Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
:

xcept when working a wire-to-rope splice.
Yep... cept the racing sailors probably don't know the diff between a
fid
and a marlinspike.

LLoyd
Ah, yes we do. But not many of them can make a nice-looking long
splice. d8-)


NObody does long splices any more, Ed.

Synthetics are way to slippery for that.
There are millions of long eye splices in nylon rope in New Jersey boats
who haven't heard that. In fact, I've never seen one give way. For that
matter, I've never seen a short eye splice, properly done, give way.

As for straight long splices, I've done those a couple of times to prove
I could do it, but I'd rather buy a new piece of rope.

Uh Huh...
And so would every body else who values his hide or boat...
(except in New Jersey? VBG!)

The long version reduces strength by 10 to 15% if done perfectly
(and 20 to 50% if done sloppy~!)

I have some laid rope - anchor rodes and mooring lines.
The rest are all braid or cored.

That's what I figured. But all this talk about fids and marlinspikes, and
short versus long splices, let me to believe we were talking about laid
rope.


Yeah, pretty much me too.

But I CAN splice braid and some cored too.
But some of that stuff is a pure-D _____.


--

Richard Lamb

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
:

xcept when working a wire-to-rope splice.
Yep... cept the racing sailors probably don't know the diff between
a fid
and a marlinspike.

LLoyd
Ah, yes we do. But not many of them can make a nice-looking long
splice. d8-)


NObody does long splices any more, Ed.

Synthetics are way to slippery for that.
There are millions of long eye splices in nylon rope in New Jersey
boats who haven't heard that. In fact, I've never seen one give way.
For that matter, I've never seen a short eye splice, properly done,
give way.

As for straight long splices, I've done those a couple of times to
prove I could do it, but I'd rather buy a new piece of rope.

Uh Huh...
And so would every body else who values his hide or boat...
(except in New Jersey? VBG!)

The long version reduces strength by 10 to 15% if done perfectly
(and 20 to 50% if done sloppy~!)

I have some laid rope - anchor rodes and mooring lines.
The rest are all braid or cored.

That's what I figured. But all this talk about fids and marlinspikes, and
short versus long splices, let me to believe we were talking about laid
rope.


Yeah, pretty much me too.

But I CAN splice braid and some cored too.
But some of that stuff is a pure-D _____.

Sure, we have to do it with sailboat sheets, halyards, and other lines. I
hate it -- it seems vaguely perverse to splice cored rope -- but I've done
it.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"J. Clarke" fired this volley in
:

xcept when working a wire-to-rope splice.
Yep... cept the racing sailors probably don't know the diff between
a fid
and a marlinspike.

LLoyd
Ah, yes we do. But not many of them can make a nice-looking long
splice. d8-)

NObody does long splices any more, Ed.

Synthetics are way to slippery for that.
There are millions of long eye splices in nylon rope in New Jersey
boats who haven't heard that. In fact, I've never seen one give way.
For that matter, I've never seen a short eye splice, properly done,
give way.

As for straight long splices, I've done those a couple of times to
prove I could do it, but I'd rather buy a new piece of rope.

Uh Huh...
And so would every body else who values his hide or boat...
(except in New Jersey? VBG!)

The long version reduces strength by 10 to 15% if done perfectly
(and 20 to 50% if done sloppy~!)

I have some laid rope - anchor rodes and mooring lines.
The rest are all braid or cored.
That's what I figured. But all this talk about fids and marlinspikes, and
short versus long splices, let me to believe we were talking about laid
rope.

Yeah, pretty much me too.

But I CAN splice braid and some cored too.
But some of that stuff is a pure-D _____.

Sure, we have to do it with sailboat sheets, halyards, and other lines. I
hate it -- it seems vaguely perverse to splice cored rope -- but I've done
it.


Yeah. It does seem like a perversion of all that is right and holy.

But if you can do that, you can do about anything needed.

--

Richard Lamb

On 8/24/2010 12:13 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Ed fired this volley in news:4c73e344
:

Ah, yes we do. But not many of them can make a nice-looking long splice.
d8-)


Funny thing, that: I haven't been sailing in any capacity in about three
decades, but I still have occasion make splices, eyes, and grommets the
"classic" way -- maybe because that's the best way (still) to do it.

That's one thing about stranded rope--I don't care how _easy_ it is, a
splice in the braided stuff just doesn't _look_ right.

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:04:15 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:

Out of curiosity, what kind of furler do you have that uses a separate
halyard? Usually the jib head is shackled to the upper furler bearing
and a single halyard is all that's necessary. And how come a downhaul
on a furler jib?


