I have been looking at some of the auto reversing tapping heads and I've
viewed some of the videos on you tube. This is an impressive looking piece
of equipment. Kind of like the line take up guide on a bait casting reel.

Does it work the way it looks? You just lower down to a certain level and
it punches down to its max reach and then automatically reverse and
retracts.

Do you need a special tap for these? Do generic square drive taps work with
these? Is it like a mill spindle where you need a bunch of different size
collets and a closer?

On 2010-01-09, Bob La Londe wrote:
I have been looking at some of the auto reversing tapping heads and I've
viewed some of the videos on you tube. This is an impressive looking piece
of equipment. Kind of like the line take up guide on a bait casting reel.

Does it work the way it looks? You just lower down to a certain level and
it punches down to its max reach and then automatically reverse and
retracts.

Do you need a special tap for these? Do generic square drive taps work with
these? Is it like a mill spindle where you need a bunch of different size
collets and a closer?

Gun taps (spiral) work better. Different heads require different
collets. I have a head that takes a bunch of collets. The newer heads
take rubberflex collets.

i

On Jan 8, 6:23*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been looking at some of the auto reversing tapping heads and I've
viewed some of the videos on you tube. *This is an impressive looking piece
of equipment. *Kind of like the line take up guide on a bait casting reel.

Does it work the way it looks? *You just lower down to a certain level and
it punches down to its max reach and then automatically reverse and
retracts.

Do you need a special tap for these? *Do generic square drive taps work with
these? *Is it like a mill spindle where you need a bunch of different size
collets and a closer?

I have one I got for production work that never materialized, so I
have only tested it.

It works with an internal clutch activated by either pressure down on
the tap, so it turns clockwise, then, after tapping the hole, upward
pressure reverses the rotation of the tap until it comes out of the
tapped hole. Finally, with neither up or down pressure, the rotation
stops. Mine is manually operated on either a drill press or a mill,
used as a drill press.

There are different sides collets to hold a regular square headed tap,
but the collet is nested in rubber so the tap stays in the collet. A
particular size of tapping head is good for a specific range of tap
sizes. As the tap size goes up, do does the power required to run the
tap, so the whole machine increases in size.

Paul

On Jan 8, 6:23*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been looking at some of the auto reversing tapping heads and I've
viewed some of the videos on you tube. *This is an impressive looking piece
of equipment. *Kind of like the line take up guide on a bait casting reel.

Does it work the way it looks? *You just lower down to a certain level and
it punches down to its max reach and then automatically reverse and
retracts.

Do you need a special tap for these? *Do generic square drive taps work with
these? *Is it like a mill spindle where you need a bunch of different size
collets and a closer?

I forgot to mention the tapping head has a tail assembly that fits a
vertical rod mounted on the drill press that keeps the tapping head
from rotating with the tap.

Paul

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several and we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've used
bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole. Use the
right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every other hole or
so.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several and we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've used
bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole. Use the
right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every other hole or
so.


Ditto's on the tapmatic. We use them hard also. Anyone have a clue where I can get a
snail (retract spring) for a Burgmaster 1D?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote in
:

steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several and
we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've used
bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole. Use
the right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every other
hole or so.


Ditto's on the tapmatic. We use them hard also. Anyone have a clue
where I can get a snail (retract spring) for a Burgmaster 1D?

For a home shop with a smallish mill (Clausing 8520), could someone in
the know help recommend a specific Tapmatic model?. I've been thinking
about getting one for a while, but I'm unclear on the practical
differences between the Rx, TC/DC & X models. I'd be looking at a size
30, and all models seem to be about the same length. The TC/DC has an
"adjustable self-feed", which the others don't, but I have no idea what
that means. The TC/DC also has "adjustable depth control for blind
holes", which sounds useful.

Should I be looking for a TC/DC, or are the others just as good? I'm
looking for maximum flexibility & idiot-proofness.

Thanks!

