pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Snag" on or about
Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:30:31 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:08:12
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking
the following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats
happening around our country.
Cant be happening. Did the One promise Hope and Change, and
that we'd all be drinking that free bubble-up, eating that
rainbow stew, getting our mortgages paid, and our cars paid for.

What? You mean with all this bull**** - there isn't a pony?

well shucky darns.
-
pyotr filipivich

This might be the perfect time to talk about - Santa Clause???

Might as well. It's too late for the Sanity Clause.

There ain'ta no Santa Clause.

pyotr

I'll bet you didn't get any for Christmas, didja!

Started my day with a bang , an' it's only gotten better since ...

"Ladies, did you wake up grumpy this morning? Or did you let him
sleep?"

Many years ago, I and my sweetie managed to swing a week together
between quarters. She tended to grumble that I was far too perky in
the morning. "What can I say, I've slept till I'm rested, I woke up
next you, what's not to like?" Of course the next week, when I'm
having to drag out for classes, that is when I held the soliloquy
about the difference between how I am on vacation, and the rest of
term.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Mine teaches , and is off til after the first . Lotta good that does me , I
still gotta work .


--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 22:13:16 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:01:09 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:59:50 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
news:dbmdnTTND4tILa_WnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganew s.com...
jeff wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:12:18 -0800, "azotic" wrote:

BREAKING NEWS: Arrow drivers wake to nightmare before Christmas
Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 - On Tuesday, as many as 1,400 truck drivers
for Arrow Trucking Co., based out of Tulsa, OK, have been
frantically trying to figure out their next moves as the company
unexpectedly announced it was "suspending all operations" that day.

Truckers started calling in to the Owner-Operator Independent
Drivers
Association and Land Line after they were awakened with phone calls
from their dispatchers alerting them to the grim news that the
company was shutting its doors and that their instructions were to
turn in their trucks to the nearest Freightliner dealership.


http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R...ow-drivers.htm

Best Regards

Tom.

That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats happening
around our country.

Same thing happened five years ago (?) with Consolidated.
Did that frighten you?


--
John R. Carroll



The scary part, is sometimes I think the Healthcare Bill is to keep
people
from looking at the lack of Congressional action on the meltdown. They
say
the Recession is ending. BS! Unemployment numbers still very high,
something like 319,000 people moved over to special extended
unemployment
just last week. They have given Wall Street bunches of money, and now
they
are giving it back after they used it to scam investors out of even more
money, and want no regulation of their business, until the next bailout
is
needed. We need to vote out all the incumbents. We may throw out a
good
one or 2 in the process, but is worth the error. The government has
added
about a 1/2 million in debt per family this year and not much has been
improved. The housing improvement is driven by the Tax Credit, and the
Fed
buying all new mortgages. What happens in 2 months when the Fed stops
buying the mortgages. And the interest rate starts rising again. How
many
foreclosures then? We have an administration saying we will cut
emissions.
While China and India are laughing all the way to more production. What
the
hell was Arnold, The Govenator, doing at the Climate summit. The
economy
in
California is in chaos. The Legislature has been overspending for years
and
committing spending into the future. They have the districts
Gerrymandered
so 90% get re-elected. We are screwed, or at least our kids and
grandkids
are.



Bill, are you aware of the new commission that will be redrawing the
political boundaries in 2011? I just saw something about it today.
They are looking for citizens to participate. The make up will be
five Democrats, five Republicans and four "no political party". This
was brought about by a referendum a couple of years ago. It's taking
forever to get anything done but at least SOMETHING will get done.

Jim

I may apply.
http://wedrawthelines.ca.gov/



What the hell. The worst they can do is say "Thank you but your
services are not required." If it's done on the up and up (why do I
doubt that?) it will be a good thing. Who knows, maybe the
Republicans can gain control of the legislature and stop a lot of this
excessive taxing and spending that is going on. We can only hope.

Jim

The Republicans will not get control, and they seem to spend almost as much
as the Dems. But we may get a more centrist legislature. For years the
California legislature has been much more left than the state as an average.



That's kinda what I was referring to, Bill. The Legislature is so far
left that the center looks like the right as it is now. The biggest
problem, I think, is that the far left places such as San Fransicko
and Los Angeles are more heavily represented than the rest of the
state and, thus, carry more power. Something has GOT to change or
this state is going to go further down the toilet than, frankly, it
already is.

