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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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face groove
Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning...
I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl |
#2
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face groove
Karl Townsend wrote:
Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The groove is right at the base of the cylindrical part ? Can you put the block on a rotary table , mill the round , change to the appropriate end mill to cut the groove ? -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
#3
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face groove
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 20:12:43 -0600, "Snag"
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The groove is right at the base of the cylindrical part ? Can you put the block on a rotary table , mill the round , change to the appropriate end mill to cut the groove ? That's a thought. I'd like to try in the lathe first though, cause it will hold tight tolerance. Right now, I'm a dreamin' up some way to hold a 1/16 endmill. Put one in backward ground into a "D". It would stick out 5 diameters if I hold it in a collet. May just snap right off. Karl |
#4
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face groove
On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. |
#5
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face groove
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 00:44:12 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. That's beyond my ability to freehand grind. But, you gave me an idea. I could CNC machine the perfect cutter out of the soft end of a drill 1/2" bit. Then harden. OK, I don't remember best procedure to harden drill rod into a cutter. Anybody? Karl |
#6
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face groove
On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl If I understand correctly you are cutting an o-ring groove on the face of the block adjacent to the 2.5" round portion you just turned? What is difficult". Just grind a tool bit to do it. I'd probably start out by grinding the end of a new HSS tool bit at about 45 degrees to get clearance for the cylindrical portion. then grind a protruding cutting point the size and shape of your o-ring groove. You now have a tool bit positioned at 45 degrees to the centerline of the lathe with a cutting portion parallel to the centerline and ground to cut the correct size and shape groove. Then do it :-) |
#7
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face groove
Karl Townsend wrote:
... I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. ... I dunno ... maybe. Having it in your hand makes you the better judge. But, it's worth a shot. Being smaller also means less force on it. Try it. Bob |
#8
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face groove
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message ... Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl You want a trepanning bit. Plenty of "how to grind" on Google. I've made a bunch over the years, no biggy. |
#9
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face groove
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 00:44:12 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. That's beyond my ability to freehand grind. But, you gave me an idea. I could CNC machine the perfect cutter out of the soft end of a drill 1/2" bit. Then harden. OK, I don't remember best procedure to harden drill rod into a cutter. Anybody? Karl This cutter shape is not hard to grind. http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/tooling+.jpg John |
#10
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face groove
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 05:23:34 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote: On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 00:44:12 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. That's beyond my ability to freehand grind. But, you gave me an idea. I could CNC machine the perfect cutter out of the soft end of a drill 1/2" bit. Then harden. OK, I don't remember best procedure to harden drill rod into a cutter. Anybody? Karl "Drill Rod", i.e., 1095 steel - heat to cherry red, hole at that temperature for a few minutes; quench in salt water; polish and reheat to light straw color and re-quench. If it cracks try light oil or maybe kerosene. At least that's how my apprentice-master told us to do it :-) |
#11
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face groove
Karl Townsend wrote:
I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. Take a 1/4" HSS blank, why? Less to grind. Grind a vee relief to clear the radius of the groove. You will be fine. I wish I could show you a picture of our stacked groovers we use to cut tightly spaced grooves in rotors. Cutting 8 grooves at a time in aluminum will take a 15 hp spindle to the edge and poly microvee belts suck compared to rubber. One will slip and melt, the other will grip and stop the spindle motor. Wes |
#12
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face groove
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:07:16 -0500, john
wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 00:44:12 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. That's beyond my ability to freehand grind. But, you gave me an idea. I could CNC machine the perfect cutter out of the soft end of a drill 1/2" bit. Then harden. OK, I don't remember best procedure to harden drill rod into a cutter. Anybody? Karl This cutter shape is not hard to grind. http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/tooling+.jpg John THANKS The picture was worth a 1000 words. I just ground a real nice cutter. Karl |
#13
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face groove
Karl Townsend wrote:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:07:16 -0500, wrote: Karl Townsend wrote: On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 00:44:12 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:45:40 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote: Got a tuff little job for tomorrow morning... I'm making a new end of an air cylinder. Start with a 3.5 by 3.5 block 1.5" thick. Center and turn in the lathe so you now have a 2.5" round protruding 0.25". Now for the tuff part, turn a groove 0.062" wide on the face right at the 2.5" round. (This holds rubber ring seal). I've turned a groove on a face in the lathe before, but never with the protrusion in the way. I started grinding a little tit on the end of a cutoff HSS tool. I can see this effort will break right off. I'm thinking to try mangling a two flute endmill in the morning. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Karl The trick here is to grind a tool that looks like a curved parting tool, with radius of 1.25" on the wide part. The curvature is so the supporting material under the cutting edge stays within the groove that the cutting edge makes. The projection would be about .060" thick (groove width minus a skosh), projecting length need only be slightly more than the required groove depth. I'd grind it out of a square HSS tool bit. That's beyond my ability to freehand grind. But, you gave me an idea. I could CNC machine the perfect cutter out of the soft end of a drill 1/2" bit. Then harden. OK, I don't remember best procedure to harden drill rod into a cutter. Anybody? Karl This cutter shape is not hard to grind. http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/tooling+.jpg John THANKS The picture was worth a 1000 words. I just ground a real nice cutter. Karl Just make sure you have enough re leaf for the arc of the groove. If the side of the .062 tip rubs the groove will be oversized. Check the cutter for rubbing on the side and if it is grind a little more side clearance, John |
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