Cheers,

John B.
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)


Hi John,

It's a CDI, which has it's own pulley built in at the top of the foil.

See page 2 for the diagram.
http://www.sailcdi.com/sailpdf/FF4&6...ual%207_06.pdf


That leaves both forward halyards (I have two) free for other use.

The port one is the one I use for the spinnaker halyard,
while starboard serves as the pole toping lift.

Ah Ha! Yes, I should have thought of that as I used an Australian made
system, similar to what you have, when I built a mainsail reefing
system on my boat. Probably the reason was that I somehow associate
"halyards" as being a line to the top of the mast. (which I suppose it
really is in reality :-)


Cheers,

John B.
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:45:40 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 8/24/2010 12:13 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Ed fired this volley in news:4c73e344
:

Ah, yes we do. But not many of them can make a nice-looking long splice.
d8-)


Funny thing, that: I haven't been sailing in any capacity in about three
decades, but I still have occasion make splices, eyes, and grommets the
"classic" way -- maybe because that's the best way (still) to do it.

That's one thing about stranded rope--I don't care how _easy_ it is, a
splice in the braided stuff just doesn't _look_ right.


I always though that eye splices in double-braid looked rather slick.
Much nicer then eyes in plastic three strand with the ends sticking
out :-)


Cheers,

John B.
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

On 2010-08-24, John B slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 23:15:38 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

[ ... ]

Whether lubbers can appreciate it or not, naming the lines by their function
does make sense.

Pulling the wrong line at the wrong time can be more than confusing -
it can cause things to break and people get hurt.

On my simple sloop, with only three sails, there are 20 control lines!

Main: halyard, topping lift, sheet, vang, traveler, and 2 reefing lines
Jib: halyard, furler halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the furling line.
Spinnaker: halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the sock control line.
Jib pole: Topping lift and guy (down haul)

Hmm ... sloop (my father's -- years ago):

Main and your choice of sizes of Jib or Spinnaker.

Main: Throat Halyard,
Peak halyard,
Downhaul at foot of boom to tension the luff.
Outhaul at end of boom.
Outhaul at end of gaff.
Sheet,
(I forget the name, but it kept the end of the boom at a
reasonable height without the sail in place until
the boom was placed in the scissors style boom crotch.
Backstays (not on the main, but had to be adjusted as the tack
changed.
And of course the three rows of short lines in the sail for
reefing

Jib (or Spinnaker): Halyard
two sheets (one either side of the mainmast).
a couple of rows of lines for reefing.
Nothing extra when the whisker pole was in service for the
Spinnaker or running wing and wing.

Out of curiosity, what kind of furler do you have that uses a separate
halyard? Usually the jib head is shackled to the upper furler bearing
and a single halyard is all that's necessary. And how come a downhaul
on a furler jib?

Perhaps for replacing it with a storm jib in serious weather? I
guess that partial furling could do in place of reefing.

Normally, the jib acted as its own downhaul in my experience --
but this craft was made long before roller furling was thought of -- and
before the Marconi rig had the right strength of materials to be
practical.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-08-24, John B slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 23:15:38 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

[ ... ]

Whether lubbers can appreciate it or not, naming the lines by their function
does make sense.

Pulling the wrong line at the wrong time can be more than confusing -
it can cause things to break and people get hurt.

On my simple sloop, with only three sails, there are 20 control lines!

Main: halyard, topping lift, sheet, vang, traveler, and 2 reefing lines
Jib: halyard, furler halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the furling line.
Spinnaker: halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the sock control line.
Jib pole: Topping lift and guy (down haul)

Hmm ... sloop (my father's -- years ago):

Main and your choice of sizes of Jib or Spinnaker.

Main: Throat Halyard,
Peak halyard,
Downhaul at foot of boom to tension the luff.
Outhaul at end of boom.
Outhaul at end of gaff.
Sheet,
(I forget the name, but it kept the end of the boom at a
reasonable height without the sail in place until
the boom was placed in the scissors style boom crotch.
Backstays (not on the main, but had to be adjusted as the tack
changed.
And of course the three rows of short lines in the sail for
reefing

Oh man, I love gaff rigged mains.
So many things to play with.


Jib (or Spinnaker): Halyard
two sheets (one either side of the mainmast).
a couple of rows of lines for reefing.
Nothing extra when the whisker pole was in service for the
Spinnaker or running wing and wing.

