"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Regular Army! Not National Guard.
And if it comes to it today, there will be enough people who follow orders
that
they will accomplish their mission - what ever the politicians in charge
tell
them it is.

Be afraid, gunner.
Be very afraid.


Go he http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/gros...rventions.html

Scroll down and note how many times troops were deployed on US soil.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:17:21 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Behfel ist behfel, nein?

Gunner


Nein!

Befehl ist befehl :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

On 2009-02-02, Ignoramus13011 wrote:
I have had just a few observations of prices on things that I am
familiar with. And I think that outside of the realm of unsold
overpriced BuyItNow stuff, the prices for used industrial related
things that actually sell, are tanking dramatically.

Here's one example.

I sold a 8 inch diameter steam pressure gauge this summer for $240 or
so. (to someone who operates a real steam engine railroad, no less)

Actually, I was wrong. I looked up my archives and found out that the
sale price on Jul 3, 2008, was $283.88, not $240.

i

Just now, I needed one, and won a supposedly very similar condition
steam pressure gauge, made of brass, 0-200 PSI, for just $31. The
gauge was perfectly well described, all the right keywords were in the
title, etc. This was not in any way any unusually lucky purchase. It
just shows that the market that was willing to pay $240 for a steam
gauge, can only pay $31. So whatever sorts of people who were buying
steam gauges before, do not have any money left.

I am observing the same things occur in other sorts of things. A 8
inch three jaw chuck, L0 mount, great condition, $50. It is a
little scary to see the extent of it.

What muddles this is that eBay changed its fee structure, and there is
a lot of stuff listed with Buy It Now, that is overpriced and creates
an impression of high prices, but it is a false impression.

The one implication is that if you stil have a job and money, and
space in your shop, it is a great time to buy used stuff like this
right on ebay.

The other implication is that if you go to liquidation auctions
infrequently, it is a good idea to recheck the prices that you used
to base your bids on, in order to not overbid.

Agree? Disagree?


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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On Feb 3, 10:05*am, cavelamb wrote:
What was it MacArthur called the President?

The Temporary Occupant of the White House?

Didn't MacArthur get fired for being an idiot?

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Feb 3, 10:05 am, cavelamb wrote:
What was it MacArthur called the President?

The Temporary Occupant of the White House?

Didn't MacArthur get fired for being an idiot?

TMT

Nope

cavelamb wrote:


But I didn't see any others standing up against that kind of use of the Army.

And if it comes to it today, there will be enough people who follow orders that
they will accomplish their mission - what ever the politicians in charge tell
them it is.

Be afraid, gunner.
Be very afraid.


I'm going to disagree. The current members of the military joined in bad times on their
own volition. They were not drafted so they are for the most part, living to an ideal of
what is right and proper.

I'll keep my trust in their keeping the faith,

Wes

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that cavelamb
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:01:48 -0600 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that cavelamb
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:32:06 -0600 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Gunner Asch wrote:
Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr
Behfel ist behfel, nein?

Godwin, Damit!

Sure you don't mean "God wins!"?

Not at the moment...
(although He usually does - it's that whole Supreme Being thing)

No, I meant Godwin...
As in

I saw a cartoon, have a copy somewhere, of Goring talking about
how it seemed impossible for Adolf to have gone more than fifteen
minutes into a conversation without mentioning Godwin. "It was like a
law. We called it 'Hitler's law'. "
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Feb 3, 6:17*pm, Wes wrote:
cavelamb wrote:

But I didn't see any others standing up against that kind of use of the Army.

And if it comes to it today, there will be enough people who follow orders that
they will accomplish their mission - what ever the politicians in charge tell
them it is.

Be afraid, gunner.
Be very afraid.

I'm going to disagree. *The current members of the military joined in bad times on their
own volition. *They were not drafted so they are for the most part, living to an ideal of
what is right and proper.

I'll keep my trust in their keeping the faith,

Wes

Remember that Bush violated his oath...

TMT

On 2009-02-03, Ignoramus32631 wrote:
On 2009-02-03, DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

The poorly described one closed a couple of hours before the one
with the wonderful description, and I opted to bid on that
poorly-described one as the bids were *already* significantly higher on
the wonderful one. IIRC, I got the poorly-described set for about three
hundred less than the wonderfully-described one, and was thankful that
the later one was drawing most of the attention of those who were
interested. I don't know at this point, but the wonderfully-described
one had the feel of a "Reliable Tools" auction of the period.

