I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

wrote in message
...
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

The older reminders were made of plastic. I think they had a tapered hole
tapped for the insert being used.....

"Rick" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

The older reminders were made of plastic. I think they had a tapered hole
tapped for the insert being used.....

"prewinders"...damn spell checker....

On Mar 5, 10:04*am, wrote:
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. *Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install * (1) * *1/4-28 thread insert. *Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). *About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. *I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. * Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. *For those
of you *who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. *Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

There's a number of different brands of inserts, there's no standard
tap, though. If you're trying to use a different brand of insert with
a Helicoil-tapped hole, it may not go. The gizmo I've seen on the
chain auto-parts store pegs with the Helicoil kit was just a T-handle
with a slot on the bottom, the shank was just under clearance size for
the Helicoil hole. The idea being that you'd crank on the horizontal
peg on the insert and it would shrink the thing just enough to get it
into the hole. When you got it flush, you gave the peg a rap to bust
it off and leave the threaded hole clear. The T-handle would only
take a few minutes on a lathe to make up. The kits were only like
$10, last I looked, included a few inserts, the drill, tap and handle
gizmo. I use them only once in a blue-moon, so have no idea what
current prices are.

Stan

Stan, others:

Follow-up question. I am trying to visualize making a prewinder. I
understand making the OD of the prewinder undersize to the ID of the
threads. I could slot the end of the prewinder to secure the break-
off tang on the insert to the prewinder. How do I grab/secure the
other end of the insert? I am trying to visualize trying to hold the
insert in my fingers while trying to twist the prewinder - not sure if
I will be able to do so. Other suggestions for holding the upper end
of the insert? BTW, I have 20 to 30 of these inserts to play with and
only need to fix one stripped thread (atleast for this project).

wrote: (clip) How do I grab/secure the
other end of the insert? I am trying to visualize trying to hold the
insert in my fingers while trying to twist the prewinder - not sure if
I will be able to do so.(clip.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You don't have to. As you insert it, the friction between the insert and
the threads will cause it to wind up on the insertion tool just enough to
let it slide. It's a feedback situation. Too little windup=more friction.

wrote in message
...
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

You can make an insertion tool with a 1/4-28 bolt. Looking at the end of the
bolt, rotate it until you see exactly 1 full thread. Notch fully through the
thread with a hack saw for a nice square shoulder, and grind or file the
rest of the thread lead away for at least 270 degrees. Welding on a tee
handle is especially nice, but a socket and ratchet works almost as well.

On 2009-03-05, wrote:
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a

[ ... ]

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.


Turn a shaft a bit smaller than the ID of the insert as
installed (smaller than the minor diameter of the 1/4-28 thread as
tapped in solid metal) -- probably the tap drill diameter for 1/4-28.

Cut a notch in the end of it about twice the thickness of the
bent cross section.

Cross drill near the other end and put in a crank handle.

Bore a tube into which the insert will slide, and leave the last
1/4" or so tap size for the insert tap.

Tap the last 1/4" or so with the tap you use for the inserts (28
TPI, but something larger in diameter). (You *might* be able to get away
with just turning this last part to the OD of the tap you used for the
insert installation.)

Slide the insert, with the cross bent end first, into the tube,
Follow it with the notched shaft and engage the cross bent end. Start
to crank clockwise until the insert just shows flush with the threaded
end.

Official versions have a window near the reduced diameter end
half the diameter and long enough to allow the longest insert to be
installed without fully withdrawing the crank, which is typically
captive.

Place the end against the tapped hole in your workpiece, and
wind the insert out of the tube and into the workpiece thread.

Once it is in place, withdraw the slotted crank, and using a
smaller diameter pin and a small hammer, break off the cross-pin and
withdraw it with a magnet.

This is based on several Helicoil install kits which I have
acquired at a hamfest.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

For 1/4 28 helicoil you can probably use a regular yellow pencil with a slot
cut in the end and twist it in to the freshly tapped hole. The pencil might
be a bit too big around, but you could thin it a bit if that was the case.

