"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 1:35 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have my own version: Wresting the controls out of the hands of my
glider
"instructor" as he was about to stall our Schweitzer 2-33 into a pile of
concrete rubble that looked like a WWII tank trap, from 50 feet, and
having
his hand slip off of the stick as I pushed the nose down -- because he
outweighed me by about 100 pounds.

I was lucky that he sweats. It probably was life and death. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

That was something you wanted to accomplish and made the effort to get
it done.

Luck would be having the "instructor" faint and fall against the
control which nosed the plane down.

Dan

If I was sitting behind him, I might have arranged something that had a
similar result. s8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Yeah I have my definition of luck: Shortly after take off in a small
helicopter, one blade went to a high pitch angle which shook the helicopter
so hard that I couldn't see the instruments. Mainly the rotor tach. Either
the high pitch angle slowed the rotor or my "Fixed Wing" trained hand did
with the result that the controls became non-functional. First it yawed
uncontrollably to the left, then rolled uncontrollably to the left causing
me to change from helicopter pilot to lawn dart passenger. Had this
occurred just a few seconds later, I would have had sufficient altitude to
really make a splash. As it was, I was only about 40' in the air when it
happened. I cannot account for the timing any way but "Luck". BTW people
often asked me if I had to change my underwear. On the contrary, I suffered
from constipation for three days. It may have had something to do with the
stuck seat cushion.
The metal-work side of this story was that a simple fix was made indexing
the pitch horns to the blade grips so that this scenario would not recur.

Stu Fields

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:50:57 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
with a need for
open, if not free, trade in the Ricardo model of comparative advantage.
snip
==========

As the movie dialog states "show me the money."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_M...ous_quotations

This is what is flogged in the standard economic development
texts, but even Ricardo noted when the means of production
[capital] is free to move comparative advantage does not
exist, and only absolute advantage remains. I find it
amazing the number of people who use Ricardo's Theory of
Comparative Advantage as justification for Multilateral
Investment Agreements, when the more transnational
investment there is, the less comparative advantage exists,
especially as this promotes the evasion of tax and other
regulations.

The median American per capita income has been in decline
for at least 30 years when adjusted for inflation, loss of
benefits, and especially for taxes. For a while this could
be offset by having additional adults in the family work,
and/or working longer hours, but this reached its limit
several years ago, and the only other legal recourse was to
increase debt to maintain a material standard of living,
which indeed grew exponentially. The traditional 3rd world
"solutions" of petty crime, tax evasion, and an
informal/underground economy are now booming.
Scan
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/...o-bananas.html
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon...lin_william s
and then
http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/2009/...nk-and-growing
http://www.kingslow-assoc.com/images...Lit_Review.pdf
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/network-for-stu..._of_America%3F
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon...lin_william s


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Stu Fields" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 1:35 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I have my own version: Wresting the controls out of the hands of my
glider
"instructor" as he was about to stall our Schweitzer 2-33 into a pile of
concrete rubble that looked like a WWII tank trap, from 50 feet, and
having
his hand slip off of the stick as I pushed the nose down -- because he
outweighed me by about 100 pounds.

I was lucky that he sweats. It probably was life and death. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

That was something you wanted to accomplish and made the effort to get
it done.

Luck would be having the "instructor" faint and fall against the
control which nosed the plane down.

Dan

If I was sitting behind him, I might have arranged something that had a
similar result. s8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Yeah I have my definition of luck: Shortly after take off in a small
helicopter, one blade went to a high pitch angle which shook the
helicopter so hard that I couldn't see the instruments. Mainly the rotor
tach. Either the high pitch angle slowed the rotor or my "Fixed Wing"
trained hand did with the result that the controls became non-functional.
First it yawed uncontrollably to the left, then rolled uncontrollably to
the left causing me to change from helicopter pilot to lawn dart
passenger. Had this occurred just a few seconds later, I would have had
sufficient altitude to really make a splash. As it was, I was only about
40' in the air when it happened. I cannot account for the timing any way
but "Luck". BTW people often asked me if I had to change my underwear.
On the contrary, I suffered from constipation for three days. It may have
had something to do with the stuck seat cushion.
The metal-work side of this story was that a simple fix was made indexing
the pitch horns to the blade grips so that this scenario would not recur.

Stu Fields

Aack! That sounds like one of the stories my old power instructor would have
told me, when I was 16 and asked him if he'd teach me to fly helicopters.