I really would have expected more competition for the
poorly-described set since there were two hours or so between them to
give people a second chance at the well-described set, but apparently
most were too dazzled by the description on the second set -- so I got
the first set for a very reasonable price. :-)

Some things sell for a lot less than identical things that are better
described or pictured. You told us a good story, I bought a well
working TIG welder for $10, etc.

But that is not what I wanted to point out.

The point that I was making, was that the steam gauge that sold for
$31 was NOT poorly described, it was well photographed and properly
titled and so on. And still it sold for 8 TIMES less than a very
similar gauge, sold by me last summer. So I was comparing apples to
apples.

Here they a

My gauge from last summer closed for $240:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

The gauge that I bought this month for $31:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250361252136

Hmm ... three things which could have affected the eBay price:

1) The range. The 200 PSI ones are perhaps less common than
the 400 PSI ones.

2) The white on black might be more collectible than the black
on white ones. (I would personally prefer that just for better
readability if I were in the market for one of that size.)

3) The fact that the one which you sold did not have a legend
on it "First Cooler" to make it less suitable in some other
application such are restoration where an incorrect legend
might make it far more unsuitable than one with no legend.

BTW I like your way of showing the size in the first photo. :-)

When I was selling my gauge last summer, I did quite a bit of
research. There is (was) a market for these gauges, mostly among
collectors or well off people who want to have a gauge like that on
the wall of their shop showing air pressure, etc. Some retired people
buy these gauges in poor condition, polish and resell, etc. It was a
real market.

These gauges are not unusual or rare items, but they were well sought
after. Apparently, not any more. The market for them disappeared.

Maybe not gone for long.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Ignoramus13011" wrote in message
...
I have had just a few observations of prices on things that I am
familiar with. And I think that outside of the realm of unsold
overpriced BuyItNow stuff, the prices for used industrial related
things that actually sell, are tanking dramatically.

Here's one example.

I sold a 8 inch diameter steam pressure gauge this summer for $240 or
so. (to someone who operates a real steam engine railroad, no less)

Just now, I needed one, and won a supposedly very similar condition
steam pressure gauge, made of brass, 0-200 PSI, for just $31. The
gauge was perfectly well described, all the right keywords were in the
title, etc. This was not in any way any unusually lucky purchase. It
just shows that the market that was willing to pay $240 for a steam
gauge, can only pay $31. So whatever sorts of people who were buying
steam gauges before, do not have any money left.

I am observing the same things occur in other sorts of things. A 8
inch three jaw chuck, L0 mount, great condition, $50. It is a
little scary to see the extent of it.

What muddles this is that eBay changed its fee structure, and there is
a lot of stuff listed with Buy It Now, that is overpriced and creates
an impression of high prices, but it is a false impression.

The one implication is that if you stil have a job and money, and
space in your shop, it is a great time to buy used stuff like this
right on ebay.

The other implication is that if you go to liquidation auctions
infrequently, it is a good idea to recheck the prices that you used
to base your bids on, in order to not overbid.

Agree? Disagree?


All markets fluctuate, it is the nature of markets. With less work there
may be more time on peoples hands to clear out there unused equipment or
they may need the bucks to make payroll until the customer that is already
60 days late comes through with payment.

When gas prices skyrocketed the used car market valued econoboxes more and
SUV's less.

As some firms go belly-up more equipment gets auctioned off and the prices
for used equipment goes down.

Situations always make deals.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:53:28 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that cavelamb
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:32:06 -0600 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Gunner Asch wrote:

Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?


Godwin, Damit!

Sure you don't mean "God wins!"?


pyotr


Nein...God ist taub.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:53:28 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:17:21 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:50:28 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:00:41 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:22:06 -0600, nick hull wrote:

In article ,
cavelamb wrote:

Good rant, Gunner, but it's not the Commie army I'm worried about
so much as out own...

Not much difference as long as the army follows a politician instead of
the Constitution ;(


Indeed.
Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution
Published: Jan 29, 2009
Author: Michele Chang
Post Date: 2009-01-29 10:38:14

Defense Robert Gates is extremely frustrated with orders that the
White House is contemplating. According to sources at the Pentagon,
including all branches of the armed forces, the Obama Administration may
break with a centuries-old tradition.