Doug White

On 2010-01-10, Doug White wrote:
Wes wrote in
:

steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several and

[ ... ]

For a home shop with a smallish mill (Clausing 8520), could someone in
the know help recommend a specific Tapmatic model?. I've been thinking
about getting one for a while, but I'm unclear on the practical
differences between the Rx, TC/DC & X models. I'd be looking at a size
30, and all models seem to be about the same length. The TC/DC has an
"adjustable self-feed", which the others don't, but I have no idea what
that means. The TC/DC also has "adjustable depth control for blind
holes", which sounds useful.

Should I be looking for a TC/DC, or are the others just as good? I'm
looking for maximum flexibility & idiot-proofness.

O.K. I would have to dig up the listing of what is what to be
sure. (Or -- go downstairs to a far too cold shop far too late in the
day. :-)

But the features on the two which I have (one a 30 size and one
a 50 for larger taps) have the following differences which I consider
important:

1) The smaller one (I think a 30X, but I am not sure) has a collar
at the top which sets a torque limit. The advice for using it
is to start with it set to the lowest torque, and put a brand
new tap in the head, and try tapping the workpiece material and
size which you are using. Keep increasing the torque setting
until it goes through with no trouble -- and adjust it just a
tiny bit higher.

Now -- keep tapping using these settings until it starts to slip
again. At this point, the thing to do is to remove and discard
the tap which you are using, and install another brand new one.

This, obviously, is for production, and is the best way to avoid
broken taps.

2) The larger one does not have the torque limit, but has an
adjustable collar on the tap chuck which sets how far the chuck
has to travel before the dog clutch releases and the tap is free
from the spindle. This is important when you are tapping
shallow blind holes. You need to have the tap head set so the
dog clutch will release from a starting point where the tap just
touches the workpiece (so it *can* self start) and yet can
release before touching the bottom of the hole. You need to set
the drill press or mill spindle stop so the dog clutch will
release before the tap jams against the bottom of a blind hole.
And you need to adjust the collar to start the tap reliably.
Normally, there is quite a bit of free feed before the dog
clutch disengages and stops the tap from turning. This is fine
with through holes, but is a problem with blind holes. Note
that this larger one does not have the torque limit, but it
handles taps from 1/4" (IIRC) up to 1/2", which are harder to
break in the drill press. (It would still be nice to have that
torque limit to set for the tap which I am using. :-)

Now -- the "adjustable self feed" may be for tapping in a CNC
mill which does not have spindle thread feed capability, so once it
starts to cut, it pulls the tap down as needed, and your CNC counts the
turns of the spindle and then stops and reverses it. (This may not have
a reversing gear inside it the way the two which I have are set up,
depending on the CNC to reverse the spindle instead.

Essentially -- you need to download and read the manuals for
each to see what it is intended to work with. Mine are for manual Mills
and drill presses. Others only work on CNC mills, or something like an
automatic screw machine (lathe), so you need to get the right one for
what *you* will be using it with. Unless you have the CNC mill with the
right spindle programming, you probably don't want the "adjustable self
feed" version. And you certainly don't want a "rigid tap holder" (which
is probably a lot less expensive).

And -- remember that the 30 series can only go up to 1/4" (or
some only to #10 screws) -- and the torque limit is assuming thread
cutting taps, not thread forming taps which need more torque, so you may
not be able to use them up to the full size of the tapping head's
claimed range.)

But -- my larger one was really nice when I had about 40 1-4/20
holes to tap in 1/4" thick mild steel. The main trick was modifying the
drillpress table to hold the length of the workpiece. I did that with
two 2x4s secured from below by lag screws through the slots in the
table. And I was always careful to clamp it down with a Kant-Twist for
each new hole -- and position the stock so if the Kant-Twist slipped,
the column would keep the workpiece from rotating.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2010-01-10, Doug White wrote:
snip
For a home shop with a smallish mill (Clausing 8520), could someone
in the know help recommend a specific Tapmatic model?. I've been
thinking about getting one for a while, but I'm unclear on the
practical differences between the Rx, TC/DC & X models. I'd be
looking at a size 30, and all models seem to be about the same
length. The TC/DC has an "adjustable self-feed", which the others
don't, but I have no idea what that means. The TC/DC also has
"adjustable depth control for blind holes", which sounds useful.

Should I be looking for a TC/DC, or are the others just as good? I'm
looking for maximum flexibility & idiot-proofness.

