No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

Ignoramus11290 fired this volley in
:

So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

Ig, it depends entirely on how fast your servo over-current detection or
following error aborts can handle the crash.

Hardly anything is "ruined permanently", so long as you're willing the
spend the time and money to fix it.

LLoyd

On 8/20/2010 4:27 PM, Ignoramus11290 wrote:

what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

Possible problems:

Break end mill
Injury from flying fragments of broken end mill
Big divot in side/top of vise
Ruined part
Injury from said part being flung from vise
Knock head out of tram (maybe not an issue with yours?)
Damage tool holder, spindle taper
Damage spindle bearings
Scrap one pair of underwear
Stress from massive surge of adrenaline

Almost any combination of the above is possible depending on the
situation. Highly unlikely to permanently damage the mill, but repairs
could be somewhat expensive depending what needed replacing.

Most of my mill files are under 1k and I essentially wrote them by hand.
I know exactly what is -supposed- to happen. If I have any doubts, I
will spend the time doing a dry run to make sure.


Jon

In article ,
Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

It depends. You will (almost) always kill the bit. You'll scar the vise
with the remains of the bit. At that point, either something breaks or
the drive system notices that things are not moving and hopefully goes
to a graceful error mode (ie, stop trying, shut down spindle if spindle
shut down is under program control), rather than making things worse.
Otherwise it becomes an "irresistible force .vs. immovable object" game
until one of them gives up.

In general, watch like a hawk (with a manual kill switch for the machine
- if you don't have one, make one or more) on any new program or
modification. With the router, I also like to "air cut" the whole
program with the machine zero raised an inch or more off the table,
looking for moves that don't belong. I don't always do this, but I've
had some nasty reminders when I don't (ie, trying a particular routine
thats supposed to do a circle cut which turns out to ignore z-axis
scaling - I was working about 25%, so the bit dropped 4 times deeper
than called for and took off smoking, while I grabbed for the kill
switch.)

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash in a superlative fashion and
damage things thought to be sturdy. If your drive logic/control allows
for it, setting some limits that are considerably lower than the drive
is capable of may help with damage control. You can also put mechanical
fuses (shear pins or slip clutches) into the drive train for a
non-computer-dependent limit on possible damages.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On 8/20/2010 5:02 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash

I saw a very high speed machining center at a trade show. Forget the
name, but it used a carousel sorta like a Brother or Fanuc RoboDrill.
When the tool came out from under the chip shield, it was suddenly just
THERE, 50 thou or so above the part. If there was a screwup in offsets
or something of that nature, the crash would be over and done with
before the brain could fully register what had just happened.

Here's one stellar example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1kU...eature=related
(fast forward to about 2:00)


Jon

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:20:18 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 8/20/2010 5:02 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash

I saw a very high speed machining center at a trade show. Forget the
name, but it used a carousel sorta like a Brother or Fanuc RoboDrill.
When the tool came out from under the chip shield, it was suddenly just
THERE, 50 thou or so above the part. If there was a screwup in offsets
or something of that nature, the crash would be over and done with
before the brain could fully register what had just happened.

Here's one stellar example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1kU...eature=related
(fast forward to about 2:00)


Jon


Oh..before I let Jon go...I dont suppose he or the other guys here have
seen what an OmniTurn does when its fancied up a bit....

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=omniturn&aq=f


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Gunner, I was watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etLSxAV15lQ

and wondering, how much are you asking for your omniturn.

i

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 23:55:01 -0500, Ignoramus11290
wrote:

Gunner, I was watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etLSxAV15lQ

and wondering, how much are you asking for your omniturn.

i

actually..I have one of each..GT75 and retrofitted Hardinge.

Both are well used and rough, and need me to go through them completely.

Ill sell one for $6-9k, the other for $9-11k.

Shall I take your order?

G

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On 2010-08-21, Ignoramus11290 wrote:
Gunner, I was watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etLSxAV15lQ

and wondering, how much are you asking for your omniturn.

And -- what it is doing in the last third -- totally in the
dark, but still machining sounds in the background. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:02:06 -0400, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

It depends. You will (almost) always kill the bit. You'll scar the vise
with the remains of the bit. At that point, either something breaks or
the drive system notices that things are not moving and hopefully goes
to a graceful error mode (ie, stop trying, shut down spindle if spindle
shut down is under program control), rather than making things worse.
Otherwise it becomes an "irresistible force .vs. immovable object" game
until one of them gives up.