Another alternative is to use a set of thin forceps or needle nose pliers to
grip the tang and thread it in.

--

__
Roger Shoaf

Important factors in selecting a mate:
1] Depth of gene pool
2] Position on the food chain.



wrote in message
...
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:04:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.
Find someone with the installer tool and pay them to install it.
Still cheaper than buying the tool, and it will be done right.
Or let the moths out of your wallet and buy the tool. Then you can
install the rest of those inserts for someone who doesn't have/need
the tool, and pay for it that way.

Roger:

As part of my fumbling with the insert, I one of my trials was to grab
the insert by the tang with a pair of very long slender needle nose
pliers but I could never get the first thread insert to engage into
the tapped bore (part of why I have come to the conclustion that I
need to prewind the insert to an unsersize diameter).

All:

thanks for the suggestions, I have jotted down notes and will
incorporate your suggestions tomorrow (unfortunately my shop is 10
mile from home and I only get there a couple of times per week -
preventing me from completing this simple task yesterday or this
evening)


On Mar 6, 12:54*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
For 1/4 28 helicoil you can probably use a regular yellow pencil with a slot
cut in the end and twist it in to the freshly tapped hole. *The pencil might
be a bit too big around, but you could thin it a bit if that was the case..

Another alternative is to use a set of thin forceps or needle nose pliers to
grip the tang and thread it in.

--

__
Roger Shoaf

writes:

I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I'm curious -- what problems have you had? I've had very consistent
good luck with Heli-coils, going into both steel and aluminum...

You are using a thread inset tap right? They are special taps. You
can't use a regular tap.

I had success with making an undersize winder, using the tang as a
drive feature *and* restraining the upper end of the insert with my
fingertips to wind the insert undersize prior to getting it to feed in
to the tapped hole. It actually took 3 tries (destroyed 2 inserts
that got stuck half way in the hole). If that had not worked I was
going to fab a sleeve as reccomended by one of the other posters.
This repair was for a fuel pump for my '61 Ford Falcon. The pump is
made up of a series of castings bolted together. Pump is back in the
car and I even fired the engine up last Saturday.

After I was done I gathered up the remaining inserts and counted them
- what I thought was approx 30 pcs is more like 110 pcs. I gathered
all the inserts, the tap and my winder (a 1/4-20 bolt turned to
slightly less than the minor dia of the threads).

Pirateer guy:
Yes, I am using a special tap for this size/pitch of thread insert but
the brand of insert is a mystery so I was not expecting perfect
results in getting the insert to wind into the tapped bore. As belt
and suspenders, I used Loc-tite on the OD of the insert. The bolt
into the insert was a tight fit (expected since the inserts have the
deformed thread to retain the fastener) and the insert held during 2
or 3 trial assembly and diassembly operations.



On Mar 11, 6:53*pm, Dan@ (Pirateer guy) wrote:
You are using a thread inset tap right? They are special taps. You
can't use a regular tap.

2009ë…„ 3ì›” 6ì�¼ 금요ì�¼ 오ì*„ 2ì‹œ 4분 59ì´ˆ UTC+9, (ì•Œ 수 ì—†ì�Œ) 님ì�˜ ë§�:
I have never had much luck in using Helicoil thread inserts - even
when I used a kit. Now I am trying to do so without buying a kit.

I am trying to install (1) 1/4-28 thread insert. Because of a
relatively thin wall condition, a thin wall solid thread insert is out
of the question (my prefered solution for thread inserts). About 15 -
20 years ago I aquired a strip of 1/28 thread inserts (brand unkbown).
So I figured that I would buy a 1/4-28 thrd insert tap from McMaster-
Carr and fumble thru getting the one thread installed (and have the
tap available to use in the future).

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

If you need HELICOIL, Please cotnact us by e-mail

wrote ...

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking
in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the
1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For
those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing -
advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more
money
to install one insert.

How about a 3/16" dowel with a saw slot across the end?

Or the equivalent made of metal, if you can.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

wrote ...

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the 1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing - advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more money
to install one insert.

How about a 3/16" dowel with a saw slot across the end?