Jim

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:00:16 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


"azotic" wrote in message
...
BREAKING NEWS: Arrow drivers wake to nightmare before Christmas
Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 - On Tuesday, as many as 1,400 truck drivers for
Arrow Trucking Co., based out of Tulsa, OK, have been frantically trying
to
figure out their next moves as the company unexpectedly announced it was
"suspending all operations" that day.

Truckers started calling in to the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers
Association and Land Line after they were awakened with phone calls from
their dispatchers alerting them to the grim news that the company was
shutting its doors and that their instructions were to turn in their
trucks
to the nearest Freightliner dealership.


http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R...ow-drivers.htm

Best Regards

Tom.



As someone that tried to make a living as a truck driver this does not
really surprise me.

I think if I was the driver under load in this situation and did not have
enough fuel to make it to my delivery point, I would contact either the
shipper or the consignee or the dealer that wants his truck back and offer
to deliver the goods if they would pay for the fuel to get it there and make
it to the dealership to turn in the truck. If none of those folks would
pony up the coin, then I would feel no obligation to do anything other than
inform them where I parked their truck.

The reason the trucking business is in such a sorry state is that they allow
others to set the rates they charge to haul the freight and then try to make
the shortfall up in volume. That plan is always destined for failure.

If this was your truck, that would be the proper thing to do - the
customer consignee really wants their merchandise to arrive, and if
the truck is dropped at a dealer it will be greatly delayed if not
"disappeared" by "falling off the loading dock" - BUT.

When the company went under their liability insurance probably did,
too. If you don't park the truck as instructed and try going to the
destination without insurance, and get in a wreck... It's your ass.

And as we all know, "No good deed goes unpunished."

-- Bruce --

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:18:01 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:00:16 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:
"azotic" wrote in message
...

BREAKING NEWS: Arrow drivers wake to nightmare before Christmas
Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 - On Tuesday, as many as 1,400 truck drivers for
Arrow Trucking Co., based out of Tulsa, OK, have been frantically trying
to figure out their next moves as the company unexpectedly announced
it was"suspending all operations" that day.

Truckers started calling in to the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers
Association and Land Line after they were awakened with phone calls from
their dispatchers alerting them to the grim news that the company was
shutting its doors and that their instructions were to turn in their
trucks to the nearest Freightliner dealership.

http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R...ow-drivers.htm

As someone that tried to make a living as a truck driver this does not
really surprise me.

I think if I was the driver under load in this situation and did not have
enough fuel to make it to my delivery point, I would contact either the
shipper or the consignee or the dealer that wants his truck back and offer
to deliver the goods if they would pay for the fuel to get it there and make
it to the dealership to turn in the truck. If none of those folks would
pony up the coin, then I would feel no obligation to do anything other than
inform them where I parked their truck.

The reason the trucking business is in such a sorry state is that they allow
others to set the rates they charge to haul the freight and then try to make
the shortfall up in volume. That plan is always destined for failure.


Or take out a lien on the truck and cargo, for expenses and wages.

I wonder what a newer Freightliner and trailer loaded with Christmas
Stuff is worth?

If they owed you a lot of money, even just a couple of paychecks,
that would be a good idea because you would still be "in possession"
of the asset - BUT you better check with a lawyer first. They could
easily claim you had stolen their truck and were stealing the cargo to
ransom it off to the consignee and probably make it stick, those laws
are arcane at best.

The cargo belongs to the shipper or the consignee, depending on the
FOB location in the paperwork - if it's FOB Destination the shipper
still owns the goods IIRC.

The freight company truck and trailer belong to the leasing company
- the freight company is only leasing (renting) them.

-- Bruce --

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Sat, 26 Dec 2009 02:29:22
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:48:54
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:08:12
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats happening
around our country.
Cant be happening. Did the One promise Hope and Change, and that we'd
all be drinking that free bubble-up, eating that rainbow stew, getting
our mortgages paid, and our cars paid for.

What? You mean with all this bull**** - there isn't a pony?

well shucky darns.

This might be the perfect time to talk about - Santa Clause???

Might as well. It's too late for the Sanity Clause.

There ain'ta no Santa Clause.

I'll bet you didn't get any for Christmas, didja!

What would he do with sanity? ;-)

Convene a Kangaroo court and have a trial by Joey.


In other words, a typical day on usenet?

