Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
news
Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One
problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling
machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart
to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments
of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell,
I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question.
Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like
at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell,
anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

The key seat chisel I have in my tool box has a end quite similar to a key
seat cutter tooth. One of the few times I used it was to cut a slot in a
hydraulic piston nut so I could unscrew it from the rod. Slow tedious work.
Steve

In article ,
Wes wrote:

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question.
Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at
the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell,
anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

For keyways, look up cape chisel.

Here's one site (scroll down past the woodworking chisels)

http://www.using-tools.com/chisels.htm

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Oct 13, 6:52*pm, Wes wrote:
Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. *Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? *Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? *Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting..

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

I don't have an authoritative answer, but I have seen this done with a
chisel ground to look like a tool you'd use in a shaper. The job was
putting a new keyway on the end of a crankshaft to advance the cam
timing by something less than a full gear tooth. I don't remember why
it was decided to do it on the crank rather than broaching a new
keyway in the gear, but there was a reason. This was thirty-odd years
ago (some years more odd than others).

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400, Wes wrote:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One
problem, there was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on
a milling machine but I can't fit the fixture in the mill nor take the
time to rip it completely apart to transport the detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments
of pin punches. I read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I
figured hell, I've done some woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a
shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question.
Back in the day when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the
chisel look like at the pointy end? Like the typical cold chisel or more
like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative on the subject of
machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.


Hey, get real good with hammer and chisel, and you might turn out
to be the next Michaelangelo! "Well, I took this big block of marble,
and just cut away everything that didn't look like David." ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

In article ,
Wes wrote:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One
problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine
but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to
transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of
pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've
done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question.
Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at
the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell,
anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

I once had an ancient [circa 1800's] metal planner with a bed width of 6
inches. The oil channels on the ways were like a sine wave all hand cut
with a chisel. The ability to use a chisel in this manner as well as the
ability to use scrapers is what separates the men from the boys.

CP

On Oct 13, 5:52*pm, Wes wrote:
Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. *Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? *Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? *Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting..

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

Here's something I found on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5IV8...eature=related

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. But I did find a chisel. Worked much better than I would
have thought. By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

Look up cape chisel.

Chisels are capable of surprisingly precise work in the right hands.
An engineer and colleague I knew in the '60's, one Leonid Riobokin,
had been trained in the Ukraine in the 50's. His engineering training
included how to pour babbit bearings for tractors and how to make
holes for tube sockets in sheetmetal with a chisel.

On 2010-10-13, Wes wrote:

[ ... ]

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Check out "cape chisel" at this site:

http://www.using-tools.com/chisels.htm

If your set of pin punches is like mine, there is one cold
chisel and one cape chisel in there -- so you probably got the right
tool the first try.

Now that you know the name -- do a Google search to find more
details. Some of what I found was links to PDF files which were awkward
to get the URL -- but the PDF had good information, including other uses
of the cape chisels that I did not know of.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

I think that I can forgive you. I don't know whether the
political debaters can, however. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

dan wrote:

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. But I did find a chisel. Worked much better than I would
have thought. By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.


About 15 years ago I needed to run sone new 25 pair telephone cables
in a radio station without putting them off the air. The only spot to
run the cable already had one cable, with no room to run another. The
were stunned when they came back and I had use a small cold chisel to
enlarge the hole around the existing cable, trough a concrete block. I
never did tell them how I got that nice square hole to pull the extra
three cables. Wrong tool, wrong application but a perfect install of
three more studio telephones! ;-)


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

Look up cape chisel.

Chisels are capable of surprisingly precise work in the right hands.
An engineer and colleague I knew in the '60's, one Leonid Riobokin,
had been trained in the Ukraine in the 50's. His engineering training
included how to pour babbit bearings for tractors and how to make
holes for tube sockets in sheetmetal with a chisel.

Based on what I've seen of their products, I would have given quite a
lot to attend a Soviet engineering school. I wonder if the ones in
Russia are still of the same quality or whether they've gotten the
Western disease of mostly book-learning and little hands-on.

