Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

Exactly what I did. After I learned my lesson, never had trouble again.
FWIW, I run the skimmer and aerator just 1/2 hour a day when not in use.

Karl

Ignoramus31261 wrote:
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i


There are antibacterial additives available to kiil off the existing
bacteria in your coolant. I would recommend you call the manufacturer
of the coolant and see what they recommend.

John

On 2009-05-08, Karl Townsend wrote:

Exactly what I did. After I learned my lesson, never had trouble again.
FWIW, I run the skimmer and aerator just 1/2 hour a day when not in use.

Exactly my plan. First run skimmer for 1/2 hour, then aerator for 1/2
hour.

i

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

You really need to wash off the machine to, because you could have bacteria
laying in pockets of the machine waiting for fresh coolant to revive them.
At work they clean all the machine surfaces with disinfectant before adding
new coolant.

Richard W.

On 2009-05-09, Richard W. wrote:
You really need to wash off the machine to, because you could have bacteria
laying in pockets of the machine waiting for fresh coolant to revive them.
At work they clean all the machine surfaces with disinfectant before adding
new coolant.

I would just pour in a couple of buckets of doluted bleach and can run
the pump for a few minutes with it. Would that work?

i

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-09, Richard W. wrote:
You really need to wash off the machine to, because you could have
bacteria
laying in pockets of the machine waiting for fresh coolant to revive
them.
At work they clean all the machine surfaces with disinfectant before
adding
new coolant.

I would just pour in a couple of buckets of doluted bleach and can run
the pump for a few minutes with it. Would that work?


Bacteria that live on bleach are not uncommon.
You really ought to use both a anti-bacterial agent and fungicide inside and
out.
Antibacterial soap is everywhere. Check a pool supplu house for the
fungicide. They will have something and DO wash the entire machine and then
rinse it well.

JC

Can't you get synthetic coolant for that and avoid the problem all
together? When I set up my surface grinder several years ago, I went
to an industrial lubricant and solvent company and they sold me some
stuff that never goes "bad". It cost $135 for a 5 gallon pail 10 or 15
years ago) and I dilute it 32:1, using a 15 gallon tank.

My brother worked at Gardner Machine for many years and he used to tell
about how bad the place smelled every Monday morning, and I didn't want
that in my shop.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Ignoramus31261 wrote:
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

Or you could run cutting oil and be done with the hassle, as I advised a few
months ago. I made the same mistake many years ago, switched and haven't
regretted it since. The fact is that as a hobby machine, we simply don't use
the machine enough to prevent this from occurring with soluable oil. If you
do not have a drain petcock on the bottom of the tank, you should install
one once the machine is cleaned.
Steve

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

On 2009-05-09, spaco wrote:
Can't you get synthetic coolant for that and avoid the problem all
together? When I set up my surface grinder several years ago, I went
to an industrial lubricant and solvent company and they sold me some
stuff that never goes "bad". It cost $135 for a 5 gallon pail 10 or 15
years ago) and I dilute it 32:1, using a 15 gallon tank.

I will call some places to find out where I can buy it. It would be
great indeed.

i

My brother worked at Gardner Machine for many years and he used to tell
about how bad the place smelled every Monday morning, and I didn't want
that in my shop.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Ignoramus31261 wrote:
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

On 2009-05-09, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Or you could run cutting oil and be done with the hassle, as I advised a few
months ago. I made the same mistake many years ago, switched and haven't
regretted it since. The fact is that as a hobby machine, we simply don't use
the machine enough to prevent this from occurring with soluable oil. If you
do not have a drain petcock on the bottom of the tank, you should install
one once the machine is cleaned.

I would say Steve, maybe I will learn a thing or two from using
soluble coolant, plus the splash from it on the floor is not as bad as
it would be with straight oil.

That said, I remain open to changing my mind.

Would hydraulic fluid, perhaps, be a suitable substitute? I have two
sealed buckets of it at the moment, hence the question.

i


"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-09, Richard W. wrote:
You really need to wash off the machine to, because you could have
bacteria
laying in pockets of the machine waiting for fresh coolant to revive
them.
At work they clean all the machine surfaces with disinfectant before
adding
new coolant.

I would just pour in a couple of buckets of doluted bleach and can run
the pump for a few minutes with it. Would that work?

i

The coolant can get splashed all over while cutting. So if you just run the
pump you may not get into all the nooks and crannies on your machine. At
work they have a specially built pump and wand to spray the disinfectant
around and scrub the really dirty spots. Then they rinse everything out.

Richard W.

