"John R. Carroll" wrote:

If you are presenting the facts correctly, she's covered by whatever her
State calls MediCal - that's what is is in CA.
The federal portion is paid directly to the State through Medicare/Medicaid,
neither of which are funded with property tax money.


What is the state portion?

Wes

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

What is the state portion?


It varies by state but about 12.5 percent.
The real problem, or one of them biggest, is the way the huge pool of
uninsured recieve treatment.
It isn't Medicaid per se.


Thanks John. I did a bit of googling before I saw your response. Before I actually
looked, I'd have thought state portion was much higher. I learned something tonight.


There is a lot of innovation by regional medical centers right now in areas
that have large numbers of uninsured people.
The big players in the San Diego area, for example, are funding treatment
clinics. What you pay at one of those clinics depends on a number of factors
but it's very low. The hospitals give directly and also raise money in order
to keep the case load on their emergency rooms down and at a reasonable
cost. It works and something like this is part of the bill now before
Congress.

Medical care seems to have a non-linear cost vs results relationship.

Some insulin, syringes, and **** strips to check for sugar is fairly cheap and can ward
off having to deal with a going blind diabetic in crisis. I'm using that example because
I kept my dog alive for 16 extra months using fairly inexpensive medicine comprising the
above.

A certain minimal level of care that isn't coming from the emergincy room could save a lot
of money becase at the end, those that can pay, pay for all of it.

The Chips program is one, that while I hate further expansion of government, is a bit hard
for me to be against on the moral level. After all, the kids can't pick their parents.

On another note, but somehow related, part of winning the hearts and minds of every place
we have had our military engaged in a conflict is the Corpsman treating the locals. A lot
of that is pretty inexpensive medicine also that goes a long way. In some cases it helps
to make up for colateral damage that we try to avoid at a huge cost.

Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the wrong way to go. Bit
by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long run.


Wes

On 3/16/2010 3:27 PM, Wes wrote:
wrote:

You're a pretty naive guy and not well informed about how the government
works either. You demonstrate this by your thinking you are seeing
something new and different in how the health care bill is taking shape.
I have news for you. This is how legislation works in this country. Why
do you think they refer to it as "sausage making"? You really think the
things going on are so much different from the things that the
republicans did when they were in the majority?

I am not naive about how deals get cut. I remember not too long ago the nuclear option
and the gang of 14 on supreme court nominations. I did not support the nuclear option
since we all know you may be on top in politics but soon you will be on bottom.

Remember the line item veto where Congress tried to give the President a freer hand at
trimming the budget? President Clinton would have been the first President to get to use
it and he wasn't a Republican.

The Republicans got critisided for holding the Medicare vote open for 3 hours.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021302342.html
Five hours for Sherrod Brown


They used
reconcilliation on numerous occasions to get things passed against the
will of the Democrats. They did the same kind of deals and payoffs and
arm twisting to get their legislation passed. LBJ is legendary for the
lengths he went through to make congressmen vote for his legislation.
This process is no worse than it has been in the past. In fact, it's the
same as it was in the past. The difference is that you didn't know how
it really works and because the republicans are saying it's oh so
terrible now you think it really is. Well, it's not. This is just what
it takes to get a bill passed when the opposition against it is digging
in their heels. You need to stop believing everything you hear coming
out of the mouths of republicans. It's all either a gross exaggeration
or else an outright lie. They happen to be working for the insurance
industry. Try to keep that in mind when you hear republicans whining
about how awful the Democrats are. They would do exactly the same thing
in their place.

I'm going to disagree with you. The dems are taking congress to places it hasn't been
before ensuring the race down hill will continue.

Wes



The only reason you are saying that is because that is what the
republican opposition is saying. What's going on is both sides are
fighting with everything they have at their disposal. There is no middle
ground on this issue. One side wins and the other loses. It's an all out
battle. Unfortunately, it's one the republicans can't win. The Democrats
have the advantage of being in the majority, which gives them the power
to use all kinds of parliamentary tricks to get what they want. It's the
same no matter who is in power. The republicans have filibustered over
110 times this congress. That's a doubling of the most ever used in
congress and it's being used on things never filibustered before. So
this works both ways. The fact is the Democrats have the majorities in
both houses and the white house. That is supposed to mean something,
specifically that the people gave the Democrats the right and power to
implement their programs and it's the minority republicans who are
thwarting the will of the people. It's the republicans who are trying to
run things despite being the party in the minority. In my book they are
just sore losers. They had the power for eight years and did what they
wanted. Now the shoe is on the other foot and they won't play fair. So
if they get burned by the Democrats, so be it. They have the right to
pass the legislation they were elected to pass.

Hawke

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the
wrong way to go. Bit
by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long
run.


