Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

stryped wrote:
Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.


And then you try to make it pay.
And work your ass off to make it big..

And then realize you forgot why you enjoyed it in the first place.

--

Richard Lamb

On 8/13/2010 6:49 AM, stryped wrote:

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.


I ask myself that all the time. Then browsing ebay, I see people selling
all sorts of custom machined stuff, things I'd never have thought of. I
have a good track record for coming up with a great idea, then doing
nothing with it. Then seeing someone else take that great idea and turn
it into a successful product.

Couple years ago I set out with a friend to start making custom
motorcycle parts. We settled on carbon fiber shift links for Harleys.
Initially they were actually bonded to machined barrels on the ends, but
the bonding process turned out to be a pain in the ass in production. So
I redesigned to use an aluminum core rod that the rod ends thread into
and the CF tube is now just for looks. Nobody advertises Harley parts
touting light weight as a feature... lol.

Anyway, we got into the J&P catalog just in time for the economy to take
a ****. We're sitting on thousands of dollars worth of inventory, and
have jack all for sales. Everyone that sees the link in person is highly
impressed with how well made they are. But that has not translated into
sales. Point being, making a great product is only part of the equation.
You have to be able to reach your target market and advertise
effectively there. Mike and I are good at design and making stuff.
We apparently suck at marketing...


Jon

On 8/13/2010 7:33 AM, cavelamb wrote:

And then you try to make it pay.
And work your ass off to make it big..

And then realize you forgot why you enjoyed it in the first place.

Easy to make a few hobby bucks, but for anyone one aspiring to a real
business, you've really hit the nail on the head...


Jon

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
On 8/13/2010 6:49 AM, stryped wrote:

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.


I ask myself that all the time. Then browsing ebay, I see people selling
all sorts of custom machined stuff, things I'd never have thought of. I
have a good track record for coming up with a great idea, then doing
nothing with it. Then seeing someone else take that great idea and turn it
into a successful product.

Couple years ago I set out with a friend to start making custom motorcycle
parts. We settled on carbon fiber shift links for Harleys. Initially they
were actually bonded to machined barrels on the ends, but the bonding
process turned out to be a pain in the ass in production. So I redesigned
to use an aluminum core rod that the rod ends thread into and the CF tube
is now just for looks. Nobody advertises Harley parts touting light weight
as a feature... lol.

Anyway, we got into the J&P catalog just in time for the economy to take a
****. We're sitting on thousands of dollars worth of inventory, and have
jack all for sales. Everyone that sees the link in person is highly
impressed with how well made they are. But that has not translated into
sales. Point being, making a great product is only part of the equation.
You have to be able to reach your target market and advertise effectively
there.

And they have to have some disposable income.

Mike and I are good at design and making stuff.
We apparently suck at marketing...

You reached me. My wife still has her Harley. (I sold all of mine in favor
of a Kawi Vulcan) She loves doodads and expensive custom parts. We just
aren't buying much right now.

I think for a garage machinist or metal worker they need to come up with
tons of different small make to order type parts and only keep a couple of
each on the shelf. Or learn to make something you can use to make something
else. Then make a good relationship with a production shop that is slow
(Better yet a couple so they can't make you dependent on them and gouge you,
and never tell them who your clients are), and if you get a big order for
one part contract them to make it for you.

if you start as a hobby, there are many things that you can produce
competitively. Once you build a reputation with some community, you can
parlay that into additional work - it won't make you rich but it will pay
for the tools.

stryped wrote:

Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

If I had a great idea, I'd be doing it. If I get more great ideas than I can handle, I'll
look you up.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"stryped" wrote in message
...
Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

I personally think that if OCC was a stand alone motorcycle shop, they would
have a tough time. Some of the machinery they have is way out of the reach
of someone doing that type work, and a lot of that is provided by the
manufacturers and advertisers. If you've ever run a shop, you recognize the
gobs of down time, waiting on 3rd parties, and just screw ups that have to
be done over.

I personally see Paulie and Numb Nut Son doing work and just tacking things
together with blobs of MIG weld, and not even a hood. Then I see the tacked
article handed off to a real TIG welder who does all the magic. If some of
the stuff Paulie and Numb Nut Son were to go to the painter, it would look
like crap. There's a lot of hours to get stuff geometrically straight so
that part A fits through part B and C in a straight line. They make it look
like zip, zap, done.

