I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.

Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


A stealth safe. Just don't forget where you put it. ;-)

Seriously, it takes a lot of work to make it difficult to secure a
safe, without building a building over it. Look at the ATMs being
knocked out of buildings by ramming them with a car, or some earlier
models that they could hook a cable from a wrecker to, and rip it out of
the building.

A floor safe, set in a lot of concrete and under a heavy piece of
furniture is the most secure, and the hardest to use. The harder a safe
is to use, the less likely it is to be used. It happens all the time.
'It takes too long to open the safe', 'Its in a hard to reach place'.
that leads to things being left out, 'till the next time I need to open
the safe'.

What good is a gun, in a safe?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Ignoramus10294 wrote:
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

A safe is a good thing, to focus the efforts of a thief.
You know your house better than anyone else, so you
can figure out how to secure your real valuables.

http://tipnut.com/hiding-valuables-s...eryday-things/

--Winston

On 2009-07-09, Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


Stealth is a good thing, but is not a substitute for a strong
safe. Many burglars know exactly where the valuables are, especially
when it comes to jewelry. Think about, say, hiring a painter to paint
the house and telling his criminal friends where the valuables are.

Hiding cash is a little easier than, say, hiding jewelry.

i

Ignoramus10294 wrote:

I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:

Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.

But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

i

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach
that safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the
aid of some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


A stealth safe. Just don't forget where you put it. ;-)

Seriously, it takes a lot of work to make it difficult to secure a
safe, without building a building over it. Look at the ATMs being
knocked out of buildings by ramming them with a car, or some earlier
models that they could hook a cable from a wrecker to, and rip it out of
the building.

A floor safe, set in a lot of concrete and under a heavy piece of
furniture is the most secure, and the hardest to use. The harder a safe
is to use, the less likely it is to be used. It happens all the time.
'It takes too long to open the safe', 'Its in a hard to reach place'.
that leads to things being left out, 'till the next time I need to open
the safe'.

What good is a gun, in a safe?

If it's a cool vintage gun that you shoot once a year -- lots.

If it's your protection against home invasion* -- not much.

* I've never suffered a home invasion. No one in my family has suffered
a home invasion. The only person I know who suffered a home invasion ran
with a seriously weird crowd. I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are (a) too paranoid, (b) hanging with the
wrong people, or (c) living in the wrong part of the world. (a) can be
taken care of with medication, (b) can be taken care of by changing your
friends, and (c) can be taken care of by changing the part of the world
that you live in, or living in a different part of the world.

But what do I know.

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:41:15 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are ... (b) hanging with the
wrong people

Does usenet count? g

--
Ned Simmons

On 2009-07-09, Tim Wescott wrote:
* I've never suffered a home invasion. No one in my family has suffered
a home invasion. The only person I know who suffered a home invasion ran
with a seriously weird crowd. I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are (a) too paranoid, (b) hanging with the
wrong people, or (c) living in the wrong part of the world. (a) can be
taken care of with medication, (b) can be taken care of by changing your
friends, and (c) can be taken care of by changing the part of the world
that you live in, or living in a different part of the world.

I have a friend who lives in my town. A house on his street was broken
into by Gypsies, and they instantly took jewelry and cash (and nothing
else). Looks like they knew where that stuff was, as in, someone told
them or they did a "home improvement estimate" some time prior to the
burglary. Maybe the wife told her fortune teller where her jewelry
was, under one pretense or another.

I would not say that ahome invasion of impossible, but I have to
balance the dangers and inconveniences of having guns easily
available, in a house with children, and a need for guns in the
unlikely event of a home invasion.

i

On Jul 9, 6:45*am, Ignoramus10294 ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.
10294.invalid wrote:
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Consider two safes. One, a cheap one, in rather plain site, with crap
jewelry, so any home invasion will be able to not open the safe, but
be able to remove it without much trouble. The real safe is as others
have described, hidden in an undisclosed location and very securely
fastened to your house foundation.

My brother recently built a house with a hidden access to a rather
large space behind a bath tub. Trying to retrofit a safe might be
difficult, but if you ever think of remodeling your home, use that
opportunity to add your safe.

On the other hand, when we lived in the Seattle area and had a safe
added to our business office, the owner of the safe company told of a
recent sale and delivery where the home owner had a hole cut in the
roof and the main floor so a crane could move the safe to the
basement. This might be an option for you!