It could be worse. I could be fighting extradition from Koala
Lumpur. That's Trial by Wombat, no less.


pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:57:43 -0800, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Sat, 26 Dec 2009 02:29:22
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:48:54
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:08:12
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats happening
around our country.
Cant be happening. Did the One promise Hope and Change, and that we'd
all be drinking that free bubble-up, eating that rainbow stew, getting
our mortgages paid, and our cars paid for.

What? You mean with all this bull**** - there isn't a pony?

well shucky darns.

This might be the perfect time to talk about - Santa Clause???

Might as well. It's too late for the Sanity Clause.

There ain'ta no Santa Clause.

I'll bet you didn't get any for Christmas, didja!

What would he do with sanity? ;-)

Convene a Kangaroo court and have a trial by Joey.


In other words, a typical day on usenet?

It could be worse. I could be fighting extradition from Koala
Lumpur. That's Trial by Wombat, no less.

I had a Combat Wombat chasing after my Corvair convertible down a dirt
track once, but a friend was riding it.

Go Hodaka!


--
REMEMBER: The sooner you fall behind,
the more time you'll have to catch up!

Let the Record show that "Snag" on or about
Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:02:50 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Snag" on or about
Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:30:31 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:08:12
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking
the following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats
happening around our country.
Cant be happening. Did the One promise Hope and Change, and
that we'd all be drinking that free bubble-up, eating that
rainbow stew, getting our mortgages paid, and our cars paid for.

What? You mean with all this bull**** - there isn't a pony?

well shucky darns.
-
pyotr filipivich

This might be the perfect time to talk about - Santa Clause???

Might as well. It's too late for the Sanity Clause.

There ain'ta no Santa Clause.

pyotr

I'll bet you didn't get any for Christmas, didja!

Started my day with a bang , an' it's only gotten better since ...

"Ladies, did you wake up grumpy this morning? Or did you let him
sleep?"

Many years ago, I and my sweetie managed to swing a week together
between quarters. She tended to grumble that I was far too perky in
the morning. "What can I say, I've slept till I'm rested, I woke up
next you, what's not to like?" Of course the next week, when I'm
having to drag out for classes, that is when I held the soliloquy
about the difference between how I am on vacation, and the rest of
term.
Mine teaches , and is off til after the first . Lotta good that does me , I
still gotta work .

Time to consider cross training ...


I recall reading of a guy who's college buddies thought him a real
goof, never cutting classes to go surfing (this was California in the
60's). He graduated and became a teacher. So while they were working
50 weeks out of the year, he had his summers free to hit the beach and
the waves. Cowabunga!

So who's the goof now?

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Sat, 26 Dec 2009 02:29:22
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:48:54
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Michael A. Terrell"
on or about Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:08:12
-0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the
following:
cavelamb wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats happening
around our country.
Cant be happening. Did the One promise Hope and Change, and that we'd
all be drinking that free bubble-up, eating that rainbow stew, getting
our mortgages paid, and our cars paid for.

What? You mean with all this bull**** - there isn't a pony?

well shucky darns.

This might be the perfect time to talk about - Santa Clause???

Might as well. It's too late for the Sanity Clause.

There ain'ta no Santa Clause.

I'll bet you didn't get any for Christmas, didja!

What would he do with sanity? ;-)

Convene a Kangaroo court and have a trial by Joey.


In other words, a typical day on usenet?

It could be worse. I could be fighting extradition from Koala
Lumpur. That's Trial by Wombat, no less.


Keep it up and the pun police will be kicking down your door, to
charge you with attempted punnery.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 22:13:16 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:01:09 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:59:50 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
news:dbmdnTTND4tILa_WnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@gigane ws.com...
jeff wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:12:18 -0800, "azotic"
wrote:

BREAKING NEWS: Arrow drivers wake to nightmare before Christmas
Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 - On Tuesday, as many as 1,400 truck
drivers
for Arrow Trucking Co., based out of Tulsa, OK, have been
frantically trying to figure out their next moves as the company
unexpectedly announced it was "suspending all operations" that
day.

Truckers started calling in to the Owner-Operator Independent
Drivers
Association and Land Line after they were awakened with phone
calls
from their dispatchers alerting them to the grim news that the
company was shutting its doors and that their instructions were to
turn in their trucks to the nearest Freightliner dealership.


http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R...ow-drivers.htm

Best Regards

Tom.

That just isn't right... Pretty scary that this is whats
happening
around our country.

Same thing happened five years ago (?) with Consolidated.
Did that frighten you?