A spokesman for General James Cartwright, the Vice Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff, states that the Obama Administration wants to
have soldiers and officers pledge a loyalty oath directly to the office
of the President, and no longer to the Constitution.

"The oath to the Constitution is as old as the document itself." the
spokesman said, "At no time in American history, not even in the Civil
War, did the oath change or the subject of the oath differ. It has
always been to the Constitution."

The back-and-forth between the White House and the Defense
Department was expected as President George W. Bush left office.
President Obama has already signed orders to close Guantanamo and to
pull combat troops from Iraq. But, this, say many at the Defense
Department, goes to far.

"Technically, we can't talk about it before it becomes official
policy." the spokesman continued. "However, the Defense Department,
including the Secretary, will not take this laying down. Expect a fight
from the bureaucracy and the brass."

Sources at the White House had a different point of view. In a
circular distributed by White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, the
rationale for the change was made more clear.
"The President feels that the military has been too indoctrinated by
the old harbingers of hate: nationalism, racism, and classism. By
removing an oath to the American society, the soldiers are less likely
to commit atrocities like those at Abu Ghraib."

"We expect a lot of flak over this," ! the clas sified memo
continues. "But those that would be most against it are those looking
either for attention or control."

The time frame for the changes are unknown. However, it is more
likely that the changes will be made around the July 4th holiday, in
order to dampen any potential backlash. The difference in the oath will
actually only be slight. The main differences will be the new phrasing.
It is expected that the oath to the Constitution will be entirely phased
out within two years. "


Frankly I think this is bogus, but...it never hurts to look into it.


Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?

Ja. the problem is that in this country, there isn't the same
"reverence" put on oaths as their were in the old country. One of the
underplayed points of Valkyrie is that COL Claus Philipp Maria Schenk
Graf von Stauffenberg is of an old Aristocratic Family, and a deeply
Catholic one at that. They take such things seriously. Still do.
I'm not so sure about American Protestants :-)

tschus
pyotr

Eide sind nur Geräte....(sp?)....shrug. Least for the
lumpinproletariate.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:32:32 GMT, "Bill Marrs"
wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
om...
Regular Army! Not National Guard.
And if it comes to it today, there will be enough people who follow orders
that
they will accomplish their mission - what ever the politicians in charge
tell
them it is.

Be afraid, gunner.
Be very afraid.


Go he http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/gros...rventions.html

Scroll down and note how many times troops were deployed on US soil.

Whoever wrote that piece has a very stong anti-US stance and outlook.

"U.S. involvement in World War II (1941-45) was sparked by the surprise
attack on Pearl Harbor, and fear of an Axis invasion of North America.
Allied bombers attacked fascist military targets, but also fire-bombed
German and Japanese cities such as Dresden and Tokyo, party under the
assumption that destroying civilian neighborhoods would weaken the
resolve of the survivors and turn them against their regimes. Many
historians agree that fire- bombing's effect was precisely the
opposite--increasing Axis civilian support for homeland defense, and
discouraging potential coup attempts. The atomic bombing of Japan at the
end of the war was carried out without any kind of advance demonstration
or warning that may have prevented the deaths of hundreds of thousands
of innocent civilians."

Can you spot the bias?

Even the blind could. As well as the revisiionisms in that single
paragraph. The rest of the piece is rife with it.


"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:31:07 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:17:21 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Behfel ist behfel, nein?

Gunner


Nein!

Befehl ist befehl :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM


Ja, danke. Its been many years....shrug

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:48:06 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Feb 3, 10:05 am, cavelamb wrote:
What was it MacArthur called the President?

The Temporary Occupant of the White House?

Didn't MacArthur get fired for being an idiot?

TMT

Nope


He got fired for being correct...but politically incorrect. We paid the
price for the next 50 yrs.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:32:06 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?


Godwin, Damit!


"duty is duty" violates Godwin?

We could have mentioned the events occuring around Lieutenant Vladimir
Shneur, of the 9th Kiev Hussar Regiment in November, 1917 at Petrograd.

The end result was the same.

Pity.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:17:46 -0500, Wes wrote:

cavelamb wrote:


But I didn't see any others standing up against that kind of use of the Army.

And if it comes to it today, there will be enough people who follow orders that
they will accomplish their mission - what ever the politicians in charge tell
them it is.

Be afraid, gunner.
Be very afraid.


I'm going to disagree. The current members of the military joined in bad times on their
own volition. They were not drafted so they are for the most part, living to an ideal of
what is right and proper.