Paul

On 2009-07-09, KD7HB wrote:
On Jul 9, 6:45?am, Ignoramus10294 ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.
10294.invalid wrote:
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Consider two safes. One, a cheap one, in rather plain site, with crap
jewelry, so any home invasion will be able to not open the safe, but
be able to remove it without much trouble. The real safe is as others
have described, hidden in an undisclosed location and very securely
fastened to your house foundation.

I like this idea.

i

My brother recently built a house with a hidden access to a rather
large space behind a bath tub. Trying to retrofit a safe might be
difficult, but if you ever think of remodeling your home, use that
opportunity to add your safe.

On the other hand, when we lived in the Seattle area and had a safe
added to our business office, the owner of the safe company told of a
recent sale and delivery where the home owner had a hole cut in the
roof and the main floor so a crane could move the safe to the
basement. This might be an option for you!

Paul

Ignoramus10294 wrote:

On 2009-07-09, Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


Stealth is a good thing, but is not a substitute for a strong
safe. Many burglars know exactly where the valuables are, especially
when it comes to jewelry. Think about, say, hiring a painter to paint
the house and telling his criminal friends where the valuables are.

Hiding cash is a little easier than, say, hiding jewelry.


Gee. All kinds of people use the same few places to hide things,
thinking, No one would look there! A friend started a security business
years ago. People would tell him no one could find their valuables. He
could find most spots in under a minute. The only way to keep it safe,
is to keep it somewhere off the property in secure storage, or just
don't own it.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Tim Wescott wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach
that safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the
aid of some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


A stealth safe. Just don't forget where you put it. ;-)

Seriously, it takes a lot of work to make it difficult to secure a
safe, without building a building over it. Look at the ATMs being
knocked out of buildings by ramming them with a car, or some earlier
models that they could hook a cable from a wrecker to, and rip it out of
the building.

A floor safe, set in a lot of concrete and under a heavy piece of
furniture is the most secure, and the hardest to use. The harder a safe
is to use, the less likely it is to be used. It happens all the time.
'It takes too long to open the safe', 'Its in a hard to reach place'.
that leads to things being left out, 'till the next time I need to open
the safe'.

What good is a gun, in a safe?

If it's a cool vintage gun that you shoot once a year -- lots.

If it's your protection against home invasion* -- not much.

* I've never suffered a home invasion. No one in my family has suffered
a home invasion. The only person I know who suffered a home invasion ran
with a seriously weird crowd. I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are (a) too paranoid, (b) hanging with the
wrong people, or (c) living in the wrong part of the world. (a) can be
taken care of with medication, (b) can be taken care of by changing your
friends, and (c) can be taken care of by changing the part of the world
that you live in, or living in a different part of the world.

But what do I know.


I'm not worried. I don't keep anything worth stealing, and I give
away a lot of things. I probably have a couple years left, so I really
don't care. All they would get is some food and my truck.

You know enough to realize that is a threat, but not to live in fear
of it.

Did you notice that the number of both home invasions and car jacking
dropped when some of the culprits were shot, in the act?


--
http://www.wescottdesign.com


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:41:15 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are ... (b) hanging with the
wrong people

Does usenet count? g


Only if you think usenet is real life...


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:05:19 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus10294
scrawled the following:

On 2009-07-09, Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

Think differently, rather than "robust" go for stealth.


Stealth is a good thing, but is not a substitute for a strong
safe. Many burglars know exactly where the valuables are, especially
when it comes to jewelry. Think about, say, hiring a painter to paint
the house and telling his criminal friends where the valuables are.

Hiding cash is a little easier than, say, hiding jewelry.

So buy a real safe and have it installed, dude. You have the bucks.
Security companies can suggest good brands.

--
After silence, that which comes nearest
to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-- Aldous Huxley

Consider two safes. One, a cheap one, in rather plain site, with crap
jewelry, so any home invasion will be able to not open the safe, but
be able to remove it without much trouble. The real safe is as others
have described, hidden in an undisclosed location and very securely
fastened to your house foundation.

I like this idea.


It's hard to pull out a floor safe. We installed one in Mom's house after we
had to jackhammer a hole in the concrete slab in the closet to tunnel to the
plumbing for major repairs. The house will be up for sale soon with safe
included.

Use a heavy steel key-lock box for a pistol or shotgun for easy access, bolt
it to the wall or floor from inside. Just make sure the key is on you and
one in the safe, and the kids won't find them laying around.