On 10/14/2010 12:29 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-10-13, wrote:

[ ... ]

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting.

Check out "cape chisel" at this site:

http://www.using-tools.com/chisels.htm

If your set of pin punches is like mine, there is one cold
chisel and one cape chisel in there -- so you probably got the right
tool the first try.

so THAT is what that funny chisel is!
Had one for 20 years, never knew exactly what it was good for.

--
I can see November from my front porch

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 05:29:22 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Now that you know the name -- do a Google search to find more
details. Some of what I found was links to PDF files which were awkward
to get the URL

Right-click on the link, and in the popup context menu, select "copy
link location".

Then paste it wherever you want. :-)

Hope This Helps!
Rich

On Oct 14, 1:21*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
dan wrote:

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking *on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. *I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. *I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. *But I did find a chisel. *Worked much better than I would
have thought. *By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.

* *About 15 years ago I needed to run sone new 25 pair telephone cables
in a radio station without putting them off the air. *The only spot to
run the cable already had one cable, with no room to run another. *The
were stunned when they came back and I had use a small cold chisel to
enlarge the hole around the existing cable, trough a concrete block. *I
never did tell them how I got that nice square hole to pull the extra
three cables. Wrong tool, wrong application but a perfect install of
three more studio telephones! ;-)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Explain that it's a special cordless impact tool designed just for
this sort of situation. A slight surcharge on the bill, but
everything will be good as gold and you'll be up and running in a
jiffy...

On Oct 13, 4:52*pm, Wes wrote:
Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would but now I pose the question. *Back in the day
when they actually cut a key seat this way, what did the chisel look like at the pointy
end? *Like the typical cold chisel or more like a wood chisel? *Hell, anything informative
on the subject of machining with a hammer and chisel would be interesting..

Sorry for the on topic post but I can't resist asking.

Wes

All the old machinists' training books have a chapter on chiseling and
filing. Was a whole lot easier back then, grey cast iron was about
like chiseling wood, if it wasn't chilled, and wrought iron was even
softer. So using a cape chisel to cut a key seat in a wrought iron
shaft wasn't too tough and gouging a mating groove in the pulley that
went on it was not much tougher. Key was filed to fit after. Now
that most, if not all, cast iron widgets have some sort of alloying
elements in them and wrought iron is but a memory, chiseling like that
doesn't have a whole lot of uses. Stuff is cast a lot closer to
needed size now, too. One of the exercises I remember from a 1905
Audels was chiseling a set of parallel grooves in a cast iron block
using a cape chisel, then using a broader one to remove the strips,
was supposed to be like prepping the slide valve surface on a
locomotive cylinder casting. I imagine even then they'd use a shaper
or planer for such things but there was always a certain amount of old-
timey processes that apprentices were subjected to.

There are a bunch of those old 19th and early 20th century machine
shop books on archive.org with a lot of pointers to google books.
Lotsa winter reading!

Stan

"Denis G." wrote:

On Oct 14, 1:21 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
dan wrote:

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. But I did find a chisel. Worked much better than I would
have thought. By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.

About 15 years ago I needed to run sone new 25 pair telephone cables
in a radio station without putting them off the air. The only spot to
run the cable already had one cable, with no room to run another. The
were stunned when they came back and I had use a small cold chisel to
enlarge the hole around the existing cable, trough a concrete block. I
never did tell them how I got that nice square hole to pull the extra
three cables. Wrong tool, wrong application but a perfect install of
three more studio telephones! ;-)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Explain that it's a special cordless impact tool designed just for
this sort of situation. A slight surcharge on the bill, but
everything will be good as gold and you'll be up and running in a
jiffy...


I only charged a surcharge when they wanted to watch me work.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:03:14 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote:

On Oct 14, 1:21*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
dan wrote:

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking *on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. *I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. *I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. *But I did find a chisel. *Worked much better than I would
have thought. *By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.