I'll keep my trust in their keeping the faith,

Wes


Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

Which is why the standard wisdom is that the Blue Beanies would need to
be involved before troops would be used against the populace. At which
point..conventional military forces would decide whom "enemies, foreign
and domestic" consist of. And take their toys and go home to wait for
the Blue Beanies.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On 2009-02-04, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-02-03, Ignoramus32631 wrote:
On 2009-02-03, DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

The poorly described one closed a couple of hours before the one
with the wonderful description, and I opted to bid on that
poorly-described one as the bids were *already* significantly higher on
the wonderful one. IIRC, I got the poorly-described set for about three
hundred less than the wonderfully-described one, and was thankful that
the later one was drawing most of the attention of those who were
interested. I don't know at this point, but the wonderfully-described
one had the feel of a "Reliable Tools" auction of the period.

I really would have expected more competition for the
poorly-described set since there were two hours or so between them to
give people a second chance at the well-described set, but apparently
most were too dazzled by the description on the second set -- so I got
the first set for a very reasonable price. :-)

Some things sell for a lot less than identical things that are better
described or pictured. You told us a good story, I bought a well
working TIG welder for $10, etc.

But that is not what I wanted to point out.

The point that I was making, was that the steam gauge that sold for
$31 was NOT poorly described, it was well photographed and properly
titled and so on. And still it sold for 8 TIMES less than a very
similar gauge, sold by me last summer. So I was comparing apples to
apples.

Here they a

My gauge from last summer closed for $240:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

The gauge that I bought this month for $31:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250361252136

Hmm ... three things which could have affected the eBay price:

1) The range. The 200 PSI ones are perhaps less common than
the 400 PSI ones.

I think that, if anything, 200 PSI gauges are more suitable for people
like me, who want to use them with regular shop compressed air. I
would venture to guess that this makes the majority of the actual
users of gauges. (not mere collectors).

Accidentally, the gauge that I sold on July 3, was bought by a guy
operating a real steam locomotive. He told me that he will keep it as
a spare for now. I just conversed with him yesterday about cleaning up
brass gauges.

2) The white on black might be more collectible than the black
on white ones. (I would personally prefer that just for better
readability if I were in the market for one of that size.)

I agree.

3) The fact that the one which you sold did not have a legend
on it "First Cooler" to make it less suitable in some other
application such are restoration where an incorrect legend
might make it far more unsuitable than one with no legend.

That could apply, as well. Still, looking at completed collectibles
with "steam gauge" shows prices that are rather lower than what I
used to see.

BTW I like your way of showing the size in the first photo. :-)

Thanks... This guy is very interested in everything treain related.

i

When I was selling my gauge last summer, I did quite a bit of
research. There is (was) a market for these gauges, mostly among
collectors or well off people who want to have a gauge like that on
the wall of their shop showing air pressure, etc. Some retired people
buy these gauges in poor condition, polish and resell, etc. It was a
real market.

These gauges are not unusual or rare items, but they were well sought
after. Apparently, not any more. The market for them disappeared.

Maybe not gone for long.

Enjoy,
DoN.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

DoN. Nichols wrote:

My gauge from last summer closed for $240:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis.../ebayhist.html

The gauge that I bought this month for $31:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=250361252136

Hmm ... three things which could have affected the eBay price:


How many people have their own rail road???

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:35:56 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:32:06 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?


Godwin, Damit!


"duty is duty" violates Godwin?

Some people seem unaware that "Behfel ist behfel!" is something
which goes back long before 1934. German militarism as a cliche only
dates to about the 1870s, but the Prussians had it down long before
then.
German thoroughgoingness is one reason some of the most productive
parts of the post WW2 economic landscape was Germany, be that the
capitalist west or the Marxist east.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:44:47 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :


Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

Which is why the standard wisdom is that the Blue Beanies would need to
be involved before troops would be used against the populace. At which
point..conventional military forces would decide whom "enemies, foreign
and domestic" consist of. And take their toys and go home to wait for
the Blue Beanies.

At which point we get decor according to Ly. As in Ug Ly.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:24:15 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?

Ja. the problem is that in this country, there isn't the same
"reverence" put on oaths as their were in the old country. One of the
underplayed points of Valkyrie is that COL Claus Philipp Maria Schenk
Graf von Stauffenberg is of an old Aristocratic Family, and a deeply
Catholic one at that. They take such things seriously. Still do.
I'm not so sure about American Protestants :-)

tschus
pyotr

Eide sind nur Geräte....(sp?)....shrug. Least for the
lumpinproletariate.