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

I used to have a floor safe. Rarely used it as was too hard to get to and
open. The small gun safe, holds maybe 6 long guns with an electric lock is
easy to use. When we go away the wife's jewelry goes in the safe. Electric
lock, so easy to open in my old age. Bolts to the floor and wall. Sure a
robber can take it, but they do not want to spend a lot of time in a house.
Just make it very inconvenient and they will rob someone else. An alarm
system is also good. And since about 30 years ago, I designed some alarm
components, I do have some knowledge of them. Pressure mats are easy to
install, and no running of wires for window and door switches.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:



What good is a gun, in a safe?

There is a child in Ig's home, so securing handguns is mandatory.

Ig, you need to think clearly about your objectives. The requirements
for securing a handgun are not the same as those for securing
valuables against burglars. The handgun repository must be capable of
being opened very quickly in total darkness by one who has just been
awakened -- but it need not provide a long delay time against a
determined thief. When you're away from the house for any extended
time, put the gun in the real safe that is bolted to the concrete
floor and can withstand attack of longer than most burgs are willing
to risk.

On 2009-07-09, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
What good is a gun, in a safe?

There is a child in Ig's home, so securing handguns is mandatory.

Ig, you need to think clearly about your objectives. The requirements
for securing a handgun are not the same as those for securing
valuables against burglars. The handgun repository must be capable of
being opened very quickly in total darkness by one who has just been
awakened -- but it need not provide a long delay time against a
determined thief. When you're away from the house for any extended
time, put the gun in the real safe that is bolted to the concrete
floor and can withstand attack of longer than most burgs are willing
to risk.

I think that if I have a safe that has a shelf on a chest level, but is
properly secured both to the floor, as well as to the wall, I could
keep a gun in it and it would be relatively convenient to get to.

I would think that for, perhaps, $500 I could buy something
acceptable.

And yes, I have kids, as well as their clueless friends, and I want to
take no chances with them.

i

jeff_wisnia wrote:



http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

I don't think anyone will be stashing a .44 magnum in that thing.

--
Paul Hovnanian
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

On 2009-07-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
So buy a real safe and have it installed, dude. You have the bucks.
Security companies can suggest good brands.

I think that I will go this route, yes. By the way, here's a good
article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-cracking

Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.

But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

Not sure about where you live, but out here
in N. California, about the only thieves
we ever get are smash-and-grab kids and tweekers.
They want to be in and out in 5 minutes, so
the most important aspect of security is stealth.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do
to keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small
enough for you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the
kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my
silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.
But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

Not sure about where you live, but out here
in N. California, about the only thieves
we ever get are smash-and-grab kids and tweekers.
They want to be in and out in 5 minutes, so
the most important aspect of security is stealth.

And don't underestimate the power of a barky dog.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:41:15 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

snip
* I've never suffered a home invasion. No one in my family has suffered
a home invasion. The only person I know who suffered a home invasion ran
with a seriously weird crowd. I would contend that if you are worried
about home invasions then you are (a) too paranoid, (b) hanging with the
wrong people, or (c) living in the wrong part of the world. (a) can be
taken care of with medication, (b) can be taken care of by changing your
friends, and (c) can be taken care of by changing the part of the world
that you live in, or living in a different part of the world.

But what do I know.

Which one of your theories applies in this case?

http://greenvilledailynews.1upprelau...icleID=2250 9

Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2009-07-09, Jim Stewart wrote:
Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.

But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

Not sure about where you live, but out here
in N. California, about the only thieves
we ever get are smash-and-grab kids and tweekers.
They want to be in and out in 5 minutes, so
the most important aspect of security is stealth.


Do you think that those sorts of people would be capable of removing a
safe that is attached to a wall, with lag screws?

i

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:33:45 -0500, Ignoramus10294
wrote:

snip
Do you think that those sorts of people would be capable of removing a
safe that is attached to a wall, with lag screws?


No, not in your neighborhood. I would be more worried about
fire protection. If you lag a medium to large sized safe
with fire protection to a wall stud you should be all set.
Heck just the weight of one of these babies will stump
anyone for several hours. Your looking at 1000 lbs or more
with some sort of fire protection/insulation in it.

After you get through wrestling it into place and banging up
several doorways along the way you won't worry about it...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, Jim Stewart wrote:
Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.

Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.

But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.
Not sure about where you live, but out here
in N. California, about the only thieves
we ever get are smash-and-grab kids and tweekers.
They want to be in and out in 5 minutes, so
the most important aspect of security is stealth.


Do you think that those sorts of people would be capable of removing a
safe that is attached to a wall, with lag screws?