In general, watch like a hawk (with a manual kill switch for the machine
- if you don't have one, make one or more) on any new program or
modification. With the router, I also like to "air cut" the whole
program with the machine zero raised an inch or more off the table,
looking for moves that don't belong. I don't always do this, but I've
had some nasty reminders when I don't (ie, trying a particular routine
thats supposed to do a circle cut which turns out to ignore z-axis
scaling - I was working about 25%, so the bit dropped 4 times deeper
than called for and took off smoking, while I grabbed for the kill
switch.)

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash in a superlative fashion and
damage things thought to be sturdy. If your drive logic/control allows
for it, setting some limits that are considerably lower than the drive
is capable of may help with damage control. You can also put mechanical
fuses (shear pins or slip clutches) into the drive train for a
non-computer-dependent limit on possible damages.


Indeed. Look in your software for a modal called "work shift"

Most ..not all ..many...software systems have a M or G code for work
shift..which means you say G10 Z3...which shifts ALL Z moves 3"
higher than your program tells it to. Use it at the beginning of the
program and it remains modal..active throughout the entire program.

Its like setting a universal offset and applying it to the quill. This
keeps you from sqewering bugs in your vise if you missed a decimal
point.

Every time I write a program for an OmniTurn 2 & 3 axis lathe..I use it
to keep the tools AWAY from the workpiece and run the program in single
block, then dead slow automatic before actually trying to run a part.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:20:42 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:02:06 -0400, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

It depends. You will (almost) always kill the bit. You'll scar the vise
with the remains of the bit. At that point, either something breaks or
the drive system notices that things are not moving and hopefully goes
to a graceful error mode (ie, stop trying, shut down spindle if spindle
shut down is under program control), rather than making things worse.
Otherwise it becomes an "irresistible force .vs. immovable object" game
until one of them gives up.

In general, watch like a hawk (with a manual kill switch for the machine
- if you don't have one, make one or more) on any new program or
modification. With the router, I also like to "air cut" the whole
program with the machine zero raised an inch or more off the table,
looking for moves that don't belong. I don't always do this, but I've
had some nasty reminders when I don't (ie, trying a particular routine
thats supposed to do a circle cut which turns out to ignore z-axis
scaling - I was working about 25%, so the bit dropped 4 times deeper
than called for and took off smoking, while I grabbed for the kill
switch.)

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash in a superlative fashion and
damage things thought to be sturdy. If your drive logic/control allows
for it, setting some limits that are considerably lower than the drive
is capable of may help with damage control. You can also put mechanical
fuses (shear pins or slip clutches) into the drive train for a
non-computer-dependent limit on possible damages.


Indeed. Look in your software for a modal called "work shift"

Most ..not all ..many...software systems have a M or G code for work
shift..which means you say G10 Z3...which shifts ALL Z moves 3"
higher than your program tells it to. Use it at the beginning of the
program and it remains modal..active throughout the entire program.

Its like setting a universal offset and applying it to the quill. This
keeps you from sqewering bugs in your vise if you missed a decimal
point.

Every time I write a program for an OmniTurn 2 & 3 axis lathe..I use it
to keep the tools AWAY from the workpiece and run the program in single
block, then dead slow automatic before actually trying to run a part.

Single Block - "boring!"

But on some occasions, "bored is good".

"In my experience" the outcome from hitting the vise depends on
what else happens. Going fast, and hitting it with an end mill =
broken end mill. Going slow (as in single block, and feed rate
override turned down to 1%) - the collet hit the aluminum jaws, and
melted enough aluminum to wrap twice around the tool holder - before
it torques out of the spindle. Which is when it alarmed out. Even at
slow, that happens awful damn fast. Oh ... ****! I'm told that was
a "mere" $40,000 repair bill. Very expensive education.


pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:03:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:20:42 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:02:06 -0400, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

It depends. You will (almost) always kill the bit. You'll scar the vise
with the remains of the bit. At that point, either something breaks or
the drive system notices that things are not moving and hopefully goes
to a graceful error mode (ie, stop trying, shut down spindle if spindle
shut down is under program control), rather than making things worse.
Otherwise it becomes an "irresistible force .vs. immovable object" game
until one of them gives up.

