I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800, Winston
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

http://www.mcmaster.com/#phase-testers/=arbl6y
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subset
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=03499981000P
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-Electri...6055312&sr=8-5
http://www.amazon.com/UEI-PSMR1-Phas...6055312&sr=8-6

Etc. Be sufficiently careful about the quality of anything handheld
that gets connected to industrial-strength mains power.

In article ,
Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

I don't know that they have ever been all that cheap - the volume market
isn't really there to bring the price down. 3-phase implies industrial
implies prices tend to be rather stiff. I used to put them in as part of
our vacuum pump controls (wired in, not a plug in unit), but they were
special-ordered and several hundred bucks when several hundred bucks
went a bit further than these days.

I see one for $23 that you'd have to wire the plug to (phase indicator,
google shopping, not hard to find) - can't be left plugged in (1 hour
limit at 200V, 4 minutes at 480 - I guess they use cheap resistors to
make a cheap meter)

Step up to ~$80 and you can get a perhaps somewhat better built extech
480400 meter (you'll still need to wire in your plug.) It does not
mention any time limit for being connected, so you might not have to buy
a replacement meter after one gets left and fries...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800,
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

http://www.mcmaster.com/#phase-testers/=arbl6y
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subset
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=03499981000P
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-Electri...6055312&sr=8-5
http://www.amazon.com/UEI-PSMR1-Phas...6055312&sr=8-6

Etc. Be sufficiently careful about the quality of anything handheld
that gets connected to industrial-strength mains power.

Lots to check out here.
Thank you, Google-Fu Master.

--Winston

Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

I don't know that they have ever been all that cheap - the volume market
isn't really there to bring the price down. 3-phase implies industrial
implies prices tend to be rather stiff. I used to put them in as part of
our vacuum pump controls (wired in, not a plug in unit), but they were
special-ordered and several hundred bucks when several hundred bucks
went a bit further than these days.

I see one for $23 that you'd have to wire the plug to (phase indicator,
google shopping, not hard to find) - can't be left plugged in (1 hour
limit at 200V, 4 minutes at 480 - I guess they use cheap resistors to
make a cheap meter)

Step up to ~$80 and you can get a perhaps somewhat better built extech
480400 meter (you'll still need to wire in your plug.) It does not
mention any time limit for being connected, so you might not have to buy
a replacement meter after one gets left and fries...

Yup. I saw the 10 W resistors in some designs, so
the temptation to 'cheap out' would be great.

Thanks!

--Winston

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

I've not seen anything threaded on like that without some additional
locking provision, like a slipped in key and locknut. Certainly it is a
requirement to look over the device in question to determine what effect
a couple seconds of reverse rotation will actually have.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:47:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

I've not seen anything threaded on like that without some additional
locking provision, like a slipped in key and locknut. Certainly it is a
requirement to look over the device in question to determine what effect
a couple seconds of reverse rotation will actually have.

Threaded was standard for a lot of centrifugal pump impellers, no key
or nut. We were warned about that when being trained in r&d in the
chemical industry. If you checked rotation with the coupling
connected you had an even chance of having the impeller rattling
around loose in the pump housing. Of course, now they wouldn't let a
kid fresh out of college anywhere near that type of equipment. Back
then (35 yrs ago), we were expected to keep pilot plants running
around the clock, even if it meant swapping 3 phase 460v motors,
checking fuses, replacing packing, etc. It was more fun back then.

Pete Keillor

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:47:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

I've not seen anything threaded on like that without some additional
locking provision, like a slipped in key and locknut. Certainly it is a
requirement to look over the device in question to determine what effect
a couple seconds of reverse rotation will actually have.

Threaded was standard for a lot of centrifugal pump impellers, no key
or nut. We were warned about that when being trained in r&d in the
chemical industry. If you checked rotation with the coupling
connected you had an even chance of having the impeller rattling
around loose in the pump housing. Of course, now they wouldn't let a
kid fresh out of college anywhere near that type of equipment. Back
then (35 yrs ago), we were expected to keep pilot plants running
around the clock, even if it meant swapping 3 phase 460v motors,
checking fuses, replacing packing, etc. It was more fun back then.