Capable? maybe. Motivated to do it?
I don't think so. We were broken in
to about three years ago. The burglars
were clearly looking for the most value
in the least time. They got all the
laptops and jewelry and the $200 digital
cameras and camcorders. They left my
Nikon D70 kit sitting on the floor because
it was in a backpack and my dad's Acutron
watch, presumably because it didn't look
valuable. All the firearms were well hidden
and not disturbed.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


What good is a gun, in a safe?

There is a child in Ig's home, so securing handguns is mandatory.


I know that. My questoin was, is a safe the best way to do it.


Ig, you need to think clearly about your objectives. The requirements
for securing a handgun are not the same as those for securing
valuables against burglars. The handgun repository must be capable of
being opened very quickly in total darkness by one who has just been
awakened -- but it need not provide a long delay time against a
determined thief. When you're away from the house for any extended
time, put the gun in the real safe that is bolted to the concrete
floor and can withstand attack of longer than most burgs are willing
to risk.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:32:32 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus10294
scrawled the following:

On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:

Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do to
keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small enough for
you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.

But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

Maybe go with 2 gun safes. A large upright with extra storage space
for your wife's jewelry. ouch!
http://www.gunsafes.com/Browning-Pla...-47-cu-ft.html

And another next to your bed with a pistol in it, for home intrusions.
http://www.gunsafes.com/GunVault-Min...1000C-DLX.html



--
After silence, that which comes nearest
to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-- Aldous Huxley

Don Foreman wrote in
:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:



What good is a gun, in a safe?

There is a child in Ig's home, so securing handguns is mandatory.

Ig, you need to think clearly about your objectives. The requirements
for securing a handgun are not the same as those for securing
valuables against burglars. The handgun repository must be capable of
being opened very quickly in total darkness by one who has just been
awakened -- but it need not provide a long delay time against a
determined thief. When you're away from the house for any extended
time, put the gun in the real safe that is bolted to the concrete
floor and can withstand attack of longer than most burgs are willing
to risk.

There are small safes specifically designed for handguns that allow quick
access:

http://www.gunsafestore.com/pistol.htm

Doug White

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i

We tried to remove a real safe installed in a reinforced concrete wall once
with a jackhammer. The concrete was so thick, strong, and had so much steel
in it the job was abandoned after a few days of work barely made a dent in
it.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:28:18 -0700, the infamous Jim Stewart
scrawled the following:

Jim Stewart wrote:
Ignoramus10294 wrote:
On 2009-07-09, jeff_wisnia wrote:
Short of placing it in a basement and doing a major heavy duty job of
securing it to floor and foundation walls there isn't much you can do
to keep thieves from ripping out and carting away anything small
enough for you to have installed in the first place.

Better to go with stealth, maybe like this:

http://livesafely.org/home-security/...n-a-wall-safe/

But, DON'T mount it in the bedroom. That's the room thieves know most
people keep or hide valuables in. Pick a laundry area or even the
kitchen.


Jeff, I do not keep my valuables (read cash and remainder of my
silver) in
the bedroom, personally. I keep them where they are hard to find.
But bedroom is where women try jewelry, that is why I want a safe
there.

With a good enough safe, if I attach it to the floor and the wall with
lag screws, it will probably be hard enough to remove.

Not sure about where you live, but out here
in N. California, about the only thieves
we ever get are smash-and-grab kids and tweekers.
They want to be in and out in 5 minutes, so
the most important aspect of security is stealth.

And don't underestimate the power of a barky dog.

plink yip thud [silence from then on]

--
After silence, that which comes nearest
to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-- Aldous Huxley

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
,snip
Maybe go with 2 gun safes. A large upright with extra storage space
for your wife's jewelry. ouch!
http://www.gunsafes.com/Browning-Pla...-47-cu-ft.html

And another next to your bed with a pistol in it, for home intrusions.
http://www.gunsafes.com/GunVault-Min...1000C-DLX.html


I have a riding crop next to my bed, does that count?

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:49:33 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:24:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


What good is a gun, in a safe?

There is a child in Ig's home, so securing handguns is mandatory.


I know that. My questoin was, is a safe the best way to do it.

Depends on the objective. If the objective is child safety, something
like this will get it done:
http://www.safetysafeguards.com/site...uct/GV1000CDLX

These are available for considerably less than the price shown. They
can be opened in seconds in total darkness. They're easily defeated
or stolen with contents by burglars but they do provide child safety.
An investigator I know showed children (nieces and nephews) candy and
a $20 bill, put them in such an enclosure, said they could have the
contents if they could open the box. They were unable to do so in the
time they were willing to spend trying before they lost interest.