"Son," he said once. "The difference is that an airplane wants to fly. A
helicopter wants to crash." g

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:50:57 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

That's pretty sketchy but the details would keep us going for a year or two,
and I just had another birthday that reminds me I'd better start making
better use of my time. d8-)


Happy Birthday with a wish for many more to come.

Wes

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:50:57 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
with a need for
open, if not free, trade in the Ricardo model of comparative advantage.
snip
==========

As the movie dialog states "show me the money."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_M...ous_quotations

This is what is flogged in the standard economic development
texts, but even Ricardo noted when the means of production
[capital] is free to move comparative advantage does not
exist, and only absolute advantage remains.

Not quite. I don't intend to get into it, but the comparative advantage
model does indeed work, in a mixed relationship with absolute advantage.
It's not permanent -- on any given product, it may be fleeting. But you'll
find many examples of it, for example, in our industrial trade with China.

I find it
amazing the number of people who use Ricardo's Theory of
Comparative Advantage as justification for Multilateral
Investment Agreements, when the more transnational
investment there is, the less comparative advantage exists,
especially as this promotes the evasion of tax and other
regulations.

I don't think it applies to finance at all. I have to read Krugman on this
point. He's probably the best expert on comparative advantage.


The median American per capita income has been in decline
for at least 30 years when adjusted for inflation, loss of
benefits, and especially for taxes.

Yes on the first two. No on the third. Taxes on individuals in the US are
currently at their lowest point in 54 years.

For a while this could
be offset by having additional adults in the family work,
and/or working longer hours, but this reached its limit
several years ago, and the only other legal recourse was to
increase debt to maintain a material standard of living,
which indeed grew exponentially. The traditional 3rd world
"solutions" of petty crime, tax evasion, and an
informal/underground economy are now booming.
Scan
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/...o-bananas.html
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon...lin_william s
and then
http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/2009/...nk-and-growing
http://www.kingslow-assoc.com/images...Lit_Review.pdf
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/network-for-stu..._of_America%3F
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon...lin_william s


That looks like a lot of reading. Is any of it accurate? g

--
Ed Huntress

"Wes" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:50:57 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

That's pretty sketchy but the details would keep us going for a year or
two,
and I just had another birthday that reminds me I'd better start making
better use of my time. d8-)


Happy Birthday with a wish for many more to come.

Wes

Thanks, Wes. They just sort of run from one to the other these days. 'Ain't
no stopping them.

--
Ed Huntress

On Apr 24, 1:35*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
If you hit the lottery, you can send the money to me so you won't have to
revisit your (mis)understanding of "lucky."
...
Ed Huntress

I don't play the lottery; I studied math and can calculate the odds. I
gamble by taking jobs at high-tech startups where I can affect the
outcome by solving problems.

My father is a good example here. He was a poor Southern farm boy who
went into the cotton mills when the farm failed. While there he took
classes and advanced from retying broken threads to cost accounting.
Knowing all the production details he was good at it, worked his way
up to management partly thanks to Air Corps OCS and eventually was
invited to be the first CFO of a newly formed NH department.
Unfortunately that meant we had to leave the wonderful 1830 brick
house we had restored.

He was 'lucky' enough to discover the advantage of buying and
renovating old houses into apartments in his (our) spare time, and
taught himself, and me, carpentry, wiring and plumbing well enough to
pass inspections.

jsw

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:14:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The median American per capita income has been in decline
for at least 30 years when adjusted for inflation, loss of
benefits, and especially for taxes.

Yes on the first two. No on the third. Taxes on individuals in the US are
currently at their lowest point in 54 years.
========
Why does "Tax Day" keep moving later in the year if the
fraction of income is going down? This *MAY* be true for
Federal taxes, but when state and local income, sales and
real estate taxes are included the total tax take [from
normal people in the normal tax brackets] just keeps going
up. There is also the question of governmental "fees"
rather than taxes. However you slice it, it is more money
taken by the government from the citizens.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Apr 24, 6:54*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
....The fact is, though, that there are much
larger elements of luck in most people's lives than we recognize. They can
make the difference between rich and poor, healthy and sick, happy and sad.
Ed Huntress

I don't disagree, after the war my father almost became a Louisiana
shrimp boat and oil rig outfitter.

The problem here is twisting the meaning of "lucky" to imply
successful people don't really deserve their money as much as some
envious politician does.

jsw

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:14:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

The median American per capita income has been in decline
for at least 30 years when adjusted for inflation, loss of
benefits, and especially for taxes.