Pete Keillor

Most everything was more fun "back then"... I fondly remember the days
when I could get an Ethernet port and IP address for a new machine in a
couple hours, not a couple weeks. Heck, back then I could even get a new
power drop under the raised floor in a few days, not a month. *sigh*

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

That is exactly what did.

I laughed a lot when I saw that the rotor was running backwards.
It instantly explained much of our problem with water flow.

A true 'head smack' moment.

Thanks again, Pete.

--Winston

Pete Keillor wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete
wrote:

(...)

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

I got away with it. (I realize that does not necessarily
mean that the decision was wise or safe).

In my defense, inspection of the impeller showed that the
pump in question was little more than scrap anyway.
It was missing most of a vane and the rest of it was *very
badly* corroded and pitted.

The impeller didn't unthread and the 'magic smoke' stayed
in the motor. Call me lucky.

--Winston

Pete C. wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

I've not seen anything threaded on like that without some additional
locking provision, like a slipped in key and locknut. Certainly it is a
requirement to look over the device in question to determine what effect
a couple seconds of reverse rotation will actually have.

There wasn't a warning in the manufacturer's data sheet
about running the pump backwards except to say that it
was not expected to perform it's function if run backwards.


--Winston

"Pete C." wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:47:09 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Pete Keillor wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:06:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

Don't try that if there's an impeller threaded on a shaft. If
possible, I had motors decoupled from loads before doing that. Wasn't
always possible.

Pete Keillor

I've not seen anything threaded on like that without some additional
locking provision, like a slipped in key and locknut. Certainly it is a
requirement to look over the device in question to determine what effect
a couple seconds of reverse rotation will actually have.

Threaded was standard for a lot of centrifugal pump impellers, no key
or nut. We were warned about that when being trained in r&d in the
chemical industry. If you checked rotation with the coupling
connected you had an even chance of having the impeller rattling
around loose in the pump housing. Of course, now they wouldn't let a
kid fresh out of college anywhere near that type of equipment. Back
then (35 yrs ago), we were expected to keep pilot plants running
around the clock, even if it meant swapping 3 phase 460v motors,
checking fuses, replacing packing, etc. It was more fun back then.

Pete Keillor

Most everything was more fun "back then"... I fondly remember the days
when I could get an Ethernet port and IP address for a new machine in a
couple hours, not a couple weeks. Heck, back then I could even get a new
power drop under the raised floor in a few days, not a month. *sigh*


Or being told that there isn't enough power availible to add
something rated 208/240 when the three phase breaker box has everything
on a single phase to reduce noise.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:27:46 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

You won't find one at the Borg, since they don't carry anything three
phase. You will find them at most any real electrical supply house for
~$100 or so. The good thing is that those phase rotation meters usually
also include motor test functionality so you can identify the leads from
an unpowered three phase motor as long as you can manually turn it more
than half a turn.

It helps to know the proper nomenclature.
Good info. Thanks!

--Winston

One additional note is that there aren't too many three phase loads
you'll run across that will be harmed by running reverse rotation for a
couple seconds, so most of the time you can just blip the load on and
see if it's running the correct direction, and if it isn't swap two
phases before trying again.

That is exactly what did.

I laughed a lot when I saw that the rotor was running backwards.
It instantly explained much of our problem with water flow.

A true 'head smack' moment.

Otherwise known as the engineer's salute.

Pete Keillor

Thanks again, Pete.

--Winston

"dan" wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

For machine tools usually I just momentarily turn on the coolant pump before
going any further.

Pete Keillor wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:27:46 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

A true 'head smack' moment.

Otherwise known as the engineer's salute.

I represent that comment.

--Winston

PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

For machine tools usually I just momentarily turn on the coolant pump before
going any further.