If I had a child or irresponsible adult resident in my home I would
have one of these or something rather like it of my own design and
fabrication.

Beyond child safety, security is strongly situation-dependent. No
security system or device is absolute. The only difference is how long
and what skills and assets are required to breach and defeat. Stealth
can be a useful adjunct to physical barriers and devices if done
skillfully: they can't steal what they won't find in the time they're
willing to risk.

Another leg on the security stool is creating risk (or the illusion
thereof) of capture or worse. Think ADT or Honeywell monitored alarm
system, junkyard dog, Fort Knox, or a stash or cache multilevel
boobytrapped by one who is very good at his or her art and craft.

"Ignoramus10294" wrote in message
...
I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

i


Well, in the first place, bedrooms are the first place burglars look! In the
past, I worked in law enforcement twice. It gave me a good insight!


Steve R.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:45:47 -0500, Ignoramus10294
wrote:

I would like to buy a safe for a bedroom, mostly to keep my wife's
jewelry, but possibly a handgun as well.

Two issues stand out, one is what sorts of safes are robust in the
sense that they open when commanded, and another is how to attach that
safe securely so that robbers could not simply take it with the aid of
some tools like large prybars.

Any practical thoughts on this will be appreciated.

You need two - or three (His and Hers) - seperate safes.

For a handgun, you need a small lockbox with a combination lock that
can be opened by feel in a dark room. The push-button combination
lock is a classic - and DO NOT leave it at the factory default
combination setting.

You can't really bolt it down that well, unless you want to bolt
your whole bedroom set to the floor and hide steel bracketry inside.
Do what you can, chains and lag bolts to the studs - slow them down.

It would be a really good idea to wire a tamper switch to the
handgun safe and have it on a 24-hour zone of your alarm system.
Whether it's kids getting into it, the cleaning lady getting snoopy,
or a thief trying to take the whole nightstand "To Go" and find out
what's inside later, you want to know about it. Now.

And while wiring it up, it's easy to put a Panic Button switch next
to it. When the Alarm Company gets a signal for the silent alarm
button trigger at the same time as the gun safe opening, they know to
roll the Cops before wasting the time calling you to confirm - since
you are probably in a situation where seconds count.

Oh, and they can tell the Cops that the resident is armed. Which is
kind of important, you don't want them acting on reflex and
ventilating the holder of the first gun they see.

For larger valuables and long guns, you really need a free-standing
safe. Bolted securely to a concrete slab floor, and in an inside room
where they can't just drive a forklift up to it and load it up. And
the tamper & alarm switches aren't a bad idea there either.

-- Bruce --

I would not say that ahome invasion of impossible, but I have to
balance the dangers and inconveniences of having guns easily
available, in a house with children, and a need for guns in the
unlikely event of a home invasion.


You teach children about guns, just like looking both before crossing the
street, that stoves are hot, about how to use tools.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:35:48 +0300, "Rick Samuel"
wrote:




I would not say that ahome invasion of impossible, but I have to
balance the dangers and inconveniences of having guns easily
available, in a house with children, and a need for guns in the
unlikely event of a home invasion.


You teach children about guns, just like looking both before crossing the
street, that stoves are hot, about how to use tools.

I suppose it is an interesting comment on modern society. When I was a
child we were taught that there were certain actions that one just did
not engage in as they resulted in immediate and painful retribution.

don't touch Papa's tools
don't touch Papa's guns
don't sass Mama
don't leave the gate open so the critters could get out
don't tell lies (at least if you might get caught)
don't steal

There were probably others and I'm sure that I don't remember the
entire catechism but I don't believe that learning them caused any
particular mental trauma.

But now it seems that children must be protected against doing things
that they should have been taught not to do.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:00:10 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
,snip
Maybe go with 2 gun safes. A large upright with extra storage space
for your wife's jewelry. ouch!
http://www.gunsafes.com/Browning-Pla...-47-cu-ft.html

And another next to your bed with a pistol in it, for home intrusions.
http://www.gunsafes.com/GunVault-Min...1000C-DLX.html


I have a riding crop next to my bed, does that count?

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! My mind's eye! Don't _DO_ that, Tawm.

--
After silence, that which comes nearest
to expressing the inexpressible is music.
-- Aldous Huxley