* *About 15 years ago I needed to run sone new 25 pair telephone cables
in a radio station without putting them off the air. *The only spot to
run the cable already had one cable, with no room to run another. *The
were stunned when they came back and I had use a small cold chisel to
enlarge the hole around the existing cable, trough a concrete block. *I
never did tell them how I got that nice square hole to pull the extra
three cables. Wrong tool, wrong application but a perfect install of
three more studio telephones! ;-)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Explain that it's a special cordless impact tool designed just for
this sort of situation. A slight surcharge on the bill, but
everything will be good as gold and you'll be up and running in a
jiffy...
Like my collection of cordless drills downstairs with the big crown
gear with a crank attached, and those extended "U" shaped devices with
a knob on one crossbar and a funny tool holder on the other. :-)}
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Oct 14, 8:34*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
...

Based on what I've seen of their products, I would have given quite a
lot to attend a Soviet engineering school. *I wonder if the ones in
Russia are still of the same quality or whether they've gotten the
Western disease of mostly book-learning and little hands-on.

About 1985 I worked on a customized LSI-11 with an ex-Soviet computer
engineer who already had that condition. He had to make so many
changes to get his board working that he ran out of space on the
wirewrap board and added another small one in an envelope taped to the
back. Everyone else's design including mine worked with at most a few
added bypass caps. He knew the theory of the logic well enough but
didn't account for the practical details like propagation delays in
the clock distribution wiring.

Another Russian optical engineer I knew aimed lenses by bending the
mounting frame, a practice we might have used on a backwoods sawmill
but not on precision equipment. In fact I used opposed setscrews to
align the sawmill I built.

Maybe the difference is in the expected attitude of the operators and
maintenance people. We learned by experience to limit the
adjustability of machines going to large unionized factories.

jsw

On Oct 14, 11:57*pm, Gerald Miller wrote:
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:03:14 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."





wrote:
On Oct 14, 1:21*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
dan wrote:

Wes wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking *on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:52:26 -0400:

Today I had to mount some new tooling to an assembly fixture at work. *One problem, there
was metal in the way that would have been easy to remove on a milling machine but I can't
fit the fixture in the mill nor take the time to rip it completely apart to transport the
detail that needs rework.

So, I resorted to those cold chisel things that came with my assortments of pin punches. I
read once that key ways were often cut with chisels so I figured hell, I've done some
woodworking with wood chisels, I'll give it a shot.

It worked out better than I thought it would

I did similar a few weeks ago. *I needed a square hole to take the
shank of a carriage bolt. *I looked for a square file, but couldn't
find any. *But I did find a chisel. *Worked much better than I would
have thought. *By the time I did the forth one, it was easy.

* *About 15 years ago I needed to run sone new 25 pair telephone cables
in a radio station without putting them off the air. *The only spot to
run the cable already had one cable, with no room to run another. *The
were stunned when they came back and I had use a small cold chisel to
enlarge the hole around the existing cable, trough a concrete block. *I
never did tell them how I got that nice square hole to pull the extra
three cables. Wrong tool, wrong application but a perfect install of
three more studio telephones! ;-)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Explain that it's a special cordless impact tool designed just for
this sort of situation. *A slight surcharge on the bill, but
everything will be good as gold and you'll be up and running in a
jiffy...

Like my collection of cordless drills downstairs with the big crown
gear with a crank attached, and those extended "U" shaped devices with
a knob on one crossbar and a funny tool holder on the other. *:-)}
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And you get more exercise and muscle control using a bit brace --
something you can't claim with cordless drills. Well, at least they
can make time for exercise at the gym ..

Rich Grise wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 05:29:22 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Now that you know the name -- do a Google search to find more
details. Some of what I found was links to PDF files which were awkward
to get the URL


Right-click on the link, and in the popup context menu, select "copy
link location".

Then paste it wherever you want. :-)

Hope This Helps!
Rich



You might want to first go to www.tinyurl.com and "shrink" the long URL
into something which will fit on one line of a newsgroup post or an e-mail.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.