Scary though? That those who do take promises seriously, tend
also to join the military services, because the services are serious
about them too.

It has been interesting to read of the number of Hispanic
Americans who joined the USMC, because of the manly qualities of the
USMC. Honor, respect, duty, responsibility.

I suspect a number of "lumpenproles" have too much respect for
promises, to make ones they're not going to keep. :-) [Gordon's
explanation why he hadn't ever married.]

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Gunner Asch wrote:

Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

I well remember the Oath. I don't remember the un-Oathing at the end of my enlistment.
Maybe I missed the memo. Did you have an un-Oathing?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:34:42 -0600, Ignoramus13011
wrote:

I have had just a few observations of prices on things that I am
familiar with. And I think that outside of the realm of unsold
overpriced BuyItNow stuff, the prices for used industrial related
things that actually sell, are tanking dramatically.



Agree? Disagree?

I haven't been following machine related prices, but in late December
I talked to an antiques dealer who sells mostly on eBay and she said
things weren't moving. Quality items however still have a market she
noted. The prices may not have been at their highest, but they sold.

RWL

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:34:42 -0600, Ignoramus13011
wrote:

I have had just a few observations of prices on things that I am
familiar with. And I think that outside of the realm of unsold
overpriced BuyItNow stuff, the prices for used industrial related
things that actually sell, are tanking dramatically.



Agree? Disagree?

I haven't been following machine related prices, but in late December
I talked to an antiques dealer who sells mostly on eBay and she said
things weren't moving. Quality items however still have a market she
noted. The prices may not have been at their highest, but they sold.

RWL

From my experiences with ebay, which include being a buyer, and being a
PowerSeller for two years .........

I think that ebay has weakened with buyers who are buying with disposable
income. People are belt tightening, and not so many buyers are there.

Collectors are taking advantage now of lower prices, but then competition
between buyers who do have disposable income is happening.

People who just "need' "stuff" are still there, buying according to need,
and not spending a lot of time waiting for the right price.

Regular buyers are still there who are using their savvy to pick up bargains
by watching out for the obvious.

I was a buyer three years before being a seller on ebay. The first thing I
learned (the hard way) is that there will always be another along soon. Be
patient, and you will probably be able to buy what you want, and for what
you want to spend.

Steve

On Feb 2, 9:06*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message

m...



Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:22:29 -0600, "Elliot G"
wrote:

wrote in message
....
Try to find .308 Winchester brass on the internet.
The priced from 100 suppliers has doubled and is out of stock

No matter what city you are in in the USA, you cannot get Gold in your
hand at $50 over spot price.

AR15 rifles are all back ordered and jacked up in price.

On line gun suppliers cannot answer the phone, they are so busy
shipping.

Try squeezing you butt into a gun show at 8:00 a.m. when they used to
be mostly empty. They are jammed with crowds.

What does it all mean?
Enough people are frightened enough to buy up the military arms and
Gold.
I think a lot of this is just hype. Gun dealers and gun investors have
been touting the intent of Democrats to spool up the gun control issues,
and driving prices straight up ever since last spring or so. I
personally think the real estate industry does the same thing every time
the interest rate begin to climb.

The only problem is, the gun folks may very well be right.

The gun dealers only have to point at recent and current Democrat
legistlation and statements of intent by the Left.

When they themselves declare that *your guns and your liberty are up for
grabs....the gun dealers dont need to use Democrat Scare Tactics.

When the Communist army is spotted on the horizon, and headed your
way....the prudent man stockes up,and prepares.

Fortunately...most of us who actually have a time sense that goes back
before last Shrove Tuesday...have made those preps already.

Those that ignore history, are doomed.

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
*nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

Good rant, Gunner, but it's not the Commie army I'm worried about
so much as out own...

Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin' irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



So are liberal men wearing woman's underwear and driving hybrid cars.

On Feb 2, 11:32*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Feb 1, 11:09*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-



associates.us wrote:
On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:34:42 -0600, Ignoramus13011

wrote:
The one implication is that if you stil have a job and money, and
space in your shop, it is a great time to buy used stuff like this
right on ebay.

The other implication is that if you go to liquidation auctions
infrequently, it is a good idea to recheck the prices that you used
to base your bids on, in order to not overbid.