Iggy,
Actually, the splash is worse with soluable oil because when the water
evaporates it leaves a very sticky film that is very difficult to remove. On
that note, I use a very concentrated form of 409 that is sold by the barrel
and is used to clean truck taupalins on commercial trucks. It emulsifies oil
better than anything I have found and I wash all my machines with the stuff
about once a year. The only downside of using cutting oil is that I
experience water accumulating at the bottom of the sump on the big lathe. It
sits in the unheated part of the shop and experiences some condensation in
the winter months, hence the recommendation for the petcock. If oil splash
hits the floor, I use speedy-dry and simply sweep it up. I also like the
lubricating properties of cutting oil, not present in soluable oil. On your
question of using hydraulic fluid, I guess you could, but those lubricating
properties of cutting oil would not be there and the fact that cutting oil
is much less expensive than hydraulic oil, why would you bother. Here is
another possible tip. I order my machine and cutting oils from my local
heating oil supplier by the barrel. They can also order the oils in 20 Liter
plastic containers. It is much less expensive than an industrial supply
house. Of course, that may not be the same where you are, but it is worth
investigating. I keep in stock a barrel of light machine oil 100-150 Saybolt
and 250-350 Saybolt. The first for spindle bearings (headstock) and the
second for gearboxes and machine ways, as well as cutting oil. I do use
soluable oil in a portable Cool-Mist system for the mills when needed.
Steve

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-09, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Or you could run cutting oil and be done with the hassle, as I advised a
few
months ago. I made the same mistake many years ago, switched and haven't
regretted it since. The fact is that as a hobby machine, we simply don't
use
the machine enough to prevent this from occurring with soluable oil. If
you
do not have a drain petcock on the bottom of the tank, you should install
one once the machine is cleaned.

I would say Steve, maybe I will learn a thing or two from using
soluble coolant, plus the splash from it on the floor is not as bad as
it would be with straight oil.

That said, I remain open to changing my mind.

Would hydraulic fluid, perhaps, be a suitable substitute? I have two
sealed buckets of it at the moment, hence the question.

i


"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

I would just pour in a couple of buckets of doluted bleach and can run
the pump for a few minutes with it. Would that work?

i

The coolant can get splashed all over while cutting. So if you just run
the pump you may not get into all the nooks and crannies on your machine.
At work they have a specially built pump and wand to spray the
disinfectant around and scrub the really dirty spots. Then they rinse
everything out.


Nothing wrong with cleaning, but everybody is just scaring you. These guys
are anaerobic, won't live long in an O2 rich area like a machine surface.
Keep the oil film off the top of the sump and give the coolant a bit of O2
daily, you won't have trouble again.



Karl

Igor,

I've been using Hangsterfer S500 for a couple of years now and the first
batch is still odor free and I've never aerated it. It's sitting in a
bucket, gradually evaporating the water off before disposal. I use it at
5% - I can give you a sample if you need enough to make up 5-gal or so of
diluted coolant. The stuff costs around $125 for 5 gallons so it's a good
idea to make sure you like it before you buy.

Mike

"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-09, spaco wrote:
Can't you get synthetic coolant for that and avoid the problem all
together? When I set up my surface grinder several years ago, I went
to an industrial lubricant and solvent company and they sold me some
stuff that never goes "bad". It cost $135 for a 5 gallon pail 10 or 15
years ago) and I dilute it 32:1, using a 15 gallon tank.

I will call some places to find out where I can buy it. It would be
great indeed.

i

My brother worked at Gardner Machine for many years and he used to tell
about how bad the place smelled every Monday morning, and I didn't want
that in my shop.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Ignoramus31261 wrote:
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

On 2009-05-09, Mike Henry wrote:
Igor,

I've been using Hangsterfer S500 for a couple of years now and the first
batch is still odor free and I've never aerated it. It's sitting in a
bucket, gradually evaporating the water off before disposal. I use it at
5% - I can give you a sample if you need enough to make up 5-gal or so of
diluted coolant. The stuff costs around $125 for 5 gallons so it's a good
idea to make sure you like it before you buy.

Mike, I am just about done pumping out the coolant, rinsing, rinsing
with Clorox, rinsing several times more etc. After another hour or so,
the lathe would be clean and totally dry inside and out.

So I am interested in getting something that would hold up for a few
years. I do not really mind paying a fair price for a gallon of
concentrate if it really is as good. Let me know and I can stop by
with some cash in hand to get that Hangsterfer stuff, a gallon or
however much you can sell.

i

On May 9, 8:45*am, Ignoramus11970 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11970.invalid wrote:

Mike, I am just about done pumping out the coolant, rinsing, rinsing
with Clorox, rinsing several times more etc. After another hour or so,
the lathe would be clean and totally dry inside and out.


