I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

i

"Ignoramus8473" wrote in message
...
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

Usually people go for a rotary table. Then you can "swivel" your work piece
in a controlled repeatable manner. Put a motor on your rotary table and,
"BAM!" 4 axis machining. I can usually clamp most work pieces without one
to get what I want, but it would be nice for a little more consistent tooth
position for cutting some types of gears. If I had a bigger working
envelope I would be really tempted to go 5 axis and put a trunnion table or
a chuck and spindle on top of a rotary table. There are some pockets that
are just a pain to program using just 3 axis.

On Jul 24, 10:34*am, Ignoramus8473
wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

i

Thats a personal pref. Swivels dont hurt to have IMO, but a versital
necessity for manuals.
Toolmakers like me use to through them out.
Rotary cross slide- table is the manual equivalant to a 2X CNC.

Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

It is easy to align the vise to the X axis and then you can do anything
with CNC. I found very early that the swivel base gave up a LOT of
rigidity, to the point you could see the vise vibrate on heavy cuts.
Machining went a lot better when I took it off.

Jon

On Jul 24, 11:16*am, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

It is easy to align the vise to the X axis and then you can do anything
with CNC. *I found very early that the swivel base gave up a LOT of
rigidity, to the point you could see the vise vibrate on heavy cuts. *
Machining went a lot better when I took it off.

Jon

well ya............. what are you hogging on a manual thats vibrating
it loose? broken tap E/M :-)
more cutter teeth = smoother cut?
5 flt apkt type inserts are key. ie : ingersol- saweet - no coolant
neceassary just a air blast or preferably "cool gun"

On 2010-07-24, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus8473" wrote in message
...
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

Usually people go for a rotary table. Then you can "swivel" your work piece
in a controlled repeatable manner. Put a motor on your rotary table and,
"BAM!" 4 axis machining. I can usually clamp most work pieces without one
to get what I want, but it would be nice for a little more consistent tooth
position for cutting some types of gears. If I had a bigger working
envelope I would be really tempted to go 5 axis and put a trunnion table or
a chuck and spindle on top of a rotary table. There are some pockets that
are just a pain to program using just 3 axis.

Bob, I have a Troyke CNC rotary table (no control, just a servo driven
table). It does not seem to work. I have not even started looking it
it, as I want to work on one project at a time. But I want to fix it
soon, if it is really broken, and use as a 4th axis.

i

On 2010-07-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

It is easy to align the vise to the X axis and then you can do anything
with CNC. I found very early that the swivel base gave up a LOT of
rigidity, to the point you could see the vise vibrate on heavy cuts.
Machining went a lot better when I took it off.

I have the same exact feeling. Thanks

i

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

It is easy to align the vise to the X axis and then you can do anything
with CNC. I found very early that the swivel base gave up a LOT of
rigidity, to the point you could see the vise vibrate on heavy cuts.
Machining went a lot better when I took it off.

Jon

Ditto what Jon said about rigidity. I also like keys on the vise bottom.
Just slide the vise in the slots and its square. Saves a lot of setup time.

karl

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:32:05 -0500, Ignoramus8473
wrote:

On 2010-07-24, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

It is easy to align the vise to the X axis and then you can do anything
with CNC. I found very early that the swivel base gave up a LOT of
rigidity, to the point you could see the vise vibrate on heavy cuts.
Machining went a lot better when I took it off.

I have the same exact feeling. Thanks

i

Same here. Go into most commercial shops and the vises are all without
the swivels.

Gunner, who has a stack of swivels someplace..but none on his machines.

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Karl Townsend wrote:
Ditto what Jon said about rigidity. I also like keys on the vise bottom.
Just slide the vise in the slots and its square. Saves a lot of setup time.