Yes on the first two. No on the third. Taxes on individuals in the US are
currently at their lowest point in 54 years.
========
Why does "Tax Day" keep moving later in the year if the
fraction of income is going down?

It doesn't. The trendline is moving earlier:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/386.html

Total taxes -- federal, state, and local, including all types -- are now
lower than they've been since 1956.

This *MAY* be true for
Federal taxes, but when state and local income, sales and
real estate taxes are included the total tax take [from
normal people in the normal tax brackets] just keeps going
up. There is also the question of governmental "fees"
rather than taxes. However you slice it, it is more money
taken by the government from the citizens.

Fees are chickenfeed. Total taxes are part of "Tax Freedom Day."

--
Ed Huntress

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 6:54 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
....The fact is, though, that there are much
larger elements of luck in most people's lives than we recognize. They can
make the difference between rich and poor, healthy and sick, happy and
sad.
Ed Huntress

I don't disagree, after the war my father almost became a Louisiana
shrimp boat and oil rig outfitter.

The problem here is twisting the meaning of "lucky" to imply
successful people don't really deserve their money as much as some
envious politician does.

jsw

Right. It can be used to mislead both ways.

Not to speak for Iggy, but I think his point is that some people have had a
hard run and that a safety net for such people is the mark of a civilized
society. We've buggered it up in the past -- it was welfare abuse that
turned me into a Republican g -- but the idea is valid, IMO.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:49:11 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus31606
scrawled the following:

On 2010-04-24, wrote:
My own experience differs from yours. Can't say that I am fabulously
wealthy, but I worked or went to school pretty much all the time since
I was 16. I did miss something like 6 days of work because of lay
offs. Always saved money and now I am well off. So regardless of how
the world seems to you, there is a large group that has worked hard
and now has a good bit to show for it.

Don't believe me. Then ask Iggy.

Since you mentioned my name, maybe I will make a little comment. I am
not fabulously wealthy either, but I do OK.

Like Dan, I would say that I had some amount of luck, and pretty much
all luck, with two exceptions, came from either working or actuvely
looking for opportunities. I did not win lottery and I never bought
any single stock that made me wealthy. To clarify the stock comments,
I had decent results with investing and outperformed the S&P 500 by
something like 8 points per year, but since I started off without much
money, this was not enough to make me super wealthy.

I had essentially two elements of luck: 1) I received very decent
education in what proved to be a hot area (computers) and 2) I
registered domain algebra.com. Neither of these was done with any
foresight, and obviously I had to work on getting my education, and on
developing algebra.com into a major source of income for me, but
still, the element of luck is undeniable. I did not inherit any money
and came here with just $2,800 of what I saved, but on the other hand,
education was kind of like inherited wealth in many respects.

Don mentions luck as in "I worked and had luck". I sort of agree, as I
said, but there is one more kind of luck.

I would define it as a "negative luck", which is absence of bad
luck. In my case, I did not have a major body illness, mental illness,
I did not have an accident that was my fault and resulted in a huge
liability, etc.

I like these quotes:

"What helps luck is a habit of watching for opportunities, of
having a patient, but restless mind, of sacrificing one's
ease or vanity, of uniting a love of detail to foresight, and
of passing through hard times bravely and cheerfully."
-- Charles Victor Cherbuliez
and

"The harder I work, the luckier I get." --Samuel Goldwyn

--
....in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

On 2010-04-24, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 6:54 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
....The fact is, though, that there are much
larger elements of luck in most people's lives than we recognize. They can
make the difference between rich and poor, healthy and sick, happy and
sad.
Ed Huntress

I don't disagree, after the war my father almost became a Louisiana
shrimp boat and oil rig outfitter.

The problem here is twisting the meaning of "lucky" to imply
successful people don't really deserve their money as much as some
envious politician does.

jsw

Right. It can be used to mislead both ways.

Not to speak for Iggy, but I think his point is that some people have had a
hard run and that a safety net for such people is the mark of a civilized
society. We've buggered it up in the past -- it was welfare abuse that
turned me into a Republican g -- but the idea is valid, IMO.

Well, imagine a hard working, self reliant guy who works hard, saves
money, has a little nest egg saved. Then in his middle age, he has a
car accident that exceeds his insurance and has all the money taken
from him. Then a year later, he gets sick and is unable to work.

I do think that he fully deserves a social safety net.