--
John R. Carroll



The scary part, is sometimes I think the Healthcare Bill is to keep
people
from looking at the lack of Congressional action on the meltdown.
They
say
the Recession is ending. BS! Unemployment numbers still very high,
something like 319,000 people moved over to special extended
unemployment
just last week. They have given Wall Street bunches of money, and now
they
are giving it back after they used it to scam investors out of even
more
money, and want no regulation of their business, until the next
bailout
is
needed. We need to vote out all the incumbents. We may throw out a
good
one or 2 in the process, but is worth the error. The government has
added
about a 1/2 million in debt per family this year and not much has been
improved. The housing improvement is driven by the Tax Credit, and
the
Fed
buying all new mortgages. What happens in 2 months when the Fed stops
buying the mortgages. And the interest rate starts rising again. How
many
foreclosures then? We have an administration saying we will cut
emissions.
While China and India are laughing all the way to more production.
What
the
hell was Arnold, The Govenator, doing at the Climate summit. The
economy
in
California is in chaos. The Legislature has been overspending for
years
and
committing spending into the future. They have the districts
Gerrymandered
so 90% get re-elected. We are screwed, or at least our kids and
grandkids
are.



Bill, are you aware of the new commission that will be redrawing the
political boundaries in 2011? I just saw something about it today.
They are looking for citizens to participate. The make up will be
five Democrats, five Republicans and four "no political party". This
was brought about by a referendum a couple of years ago. It's taking
forever to get anything done but at least SOMETHING will get done.

Jim

I may apply.
http://wedrawthelines.ca.gov/



What the hell. The worst they can do is say "Thank you but your
services are not required." If it's done on the up and up (why do I
doubt that?) it will be a good thing. Who knows, maybe the
Republicans can gain control of the legislature and stop a lot of this
excessive taxing and spending that is going on. We can only hope.

Jim

The Republicans will not get control, and they seem to spend almost as
much
as the Dems. But we may get a more centrist legislature. For years the
California legislature has been much more left than the state as an
average.



That's kinda what I was referring to, Bill. The Legislature is so far
left that the center looks like the right as it is now. The biggest
problem, I think, is that the far left places such as San Fransicko
and Los Angeles are more heavily represented than the rest of the
state and, thus, carry more power. Something has GOT to change or
this state is going to go further down the toilet than, frankly, it
already is.

Jim

Whatever you do don't send any more of those "co... Insert Nixon's favorite
insult here ...ckers" over here.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:12:18 -0800, "azotic"
wrote:

BREAKING NEWS: Arrow drivers wake to nightmare before Christmas
Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 - On Tuesday, as many as 1,400 truck drivers for
Arrow Trucking Co., based out of Tulsa, OK, have been frantically trying to
figure out their next moves as the company unexpectedly announced it was
"suspending all operations" that day.

Truckers started calling in to the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers
Association and Land Line after they were awakened with phone calls from
their dispatchers alerting them to the grim news that the company was
shutting its doors and that their instructions were to turn in their trucks
to the nearest Freightliner dealership.

http://www.landlinemag.com/Special_R...ow-drivers.htm

Best Regards

Tom.

===================
More info on the Arrow Trucking fiasco.

If business leaders don't want to be treated like kids and
crooks, why do they keep acting like kids and crooks?

Is it time to create a new criminal charge "reckless management"
as a parallel to "reckless driving." Just as you are not allowed
to operate a motor vehicle in a careless or reckless manner on
the public roads, should you be allowed to operate a business in
a careless or reckless manner?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/a...078&rss_lnk=11
snip
Poor decision-making
At the center of the cyclone and, some say, one of the causes of
Arrow's collapse, was Doug Pielsticker's inexperience, poor
decision-making, casual work ethic and extravagant lifestyle.

Arrow employees who struggled with family expenses during the
past few years were struck by the contrast of Pielsticker, 41,
driving British Bentley and Italian Maserati cars to work.
snip
Gift of a Ducati
In April, about the same time the company began running up unpaid
bills and drivers began noticing the company was not repairing
equipment, Pielsticker received an Italian racing motorcycle as
an anniversary present from his wife, according to his Facebook
page.
snip
===============

Very insightful comment about another trucking company on the
edge:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=akW2fq12ZKOA
snip
No so-called less-than-truckload company -- one that hauls goods
for more than one customer in the same trailer -- has survived
bankruptcy in the last 30 years, according to the Teamsters, the
union that says it represents about 30,000 YRC employees.
snip


Unka George

(George McDuffee)

The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs) from IL to
TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i

That was likely all margin to them - not having full loads and
the lift under a pallet on the truck.