Agree? Disagree?

----------
Cash is king... *try to hang onto it.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Agreed...none of us here have seen a downturn like this one...none of
us.

TMT

There is no big downturn..yet.
But with all the money they are printing, there should be one.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 9:06 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message

m...



Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:22:29 -0600, "Elliot G"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Try to find .308 Winchester brass on the internet.
The priced from 100 suppliers has doubled and is out of stock

No matter what city you are in in the USA, you cannot get Gold in
your
hand at $50 over spot price.

AR15 rifles are all back ordered and jacked up in price.

On line gun suppliers cannot answer the phone, they are so busy
shipping.

Try squeezing you butt into a gun show at 8:00 a.m. when they used to
be mostly empty. They are jammed with crowds.

What does it all mean?
Enough people are frightened enough to buy up the military arms and
Gold.
I think a lot of this is just hype. Gun dealers and gun investors have
been touting the intent of Democrats to spool up the gun control
issues,
and driving prices straight up ever since last spring or so. I
personally think the real estate industry does the same thing every
time
the interest rate begin to climb.

The only problem is, the gun folks may very well be right.

The gun dealers only have to point at recent and current Democrat
legistlation and statements of intent by the Left.

When they themselves declare that your guns and your liberty are up for
grabs....the gun dealers dont need to use Democrat Scare Tactics.

When the Communist army is spotted on the horizon, and headed your
way....the prudent man stockes up,and prepares.

Fortunately...most of us who actually have a time sense that goes back
before last Shrove Tuesday...have made those preps already.

Those that ignore history, are doomed.

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

Good rant, Gunner, but it's not the Commie army I'm worried about
so much as out own...

Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin' irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress



So are liberal men wearing woman's underwear and driving hybrid cars.

I don't know, Clark. If you run into one, ask him what kind of underwear
he's wearing. If his eyes light up and he looks straight at you, take off.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Wes wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

I well remember the Oath. I don't remember the un-Oathing at the end of my enlistment.
Maybe I missed the memo. Did you have an un-Oathing?

Wes
--


nope

Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin' irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

So are liberal men wearing woman's underwear and driving hybrid cars.

I don't know, Clark. If you run into one, ask him what kind of underwear
he's wearing. If his eyes light up and he looks straight at you, take off.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Anyone who types, "The paranoid gun nutz" with his keyboard gets his
underwear as hand me downs from Nancy [500,000,000 jobs per month]
Peloci.

wrote in message
...


Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help
in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin'
irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in
Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

So are liberal men wearing woman's underwear and driving hybrid cars.

I don't know, Clark. If you run into one, ask him what kind of underwear
he's wearing. If his eyes light up and he looks straight at you, take
off.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Anyone who types, "The paranoid gun nutz" with his keyboard gets his
underwear as hand me downs from Nancy [500,000,000 jobs per month]
Peloci.

Another graduate of Braindead University, I see.

Listen, Clark. There are respectable and sane gun owners, like you and me
(I'm hoping I'm right about you...), and there are paranoid gun nutz. Having
been a volunteer lobbyist for my state's affiliate of the NRA (The Coalition
of New Jersey Sportsmen), and having written editorials and PR for the same,
as well as serving as a delegate to my county Republican convention on
urging from NRA to help nominate a pro-gun candidate for Governor, as well
as having been a DCM range officer and a rifle instructor with NRA and New
York state certification, and having eight Sharpshooter bars earned as a kid
g, I'm quite familiar with both. Watch out for the ones who wear digger
hats on public ranges, for example.

The ones who are buying trunkfuls of guns and ammo right now clearly are
paranoid. Most of them probably are a little nutz -- an opinion based on
real-world exposure, not on psychological testing. It's like Jesse Jackson
saying that running into a gang of black kids on a dark street worries him
more than if they were white kids.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few gun nutz among the responsible gun
owners. They're like a pestilence on the houses of you and me. But they
*are* the ones who probably will do most to boost spending in the hunting
and fishing department at Wal-Mart.

So, as I said to Richard, don't tell them that you think they may be
overreacting. They could be doing the economy some good. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Feb 5, 1:08*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...





Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help
in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin'
irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in
Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

So are liberal men wearing woman's underwear and driving hybrid cars.