Furthermore, something that was mentioned before, but if set up
properly, a minimal social safety net can encourage risk taking and
entrepreneurship. I am sure that for many, going off the employer's
health insurance policy is a effective barrier to becoming self
employed.

A point that too much safety net can be a disincentive to work, is
well taken, but it is an argument over the emount of it that should be
given.

i

"Ignoramus31606" wrote in message
...
On 2010-04-24, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 6:54 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
....The fact is, though, that there are much
larger elements of luck in most people's lives than we recognize. They
can
make the difference between rich and poor, healthy and sick, happy and
sad.
Ed Huntress

I don't disagree, after the war my father almost became a Louisiana
shrimp boat and oil rig outfitter.

The problem here is twisting the meaning of "lucky" to imply
successful people don't really deserve their money as much as some
envious politician does.

jsw

Right. It can be used to mislead both ways.

Not to speak for Iggy, but I think his point is that some people have had
a
hard run and that a safety net for such people is the mark of a civilized
society. We've buggered it up in the past -- it was welfare abuse that
turned me into a Republican g -- but the idea is valid, IMO.

Well, imagine a hard working, self reliant guy who works hard, saves
money, has a little nest egg saved. Then in his middle age, he has a
car accident that exceeds his insurance and has all the money taken
from him. Then a year later, he gets sick and is unable to work.

I do think that he fully deserves a social safety net.

Furthermore, something that was mentioned before, but if set up
properly, a minimal social safety net can encourage risk taking and
entrepreneurship. I am sure that for many, going off the employer's
health insurance policy is a effective barrier to becoming self
employed.

There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance situation
in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential startups.

I had to think hard about the risk when I left the Fortune 500 nest back in
the early '80s. It was scary. Then I couldn't get insurance at *any* price,
but it's not much better today.


A point that too much safety net can be a disincentive to work, is
well taken, but it is an argument over the emount of it that should be
given.

i

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus31606" wrote in
message ...

There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance
situation in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential
startups.

It isn't just startups, Ed.
I saw a story about a college kid diagnosed with a disease that was
expensive to treat. IIRC, he was a grad student and pretty exceptional.
In the end, he dropped out of school and went to work for one of the
midwest's big sporting goods or hardware chains at a pretty modest wage as a
full time employee in order to have coverage that would pay for his
treatment.

He's still got his student loans and will probably get work suitable to his
education and training but he's otherwise dead in the water.
That sort of thing seems a terrible waste to me.

--
John R. Carroll

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus31606" wrote in
message ...

There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance
situation in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential
startups.

It isn't just startups, Ed.
I saw a story about a college kid diagnosed with a disease that was
expensive to treat. IIRC, he was a grad student and pretty exceptional.
In the end, he dropped out of school and went to work for one of the
midwest's big sporting goods or hardware chains at a pretty modest wage as
a
full time employee in order to have coverage that would pay for his
treatment.

He's still got his student loans and will probably get work suitable to
his
education and training but he's otherwise dead in the water.
That sort of thing seems a terrible waste to me.

It is, any way you look at it. As health care reform develops and unfolds,
it should put an end to that waste, and to the burden faced by many US
employers involved in international trade. Many countries completely unload
that burden from employers -- although it does show up in taxes of various
types. But the direct addition to manufacturing costs from health care
insurance is much less among several of our important trading partners.

--
Ed Huntress

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:57:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:
snip
Far too many people believe that low paying jobs should be
eliminated.
snip
Another example of micro-optimization.

Most of the people that advocate this are also among the loudest
complainers about high taxes and welfare queens, as well as the
breakdown in "law-n-order."

By eliminating the jobs for the less skilled/motivated, we are
simply creating a permanent under class (and liberal voting
block), and as Grandma observed, "Idle hands are the devil's
workshop." GOOD THINKING....




Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

You said it better than I could. Liberals like to feel that
everybody is trainable to do high-paying jobs but it just isn't so.
Many years ago, I had an old guy that swept the floors and moved
material around. He took great pride in how clean he kept the plant
and enjoyed doing it. He couldn't add and subtract or read and write
but had pride and satisfaction. The floors haven't been as clean
since he died. I can't afford to hire a replacement at $15/hr. plus
bennies. And, the union won't accept a lower pay.

That's really something Tom. Perhaps you shouldn't abuse your old guys. It
seems they die off on you.
When did minimum wage hit $15.00 per hour? Is that something unique to
Cleveland or is it a State thing?
LMAO
How many sides does your mouth have?
I've seen three so far. Are there more?