Out of curiosity, what kind of furler do you have that uses a separate
halyard? Usually the jib head is shackled to the upper furler bearing
and a single halyard is all that's necessary. And how come a downhaul
on a furler jib?

Perhaps for replacing it with a storm jib in serious weather? I
guess that partial furling could do in place of reefing.


It _can_, but it's a real bad idea to actually do it.

Because of the way the sail rolls up around the foil (on the forestay)
it tends to bag real bad. That causes the fabric to be stretched in the
middle of the sail, causing it to shape about like a dirty diaper.
And it's a permanent stretch too.

The jib that come on my boat has three very distinct scallops that are
easy to see in light air. When the wind picks up, it has way to much
camber (depth of curvature) - bagged out too much...

I've been playing with the idea of removing the roller furler and going
back to hank on jibs. That way I can have the right sail up to match the
wind conditions.

I've had some trouble rolling that bad boy in a couple of times when the
wind picked up over 20 mph rather suddenly.

I guess I tend to carry too much linen too long.

But even with the headsail rolled up, in a big wind that's a LOT of drag
in exactly the wrong place.

Normally, the jib acted as its own downhaul in my experience --
but this craft was made long before roller furling was thought of -- and
before the Marconi rig had the right strength of materials to be
practical.

Enjoy,
DoN.


You would not believe what some of the racing maniacs are doing with
modern materials.

Sailing anarchy is a good place to get a quick feel for it.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

Imagine 50 to 80 foot ocean racers doing over 30 knots.
Really...
And those are monohulls - not catamarans!

--

Richard Lamb

On 8/25/2010 2:59 AM, cavelamb wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-08-24, John B slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 23:15:38 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

[ ... ]

Whether lubbers can appreciate it or not, naming the lines by their
function
does make sense.

Pulling the wrong line at the wrong time can be more than confusing -
it can cause things to break and people get hurt.

On my simple sloop, with only three sails, there are 20 control lines!

Main: halyard, topping lift, sheet, vang, traveler, and 2 reefing lines
Jib: halyard, furler halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the furling
line.
Spinnaker: halyard, down haul, two sheets, and the sock control line.
Jib pole: Topping lift and guy (down haul)

Hmm ... sloop (my father's -- years ago):

Main and your choice of sizes of Jib or Spinnaker.

Main: Throat Halyard,
Peak halyard,
Downhaul at foot of boom to tension the luff.
Outhaul at end of boom.
Outhaul at end of gaff.
Sheet,
(I forget the name, but it kept the end of the boom at a
reasonable height without the sail in place until
the boom was placed in the scissors style boom crotch.
Backstays (not on the main, but had to be adjusted as the tack
changed.
And of course the three rows of short lines in the sail for
reefing

Oh man, I love gaff rigged mains.
So many things to play with.


Jib (or Spinnaker): Halyard
two sheets (one either side of the mainmast).
a couple of rows of lines for reefing.
Nothing extra when the whisker pole was in service for the
Spinnaker or running wing and wing.

Out of curiosity, what kind of furler do you have that uses a separate
halyard? Usually the jib head is shackled to the upper furler bearing
and a single halyard is all that's necessary. And how come a downhaul
on a furler jib?

Perhaps for replacing it with a storm jib in serious weather? I
guess that partial furling could do in place of reefing.


It _can_, but it's a real bad idea to actually do it.

Because of the way the sail rolls up around the foil (on the forestay)
it tends to bag real bad. That causes the fabric to be stretched in the
middle of the sail, causing it to shape about like a dirty diaper.
And it's a permanent stretch too.

The jib that come on my boat has three very distinct scallops that are
easy to see in light air. When the wind picks up, it has way to much
camber (depth of curvature) - bagged out too much...

I've been playing with the idea of removing the roller furler and going
back to hank on jibs. That way I can have the right sail up to match the
wind conditions.

I've had some trouble rolling that bad boy in a couple of times when the
wind picked up over 20 mph rather suddenly.

I guess I tend to carry too much linen too long.

But even with the headsail rolled up, in a big wind that's a LOT of drag
in exactly the wrong place.

Normally, the jib acted as its own downhaul in my experience --
but this craft was made long before roller furling was thought of -- and
before the Marconi rig had the right strength of materials to be
practical.

Enjoy,
DoN.


You would not believe what some of the racing maniacs are doing with
modern materials.

Sailing anarchy is a good place to get a quick feel for it.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

Imagine 50 to 80 foot ocean racers doing over 30 knots.
Really...
And those are monohulls - not catamarans!

Then there's Hydroptere . . .