The charge is by square foot or weight.

I shipped two pallets that could not be bottom stack but tops ok -
and they were several thousand pounds each. It was $550 as I recall.
Another truck line bid 750-1000.

Martin

Ignoramus7943 wrote:
I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs) from IL to
TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:42:39 -0600, Ignoramus7943
wrote:

I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs) from IL to
TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i
================
I don't know if this is still the case, but in many past trucking
company bankruptcies, attorneys for the creditors and/or court
have been able to go back several years and collect additional
freight charges from the shippers when the low rates were never
officially registered/ published, under the doctrine of
fraudulent conveyance.

Some higher volume shippers have had to pay hundreds of thousands
of dollars in additional freight charges, the difference between
what they paid and the "official"/registered/published rate.

Ed or John -- do you know if this is still the case?


Unka George

(George McDuffee)

The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:42:39 -0600, Ignoramus7943
wrote:

I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs) from IL
to TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i
================
I don't know if this is still the case, but in many past trucking
company bankruptcies, attorneys for the creditors and/or court
have been able to go back several years and collect additional
freight charges from the shippers when the low rates were never
officially registered/ published, under the doctrine of
fraudulent conveyance.

Some higher volume shippers have had to pay hundreds of thousands
of dollars in additional freight charges, the difference between
what they paid and the "official"/registered/published rate.

Ed or John -- do you know if this is still the case?

There really isn't a time bar but 18 months is typically observed unless
there is provable collusion.
That is one of the difficulties in dealing with folks that are knwn in
advance to be insolvent.
You can end up on the line for the entire amount owed creditors or the tax
authorities because of the Tort.


--
John R. Carroll

On 2010-01-04, John R. Carroll wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:42:39 -0600, Ignoramus7943
wrote:

I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs) from IL
to TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i
================
I don't know if this is still the case, but in many past trucking
company bankruptcies, attorneys for the creditors and/or court
have been able to go back several years and collect additional
freight charges from the shippers when the low rates were never
officially registered/ published, under the doctrine of
fraudulent conveyance.

Some higher volume shippers have had to pay hundreds of thousands
of dollars in additional freight charges, the difference between
what they paid and the "official"/registered/published rate.

Ed or John -- do you know if this is still the case?

There really isn't a time bar but 18 months is typically observed unless
there is provable collusion.
That is one of the difficulties in dealing with folks that are knwn in
advance to be insolvent.
You can end up on the line for the entire amount owed creditors or the tax
authorities because of the Tort.

Maybe I will get a $65,989,254.32 bill due to this...

i

Ignoramus7943 wrote:
On 2010-01-04, John R. Carroll wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:42:39 -0600, Ignoramus7943
wrote:

I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly
surprising. I shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight
350+ lbs) from IL to TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i
================
I don't know if this is still the case, but in many past trucking
company bankruptcies, attorneys for the creditors and/or court
have been able to go back several years and collect additional
freight charges from the shippers when the low rates were never
officially registered/ published, under the doctrine of
fraudulent conveyance.

Some higher volume shippers have had to pay hundreds of thousands
of dollars in additional freight charges, the difference between
what they paid and the "official"/registered/published rate.

Ed or John -- do you know if this is still the case?

There really isn't a time bar but 18 months is typically observed
unless there is provable collusion.
That is one of the difficulties in dealing with folks that are knwn
in advance to be insolvent.
You can end up on the line for the entire amount owed creditors or
the tax authorities because of the Tort.

Maybe I will get a $65,989,254.32 bill due to this...

LOL

Be sure and post that if it happens.
You'd have had to have been reselling Arrow's services to have any liability
under the circumstances George inquired about.

Happy New Year Ig and hopefully 2010 will be the year America turns the page
on what has been a sorry chapter in an otherwise decent book.


--
John R. Carroll

Did they charge extra, since you shipped the boy, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus7943" wrote in
message
...
I shipped several items via Arrow. One was particularly
surprising. I
shipped a walk behind electric pallet lift (weight 350+ lbs)
from IL to
TX, with liftgate pickup, for just $250.

Here it is:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Forklift/

I was wondering how they were making money. Now I know.

i