--
John R. Carroll



Is it that you can't read or that you can't comprehend? I'll use smaller
word for you next time. Dumbass!

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:51:27 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:57:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:
snip
Far too many people believe that low paying jobs should be eliminated.
snip
Another example of micro-optimization.

Most of the people that advocate this are also among the loudest
complainers about high taxes and welfare queens, as well as the
breakdown in "law-n-order."

By eliminating the jobs for the less skilled/motivated, we are
simply creating a permanent under class (and liberal voting
block), and as Grandma observed, "Idle hands are the devil's
workshop." GOOD THINKING....

You said it better than I could. Liberals like to feel that everybody is
trainable to do high-paying jobs but it just isn't so. Many years ago, I
had an old guy that swept the floors and moved material around. He took
great pride in how clean he kept the plant and enjoyed doing it. He
couldn't add and subtract or read and write but had pride and
satisfaction.
The floors haven't been as clean since he died. I can't afford to hire a
replacement at $15/hr. plus bennies. And, the union won't accept a lower
pay.

Ohmigod, you're a UNION shop? thud

What if you wrote to the union and asked them if you could hire a guy
off the street to clean your floors and move material for $10/hr?
Might they write back "Hell no!"? Now what would happen if somehow,
those letters found their way into a journalist's hands?

Sorry, I meant FOX journalist's hands. Nobody else'd publish that
story which clearly showed that a union would rather have people out
of work than making normal wages.

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Unions would rather shut down plants than show any weakness. Unions sure
are champions of the working class, aren't they?

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills

Buerste wrote:

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills




I'm just kind of curious here.

Why do you call people names like that?

Do you think this is decent behavior?


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:46:18 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:51:27 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:57:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:
snip
Far too many people believe that low paying jobs should be eliminated.
snip
Another example of micro-optimization.

Most of the people that advocate this are also among the loudest
complainers about high taxes and welfare queens, as well as the
breakdown in "law-n-order."

By eliminating the jobs for the less skilled/motivated, we are
simply creating a permanent under class (and liberal voting
block), and as Grandma observed, "Idle hands are the devil's
workshop." GOOD THINKING....

You said it better than I could. Liberals like to feel that everybody is
trainable to do high-paying jobs but it just isn't so. Many years ago, I
had an old guy that swept the floors and moved material around. He took
great pride in how clean he kept the plant and enjoyed doing it. He
couldn't add and subtract or read and write but had pride and
satisfaction.
The floors haven't been as clean since he died. I can't afford to hire a
replacement at $15/hr. plus bennies. And, the union won't accept a lower
pay.

Ohmigod, you're a UNION shop? thud

What if you wrote to the union and asked them if you could hire a guy
off the street to clean your floors and move material for $10/hr?
Might they write back "Hell no!"? Now what would happen if somehow,
those letters found their way into a journalist's hands?

Sorry, I meant FOX journalist's hands. Nobody else'd publish that
story which clearly showed that a union would rather have people out
of work than making normal wages.

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

Unions would rather shut down plants than show any weakness. Unions sure
are champions of the working class, aren't they?

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills

And Id still like to have my Milwaukee 9" grinder back that he has.


Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:00:49 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Buerste wrote:

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills




I'm just kind of curious here.

Why do you call people names like that?

Do you think this is decent behavior?


Perhaps not..but he has had dealings with the man.

Like I have.


Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

"cavelamb" wrote in message
news
Buerste wrote:

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a
stupid libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have
internet access? I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all
his money to a get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole.
Another libtard cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's
ass, he's counting on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet,
I like to bitch-slap him every once in a while but his crap is getting
old and repetitive, time for the looney bin for him. Why can't these
douchebaggers get a job and actually contribute to society? Oh that's
right, they lack marketable skills


I'm just kind of curious here.

Why do you call people names like that?

Do you think this is decent behavior?


--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/


I always respond in kind, whatever the tone.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
snip
And Id still like to have my Milwaukee 9" grinder back that he has.


Gunner


Hmmmm.