I don't know, Clark. If you run into one, ask him what kind of underwear
he's wearing. If his eyes light up and he looks straight at you, take
off.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Anyone who types, "The paranoid gun nutz" with his keyboard gets his
underwear as hand me downs from Nancy [500,000,000 jobs per month]
Peloci.

Another graduate of Braindead University, I see.

Listen, Clark. There are respectable and sane gun owners, like you and me
(I'm hoping I'm right about you...), and there are paranoid gun nutz. Having
been a volunteer lobbyist for my state's affiliate of the NRA (The Coalition
of New Jersey Sportsmen), and having written editorials and PR for the same,
as well as serving as a delegate to my county Republican convention on
urging from NRA to help nominate a pro-gun candidate for Governor, as well
as having been a DCM range officer and a rifle instructor with NRA and New
York state certification, and having eight Sharpshooter bars earned as a kid
g, I'm quite familiar with both. Watch out for the ones who wear digger
hats on public ranges, for example.

The ones who are buying trunkfuls of guns and ammo right now clearly are
paranoid. Most of them probably are a little nutz -- an opinion based on
real-world exposure, not on psychological testing. It's like Jesse Jackson
saying that running into a gang of black kids on a dark street worries him
more than if they were white kids.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few gun nutz among the responsible gun
owners. They're like a pestilence on the houses of you and me. But they
*are* the ones who probably will do most to boost spending in the hunting
and fishing department at Wal-Mart.

So, as I said to Richard, don't tell them that you think they may be
overreacting. They could be doing the economy some good. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Well pardon me, I thought you were as liberal as Hitler.

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin' irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

Do a timeline from 1967 to today. What has changed? Paranoid has a definition and based
on how fast the 2nd Amendment has eroded, we are not nutz or paranoid.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Shhh! Don't tell them. The paranoid gun nutz are going to be a big help in
spending us out of this recession. They'll buy wall-to-wall shootin' irons
and a basement full of ammo. Well, not actually a *basement*, in Gunner's
case, but you get the idea. d8-)

Do a timeline from 1967 to today. What has changed? Paranoid has a
definition and based
on how fast the 2nd Amendment has eroded, we are not nutz or paranoid.

Wes

Did you just go out and stock up on AR15's and a trunkful of ammo? If you
followed that discussion, those are the people who were being talked about.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Did you just go out and stock up on AR15's and a trunkful of ammo? If you
followed that discussion, those are the people who were being talked about.

Well I'd like an AR15, likely a national match model legal for high power competition.
Haven't figured what twist yet.

I still have powder, brass and primers from the Clinton days. Long shelf life, doing
better than my 401K.

I was ready to buy an AR back in the 90's but the military looking rifle ban (something
that was a direct assault on the Constitution) came along and ran the price up.

Years later, after getting things back together after a restart of my career, I was at the
point where I was going to buy my first black rifle but the Obama thing came along.
Another rise in prices since the gun community doesn't trust him. Look at the man ready
to succeed him, Joe Bidden, anyone that supports gun rights has to be worried about that.

I have enough guns to start a local militia and other than the wars they were in, never
hurt anyone.

When you use the term gun nutz it implies much. Like gun enthusiasts are 'disturbed'. A
gun is a machine. A piece of history. An example of state of the art metalworking at the
time produced. It is a check against an oppressive government, something that we have not
excercised often which is proof that we are not nutz.

Another offensive term is 'arsenal'. I could have 3000 guns but if I get into a tiff with
the government 2997 or more will have little use at that moment. 10,000 rounds of ammo
(pikers) doesn't mean much either. Start popping a few off at people and that activity
will end shortly. Few of us live in bunkers. Siding, osb, insullation and drywall will
not stop a well directed .308 .

Your trip on a roadway imposes more danger to your life than all the gun owners in this
country. Keep this in perspective. You are a researcher, show me that my closing
statement is wrong with cites.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
news
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Did you just go out and stock up on AR15's and a trunkful of ammo? If you
followed that discussion, those are the people who were being talked
about.

Well I'd like an AR15, likely a national match model legal for high power
competition.
Haven't figured what twist yet.

I still have powder, brass and primers from the Clinton days. Long shelf
life, doing
better than my 401K.

I was ready to buy an AR back in the 90's but the military looking rifle
ban (something
that was a direct assault on the Constitution) came along and ran the
price up.