Be sure to rinse well; chlorine bleach causes rust.

It would've been far less effort to accept that home shop machines don't
need coolant systems, when some others were advising you earlier.

If you're destroying an excessive number of cutting tools because of cutting
heat problems, then you might need a coolant system.

If you're experiencing part dimension tolerance problems due to heat
generated in the workpieces, then you might need a coolant system.

Instead, you probably want a coolant system just because you want your lathe
to look like a real industrial machine (might be worth more at resale if the
uninformed buyer thinks he needs a coolant system).
Any sensible prospective buyer should be more interested in how the machine
has been lubricated during it's past usage.

Actually, all you're doing is wasting your time. Any brush-on or dribble
method of cutting tool lubricant (not coolant) would be adequate for any
normal lathe operation, for most home shop machines.

If you had read any of the related posts WRT the purpose of coolant systems,
and posts concerning what lathe owners do as far as applying cutting tool
lubricant (not coolant), you might be able to realize how useless a coolant
system is on a home shop lathe.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html



"Ignoramus31261" wrote in message
...
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i

On Sat, 9 May 2009 04:55:23 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


I would just pour in a couple of buckets of doluted bleach and can run
the pump for a few minutes with it. Would that work?

i

The coolant can get splashed all over while cutting. So if you just run
the pump you may not get into all the nooks and crannies on your machine.
At work they have a specially built pump and wand to spray the
disinfectant around and scrub the really dirty spots. Then they rinse
everything out.


Nothing wrong with cleaning, but everybody is just scaring you. These guys
are anaerobic, won't live long in an O2 rich area like a machine surface.
Keep the oil film off the top of the sump and give the coolant a bit of O2
daily, you won't have trouble again.



Karl

True indeed. Run a fish pump an hour or day with a decent stone on it
and ou will be golden.

Gunner, machine tool mechanic.
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

Wild Bill, I tried cutting identical 12L14 steel rods with and without
coolant. The finish quality was much better with coolant.

I also bored a pulley, something I coubt I could do without coolant
due to a tiny cutting tool tip that would otherwise overheat.

The coolant also does a superb job at not letting the lathe rust in
garage conditions.

I do want my lathe to look like an industrial machine and I do not
feel that it is wrong. I had this coolant in the lathe since January
and it lasted pretty much until now despite some neglect.

The question of what cutting fluid to use is a very good one and I do
not make any claims about what is best. But as of now I have no doubts
that the ability to use coolant is very helpful.

i

You always seem to dismiss any number of points that don't support/reinforce
your misguided point of view. That practice is becoming very common around
here lately.

I believe your last position on foul coolant was it's not a problem because
you've proven it by putting a jar of it (presumably covered) on a shelf, and
it hasn't gone bad in a long time.
Now your exposed coolant in the open-to-air sump is turning foul. A typical
reaction could be: no ****.

For rust prevention, the most common and properly effective equipment is an
oil can, and at least one good eye. Manually oiling your machine gives you
the opportunity to inspect for cleanliness or problems as one puts oil on
various parts.
It sounds like you feel you don't need to oil your machine because you have
a coolant system on it.

Adjusting speed and feeds to appropriate ranges extends cutting tool life.
The use of a cutting tool lubricant (not coolant) extends cutting tool life
and dramatically improves surface finishes.

The reason there is coolant in a car's radiator is to prevent the engine
from overheating.
The reason coolant isn't used in the crankcase is because lubricants are far
better at reducing friction.

You often ask for advice/help with a situation, then you disregard most
points that are rational, and just add a lot of babble that you think is
going to convince anyone/someone that you know what you're talking about.

Maybe it would benefit you to spend more time concentrating on the lives of
strangers in Alaska. Possibly only a handful of others here in RCM weren't
already expecting these events to take place.

I must have missed something important, but getting great-to-excellent
surface finishes on leaded steel alloys hasn't been a problem for any more
than a few inexperienced or stubborn and misguided machine operators.

As I've suggested before, if you read and applied some of the excellent
machining advice that's available here in RCM on a regular basis, WRT feeds,
speeds, cutting tool geometry and cutting lubricants.. you probably wouldn't
experience poor machining performance on most materials you might work with,
or at least you would understand why the performance/finish isn't as good as
expected.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


Stryped's brother "Ignoramus11970"
wrote in message ...

stuff

On 2009-05-09, Ignoramus11970 wrote:
On 2009-05-09, Mike Henry wrote:
Igor,

I've been using Hangsterfer S500 for a couple of years now and the first
batch is still odor free and I've never aerated it. It's sitting in a
bucket, gradually evaporating the water off before disposal. I use it at
5% - I can give you a sample if you need enough to make up 5-gal or so of
diluted coolant. The stuff costs around $125 for 5 gallons so it's a good
idea to make sure you like it before you buy.