On Apr 24, 11:40*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Ignoramus31606" wrote in message
...
There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance situation
in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential startups.
...
A point that too much safety net can be a disincentive to work, is
well taken, but it is an argument over the emount of it that should be
given.
i

Do other nations have fair, effective and affordable systems to copy?
I haven't seen much good written about Britain's NHS, for instance,
but maybe that only reflects a few malcontents. My previous doctor was
a disillusioned refugee from Canada's system.

jsw

On Apr 24, 11:32*pm, Ignoramus31606 ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.
31606.invalid wrote:

Well, imagine a hard working, self reliant guy who works hard, saves
money, has a little nest egg saved. Then in his middle age, he has a
car accident that exceeds his insurance and has all the money taken
from him. Then a year later, he gets sick and is unable to work.

I do think that he fully deserves a social safety net.


i

Now under the new healthcare bill, insurance companies will not be
able to deny coverage. So does that mean he can have a bare bones
medical insurance policy while he is in good health, and switch to one
of the gold plated policies when he finds he has a serious expensive
illness?

If he can, then I would expect a race to the bottom among the gold
plated insurance plans. Each trying to offer a plan that a person
with large medical costs will not choose.


Dan

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:32:51 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message

--snip--

Is it that you can't read or that you can't comprehend? I'll use smaller
word for you next time. Dumbass!

Life's too short to read Demonrat trollbait.

Plonk him and forget him, Tawm.

--
....in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:46:18 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
Ohmigod, you're a UNION shop? thud

Unions would rather shut down plants than show any weakness. Unions sure
are champions of the working class, aren't they?

Look at Carrol's drivel,

I don't have to. I plonked that guy several years ago, and
(thankfully) very few people quote him.


he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills

There's always Soylent Green, eh? Maybe that's how The O is going to
control the population via "healthcare"

Solution: In Agent, it's Ctrl-K/Enter, and he's out of your life. I
don't know the killfile key combo for Outleak Express. Sorry. (Maybe
Tools/Message Rules/News and create a filter?)

--
....in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:46:18 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
Ohmigod, you're a UNION shop? thud

Unions would rather shut down plants than show any weakness. Unions sure
are champions of the working class, aren't they?

Look at Carrol's drivel,

I don't have to. I plonked that guy several years ago, and
(thankfully) very few people quote him.


he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a stupid
libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have internet
access?
I thought he was banned from the library. He lost all his money to a
get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the dole. Another libtard
cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue up Obammy's ass, he's
counting
on more free money. I haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap
him every once in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time
for the looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack marketable
skills

There's always Soylent Green, eh? Maybe that's how The O is going to
control the population via "healthcare"

Solution: In Agent, it's Ctrl-K/Enter, and he's out of your life. I
don't know the killfile key combo for Outleak Express. Sorry. (Maybe
Tools/Message Rules/News and create a filter?)

--
...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should
not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work.
-- John Ruskin

MESSAGE-BLOCK SENDER- YES

Buerste wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
snip
And Id still like to have my Milwaukee 9" grinder back that he has.


Gunner


Hmmmm.


He can have it back anytime he wants to pick it up - as agreed.
He'd better get with the program though.
I'm going to want a storage fee eventually.

--
John R. Carroll

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ignoramus31606" wrote in
message ...

There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance
situation in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential
startups.

It isn't just startups, Ed.
I saw a story about a college kid diagnosed with a disease that was
expensive to treat. IIRC, he was a grad student and pretty
exceptional. In the end, he dropped out of school and went to work
for one of the midwest's big sporting goods or hardware chains at a
pretty modest wage as a
full time employee in order to have coverage that would pay for his
treatment.

He's still got his student loans and will probably get work suitable
to his
education and training but he's otherwise dead in the water.
That sort of thing seems a terrible waste to me.

It is, any way you look at it. As health care reform develops and
unfolds, it should put an end to that waste, and to the burden faced
by many US employers involved in international trade. Many countries
completely unload that burden from employers -- although it does show
up in taxes of various types. But the direct addition to
manufacturing costs from health care insurance is much less among
several of our important trading partners.

One of the real benefits of health-care reform will be to startups and small
business.
They'll be on a more equal footing when it comes to hiring and the benefit
of taxed based support means you don't end up crushed by costs as your
profits swing up and down.

90 percent of the jobs in America are created by business's less than five
years old.
On that basis alone, health-care reform is a jobs bill and we are eventually
going to have a single payer system anyway.
It's unavoidable.

--
John R. Carroll

Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 03:57:42 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:
snip
Far too many people believe that low paying jobs should be
eliminated.
snip
Another example of micro-optimization.