There is a ton of side work that is not shown that takes place to get the
bike out the door, and those costs are never addressed.

Do the math on a bike shop, and figure the man hours it it takes to do one
of those bikes. I see the money in the marketing and T shirts and hats and
endorsements, and the bikes as just a fufu thing and a reason for a show.

This would not happen in a real shop. Math and reality would take over.

Look at that Jessie James or whatever the heck his name was. He had a cute
hottie wife that was making big bux, and he couldn't even take care of that.
Building high speed garbage trucks. Doing projects even a demented
metalworker wouldn't take on. Where's the market on those? Who's going to
buy them except a Hollywood reality show? I personally have no interest
(yawn) in those "buildoff" competitions where the result is something that
is useless and couldn't even be licensed. So what if it has 2 million
horsepower and goes almost as fast as the speed of light.

Back to reality.

Side jobs. Market niche in a market where people have disposable income.
Buy/resell, as Iggy mentioned. Repair in a market where people are trying
to keep stuff running rather than replace.

Make serious money? No. Not unless you get lucky, or some cable channel
picks you up. You seriously think those American Pickers are getting rich?
On some days, they barely make expenses.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
On 8/13/2010 4:08 PM, Steve B wrote:

You seriously think those American Pickers are getting rich?
On some days, they barely make expenses.

They're coming to my town, a friend has been recruited to help steer them
toward some interesting collectors. Yeah, while maybe they used to just
drive around cold, these days it appears they try to get things set up in
advance...

Might get a chance to meet them, be interesting to see what they're like
in real life. Just so long as they don't show up at my place and try any
picking... lol.


Jon

I'm sure they are making money, and now there is a line of goods available.
How long will it be hot? I see that Deadliest Catch guys are advertising on
Geico. At least they have moved on from that f'ing gecko thing.

The pickers are a couple of regular guys, and that comes through in their
show. The slice of Americana also comes through. But they do drive a
Mercedes all over the country, have a warehouse and overhead, have an
employee, and they both have to clear about ten thousand a month to live a
reasonable lifestyle.

Try doing that in side work.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 8/13/2010 4:08 PM, Steve B wrote:

You seriously think those American Pickers are getting rich?
On some days, they barely make expenses.

They're coming to my town, a friend has been recruited to help steer
them toward some interesting collectors. Yeah, while maybe they used to
just drive around cold, these days it appears they try to get things set
up in advance...

Might get a chance to meet them, be interesting to see what they're like
in real life. Just so long as they don't show up at my place and try any
picking... lol.


Jon

On 8/13/2010 11:58 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Jon wrote in message
...
On 8/13/2010 4:08 PM, Steve B wrote:

You seriously think those American Pickers are getting rich?
On some days, they barely make expenses.

They're coming to my town, a friend has been recruited to help steer them
toward some interesting collectors. Yeah, while maybe they used to just
drive around cold, these days it appears they try to get things set up in
advance...

Might get a chance to meet them, be interesting to see what they're like
in real life. Just so long as they don't show up at my place and try any
picking... lol.


Jon

I'm sure they are making money, and now there is a line of goods available.
How long will it be hot? I see that Deadliest Catch guys are advertising on
Geico. At least they have moved on from that f'ing gecko thing.

Nahh. That's the Caveman line of ads that has been going along parallel
to the Gecko for 6 years now.

The pickers are a couple of regular guys, and that comes through in their
show. The slice of Americana also comes through. But they do drive a
Mercedes all over the country, have a warehouse and overhead, have an
employee, and they both have to clear about ten thousand a month to live a
reasonable lifestyle.

Try doing that in side work.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:01:51 -0500, Ignoramus19069
wrote:

I personally have never seen anyone who is able to successfully make
money (after adjusting for costs of electricity, raw material, tooling
etc) in a garage, making stuff in their free time. Not that it is not
possible at all, just rare.

I just bought some of the tooling from Nicholson Performance which
made at least two pistol related tools. I didn't ask the owner
whether he made a decent living primarily from those two, but he's
selling his shop and moving south where the cost of living is lower
and the weather warmer than PA. Apparently he's getting out of the
machining business entirely. His shop was all manual. No CNC. He
doesn't look like the usual retirment age, so my assumption is that
it's difficult to earn a living in a small home shop.

I don't want a new career when I retire from my daytime job, but I've
wondered if I could use my shop to make a few bucks to support my
hobby.