"And one more thing: employment-based health insurance, which is already
regulated in a way that mostly prevents this kind of abuse, is unraveling.
Less than half of workers at small businesses were covered last year, down
from 58 percent a decade ago. This means that in the absence of reform, an
ever-growing number of Americans will be at the mercy of the likes of
Assurant Health."
"So what's the answer? Americans overwhelmingly favor guaranteeing coverage
to those with pre-existing conditions - but you can't do that without
pursuing broad-based reform. To make insurance affordable, you have to keep
currently healthy people in the risk pool, which means requiring that
everyone or almost everyone buy coverage. You can't do that without
financial aid to lower-income Americans so that they can pay the premiums.
So you end up with a tripartite policy: elimination of medical
discrimination, mandated coverage, and premium subsidies."

"Or to put it another way, you end up with something like the health care
plan Mitt Romney introduced in Massachusetts in 2006, and the very similar
plan the House either will or won't pass in the next few days. Comprehensive
reform is the only way forward."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/op...19krugman.html

I don't know what makes you think the bill that's about to become law isn't
just the beginning Wes. We'll certainly see a lot more over the next few
years and you shouldn't be surprised to see a public option and then single
payer at some point in the future.

JC

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:57:29 -0500, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the wrong way to go. Bit
by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long run.

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:57:29 -0500, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the
wrong way to go. Bit
by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long
run.

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

You ought to get out more Larry.
http://www.vistacommunityclinic.org/Locations.html

You'd look less the fool.

JC

On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:51:31 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:42:38 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip
I'm coming off two weeks of Vancomycin and one of IV Cipro today. I've lost
twenty percent of my body weight and the effects of that are problematic. My
posts to this thread lead to a 4 hour nappy G
snip

My best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery. Naps are
good.


Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

As long as you wake up....

Mr Carroll didnt have a lot of body weight to begin with. I hope and
pray he does well and recovers fully.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

You ought to get out more Larry.
http://www.vistacommunityclinic.org/Locations.html

You'd look less the fool.

JC


I'm afraid that getting out wouldn't be of much help to him in that dept.

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

You ought to get out more Larry.
http://www.vistacommunityclinic.org/Locations.html

You'd look less the fool.

JC


I'm afraid that getting out wouldn't be of much help to him in that dept.

I've seen few people that were as anxious for some sort of revolution but a
lot that were his sort of coward when it came to putting his money where his
mouth is. For all of his bluster, he'd probably break down and cry like a
baby for his mommy were he ever actually between a rock and a hard place.

Anyway, The clinic network in Vista will treat uninsured and unemployed
people for a flat $30.00, at least to the extent that they are able.
That is actually quite a lot of procedures as the clinics are very well
equiped and funded by private donations and funds from both Tri Cities
Hospital and Scripps Memorial. I think a lot of the doctors are either on
staff or have priveledges at one or the other of the hospitals.

JC

On 3/19/2010 2:09 PM, John R. Carroll wrote:
wrote in message
...

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

You ought to get out more Larry.
http://www.vistacommunityclinic.org/Locations.html

You'd look less the fool.

JC


I'm afraid that getting out wouldn't be of much help to him in that dept.

I've seen few people that were as anxious for some sort of revolution but a
lot that were his sort of coward when it came to putting his money where his
mouth is. For all of his bluster, he'd probably break down and cry like a
baby for his mommy were he ever actually between a rock and a hard place.

Anyway, The clinic network in Vista will treat uninsured and unemployed
people for a flat $30.00, at least to the extent that they are able.
That is actually quite a lot of procedures as the clinics are very well
equiped and funded by private donations and funds from both Tri Cities
Hospital and Scripps Memorial. I think a lot of the doctors are either on
staff or have priveledges at one or the other of the hospitals.

JC



That just goes to show you what can be done to provide health care for
people without it costing a fortune even the most minor procedures. It's
clearly time to change what we have been doing. Looks like it is finally
going to happen this weekend too, and the republicans are just sick I
tell you, just sick, at the prospect of the current system coming to an
end. I, on the other hand, am beaming.


Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 3/19/2010 2:09 PM, John R. Carroll wrote:
wrote in message
...

That just goes to show you what can be done to provide health care for
people without it costing a fortune even the most minor procedures. It's
clearly time to change what we have been doing. Looks like it is finally
going to happen this weekend too, and the republicans are just sick I tell
you, just sick, at the prospect of the current system coming to an end. I,
on the other hand, am beaming.


"This is the largest tax bill in history," the Republican leader fumed. The
reform "is unjust, unworkable, stupidly drafted and wastefully financed."

And that wasn't all. This "cruel hoax," he said, this "folly" of "bungling
and waste," compared poorly to the "much less expensive" and "practical
measures" favored by the Republicans.

"We must repeal," the GOP leader argued. "The Republican Party is pledged to
do this."

That was Republican presidential nominee Alf Landon in a September 1936
campaign speech. He based his bid for the White House on repealing Social
Security.

Bad call, Alf. Republicans lost that presidential election in a landslide.
By the time they finally regained the White House -- 16 years later -- their
nominee, Dwight Eisenhower, had abandoned the party's repeal platform.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031902636.html

This is probably the single biggest reason that the health-care bill will
become law. I know it's the reason Republican's would like to kill it. It is
going to be a terrible year (2010) for incumbents but both parties will bear
that cross - and deservedly so.



JC