Mike, I am just about done pumping out the coolant, rinsing, rinsing
with Clorox, rinsing several times more etc. After another hour or so,
the lathe would be clean and totally dry inside and out.

Do you have a high intensity UV source? If so, giving the
interior a half hour of illumination from that (keeping the kids away,
of course) would perhaps zap the last bugs.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ignoramus31261 wrote:
Due neglect and mismanagement, the coolant in my lathe finally went
bad after several months in the sump. I have to add here that I have
all ingredients for setting up both the skimmer, as well as aerator,
to run on two timers, something that I plan on doing soon. But as of
now, I want to make sure that I properly remove old coolant.

As far as I understand, I should try to really get rid of the harmful
bacterias that live in the present coolant. I have a easy to use water
pump that I can use for this purpose.

So my plan was, pump out the coolant, rince the sump a couple of times
with just hot water with some Simple Green, then put water with bleach
for an hour, and rinse some more. Would that seem to be a good plan?

i
Yup, pretty good plan. But, really, just washing
it out and refilling with a non-growing coolant
mix will work fine. I used to have this problem
with Tri-Cool, it constantly grew stuff. I
switched to Encool from Engineered Lubricants, and
while there will eventually be some scum forming,
it never smells. I have let it almost totally
evaporate over months without any nasty stuff
going on. Just pour water in and it is back to
normal. I don't use any skimmer or aerator!

Jon

Ignoramus31261 wrote:

I will call some places to find out where I can buy it. It would be
great indeed.
Definitely call Engineered Lubricants. Their
salesman called me and I told them the sorts of
materials and processes I did, and he brought out
a gallon of concentrate to try out. Well, I am a
total convert. I am really embarrased I haven't
used up the free gallon so I can buy some of their
stuff, I am very happy with it compared to the
Tri-Cool junk that was awful with the growth problem.

Jon

Wild_Bill wrote:
It would've been far less effort to accept that home shop machines don't
need coolant systems, when some others were advising you earlier.

If you're destroying an excessive number of cutting tools because of
cutting heat problems, then you might need a coolant system.

If you're experiencing part dimension tolerance problems due to heat
generated in the workpieces, then you might need a coolant system.
I do a lot of instrument panels and equipment
cases from aluminum, and often have local heating
problems with these. A flood coolant system
totally avoids the nasty melted aluminum glob all
over the cutter problem. This is on the mill.

On a lathe, I have run into workpiece heating to
the extent that I have had to leave the lathe
running (the chuck jaws act as a centrifugal fan)
for 10 minutes to cool down a part where I was
removing a lot of stock. A flood coolant system
would have allowed me to keep running. But, that
has been a pretty rare situation for me on the lathe.

Jon

I understand what your experiences are for those situations, Jon.

Just for the sake of running these concepts up the flagpole..

There are situations where a continuous flow/flood of liquid are extremely
advantageous, such as cutting T-slots, for vastly improved chip removal.

What determines which liquid is best for the particular job, in most cases,
is largely defined by the cutting forces. Cutting forces are largely a
result of workpiece material but also feeds and speeds.

Cutting tool lubricants will reduce tool and workpiece heat build-up as
cutting forces are effectively reduced by the properties of the cutting
lube. If it's fed as a flood, it carries heat away, and it's likely to be
cooler than the area where the actual cutting is taking place.
If the cutting lube is brushed or dribbled onto the workpiece in the area of
the cutting forces, I'd expect the properties of the cutting lube are the
major advantage.

Generally, cutting forces are reduced as speed is reduced.. if the machine
is capable of being slowed down. If it's not, then flood coolant may be a
requirement as a backup plan, plan B, essentially. Extra insurance against
workpiece and cutting tool damage (or premature wear).

Most home shop users nearly always have the option to reduce cutting forces
(slower speed and/or reduced DOC depth of cut), but in production
workplaces, performance is time-related.

So for the vast majority of home shop machine users, flood coolant offers no
realistic advantages over the diligent application of a quality cutting
lubricant.

Basically, very few home shop machines benefit greatly from flood coolant,
until you need a helper to wheelbarrow out the chips so the operator can
maintain access to the machine.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
I do a lot of instrument panels and equipment cases from aluminum, and
often have local heating problems with these. A flood coolant system
totally avoids the nasty melted aluminum glob all over the cutter problem.
This is on the mill.