In general, watch like a hawk (with a manual kill switch for the machine
- if you don't have one, make one or more) on any new program or
modification. With the router, I also like to "air cut" the whole
program with the machine zero raised an inch or more off the table,
looking for moves that don't belong. I don't always do this, but I've
had some nasty reminders when I don't (ie, trying a particular routine
thats supposed to do a circle cut which turns out to ignore z-axis
scaling - I was working about 25%, so the bit dropped 4 times deeper
than called for and took off smoking, while I grabbed for the kill
switch.)

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash in a superlative fashion and
damage things thought to be sturdy. If your drive logic/control allows
for it, setting some limits that are considerably lower than the drive
is capable of may help with damage control. You can also put mechanical
fuses (shear pins or slip clutches) into the drive train for a
non-computer-dependent limit on possible damages.


Indeed. Look in your software for a modal called "work shift"

Most ..not all ..many...software systems have a M or G code for work
shift..which means you say G10 Z3...which shifts ALL Z moves 3"
higher than your program tells it to. Use it at the beginning of the
program and it remains modal..active throughout the entire program.

Its like setting a universal offset and applying it to the quill. This
keeps you from sqewering bugs in your vise if you missed a decimal
point.

Every time I write a program for an OmniTurn 2 & 3 axis lathe..I use it
to keep the tools AWAY from the workpiece and run the program in single
block, then dead slow automatic before actually trying to run a part.

Single Block - "boring!"

But on some occasions, "bored is good".

"In my experience" the outcome from hitting the vise depends on
what else happens. Going fast, and hitting it with an end mill =
broken end mill. Going slow (as in single block, and feed rate
override turned down to 1%) - the collet hit the aluminum jaws, and
melted enough aluminum to wrap twice around the tool holder - before
it torques out of the spindle. Which is when it alarmed out. Even at
slow, that happens awful damn fast. Oh ... ****! I'm told that was
a "mere" $40,000 repair bill. Very expensive education.


pyotr


Ive never seen an Omni knocked out of alignment or busted that way.
There simply isn that kind of mass there...chuckle and the servos are
only 500 in/lb

I did see one cratered by forklift once though.....

that was a $34k bill.....


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:18:42 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:03:59 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:20:42 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:02:06 -0400, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

It depends. You will (almost) always kill the bit. You'll scar the vise
with the remains of the bit. At that point, either something breaks or
the drive system notices that things are not moving and hopefully goes
to a graceful error mode (ie, stop trying, shut down spindle if spindle
shut down is under program control), rather than making things worse.
Otherwise it becomes an "irresistible force .vs. immovable object" game
until one of them gives up.

In general, watch like a hawk (with a manual kill switch for the machine
- if you don't have one, make one or more) on any new program or
modification. With the router, I also like to "air cut" the whole
program with the machine zero raised an inch or more off the table,
looking for moves that don't belong. I don't always do this, but I've
had some nasty reminders when I don't (ie, trying a particular routine
thats supposed to do a circle cut which turns out to ignore z-axis
scaling - I was working about 25%, so the bit dropped 4 times deeper
than called for and took off smoking, while I grabbed for the kill
switch.)

This is one area where having super-fast, super-powerful axis drives can
become super-expensive when they crash in a superlative fashion and
damage things thought to be sturdy. If your drive logic/control allows
for it, setting some limits that are considerably lower than the drive
is capable of may help with damage control. You can also put mechanical
fuses (shear pins or slip clutches) into the drive train for a
non-computer-dependent limit on possible damages.


Indeed. Look in your software for a modal called "work shift"

Most ..not all ..many...software systems have a M or G code for work
shift..which means you say G10 Z3...which shifts ALL Z moves 3"
higher than your program tells it to. Use it at the beginning of the
program and it remains modal..active throughout the entire program.

Its like setting a universal offset and applying it to the quill. This
keeps you from sqewering bugs in your vise if you missed a decimal
point.

Every time I write a program for an OmniTurn 2 & 3 axis lathe..I use it
to keep the tools AWAY from the workpiece and run the program in single
block, then dead slow automatic before actually trying to run a part.

Single Block - "boring!"

But on some occasions, "bored is good".

"In my experience" the outcome from hitting the vise depends on
what else happens. Going fast, and hitting it with an end mill =
broken end mill. Going slow (as in single block, and feed rate
override turned down to 1%) - the collet hit the aluminum jaws, and
melted enough aluminum to wrap twice around the tool holder - before
it torques out of the spindle. Which is when it alarmed out. Even at
slow, that happens awful damn fast. Oh ... ****! I'm told that was
a "mere" $40,000 repair bill. Very expensive education.


pyotr


Ive never seen an Omni knocked out of alignment or busted that way.
There simply isn that kind of mass there...chuckle and the servos are
only 500 in/lb

I did see one cratered by forklift once though.....

that was a $34k bill.....


THis was a Cinncinati Arrow?sabre. I have come to realize that I
am not a Machnist, but an operator. A good one, though, but I am not
the sort to wnat to know allthe specs of the machine I'm running. ANd
I don't have a :feel: for it. The "sounds right" ability, Feeds &
speeds vs alloy, etc. Heck, I've only been at it three years, I know
where to put my lunch bucket and how to find the coffee machine, but I
still have to look up anything more technical. Which, in itself, is
not a bad thing.

pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On 8/20/2010 8:20 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Every time I write a program for an OmniTurn 2& 3 axis lathe..I use it
to keep the tools AWAY from the workpiece and run the program in single
block, then dead slow automatic before actually trying to run a part.

Yeah, an Omniturn can thrash a tool in 1/3 of an eye blink... I've done
that a couple times when writing code for back turning, and forgetting a
minus sign on the X...


Jon

Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

"Crash" is a relative term. Depending on what your feed, spindle speed,
tool and "crash" area is it could result in anything from a scuff on the
side of the vice before a near instant axis fault shutdown, of it could
result in your part being cut out of your vise. Remember that your vise
is metal and your tools are intended to cut metal, so if the "crash"
results in traveling into the vise at a modest feed rate and depth of
cut, nothing bad may happen beyond messing up the vise. The big machines
have been known to mill big chunks of vise away without slowing down or
generating any faults.

On 2010-08-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

"Crash" is a relative term. Depending on what your feed, spindle speed,
tool and "crash" area is it could result in anything from a scuff on the
side of the vice before a near instant axis fault shutdown, of it could
result in your part being cut out of your vise. Remember that your vise
is metal and your tools are intended to cut metal, so if the "crash"
results in traveling into the vise at a modest feed rate and depth of
cut, nothing bad may happen beyond messing up the vise. The big machines
have been known to mill big chunks of vise away without slowing down or
generating any faults.

What I meant was this: say, I lose the spindle so that the spindle is
at the level of the vise (and not just the tool) and then I crash it
into a vise. What would happen?

Ignoramus11290 wrote:

On 2010-08-21, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus11290 wrote:

No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

i

"Crash" is a relative term. Depending on what your feed, spindle speed,
tool and "crash" area is it could result in anything from a scuff on the
side of the vice before a near instant axis fault shutdown, of it could
result in your part being cut out of your vise. Remember that your vise
is metal and your tools are intended to cut metal, so if the "crash"
results in traveling into the vise at a modest feed rate and depth of
cut, nothing bad may happen beyond messing up the vise. The big machines
have been known to mill big chunks of vise away without slowing down or
generating any faults.

What I meant was this: say, I lose the spindle so that the spindle is
at the level of the vise (and not just the tool) and then I crash it
into a vise. What would happen?

If your controls are set properly, a near instant axis fault and
shutdown. The spindle is designed to handle the high side loads of
cutting at the side forces the machine is capable of generating. You
could expect some scuff marks on the side of the spindle and vise, and
probably little more.

Ignoramus11290 wrote:
What I meant was this: say, I lose the spindle so that the spindle is
at the level of the vise (and not just the tool) and then I crash it
into a vise. What would happen?

My machine has the original round-ram swivel joint with a modified
adaptor to hold the 1J head I put on it.
I have had a couple crashes or overloads where the swivel slipped and I
had to re-tram the machine.
Your machine has the rigid ram, so it doesn't have that "safety
mechanism". I suspect the Series 1 head/spindle
can withstand 500 - 1000 Lbs of radial force on the spindle without
major damage, but above that it could cause
damage to the spindle or bearings. Your servo amps may be able to
deliver more than 1000 Lbs linear force to
the table, so damage is possible.