O.K. I would have to dig up the listing of what is what to be
sure. (Or -- go downstairs to a far too cold shop far too late in the
day. :-)

No rush, and I can sympathize. My shop is already getting too chilly
even for brief forays when it's not worth turning on the heat. The temp
in the Boston area isn't supposed get above freezing until Friday.

But the features on the two which I have (one a 30 size and one
a 50 for larger taps) have the following differences which I consider
important:

1) The smaller one (I think a 30X, but I am not sure) has a collar
at the top which sets a torque limit. The advice for using it
is to start with it set to the lowest torque, and put a brand
new tap in the head, and try tapping the workpiece material and
size which you are using. Keep increasing the torque setting
until it goes through with no trouble -- and adjust it just a
tiny bit higher.

Now -- keep tapping using these settings until it starts to slip
again. At this point, the thing to do is to remove and discard
the tap which you are using, and install another brand new one.

This, obviously, is for production, and is the best way to avoid
broken taps.

This sounds fine, except for blind holes. Do you have to rely on a
depth stop, fast reflexes, or just not doing them?

2) The larger one does not have the torque limit, but has an
adjustable collar on the tap chuck which sets how far the chuck
has to travel before the dog clutch releases and the tap is free
from the spindle. This is important when you are tapping
shallow blind holes. You need to have the tap head set so the
dog clutch will release from a starting point where the tap just
touches the workpiece (so it *can* self start) and yet can
release before touching the bottom of the hole. You need to set
the drill press or mill spindle stop so the dog clutch will
release before the tap jams against the bottom of a blind hole.
And you need to adjust the collar to start the tap reliably.
Normally, there is quite a bit of free feed before the dog
clutch disengages and stops the tap from turning. This is fine
with through holes, but is a problem with blind holes. Note
that this larger one does not have the torque limit, but it
handles taps from 1/4" (IIRC) up to 1/2", which are harder to
break in the drill press. (It would still be nice to have that
torque limit to set for the tap which I am using. :-)

Hmm. I thought they all had a torque limit. I'll be curious to here
which model is which.

Now -- the "adjustable self feed" may be for tapping in a CNC
mill which does not have spindle thread feed capability, so once it
starts to cut, it pulls the tap down as needed, and your CNC counts
the turns of the spindle and then stops and reverses it. (This may
not have a reversing gear inside it the way the two which I have are
set up, depending on the CNC to reverse the spindle instead.

The Tapmatic website has stuff broken into two areas, one for CNC & one
for manual stuff. The TC/DC is firmly encamped under manual tapping.

Essentially -- you need to download and read the manuals for
each to see what it is intended to work with. Mine are for manual
Mills and drill presses. Others only work on CNC mills, or something
like an automatic screw machine (lathe), so you need to get the right
one for what *you* will be using it with. Unless you have the CNC
mill with the right spindle programming, you probably don't want the
"adjustable self feed" version. And you certainly don't want a "rigid
tap holder" (which is probably a lot less expensive).

And -- remember that the 30 series can only go up to 1/4" (or
some only to #10 screws) -- and the torque limit is assuming thread
cutting taps, not thread forming taps which need more torque, so you
may not be able to use them up to the full size of the tapping head's
claimed range.)

The size 30 would be fine for my needs. I rarely go above 1/4-20, and
I'm very unlikely to have enough larger holes to warrant getting a head
that won't do 4-40 & 2-56. Eventually, I might get both sizes, but I
should definitely start with a #30. They are limited to #10 for thread
forming, which is fine for my needs.

But -- my larger one was really nice when I had about 40 1-4/20
holes to tap in 1/4" thick mild steel. The main trick was modifying
the drillpress table to hold the length of the workpiece. I did that
with two 2x4s secured from below by lag screws through the slots in
the table. And I was always careful to clamp it down with a
Kant-Twist for each new hole -- and position the stock so if the
Kant-Twist slipped, the column would keep the workpiece from rotating.

I assume you used the bigger one because A) you had it, and B) you knew
it would be trivial for it. Given that the size 30 is rated for 1/4-20,
did you think it wouldn't actually handle it? I've been assuming that
their capacity specs are accurate.