Not to hijack the thread, but what was interesting was talking to him
about import tooling. Most of his was imported and he talked about
buying on price in the beginning and being disappointed by the
quality. He learned that there were good quality and low quality
imports. Much of his stuff was from Enco, MHC Industrial, MSC, and
Grizzly. The lathe and mill were both from Grizzly and he was
satisfied with their performance although he did replace the lathe
bearings with Timken bearings. Both machines are currently available
on the Lancaster or Harrisburg Craigslist, I forget which. I think
his prices are a little on the high side for the machines because he
hasn't been following the used machine prices, but they may drop in
time.

RWL

stryped wrote in news:05a886e1-9e56-47d1-b7ee-
:

Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

A friend of mine was a free-lance custom machinist that worked out of his
home shop. He passed away about a year ago, unfortunately.

His secret was that he got hooked up with some orthopedic surgeons.
There's all sorts of FDA headaches if you make hardware that goes INTO
and STAYS in the body, but they need tools to precisely cut ends of bone,
drill holes, etc. It's all stainless steel, and they pay big bucks for
custom made stuff. They would tell him "we need a tool that does THIS",
and he'd work with them on a design and fabricate them. Heck, one of his
big money makers was just an array of stainless steel hammers in
different weights. He also made stainless steel "nails". They were used
to hold drilling & cutting jigs onto the ends of broken bones. This was
in Boston, and presumably these were doctors from a research hospital
developing new techniques. I suspect he got additional customers when
the word got around about the tools he helped develop.

Not sure how he got linked up with them, but he'd barely make a nickle on
a lot of his simple repair jobs for folks in town. Any time his bank
account was running low, he'd crank out a batch of hammers for the
orthopedic crowd. It certainly didn't hurt that the guy was a real
artist. He used to teach silversmithing at one of the local art museums.
The hammers were works of art themselves, with a bead blast finish, and
knurled oval tubular handles. I assumed he knurled them & then
"ovalized" them in a press before welding them onto the heads.

Making money in a home shop with any sort of production work is probably
really tough unless you have CNC. His trick was doing custom work that
big shops won't touch, and the design aspect made it a lot more
interesting. Having customers with deep pockets helps too. Most folks
can't afford to pay a decent wage for high quality custom work.

There are also a lot of customs gunsmiths around the country, but there
are legal hassles involved, and a lot of it requires specialized
knowledge above & beyond just running a mill & lathe.

Doug White

"J. Clarke" wrote

Nahh. That's the Caveman line of ads that has been going along parallel
to the Gecko for 6 years now.

You're right. I don't know what I know. I need to just get rid of this
keyboard and read what you write.

Steve

On 2010-08-14, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
I don't want a new career when I retire from my daytime job, but I've
wondered if I could use my shop to make a few bucks to support my
hobby.

I was wondering about the same thing.

i

As an aside to this thread:

I worked for a manufacturing company in Louisiana that did CNC work and
plasma cutting. And fine TIG welding to bring it all together. They had a
laser cutting bed from TRUMPF that cost $700,000. They had other bending
machines and cutting machines that were state of the art, and all linked by
CAD/CAM.

The boss was having trouble making payments that high, and called Trumpf to
discuss the situation. Trumpf said that they would make some phone calls.

Trumpf called Caterpillar and Ford, and got them so much work they had to
hire more guys and run two shifts.

Point is that if one does want to do the legwork and gets lucky, they can
hook up with some specialty niche, and do well. It may take a while, and
you might go through a few, and payment might be slow, but that's biz. I
knew a guy who retired to a picture post card perfect rural Utah town with
spectacular fishing and hunting nearby. All he made was tiny fasteners that
he sold to model train manufacturers. He could ship his whole monthly
output in a 5 gallon bucket, and made good money.

If you know your stuff, it isn't making it that's a problem, it's selling
it/marketing it. And now that the business atmosphere has changed to
foreign manufacturers who can beat you up on price, and less disposable
income among the regular buying crowd, there's that, too.

Trouble is, "side jobs" are usually intended to be a sideline income, using
extra time, or at least not a ton of time each week, so as to leave time for
sleeping, eating, kissing the baby and playing with mama, working your other
job, etc. Some of these take on a life of their own, and then the demands
put you in the 60-80 hour a week category. Then, if you quit your day job,
it better make enough to pay the whole nut and have some left over.

