I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

On Dec 1, 8:48 am, stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

On the Briggs starters I have played with the plastic pinion on the
starter is on a plastic helical thread and moves forward to engage the
flywheel ring gear, spring pressure keeps the pinion away from the
flywheel when the engine is running.

CarlBoyd

On Dec 1, 8:17*am, Carl wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:48 am, stryped wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

On the Briggs starters I have played with the plastic pinion on the
starter is on a plastic helical thread and moves forward to engage the
flywheel ring gear, spring pressure keeps the pinion away from the
flywheel when the engine is running.

CarlBoyd

SO how would i fix this?

stryped wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Check out " Bendix starter" .
It should move axialy when spun up.
...lew...

Lew Hartswick wrote:
stryped wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Check out " Bendix starter" .
It should move axialy when spun up.
...lew...

The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs
to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite.
Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft
and pinion. Then put it together and test it.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

On Dec 1, 9:18*am, "Steve W." wrote:
Lew Hartswick wrote:
stryped wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Check out *" Bendix starter" .
It should move axialy when spun up.
* *...lew...

The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs
to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite.
Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft
and pinion. Then put it together and test it.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel. What
exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the
gear on it?

stryped fired this volley in news:23518acd-
:
I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel.
What
exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the
gear on it?


C'mon, Stryped. Do some thinking for yourself. Check out the term
you were given, and get some drawings in hand to understand the (dead
simple) mechanism.

Despite the fact that you can manually move the pinion, that may not
mean it's free enough to do it on its own. The pinion on a Bendix
starter must move up the helix by its own inertia when the motor
starts (rapidly). If the motor starts "soft", or there's ANY stiction
between pinion and shaft, it won't make it far enough up to engage the
ring gear.

LLoyd

On Dec 1, 10:52*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
stryped fired this volley in news:23518acd-
:

I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel.
What
exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the
gear on it?

************************************************** *************************************
C'mon, Stryped. *Do some thinking for yourself. *Check out the term
you were given, and get some drawings in hand to understand the (dead
simple) mechanism.
************************************************** *************************************

Despite the fact that you can manually move the pinion, that may not
mean it's free enough to do it on its own. *The pinion on a Bendix
starter must move up the helix by its own inertia when the motor
starts (rapidly). *If the motor starts "soft", or there's ANY stiction
between pinion and shaft, it won't make it far enough up to engage the
ring gear.

LLoyd

The tapped holes for the starter in a Tecumseh crankcase are shallow
and easily stripped. See ifhe starter is loose or crooked.

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

See
http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm

The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. I had
the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old Tecumseh SnowKing. A
bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up.

On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped

wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm

The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had
the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A
bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. *

Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart?

(By the way the mounting holes are not stirpped).

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped

wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm

The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had
the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A
bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. *

Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart?

I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter
from the engine. I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the
mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and
it was working freely. When you push the button, the pinion should
move axially against the spring.

On Dec 1, 7:48*am, stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Well you see all starters have squirrels in them.

And when you push the starter button you are prodding the squirrel
into action on his little treadmill which in turn rotates the engine.

Obviously your squirrel is missing in action....did you find any
little bones in the starter?

;)

It sounds like the pinion gear has not been able to move up to the
flywheel..a common problem.

Try cleaning it.

Also the starter needs to have adequate torque to move the pinion...a
starter with subpar performance won't have the "snap" to move the
pinion in the time frame it needs to be engaged.

TMT

On Dec 1, 1:11*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped





wrote:
On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped

wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm

The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had
the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A
bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. *

Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart?

I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter
from the engine. * I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the
mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and
it was working freely. *When you push the button, the pinion should
move axially against the spring.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf

Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and
lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it
has not worked in 20 years.

stryped wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:11 pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped





wrote:
On Dec 1, 12:04 pm, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped

wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It
is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I
could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed
that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I
took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the
flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The
problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or
more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is
the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when
voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem
be?

Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm

The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. I had
the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old Tecumseh
SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up.

Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart?

I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter
from the engine. I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the
mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and
it was working freely. When you push the button, the pinion should
move axially against the spring.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf

Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and
lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it
has not worked in 20 years.

Check the pic in the lower left hand corner , the gear (overrunning clutch)
should slide freely on the spiral splines on the shaft . If not , remove
whatever you need to to get at that section - don't lose the spring or
circlip ...
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

stryped fired this volley in
:


Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and
lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet
it
has not worked in 20 years.


Stryped, maybe it's just me who feels this way, but I'm betting not:
Why don't you just engage in a little "informative destruction", and
take the damned thing apart?

We can't fix it for you over the internet. You can't learn anything
about the mechanism from our posts that hasn't already been posted.

Are you too lazy, or just too afraid to work on something you might
fix? If you break it, you replace it. If you don't, you'll probably
have fixed it by the time it's back together.

Just be glad you don't have one of the Teh "starterator" rigs. You'd
be clear up **** creek having us try to describe how that thing works.