Most of the people that advocate this are also among the loudest
complainers about high taxes and welfare queens, as well as the
breakdown in "law-n-order."

By eliminating the jobs for the less skilled/motivated, we are
simply creating a permanent under class (and liberal voting
block), and as Grandma observed, "Idle hands are the devil's
workshop." GOOD THINKING....




Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

You said it better than I could. Liberals like to feel that
everybody is trainable to do high-paying jobs but it just isn't so.
Many years ago, I had an old guy that swept the floors and moved
material around. He took great pride in how clean he kept the plant
and enjoyed doing it. He couldn't add and subtract or read and
write but had pride and satisfaction. The floors haven't been as
clean since he died. I can't afford to hire a replacement at
$15/hr. plus bennies. And, the union won't accept a lower pay.

That's really something Tom. Perhaps you shouldn't abuse your old
guys. It seems they die off on you.
When did minimum wage hit $15.00 per hour? Is that something unique
to Cleveland or is it a State thing?
LMAO
How many sides does your mouth have?
I've seen three so far. Are there more?


--
John R. Carroll



Is it that you can't read or that you can't comprehend? I'll use
smaller word for you next time. Dumbass!

Well, you said initially that a higher minimum wage made it impossible for
you to replace a minimum wage guy.
Then you said that you couldn't afford "$15/hr. plus bennies" so I was
wondering why you are either talking out of both sides of your mouth again,
or think minimum wage is "$15/hr. plus bennies"?

There are literally thousands of minimum wage manufacturing jobs available
here in California Tom but they pay minimum wage, not "$15/hr. plus
bennies".

--
John R. Carroll

cavelamb wrote:
Buerste wrote:

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a
stupid libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have
internet access? I thought he was banned from the library. He lost
all his money to a get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on the
dole. Another libtard cheese-checker! No wonder he has his tongue
up Obammy's ass, he's counting on more free money. I haven't
plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap him every once in a
while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time for the
looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack
marketable skills




I'm just kind of curious here.

Why do you call people names like that?

Bipolar.


Do you think this is decent behavior?

I don't think he cares. Tom's here for the excercise.

--
John R. Carroll

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:00:49 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Buerste wrote:

Look at Carrol's drivel, he thinks min. wage is $15.00/hr. What a
stupid libtard! But, I'm being redundant. How does he still have
internet access? I thought he was banned from the library. He lost
all his money to a get-rich-quick scam and now is most likely on
the dole. Another libtard cheese-checker! No wonder he has his
tongue up Obammy's ass, he's counting on more free money. I
haven't plonked him as of yet, I like to bitch-slap him every once
in a while but his crap is getting old and repetitive, time for the
looney bin for him. Why can't these douchebaggers get a job and
actually contribute to society? Oh that's right, they lack
marketable skills




I'm just kind of curious here.

Why do you call people names like that?

Do you think this is decent behavior?


Perhaps not..but he has had dealings with the man.

No he hasn't.


Like I have.

LOL
I had your "dealings" picked up and hauled away as scrap a month ago.


--
John R. Carroll

wrote:
On Apr 24, 11:32 pm, Ignoramus31606 ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.
31606.invalid wrote:

Well, imagine a hard working, self reliant guy who works hard, saves
money, has a little nest egg saved. Then in his middle age, he has a
car accident that exceeds his insurance and has all the money taken
from him. Then a year later, he gets sick and is unable to work.

I do think that he fully deserves a social safety net.


i

Now under the new healthcare bill, insurance companies will not be
able to deny coverage. So does that mean he can have a bare bones
medical insurance policy while he is in good health, and switch to one
of the gold plated policies when he finds he has a serious expensive
illness?

The only thing addressed under the health-care legislation just passed is
basic coverage.
People are on their own for anything more.


If he can, then I would expect a race to the bottom among the gold
plated insurance plans. Each trying to offer a plan that a person
with large medical costs will not choose.

Premiums will reflect whatever insurer's want them too.
They'll either have customers or not.

--
John R. Carroll

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Well, imagine a hard working, self reliant guy who works hard, saves
money, has a little nest egg saved. Then in his middle age, he has a
car accident that exceeds his insurance and has all the money taken
from him. Then a year later, he gets sick and is unable to work.

I do think that he fully deserves a social safety net.

i

Now under the new healthcare bill, insurance companies will not be
able to deny coverage. So does that mean he can have a bare bones
medical insurance policy while he is in good health, and switch to one
of the gold plated policies when he finds he has a serious expensive
illness?