My thoughts from BTDT.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 2010-08-14, Doug White wrote:
stryped wrote in news:05a886e1-9e56-47d1-b7ee-
:

Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

A friend of mine was a free-lance custom machinist that worked out of his
home shop. He passed away about a year ago, unfortunately.

His secret was that he got hooked up with some orthopedic surgeons.
There's all sorts of FDA headaches if you make hardware that goes INTO
and STAYS in the body, but they need tools to precisely cut ends of bone,
drill holes, etc. It's all stainless steel, and they pay big bucks for
custom made stuff. They would tell him "we need a tool that does THIS",
and he'd work with them on a design and fabricate them. Heck, one of his
big money makers was just an array of stainless steel hammers in
different weights. He also made stainless steel "nails". They were used
to hold drilling & cutting jigs onto the ends of broken bones. This was
in Boston, and presumably these were doctors from a research hospital
developing new techniques. I suspect he got additional customers when
the word got around about the tools he helped develop.

Not sure how he got linked up with them, but he'd barely make a nickle on
a lot of his simple repair jobs for folks in town. Any time his bank
account was running low, he'd crank out a batch of hammers for the
orthopedic crowd. It certainly didn't hurt that the guy was a real
artist. He used to teach silversmithing at one of the local art museums.
The hammers were works of art themselves, with a bead blast finish, and
knurled oval tubular handles. I assumed he knurled them & then
"ovalized" them in a press before welding them onto the heads.

Making money in a home shop with any sort of production work is probably
really tough unless you have CNC. His trick was doing custom work that
big shops won't touch, and the design aspect made it a lot more
interesting. Having customers with deep pockets helps too. Most folks
can't afford to pay a decent wage for high quality custom work.

There are also a lot of customs gunsmiths around the country, but there
are legal hassles involved, and a lot of it requires specialized
knowledge above & beyond just running a mill & lathe.

I have seen one gunsmith like this, he was pretty poor.

i

--I've found the 'hard part' to be not so much getting customers
in the door as getting customers who spread the word to generate *more*
customers. I've got one repeat customer I do work for on occasion but one
ain't enough to pay the bills.
--OTOH I get to spend 'down time' working on my own projects and
posting progress on various social sites at least makes it known to a wider
audience what my shop can do. Slow going tho...

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : A human without a critter
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : is incomplete..
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:45:32 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:


I just bought some of the tooling from Nicholson Performance which
made at least two pistol related tools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIdBWd-zK9Q




"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:45:32 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:


I just bought some of the tooling from Nicholson Performance which
made at least two pistol related tools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP9SFJUjKOg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kex_cNySuI



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

A friend of mine was a free-lance custom machinist that worked out of his
home shop. He passed away about a year ago, unfortunately.

His secret was that he got hooked up with some orthopedic surgeons.
There's all sorts of FDA headaches if you make hardware that goes INTO
and STAYS in the body, but they need tools to precisely cut ends of bone,
drill holes, etc.

A similar story for you. An orthopedic surgeon I know always used
something called Knowles pins when he did fracture work. The company
that supplied these was the sole manufacturer and they decided to end
production. He showed them to me and I took a sample to friend who
has a tool and die shop as a potential business line. He made up a
dozen of them without difficulty and I gave them to the surgeon. When
the original manufacturer found out that a local shop made some, they
quickly reinstituted production of Knowles pins. I have no idea why
they decided to stop production in the first place; I was told that
they were a popular item among the orthopedic surgeons who had trained
at Temple Univ in Philly, so it wasn't like the local surgeon was the
only purchaser.

RWL

I just bought some of the tooling from Nicholson Performance which
made at least two pistol related tools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP9SFJUjKOg

I forgot about the saw tensioner gage. He mentioned them to me and I
bought a new dial indicator for $2 identical to the one in the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kex_cNySuI

He hadn't mentioned the stuck bullet remover, but he did show me parts
from the rear sight alignment tool for pistols.

RWL

On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:49:29 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Watched Orange County Choppers last night. I know, it is reality tv
and you never know the whole story. I know the dad started making
ornamental iron in his garage or something.

Is there anythign someone can do in his own shop part time starting
out that would be some income? Even if you had to buy some equipment?
I always hear people doing this starting out then turnign it into a
business.

Just curious your opinion.

If you surf for awhile you can find some interesting stuff, let your
imagination go. Granted this one is a bit large.

http://www.juzztv.com/watch_video.php?v=G423R29XKUYO

SW