Years later, after getting things back together after a restart of my
career, I was at the
point where I was going to buy my first black rifle but the Obama thing
came along.
Another rise in prices since the gun community doesn't trust him. Look at
the man ready
to succeed him, Joe Bidden, anyone that supports gun rights has to be
worried about that.

I have enough guns to start a local militia and other than the wars they
were in, never
hurt anyone.

When you use the term gun nutz it implies much. Like gun enthusiasts are
'disturbed'. A
gun is a machine. A piece of history. An example of state of the art
metalworking at the
time produced. It is a check against an oppressive government, something
that we have not
excercised often which is proof that we are not nutz.

Another offensive term is 'arsenal'. I could have 3000 guns but if I get
into a tiff with
the government 2997 or more will have little use at that moment. 10,000
rounds of ammo
(pikers) doesn't mean much either. Start popping a few off at people and
that activity
will end shortly. Few of us live in bunkers. Siding, osb, insullation
and drywall will
not stop a well directed .308 .

Your trip on a roadway imposes more danger to your life than all the gun
owners in this
country. Keep this in perspective. You are a researcher, show me that my
closing
statement is wrong with cites.

Wes

Wes, this is what I was responding to:

============================================
AR15 rifles are all back ordered and jacked up in price.

On line gun suppliers cannot answer the phone, they are so busy
shipping.

Try squeezing you butt into a gun show at 8:00 a.m. when they used to
be mostly empty. They are jammed with crowds.

What does it all mean?
Enough people are frightened enough to buy up the military arms and
Gold.

============================================

Which got this response:

============================================

The gun dealers only have to point at recent and current Democrat
legistlation and statements of intent by the Left.

When they themselves declare that your guns and your liberty are up for
grabs....the gun dealers dont need to use Democrat Scare Tactics.

When the Communist army is spotted on the horizon, and headed your
way....the prudent man stockes up,and prepares.
============================================

Those are the paranoid gun nutz at work. And I made clear that they were all
I was talking about.

As for your remark "When you use the term gun nutz it implies much. Like
gun enthusiasts are 'disturbed'," it happens that some of them are. And the
number of "normal" people you see at gun shows seems to be declining in
favor of some pretty strange characters. Hang around the Paladin Press booth
at a gun show and you'll see quite a few of them hanging around.

It's too bad, but that's how it is. They've always been there but they're
more noticeable now, or maybe I'm more aware of them.

Of course, I'm not talking about you and me. d8-) The responsible gun owners
doubtless are in the large majority, but the nutz attract the attention.
And, as I said, they may be helping out the economy as we speak...

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:51:19 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:35:56 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:32:06 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Sounds like a fictional updating of the events of Aug 2, 1934,
when the German military was required to take an oath of loyalty to
Adolf Hitler, personally, instead of to the Government or Nation.
(That was a contributing factor to why Valkyrie wasn't implemented
until 1944 - it took that long for people who took their oaths
seriously to overcome their reluctance.)

Anyway, I doubt that such a thing would occur here. On the other
hand, I'm sure a lot of Germans in 1934 never expected things to go
the way they eventually did.

Bozhimoi.


pyotr

Behfel ist behfel, nein?


Godwin, Damit!


"duty is duty" violates Godwin?

Some people seem unaware that "Behfel ist behfel!" is something
which goes back long before 1934. German militarism as a cliche only
dates to about the 1870s, but the Prussians had it down long before
then.


Indeed. The Prussian title "von" really ment something.


German thoroughgoingness is one reason some of the most productive
parts of the post WW2 economic landscape was Germany, be that the
capitalist west or the Marxist east.


tschus
pyotr

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:57:33 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Wes wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

I well remember the Oath. I don't remember the un-Oathing at the end of my enlistment.
Maybe I missed the memo. Did you have an un-Oathing?

Wes
--


nope


I seemed to have missed it as well.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Sat, 07 Feb 2009 00:53:57 -0800
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:57:33 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Wes wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Indeed...and they are indeed well aware what the Oath consists of..and
what they are swearing to.

I well remember the Oath. I don't remember the un-Oathing at the end of my enlistment.
Maybe I missed the memo. Did you have an un-Oathing?

Wes

nope


I seemed to have missed it as well.

It was all part of that secret ritual which made you no resistant
to being subjected to the Emanations of Guns without having them Take
Over Your Mind!

Or it could be that the Democrats are being dense enough to stop
tachyon-neutrinos. They don't take their oaths seriously, so why
should they expect you to?


pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!