If he can, then I would expect a race to the bottom among the gold
plated insurance plans. Each trying to offer a plan that a person
with large medical costs will not choose.

Dan
===========
This is a likely scenario up until the time the people get
fed up with health insurance "bait-n-switch" and a
government run single payer plan is implemented.

The directors, officers and executives of the health
insurance companies will scream like a barrel of mashed cats
when this occurs, but brought [are bringing] this on
themselves (and everybody else).
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63M2YM20100423
http://www.businessinsurance.com/art...WS01/100429975


The people that will lose their investment are the stock
holders of health insurance companies, for profit hospitals
and HMOs when "single payer" is implemented. Look for the
corporate "leadership," mutual funds, etc. to unload this
worthless paper on the widows and orphans just the way they
did the GM stock and bonds.


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On 2010-04-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
I like these quotes:

"What helps luck is a habit of watching for opportunities, of
having a patient, but restless mind, of sacrificing one's
ease or vanity, of uniting a love of detail to foresight, and
of passing through hard times bravely and cheerfully."

I love this quote. The choice of words is perfect, like a sharp Schick
shaving razor.

i

On 4/24/2010 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Apr 24, 3:11 pm, wrote:

and mostly about economics, IQs and productivity.



What it boils down to is that in a capitalist system like we have you
have a small group of winners who are fabulously wealthy and you have a
large group who has only a little to show for their efforts. They get by
and that's about it, and the rest of the people have virtually nothing
and can't even find jobs to pay for a normal living. There used to be a
large middle class but that was a short term fluke which ended when
Reagan got elected. Which is why I prefer getting rich the traditional
way in America, by inheritance.

Hawke

My own experience differs from yours. Can't say that I am fabulously
wealthy, but I worked or went to school pretty much all the time since
I was 16. I did miss something like 6 days of work because of lay
offs. Always saved money and now I am well off. So regardless of how
the world seems to you, there is a large group that has worked hard
and now has a good bit to show for it.

Don't believe me. Then ask Iggy.


Dan



That's one man's experience. What I am talking about is the statistics
of the whole. It's no more impossible for someone to do what you did
than it is for someone to start with zero and wind up a billionaire.
That's what Bill Gates did. But that is not a true picture of reality.
Want to know how it is for most people? When they retire after 40 years
of work or so about 98% can't get by without government benefits. For
those who are working full time the average household income is around
50K or less and that is for two full time workers, which works out to
two people making less than 15 dollars an hour and with few benefits. So
that is the state of things. Also remember I'm not talking about what
happens when there is an economic downturn, which happens with great
regularity. I'm glad that things worked out for you. My complaint is
that it doesn't for the vast majority of Americans even when they played
by the rules. When the bulk of the workers in a country have little to
show for it after years of full time work it seems to me that isn't a
system that I would be bragging about.

Hawke

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 11:40 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Ignoramus31606" wrote in message
...
There is some evidence that the lousy individual health insurance
situation
in this country has been a barrier for MANY potential startups.
...
A point that too much safety net can be a disincentive to work, is
well taken, but it is an argument over the emount of it that should be
given.
i

Do other nations have fair, effective and affordable systems to copy?
I haven't seen much good written about Britain's NHS, for instance,
but maybe that only reflects a few malcontents. My previous doctor was
a disillusioned refugee from Canada's system.

jsw

This is just an opinion, but I think there are things to learn from several
of the systems in place. Here's hoping we learn well.

--
Ed Huntress

On Apr 25, 1:32*pm, Hawke wrote:


That's one man's experience.

Want to know how it is for most people? When they retire after 40 years
of work or so about 98% can't get by without government benefits.
My complaint is
that it doesn't for the vast majority of Americans even when they played
by the rules. When the bulk of the workers in a country have little to
show for it after years of full time work it seems to me that isn't a
system that I would be bragging about.

Hawke

Actually it is the experience of most of the people that I know. Now
I have to admit most of the people that I know are reasonably
intelligent. And there are a lot of people that don't make out very
well.

But I would sure like to know where you get your statistics that 98%
can not get by without government benefits. It is hard to believe
that I am in the top 2%.

Dan

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 03:53:13 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
snip
And Id still like to have my Milwaukee 9" grinder back that he has.


Gunner


Hmmmm.

Shrug..I loaned it to him about 3 yrs ago.

Still havent gotten it back.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost