--
Ed Huntress

Their problem, in simple language, is to find a new place to live.

i

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City,
PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government
pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these
projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and
that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she
flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I
think,
5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a
house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people
are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there
so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this
area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central
Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton
and
Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed and
houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and other
old
run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well
maintained
houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The fairgrounds got
flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual occurrence.

John

Jeez, it's been getting flooded for decades. Maybe that's why it's so
green
in time for the Bloomsburg Fair. d8-)

Yeah, I know where Sybertsville is. I attended middle school at
Mifflinville.

The college has expanded so much, and the town with it, that I hardly
recognize it anymore. But it's always been a very nice town. Curiously,
it's
the only incorporated town in Pennsylvania.

When I lived there, I could, and often did, get up before school, grab my
shotgun, walk less than 200 yards, and hunt rabbits, quail, ducks, and
geese. I doubt if you can do that where I lived anymore.


I grew up in Secaucus, and went duck hunting in the swamps. I would ride
through the center of town on my bicycle with the shotgun across the
handlebars and no one ever even took notice. if the ducks didn't fly in
from other parts they tasted like the Hackensack river swamp water.

John

Oh, boy, we're getting old, John. Here's one mo You know the strip of
peat bog and land between Rt. 11 and 11A, from Berwick down to Bloomsburg,
that's maybe a half-mile wide -- if it's still there. During deer season
(do they still give the kids a school holiday on opening day of deer season
up there?), after school, we'd go down to the athletic director's office,
pick up our rifles from our athletic lockers, and go to his desk to pick up
our ammo. Then we'd hike home with our rifles, hunting deer all the way. One
of my buddies actually killed one that way once.

The horror, the horror....

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Too much silicon, no doubt. Silicosis is nasty.

Occasionally we get a dose of AsH3 which really
smells awful, especially during a long winter
inversion. It's probably perfectly safe though.



--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Too much silicon, no doubt. Silicosis is nasty.

Occasionally we get a dose of AsH3 which really
smells awful, especially during a long winter
inversion. It's probably perfectly safe though.



--Winston

Jeez, we don't have anything like that anymore. New Jersey ain't what it
used to be...thank God.

It used to be that you could drive up the NJ Turnpike past the refineries
and chemical plants in Elizabeth and hope you didn't gag. Now, we no longer
trust the air. You can't even see it.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Now, we no longer trust the air. You can't even see it.

I don't miss the 'extra chewy' air one bit.

--Winston

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy City,
PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the government
pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these
projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and
that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she
flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I
think,
5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a
house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think people
are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there
so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this
area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central
Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton
and
Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed and
houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and other
old
run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well
maintained
houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The fairgrounds got
flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual occurrence.

John

Jeez, it's been getting flooded for decades. Maybe that's why it's so
green
in time for the Bloomsburg Fair. d8-)

Yeah, I know where Sybertsville is. I attended middle school at
Mifflinville.

The college has expanded so much, and the town with it, that I hardly
recognize it anymore. But it's always been a very nice town. Curiously,
it's
the only incorporated town in Pennsylvania.

When I lived there, I could, and often did, get up before school, grab my
shotgun, walk less than 200 yards, and hunt rabbits, quail, ducks, and
geese. I doubt if you can do that where I lived anymore.


I grew up in Secaucus, and went duck hunting in the swamps. I would ride
through the center of town on my bicycle with the shotgun across the
handlebars and no one ever even took notice. if the ducks didn't fly in
from other parts they tasted like the Hackensack river swamp water.

John

Oh, boy, we're getting old, John. Here's one mo You know the strip of
peat bog and land between Rt. 11 and 11A, from Berwick down to Bloomsburg,
that's maybe a half-mile wide -- if it's still there. During deer season
(do they still give the kids a school holiday on opening day of deer season
up there?), after school, we'd go down to the athletic director's office,
pick up our rifles from our athletic lockers, and go to his desk to pick up
our ammo. Then we'd hike home with our rifles, hunting deer all the way. One
of my buddies actually killed one that way once.

The horror, the horror....


I'm not sure about the kids having the first day of hunting season off
from school but I know some companys just about close down on that day.
With all the housing going up around here the deer are smart enough to
hang around them and not get shot but then some of the homeowners get
upset at the deer eating their plants so some of them get shot anyway.
I see deer behind my shop every so often. There are a bunch of corn
fields in the back and deer love corn. This area seems like it's about
25 years behind the times as compared to NJ. except in the area of
political corruption. I never did hunt deer but they sure are good to
eat, much better than beef.


John

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Now, we no longer trust the air. You can't even see it.

I don't miss the 'extra chewy' air one bit.

--Winston

It's an acquired taste. For example, some of us can't handle habaneros or
Elizabeth, NJ air ca. 1955. Others think that we're wimps because we can't
draw a deep breath of it without hacking up a loogie.

I think I saved a few mason jars of it around here somewhere...if it hasn't
eaten the gaskets or the lids...

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Too much silicon, no doubt. Silicosis is nasty.

Occasionally we get a dose of AsH3 which really
smells awful, especially during a long winter
inversion. It's probably perfectly safe though.



--Winston

Jeez, we don't have anything like that anymore. New Jersey ain't what it
used to be...thank God.

It used to be that you could drive up the NJ Turnpike past the refineries
and chemical plants in Elizabeth and hope you didn't gag. Now, we no longer
trust the air. You can't even see it.



When you drove down to the shore on a hot Friday night there would be an
orangy mist hanging over everything and you felt like you had to cut
your way through the mist and pollution. It was impossible to hold your
breath from exit 15 at Newark until you reached Rahway. When i go there
today I almost miss the stuff, but not quite.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Sunworshipper"SW@GWNTUNDRA wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:15:50 -0400,
wrote:

This project is sitting about 20 miles south of me in Manahoy
City,
PA.
The project has been stopped in its tracks when the
government
pulled
the committed funds from the project. This area is sitting on
the
largest antricite hard coal deposit in the world. If these
projects
would get set up the oil industry would have some competition and
that
sure would be a problem for them.


I know that area. Was extensively mined and towns with eery lack
of
people. It was like yesterday that I remember being chauffeured
past
miles of strip mining and my major tree hugging girl friend was
bitching about how they just raped the land and left. She recently
****ed me off so I jokingly took the devils advocate side and she
flew
off into a fit until she was so hot that I just let it go. Her
other
button was just as hot ! They could have at least contoured the
land
so it wouldn't look like a mine. We went to a ghost town that use
to
be a mining town where the mine owned the land and stores.


SW

Did you see the town of Centralia? I used to play Little League
ball
against
their team, when I lived in Bloomsburg. Nice town. Now is has, I
think,
5
residents. The seam under it has been burning since 1962. Heating a
house
there must be cheap.



There is some people that say the government wanted to displace the
whole
population of Centralia and buy up the area so it can get at the
coal
under the town.

Yeah, there was talk about that as far back as the '60s. I think
people
are
just paranoid. The government probably wants to get them out of there
so
they can just fence it all off and not have to patrol the area or
worry
about people needing to be rescued.

I think there was a concerted effort to get the last residents out
of
their homes. Heating a house with coal is cheap anywhere in this
area
especially in Centralia.


John

I used to live between Bloomsburg and Espy, and I attended Central
Columbia
County Joint High School. Are you near there?



I am a little north of Hazleton PA. in Sybertsville. between Hazleton
and
Berwick. This is a real old farming area but is now being developed
and
houses going up everywhere for people moving out of Hazleton and other
old
run down towns. Bloomsburg is a nice town very clean and well
maintained
houses. The college is part of the reason it is. The fairgrounds got
flooded again this last week, it seems like an annual occurrence.

John

Jeez, it's been getting flooded for decades. Maybe that's why it's so
green
in time for the Bloomsburg Fair. d8-)

Yeah, I know where Sybertsville is. I attended middle school at
Mifflinville.

The college has expanded so much, and the town with it, that I hardly
recognize it anymore. But it's always been a very nice town. Curiously,
it's
the only incorporated town in Pennsylvania.

When I lived there, I could, and often did, get up before school, grab
my
shotgun, walk less than 200 yards, and hunt rabbits, quail, ducks, and
geese. I doubt if you can do that where I lived anymore.


I grew up in Secaucus, and went duck hunting in the swamps. I would
ride
through the center of town on my bicycle with the shotgun across the
handlebars and no one ever even took notice. if the ducks didn't fly in
from other parts they tasted like the Hackensack river swamp water.

John

Oh, boy, we're getting old, John. Here's one mo You know the strip of
peat bog and land between Rt. 11 and 11A, from Berwick down to
Bloomsburg,
that's maybe a half-mile wide -- if it's still there. During deer season
(do they still give the kids a school holiday on opening day of deer
season
up there?), after school, we'd go down to the athletic director's office,
pick up our rifles from our athletic lockers, and go to his desk to pick
up
our ammo. Then we'd hike home with our rifles, hunting deer all the way.
One
of my buddies actually killed one that way once.

The horror, the horror....


I'm not sure about the kids having the first day of hunting season off
from school but I know some companys just about close down on that day.
With all the housing going up around here the deer are smart enough to
hang around them and not get shot but then some of the homeowners get
upset at the deer eating their plants so some of them get shot anyway. I
see deer behind my shop every so often. There are a bunch of corn fields
in the back and deer love corn. This area seems like it's about 25 years
behind the times as compared to NJ. except in the area of political
corruption. I never did hunt deer but they sure are good to eat, much
better than beef.


John

That's really nice country up where you are, John. I still enjoy driving
through there. Until a few years ago, when my wife sustained a bad injury,
we camped at Hickory Run State Park at least once every year. I have a lot
of good memories of the area.

And there was a great Italian restaurant in Hazleton. The name escapes me,
but it was famous for miles around.

--
Ed Huntress

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(Ed's childhood, a few short months ago.)

anthracite anecdotes off

Things sure change.
The Silicon Valley in '62 had vast expanses of orchard.
Very pretty.

By the '70s the air was all but unbreathable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

It's gotten a lot better since, but a truly rural person
still would not call the atmosphere delightful.

--Winston

Too much silicon, no doubt. Silicosis is nasty.

Occasionally we get a dose of AsH3 which really
smells awful, especially during a long winter
inversion. It's probably perfectly safe though.



--Winston

Jeez, we don't have anything like that anymore. New Jersey ain't what it
used to be...thank God.

It used to be that you could drive up the NJ Turnpike past the refineries
and chemical plants in Elizabeth and hope you didn't gag. Now, we no
longer
trust the air. You can't even see it.



When you drove down to the shore on a hot Friday night there would be an
orangy mist hanging over everything and you felt like you had to cut your
way through the mist and pollution. It was impossible to hold your breath
from exit 15 at Newark until you reached Rahway. When i go there today I
almost miss the stuff, but not quite.

John

The only thing good about it was that it kept the people with weak
constitutions from moving in. Those people in Kearny, Harrison, etc. are
*tough*.

When I moved to Michigan I had to drive through Gary, Indiana every once in
a while to keep from getting homesick...

--
Ed Huntress

John wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
jim wrote:

The only way Nuclear power plants will be built in the US is if the
government is the party responsible to clean up the type of mess that is
now happening in Japan.

It's exceedingly unlikely that, for example, Monticello, Minnesota will
ever be subjected to an 8.9 earthquake and a 30-foot tsunami.

How about the case of a meteor crashing down and wiping out the whole
nuke plant, destroying all the backup systems and everything else in the
plant. You gotta have something to worry about.

Meteor? Boy, now you're REALLY grasping at straws!

Thanks,
Rich

jim wrote:

You prefer they spend 12 yrs learning to do nothing
but whining about government as you do?

I'd prefer they spend 12 years learning to actually think, rather
than to just bow down and suck the ass of their glorious infallible
commissar.

Thanks,
Rich

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:
Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:34:38 -0400, "Steve W."


http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/1...e-explanation/

Now I'll wait for the doom and gloom crowd to start wailing....

Read that first thing this morning. How thick is the graphite,
metal, and concrete. 4,000 degree F.+ melt for how long? Has it
been done before? Still, that sounds like Air Force and airline
pilots wouldn't make it till retirement. That is if a couple of
beers is like tail gating out at the plant.

You didn't read the article either, did you? Or at least, if you
did, you obviously didn't grasp the facts.

Yeah, nuclear power has risks - so do solar panels and wind turbines
and cars. Cars kill 50,000 people every year - should we ban them
too?

There is a big difference Rich.
Automobiles are low risk / small consequence propositions. No car
accident will ever pose a threat to an economy.
Nuclear generating facilities are tiny risk / HUGE consequence
operations. Even a single catastrophe can have large and long
lasting impact.

Commercial nuclear power has never had a single mass casualty event in
it's decades of operation. It has not even had a small scale civilian
casualty event. Opposition to nuclear power is based on ignorance and
paranoia, not any science or rational thought.

I think part of the resistance, what you attribute to paranoia, isn't
ignorant at all.
It looks like this....

http://quote.tse.or.jp/tse/quote.cgi...N=T&QCODE=9501

Do you honestly think that drop represents hard analysis of the facts
(which are still not fully known) or knee-jerk reactions?

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:
Sunworshipper wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:34:38 -0400, "Steve W."


http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/1...e-explanation/

Now I'll wait for the doom and gloom crowd to start wailing....

Read that first thing this morning. How thick is the graphite,
metal, and concrete. 4,000 degree F.+ melt for how long? Has it
been done before? Still, that sounds like Air Force and airline
pilots wouldn't make it till retirement. That is if a couple of
beers is like tail gating out at the plant.

You didn't read the article either, did you? Or at least, if you
did, you obviously didn't grasp the facts.

Yeah, nuclear power has risks - so do solar panels and wind
turbines and cars. Cars kill 50,000 people every year - should we
ban them too?

There is a big difference Rich.
Automobiles are low risk / small consequence propositions. No car
accident will ever pose a threat to an economy.
Nuclear generating facilities are tiny risk / HUGE consequence
operations. Even a single catastrophe can have large and long
lasting impact.

Commercial nuclear power has never had a single mass casualty event
in it's decades of operation. It has not even had a small scale
civilian casualty event. Opposition to nuclear power is based on
ignorance and paranoia, not any science or rational thought.

I think part of the resistance, what you attribute to paranoia, isn't
ignorant at all.
It looks like this....

http://quote.tse.or.jp/tse/quote.cgi...N=T&QCODE=9501

Do you honestly think that drop represents hard analysis of the facts
(which are still not fully known) or knee-jerk reactions?

The facts are that this company has the kind of expensive mess on their
hands that shareholders abhore.
The PR also isn't real good.
Yes, it's a factual analysis but not of the failure.
It's a good analysis of what's likely to happen to the company and anyone
that got out by days end yesterday will have significantly more of their
equity remaining than those that didn't.
The shares are now down by two thirds and that's a fact and something an
investor with even half a brain would forsee.

Yet this company still operates far more than just this complex of six
reactors along with scores of fossil fueled generation plants across the
country, all of which are producing a product in exceptionally high
demand. Yes, they have a big mess, but they also still have highly
profitable operations.

Rich Grise wrote:
John wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
jim wrote:

The only way Nuclear power plants will be built in the US is if the
government is the party responsible to clean up the type of mess that is
now happening in Japan.

It's exceedingly unlikely that, for example, Monticello, Minnesota will
ever be subjected to an 8.9 earthquake and a 30-foot tsunami.

How about the case of a meteor crashing down and wiping out the whole
nuke plant, destroying all the backup systems and everything else in the
plant. You gotta have something to worry about.

Meteor? Boy, now you're REALLY grasping at straws!

Thanks,
Rich



Actually I was thinking of maybe Rodan would make short work of a nuke
plant and then spread all the pieces over the country side. Of course
you had to know i was fooling about the meteor.


John

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:15:04 -0700 (PDT), oldjag
wrote:
snip
Given the huge potential impact LFTR and liquid fuels generation could
have on our economy I can not understand why I have not heard one iota
about either from any mainstream "news" source or "alternative" energy
show. I doubt 1 in 100 people in the US have ever even heard about
LFTR. India and China are already putting money into research for
LFTR's.
snip
============
Again the Chinese are not only planning but acting.

While not mainstream US media (The DT is a UK paper), the
implementation of LFTR appears to be a PRC priority.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...h-thorium.html
{watch the wrap, and scan the reader comments}

One item of interest is that thorium is a byproduct of REE
[rare earth element] mining/extraction, with frequently more
thorium recovered than REEs. Thorium can also be
economically extracted from coal fired power station fly
ash, with more potential energy than the original coal, and
China currently burns more coal than any other nation.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Mar 15, 11:41*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message

...

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Now, we no longer trust the air. You can't even see it.

I don't miss the 'extra chewy' air one bit.

--Winston

It's an acquired taste. For example, some of us can't handle habaneros or
Elizabeth, NJ air ca. 1955. Others think that we're wimps because we can't
draw a deep breath of it without hacking up a loogie.

I think I saved a few mason jars of it around here somewhere...if it hasn't
eaten the gaskets or the lids...

--
Ed Huntress

I waiting for China to realize that there is a market for their air
polution.

They could bottle it and sell it as "Retro New Jersey...A Breeze From
The Past".

TMT