Thanks for the info.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
For a home shop with a smallish mill (Clausing 8520), could someone in
the know help recommend a specific Tapmatic model?. I've been thinking
about getting one for a while, but I'm unclear on the practical
(SNIP)
--FWIW a mill isn't necessary and if you've got a floor model
drillpress you'll have much more room for tall parts. I'd go with the #30,
which is good for taps up to 1/4" shank dia. Don't waste the money for the
larger #50 unless you're planning on making some serious dough from the work
it can do..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Wes wrote:
steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several and we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've used
bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole. Use the
right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every other hole or
so.


Ditto's on the tapmatic. We use them hard also. Anyone have a clue where I can get a
snail (retract spring) for a Burgmaster 1D?

Wes
--


I prefer Procunier over Tapmatic:

http://tinyurl.com/ydl7ubj

Much better feel than a Tapmatic

--


Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58

Garlicdude wrote:

I prefer Procunier over Tapmatic:

http://tinyurl.com/ydl7ubj

Much better feel than a Tapmatic

Agreed, vastly better feel. I tapped a couple hundred 0-80 holes, .240
deep in 304SS using roll taps. Hole was .250 deep at full dia. This was
at my last job, and I brought in my own head. My boss was aghast at what
I wanted to do, citing the cost of a 10" conflat flange. But I didn't
break a single one and saved a day's labor over hand tapping the way
they'd been doing it.

Just don't -ever- bottom a tap with a Procunier...

Though in fact, I have done so with larger taps and was able to react
quick enough to not break the tap. In fact, have never broken a tap with
a Procunier.


Jon

Jon Anderson wrote:
Garlicdude wrote:

I prefer Procunier over Tapmatic:

http://tinyurl.com/ydl7ubj

Much better feel than a Tapmatic

Agreed, vastly better feel. I tapped a couple hundred 0-80 holes, .240
deep in 304SS using roll taps. Hole was .250 deep at full dia. This was
at my last job, and I brought in my own head. My boss was aghast at what
I wanted to do, citing the cost of a 10" conflat flange. But I didn't
break a single one and saved a day's labor over hand tapping the way
they'd been doing it.

Just don't -ever- bottom a tap with a Procunier...


Jon, I've never had a problem tapping blind holes with a Procunier. As long as
you have a good depth stop it shouldn't be a problem.

Best,
Steve


--


Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58

Garlicdude wrote in
t:

Wes wrote:
steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several
and we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've
used bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole.
Use the right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every
other hole or so.


Ditto's on the tapmatic. We use them hard also. Anyone have a clue
where I can get a snail (retract spring) for a Burgmaster 1D?

Wes
--


I prefer Procunier over Tapmatic:

http://tinyurl.com/ydl7ubj

Much better feel than a Tapmatic

That may be, but they are larger (an issue with my small mill), and they
don't have a model that can do small taps (2-56 or 4-40) and still go up
to 1/4-20 in mild steel.

For my needs, Tapmatic still looks like the best fit.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
Garlicdude wrote in
t:

Wes wrote:
steamer wrote:

--They totally rock. I recommend Tapmatic; we've got several
and we
beat 'em to death: very reliable. I run mostly plug taps but I've
used bottom taps too; just be careful setting depth in a blind hole.
Use the right lubricant for the tap and slop it on often; i.e. every
other hole or so.

Ditto's on the tapmatic. We use them hard also. Anyone have a clue
where I can get a snail (retract spring) for a Burgmaster 1D?

Wes
--

I prefer Procunier over Tapmatic:

http://tinyurl.com/ydl7ubj

Much better feel than a Tapmatic

That may be, but they are larger (an issue with my small mill), and they
don't have a model that can do small taps (2-56 or 4-40) and still go up
to 1/4-20 in mild steel.

For my needs, Tapmatic still looks like the best fit.

Doug White


Doug, Here is a pdf of the smaller Procunier tapping heads:

http://www.rockford-ettco.com/Portal...Pg%2029%29.pdf

I've tapped lots of 1/4-20 holes in 1018 with the 11000 head.

I had Tapmatic for several years and they were always a hassle especially in
blind holes. I switched to Procunier and haven't had any of the problems that I
did with the Tapmatics.

Best,
Steve

--


Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58