I will have to rearrange my troubleshooting schedule
so that 'rotation direction' is at the top of the list.

--Winston

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800, Winston
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston


Hey Winston,

I don't know what "the Borg" is, but any industrial/wholesale
electrical supplier should have "Reverse Phase" relays available. Just
do a Google to see them. Most have a secondary function to drop out
if the applied voltage goes too low, and the really expensive ones
check for over-voltage too.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800,
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston


Hey Winston,

I don't know what "the Borg" is, but any industrial/wholesale
electrical supplier should have "Reverse Phase" relays available. Just
do a Google to see them. Most have a secondary function to drop out
if the applied voltage goes too low, and the really expensive ones
check for over-voltage too.

Hi Brian,

'The Borg' is an affectionate diminutive for the various mega stores
who have assimilated all of our small 'mom and pop' hardware stores.
over the last 15 years or so.

Thanks for the 'reverse phase' relay suggestion.
As Spehro mentioned, there are many tools
available that provide more information at reasonable
price points.

Spehro pointed out this- and other similar tools.
It is priced about the same as the relay but will display
phase information from a motor disconnected from power.
A very nifty trick!

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/AMP...RW3?Pid=search

Thanks!


--Winston

Winston wrote:

PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

I've seen three phase motors down to about 1/10 HP (small fan), but
those are really difficult to locate through any normal US sources.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:48:12 -0800, Winston
wrote:

PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!


Oriental motor makes 3 phase gearmotors as small as 6W. Not cheap new
(around $75 for a motor, ~$150 for a gearmotor) but there are usually
quite a few on ebay.

"SW" in the part number signifies 200/220/230V 3 phase.

http://catalog.orientalmotor.com/adv...uction-motors?

--
Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:48:12 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!


Oriental motor makes 3 phase gearmotors as small as 6W. Not cheap new
(around $75 for a motor, ~$150 for a gearmotor) but there are usually
quite a few on ebay.

"SW" in the part number signifies 200/220/230V 3 phase.

http://catalog.orientalmotor.com/adv...uction-motors?

In that 'price ballpark', I would just buy one of the purpose-built
testers cited by Spehro, for example.

Of course, if I happened to have one of those neat motors in my
'stock of spares', I would definitely put it to use.

Thanks!

--Winston

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

(...)

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

I've seen three phase motors down to about 1/10 HP (small fan), but
those are really difficult to locate through any normal US sources.

I could strip out the PWM drivers from a brushless
fan motor and drive the windings via step down transformers,
conceivably. The test instruments revealed earlier still sound
like the best bet, (time and money wise) though.

--Winston

Winston wrote:
PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

For machine tools usually I just momentarily turn on the coolant pump
before
going any further.

I will have to rearrange my troubleshooting schedule
so that 'rotation direction' is at the top of the list.

--Winston

I've seen small fans that run on three phase, muffin fans.

John

John wrote:
Winston wrote:
PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
Winston wrote in

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?

That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

For machine tools usually I just momentarily turn on the coolant pump
before
going any further.

I will have to rearrange my troubleshooting schedule
so that 'rotation direction' is at the top of the list.

I've seen small fans that run on three phase, muffin fans.

Of course! BLDC (BrushLess DC) motors have a little three-
phase oscillator, but to use one of those for phase testing
you'd have to hack into it and bypass the internal 3-phase
oscillator.

Good Luck!
Rich

John wrote:

Winston wrote:
PrecisiomachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...
Winston wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800:

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

Could you just find a small 3ph motor and use that?


That would be way too easy...

I thought of that. Smallest gear motor I could find
cheaply was 1/2 HP!

For machine tools usually I just momentarily turn on the coolant pump
before
going any further.

I will have to rearrange my troubleshooting schedule
so that 'rotation direction' is at the top of the list.

--Winston

I've seen small fans that run on three phase, muffin fans.