On a lathe, I have run into workpiece heating to the extent that I have
had to leave the lathe running (the chuck jaws act as a centrifugal fan)
for 10 minutes to cool down a part where I was removing a lot of stock. A
flood coolant system would have allowed me to keep running. But, that has
been a pretty rare situation for me on the lathe.

Jon

On May 9, 1:59*pm, Ignoramus11970 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11970.invalid wrote:
Wild Bill, I tried cutting identical 12L14 steel rods with and without
coolant. The finish quality was much better with coolant.
...
i

Does "without coolant" mean completely dry?

I like to experiment with things like this. The biggest difference I
see is between absolutely no cutting lube and a little bit brushed on.
I'll start roughing down without any and see what the finish is.
Sometimes it's OK depending on the tool sharpness and geometry, feed,
speed and the material (often unknown scrap or hardware-store bolts
and rods). If the finish is rough I brush on a little cutting oil and
then watch. It may need more for each pass, or last a few before the
finish roughens. I think the best indicator is to add more when the
smoke fades out.

Decent HSS has never overheated on me without cutting oil. The
cheapest Enco blue-tube end mills dull quickly on steel at normal
cutting speed with or without oil, so I use my remaining stock of them
for aluminum while they're fresh, and then for questionable scrap
steel at a lower speed.

At work I generally machine plastic dry and aluminum either dry or
with whatever cutting oil is in the squirt bottle. The machinists and
engineers have their own preferences, some cut faster with flood
coolant and others don't to save cleanup time. The Bridgeport I've
been using doesn't have it and cleans up quickly with a shop vac. The
sticky CNC machines take a lot longer.

jsw

"Ignoramus11970" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-09, Mike Henry wrote:
Igor,

I've been using Hangsterfer S500 for a couple of years now and the first
batch is still odor free and I've never aerated it. It's sitting in a
bucket, gradually evaporating the water off before disposal. I use it at
5% - I can give you a sample if you need enough to make up 5-gal or so of
diluted coolant. The stuff costs around $125 for 5 gallons so it's a
good
idea to make sure you like it before you buy.

Mike, I am just about done pumping out the coolant, rinsing, rinsing
with Clorox, rinsing several times more etc. After another hour or so,
the lathe would be clean and totally dry inside and out.

So I am interested in getting something that would hold up for a few
years. I do not really mind paying a fair price for a gallon of
concentrate if it really is as good. Let me know and I can stop by
with some cash in hand to get that Hangsterfer stuff, a gallon or
however much you can sell.

i

I can spare a gallon, no charge in view of past favors rendered. I should
be home just about all of next weekend - can you stop by then? Email me to
confirm, or call if you still have the number.

Mike

On 2009-05-10, Mike Henry wrote:
I can spare a gallon, no charge in view of past favors rendered. I should
be home just about all of next weekend - can you stop by then? Email me to
confirm, or call if you still have the number.

Mike, this is awesome, I sent you an email.

i

Wild_Bill wrote:
You always seem to dismiss any number of points that don't support/reinforce
your misguided point of view. That practice is becoming very common around
here lately.

I believe your last position on foul coolant was it's not a problem because
you've proven it by putting a jar of it (presumably covered) on a shelf, and
it hasn't gone bad in a long time.
Now your exposed coolant in the open-to-air sump is turning foul. A typical
reaction could be: no ****.

For rust prevention, the most common and properly effective equipment is an
oil can, and at least one good eye. Manually oiling your machine gives you
the opportunity to inspect for cleanliness or problems as one puts oil on
various parts.
It sounds like you feel you don't need to oil your machine because you have
a coolant system on it.

Adjusting speed and feeds to appropriate ranges extends cutting tool life.
The use of a cutting tool lubricant (not coolant) extends cutting tool life
and dramatically improves surface finishes.

The reason there is coolant in a car's radiator is to prevent the engine
from overheating.
The reason coolant isn't used in the crankcase is because lubricants are far
better at reducing friction.

You often ask for advice/help with a situation, then you disregard most
points that are rational, and just add a lot of babble that you think is
going to convince anyone/someone that you know what you're talking about.

Maybe it would benefit you to spend more time concentrating on the lives of
strangers in Alaska. Possibly only a handful of others here in RCM weren't
already expecting these events to take place.

I must have missed something important, but getting great-to-excellent
surface finishes on leaded steel alloys hasn't been a problem for any more
than a few inexperienced or stubborn and misguided machine operators.

As I've suggested before, if you read and applied some of the excellent
machining advice that's available here in RCM on a regular basis, WRT feeds,
speeds, cutting tool geometry and cutting lubricants.. you probably wouldn't
experience poor machining performance on most materials you might work with,
or at least you would understand why the performance/finish isn't as good as
expected.

Excellent.