Or the equivalent made of metal, if you can.

jsw

In a couple cases I succeeded in installing an insert using a pair of wire
forming pliers. Not ideal, but it got the job done. For a tough fit a
drill bit with a slot cut in the back with a Dremel fiber wheel, and a pair
of locking pliers to hold the bit work also. I have not had good luck with
cheap steel rod stock, but it may also work if the tap is a good match to
the coil.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ...

wrote ...

No luck in fumbling thru with it. I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. Looking
in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the
1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. For
those
of you who use these regularily and know what you are doing -
advice
please. Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more
money
to install one insert.

How about a 3/16" dowel with a saw slot across the end?

Or the equivalent made of metal, if you can.



Usually I'll simply grind a "notch" into a mating bolt that engages the helicoil tang , with sort of "sloped facet" so that the tang doesn't snag and end up backing the helicoilout out when the bolt is withdrawn....

That said, most auto part supply stores will have a reasonably priced plastic insertion tool available that should work just fine so long as you're not installing thread inserts by the dozens, and so if I was heading to town to buy some helicoils anyways well then perhaps...

On Jun 22, 1:52*pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in ...

wrote ...

No luck in fumbling thru with it. *I tried to twist the insert to
reduce the OD, I tried to deform the end of the insert to make it
undersize, I tried to install the insert backwards, I threaded the
insert on a short 1/4-28 SHCS to use as an install tool. * Looking
in
the McMaster catalog, I see that the installation tool for the
1/4-28
is a winder style to reduce the OD of the insert for $32+. *For
those
of you *who use these regularily and know what you are doing -
advice
please. *Obviously, I am not overly interested in spending more
money
to install one insert.

How about a 3/16" dowel with a saw slot across the end?

Or the equivalent made of metal, if you can.

Usually I'll simply grind a "notch" into a mating bolt that engages the helicoil tang , with sort of *"sloped facet" so that the tang doesn't snag and end up backing the helicoilout out when the bolt is withdrawn....

That said, most auto part supply stores will have a reasonably priced plastic insertion tool available that should work just fine so long as you're not installing thread inserts by the dozens, and so if I was heading to town to buy some helicoils anyways well then perhaps...

You guys DO realize that the original thread is like 3 years old?
Some chink spammer resurrected it.

Stan

"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
...

You guys DO realize that the original thread is like 3 years old?

Yes.

Some chink spammer resurrected it.

No idea where the spammer hails from, it really does not matter....

On 2012-06-23, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
...

You guys DO realize that the original thread is like 3 years old?

Yes.

Some chink spammer resurrected it.

No idea where the spammer hails from, it really does not matter....

Actually -- based on the IP of the machine it was posted from,
it was in Korea. The IP was 14.45.85.67, and it fits in the range:

14.32.0.0 - 14.95.255.255

which is all allocated to Korea Telecom.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2012-06-23, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
...

You guys DO realize that the original thread is like 3 years old?

Yes.

Some chink spammer resurrected it.

No idea where the spammer hails from, it really does not matter....

Actually -- based on the IP of the machine it was posted from,
it was in Korea. The IP was 14.45.85.67, and it fits in the range:

14.32.0.0 - 14.95.255.255

which is all allocated to Korea Telecom.

Enjoy,
DoN.



At least it spurred a bit of on-topic discussion.

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:HYadnRpUxeULxnjSnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2012-06-23, PrecisionmachinisT
wrote:

"Stanley Schaefer" wrote in message
...

You guys DO realize that the original thread is like 3 years old?

Yes.

Some chink spammer resurrected it.

No idea where the spammer hails from, it really does not
matter....

Actually -- based on the IP of the machine it was posted from,
it was in Korea. The IP was 14.45.85.67, and it fits in the range:

14.32.0.0 - 14.95.255.255

which is all allocated to Korea Telecom.

Enjoy,
DoN.
At least it spurred a bit of on-topic discussion.

I saw it, but took a chance to be helpful.

This Windows system is a "sandbox" that can be overwritten if
infected.

jsw