I generally align the vise jaws to the X axis within .001" I rarely put
the vise body along the X where the keys could fit the slots, as so much
of the time the long edge of the parts is parallel to the jaws. Due to
a small Bridgeport (the oldest round-ram turret millers had a 9" travel
on the Y axis, and do to some goofs in my retrofit, I now have only
about 7.5 inches travel that way). I have a later Bridgeport 12" knee,
but need to come up with a number of parts to retrofit it on my
machine. I wouldn't trust the keys for alignment unless I had tweaked
them myself. The table slots are not precision machined parallel to the
ways, at least on my machine.

Jon

Ignoramus8473 wrote:

I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

i

There is no practical reason to use the swivel on a cnc mill unless you have it mounted to
an angle plate to effect an A or B axis.

My Kurt vise sits on top of a Kurt base that Steve Saling, AKA GarlicDude from A.M.C sent
me a long time ago. I had to insist on paying for the shipping cost just to feel right
about his generosity.

Steve wanted me to tell him when I actually used the swivel feature on my BP. I've used
it about 3 times but when I need it, it is priceless. Same for the swivel vise at work.

The joy of CNC is that you don't need a rotary table or a swivel vise to make
non-orthagonal cuts.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 2010-07-24, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus8473 wrote:

I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

i

There is no practical reason to use the swivel on a cnc mill unless you have it mounted to
an angle plate to effect an A or B axis.

My Kurt vise sits on top of a Kurt base that Steve Saling, AKA GarlicDude from A.M.C sent
me a long time ago. I had to insist on paying for the shipping cost just to feel right
about his generosity.

Steve wanted me to tell him when I actually used the swivel feature on my BP. I've used
it about 3 times but when I need it, it is priceless. Same for the swivel vise at work.

The joy of CNC is that you don't need a rotary table or a swivel vise to make
non-orthagonal cuts.

Sounds very nice of Steve and congrats on getting a base. It seems
that all "in the know" agree. I already mounted the vise on the table.

i

On 2010-07-24, Ignoramus8473 wrote:
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

In general -- you are better without it on the CNC machine,
because you can get any angle you want from the g-Codes, and this way
you can be sure that the vise is properly trammed.

If you want a swivel vise -- you want it on a CNC controlled
axis on a rotary table. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ignoramus8473 wrote:

On 2010-07-24, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus8473" wrote in message
...
I have a swivel milling vise. Do I understand it right, as it seems,
that CNC does not care for swiveling and I would be best served taking
the swivel base off?

Usually people go for a rotary table. Then you can "swivel" your work piece
in a controlled repeatable manner. Put a motor on your rotary table and,
"BAM!" 4 axis machining. I can usually clamp most work pieces without one
to get what I want, but it would be nice for a little more consistent tooth
position for cutting some types of gears. If I had a bigger working
envelope I would be really tempted to go 5 axis and put a trunnion table or
a chuck and spindle on top of a rotary table. There are some pockets that
are just a pain to program using just 3 axis.

Bob, I have a Troyke CNC rotary table (no control, just a servo driven
table). It does not seem to work. I have not even started looking it
it, as I want to work on one project at a time. But I want to fix it
soon, if it is really broken, and use as a 4th axis.

I presume you'll use the RT in a vertical orientation? A horizontal RT
is real handy on a manual mill, but not particularly useful on a CNC
where circular interpolation will do the job.

As for a swivel base on the vise, take it off, it is of no benefit on a
CNC mill and only serves to waste an inch of Z height.

On 2010-07-25, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus8473 wrote:
Bob, I have a Troyke CNC rotary table (no control, just a servo driven
table). It does not seem to work. I have not even started looking it
it, as I want to work on one project at a time. But I want to fix it
soon, if it is really broken, and use as a 4th axis.

I presume you'll use the RT in a vertical orientation? A horizontal RT
is real handy on a manual mill, but not particularly useful on a CNC
where circular interpolation will do the job.

Right, the axis of rotation would be parallel to the X axis.

As for a swivel base on the vise, take it off, it is of no benefit on a
CNC mill and only serves to waste an inch of Z height.

Agree 100%.

i