LLoyd

stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?


I knew someone who drove an older vehicle a state away and "had starter troubles" while
they were out there. Since the wife worked at an auto parts place they decided to wait
till they got back to NC to fix the starter. On the way back they'd always stop on a hill
as the vehicle was straight drive and easily started when rolled.

I went over as they were installing, uninstalling and testing the third or fourth starter.
It would always work on the ground but not on the vehicle. I think they were using
jumper cables to test it on the ground. I told him to clean his battery cables and then
put either one of them back on the car and try it again. It was only dirty battery cables.

You case does not sound like this same thing, but thought I'd pass it along. Very often
it is something far more simple than suspectd. A simple search for starter bendix turned
up the following from Gil's Garage:

"A problem you do not need unless you are at home with the car in the garage is to have
the starter bendix malfunction. When the ignition switch is placed in the start position
the starter spins at a high rate of speed, centrifugal force moves the spring loaded
bendix forward and engages the fly wheel teeth which turns the engine to initiate the start.

Usually the first indication of a malfunction is when you attempt to start the engine, the
starter spins with no load and sounds like an electric motor running (which it is). When
this happens the bendix spring or retainer washer on the end has usually broken.

I am not aware of any type of preventive maintenance for the bendix.I recommend changing
the it if the starter is replaced and avoid if possible accidentally engaging the starter
with the engine running. I also recommend carrying a spare when on a trip. The basic
FoMoCo part number is 11350 and is priced at about $35.00 at most parts dealers.

Gil"

Al Patrick fired this volley in
netofbeaufortcounty:

, centrifugal force moves the spring loaded
bendix forward and engages the fly wheel teeth which turns the
engine
to initiate the start.

And of course, just like "Mythbusters", Gil's Garage was sometimes
wrong.

It is not centrifugal force, but the inertia of the pinion that keeps
it from spinning, while the shaft with helical groove spins under it,
propelling it toward the ring gear.

LLoyd

In article , "Steve W."
wrote:

The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs
to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite.
Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft
and pinion. Then put it together and test it.

I second the clean and graphite only. As a temp fix I could use a small
wooden stick to hold the pinion UP against the gear (it was working
against gravity and dirt) but I had to make a new stick since the
starter would throw it away when I cranked it. Finally got smart enough
to use graphite so it had almost no friction and would not attract dirt,
has been working beautifully since

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

(clip) centrifugal force moves the spring loaded
bendix forward (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Argh! One of my pet peeves is calling something centrifugal force when it
ain't. It is inertia mthat causes the pinion not to rotate while the
starter is coming up to speed. This causes it to screw its way toward the
ring gear.

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?
Inertia causes it to "wind" up the worm gear against spring tension
to engage. Try PB Blater and a bit of "gentle persuasion" to see if
you can get it to move. If not the circlip on the end comes off and
you get out the heavy guns to remove it. I've had PB blater free them
up very often - sometimes takes a few days of twice-daily
re-application.

Lots of other good products too, but do NOT use WD40, and do NOT use
heat. In many cases the helix is plastic.

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:36:49 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

On Dec 1, 9:18Â*am, "Steve W." wrote:
Lew Hartswick wrote:
stryped wrote:

I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could
always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth
were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart,
all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I
connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be
that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel
gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the
starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage
the teeth? What could this problem be?

Check out Â*" Bendix starter" .
It should move axialy when spun up.
Â* Â*...lew...

The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs
to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite.
Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft
and pinion. Then put it together and test it.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel. What
exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the
gear on it?
You are not, by chance, spinning it backwards? If a 120 volt starter
that's not an issue. If 12 volts it WILL though you off track.

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:19:31 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:


Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24:
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf

Looks just like mine.

Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and
lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it
has not worked in 20 years.

I didn't have to remove the dust cap to lube the helix. Don't know how
badly corroded yours might be.

Leo Lichtman wrote:

(clip) centrifugal force moves the spring loaded
bendix forward (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Argh! One of my pet peeves is calling something centrifugal force when it
ain't. It is inertia mthat causes the pinion not to rotate while the
starter is coming up to speed. This causes it to screw its way toward the
ring gear.


Are you saying his starter has E/D problems?


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

Update:

Hey,

I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one
question though.

How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a
tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being
perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never
doen so before but I don’t have the measuring equipment to check those
two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to
clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it
looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I
cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the
connecting rod?

I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a
tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same
time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing
blow up the first time I used it.

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:51:32 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:


Update:

Hey,

I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one
question though.

How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a
tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being
perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never
doen so before but I dont have the measuring equipment to check those
two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to
clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it
looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I
cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the
connecting rod?

I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a
tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same
time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing
blow up the first time I used it.


Any aluminum fused to the crankshaft can be removed with household
Lye. The rod bearing is part of the rod - get a new one. The
aluminum on the crank is from partial siezure of the bearing.

Deglaze the cyl and put in new rings - since you are putting in a new
rod, put in a new piston while you are at it.