The GRC-106 had small three phase 400 Hz fans.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:25:43 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800, Winston
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

http://www.mcmaster.com/#phase-testers/=arbl6y
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subset
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=03499981000P
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-Electri...6055312&sr=8-5
http://www.amazon.com/UEI-PSMR1-Phas...6055312&sr=8-6

Etc. Be sufficiently careful about the quality of anything handheld
that gets connected to industrial-strength mains power.

How about a small, inexpensive 3-phase motor?

Don Foreman wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:25:43 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:56:08 -0800,
wrote:

I Googled but didn't find anything that would
work quickly.

Who makes an inexpensive tester that I can plug
into 208 V 3 phase L14-30 outlets to determine
phase rotation?

I'm aware of this circuit but I want something
I can buy at the Borg and leave at a worksite:
http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tut...on_2_10_03.htm

--Winston

http://www.mcmaster.com/#phase-testers/=arbl6y
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subset
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=03499981000P
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-Electri...6055312&sr=8-5
http://www.amazon.com/UEI-PSMR1-Phas...6055312&sr=8-6

Etc. Be sufficiently careful about the quality of anything handheld
that gets connected to industrial-strength mains power.

How about a small, inexpensive 3-phase motor?


For me, the instruments Speff indicated are much less time and
about the same money as a small motor, so I'm going with the
instrument rather than the motor. Three of us had the same idea
so it'd be a worthy notion if it weren't for the good quality tools
Speff mentioned.

--Winston

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:56:43 -0800, Winston
wrote:



Etc. Be sufficiently careful about the quality of anything handheld
that gets connected to industrial-strength mains power.

How about a small, inexpensive 3-phase motor?


For me, the instruments Speff indicated are much less time and
about the same money as a small motor, so I'm going with the
instrument rather than the motor. Three of us had the same idea
so it'd be a worthy notion if it weren't for the good quality tools
Speff mentioned.

--Winston

But shiny new made-offshore electronic instruments are so sterile,
lacking the character and ambience of a small but suitably grungy
3-phase motor of suitable antiquity. Have you no principles, mon?

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:56:43 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

For me, the instruments Speff indicated are much less time and
about the same money as a small motor, so I'm going with the
instrument rather than the motor. Three of us had the same idea
so it'd be a worthy notion if it weren't for the good quality tools
Speff mentioned.

--Winston

But shiny new made-offshore electronic instruments are so sterile,
lacking the character and ambience of a small but suitably grungy
3-phase motor of suitable antiquity. Have you no principles, mon?

DoH! Busted.



--Winston

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 06:03:11 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:56:43 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

For me, the instruments Speff indicated are much less time and
about the same money as a small motor, so I'm going with the
instrument rather than the motor. Three of us had the same idea
so it'd be a worthy notion if it weren't for the good quality tools
Speff mentioned.

--Winston

But shiny new made-offshore electronic instruments are so sterile,
lacking the character and ambience of a small but suitably grungy
3-phase motor of suitable antiquity. Have you no principles, mon?

DoH! Busted.



--Winston

If memory serves (and it may not), many years ago, the phase testers
actually had a little 3-phase motor with one of those hypnotist spiral
disks behind a clear window.

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 06:03:11 -0800,
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:56:43 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

For me, the instruments Speff indicated are much less time and
about the same money as a small motor, so I'm going with the
instrument rather than the motor. Three of us had the same idea
so it'd be a worthy notion if it weren't for the good quality tools
Speff mentioned.

--Winston

But shiny new made-offshore electronic instruments are so sterile,
lacking the character and ambience of a small but suitably grungy
3-phase motor of suitable antiquity. Have you no principles, mon?

DoH! Busted.



--Winston

If memory serves (and it may not), many years ago, the phase testers
actually had a little 3-phase motor with one of those hypnotist spiral
disks behind a clear window.

If I were shorter on money than time, I'd salvage the
motor of a 3 phase brushless fan by liberating it's
circuitry and driving the windings directly via three
carefully chosen capacitors.

--Winston