Jon

On 2010-08-21, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11290 wrote:
What I meant was this: say, I lose the spindle so that the spindle is
at the level of the vise (and not just the tool) and then I crash it
into a vise. What would happen?

My machine has the original round-ram swivel joint with a modified
adaptor to hold the 1J head I put on it. I have had a couple
crashes or overloads where the swivel slipped and I had to re-tram
the machine. Your machine has the rigid ram, so it doesn't have
that "safety mechanism". I suspect the Series 1 head/spindle can
withstand 500 - 1000 Lbs of radial force on the spindle without
major damage, but above that it could cause damage to the spindle or
bearings. Your servo amps may be able to deliver more than 1000 Lbs
linear force to the table, so damage is possible.

I think that there is a little potentiometer on the amps to limit
torque (current), I should try to adjust this so that no more than,
say, 500 lbs is delivered to any axis. I will look into this.

I had this safety addition recently to inhibit amps when EMC is not
controlling position (due to following error, or just being turned
off), and that made me very happy. This would be another useful safety
feature.

I want to finish everything with 3 axis before adding spindle encoders
or moving into other esoterics like 4th axis.

i

On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:57:00 -0500, Ignoramus25139
wrote:

On 2010-08-21, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11290 wrote:
What I meant was this: say, I lose the spindle so that the spindle is
at the level of the vise (and not just the tool) and then I crash it
into a vise. What would happen?

My machine has the original round-ram swivel joint with a modified
adaptor to hold the 1J head I put on it. I have had a couple
crashes or overloads where the swivel slipped and I had to re-tram
the machine. Your machine has the rigid ram, so it doesn't have
that "safety mechanism". I suspect the Series 1 head/spindle can
withstand 500 - 1000 Lbs of radial force on the spindle without
major damage, but above that it could cause damage to the spindle or
bearings. Your servo amps may be able to deliver more than 1000 Lbs
linear force to the table, so damage is possible.

I think that there is a little potentiometer on the amps to limit
torque (current), I should try to adjust this so that no more than,
say, 500 lbs is delivered to any axis. I will look into this.

I had this safety addition recently to inhibit amps when EMC is not
controlling position (due to following error, or just being turned
off), and that made me very happy. This would be another useful safety
feature.

Indeed. As you are not running the same parts day after day IE..a
commercial shop....you can drop torque limits quite a long way and not
have an issue with the front office G

Make the machine last longer too WHEN you do something wrong.

I want to finish everything with 3 axis before adding spindle encoders
or moving into other esoterics like 4th axis.

i

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Ignoramus25139 wrote:

I think that there is a little potentiometer on the amps to limit
torque (current), I should try to adjust this so that no more than,
say, 500 lbs is delivered to any axis. I will look into this.

But, this limits your acceleration, so you get rounded corners. If you
set the acceleration
in EMC higher than the amps permit, then you get following errors.

Jon

Ignoramus11290 wrote:
No, nothing happened, I just want to know a little more.

What happens if I make a wrong instruction and, say, crash a spindle
into a vise. What would happen in reality? It is somewhere in the
range between "nothing special" and "explode in a giant fireball". So,
in reality, what happens if I crash a running spindle into a vise or
something of that sort. Would the mill be ruined permanently?

The overload clutch on the Bridgeport Series I power feed is supposed to
be set at 200 Lbs.
I took that as a guide, and designed my Z axis to be fairly weak so it
would stall around there.
I have plunged into a vise jaw once. Since it was hardened, it just
left a polished ring on the jaw, and did bad things to the cutting edges
of the end mill.

The X and Y axes are quite a bit stronger. I have broken off a 3/8" end
mill while jogging around and the spindle wasn't running.
3/8 and 1/2" cutters will probably fail without doing serious damage to
the spindle bearings. If you have a really solid crash with a larger
tool in the spindle, it could damage the spindle bearings, the QC socket
or maybe bend the spindle.

The Bridgeport is pretty tough, so a minor crash with modest tooling
will just break the cutter.
You may have flying debris in that case.

Jon