"How does a starter work" question.
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is
electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 8:48 am, stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? On the Briggs starters I have played with the plastic pinion on the starter is on a plastic helical thread and moves forward to engage the flywheel ring gear, spring pressure keeps the pinion away from the flywheel when the engine is running. CarlBoyd |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 8:17*am, Carl wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:48 am, stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? On the Briggs starters I have played with the plastic pinion on the starter is on a plastic helical thread and moves forward to engage the flywheel ring gear, spring pressure keeps the pinion away from the flywheel when the engine is running. CarlBoyd SO how would i fix this? |
"How does a starter work" question.
stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Check out " Bendix starter" . It should move axialy when spun up. ...lew... |
"How does a starter work" question.
Lew Hartswick wrote:
stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Check out " Bendix starter" . It should move axialy when spun up. ...lew... The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite. Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft and pinion. Then put it together and test it. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 9:18*am, "Steve W." wrote:
Lew Hartswick wrote: stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Check out *" Bendix starter" . It should move axialy when spun up. * *...lew... The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite. Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft and pinion. Then put it together and test it. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel. What exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the gear on it? |
"How does a starter work" question.
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"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 10:52*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: stryped fired this volley in news:23518acd- : I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel. What exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the gear on it? ************************************************** ************************************* C'mon, Stryped. *Do some thinking for yourself. *Check out the term you were given, and get some drawings in hand to understand the (dead simple) mechanism. ************************************************** ************************************* Despite the fact that you can manually move the pinion, that may not mean it's free enough to do it on its own. *The pinion on a Bendix starter must move up the helix by its own inertia when the motor starts (rapidly). *If the motor starts "soft", or there's ANY stiction between pinion and shaft, it won't make it far enough up to engage the ring gear. LLoyd The tapped holes for the starter in a Tecumseh crankcase are shallow and easily stripped. See ifhe starter is loose or crooked. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? See http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. I had the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old Tecumseh SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. * Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart? (By the way the mounting holes are not stirpped). |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. * Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart? I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter from the engine. I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and it was working freely. When you push the button, the pinion should move axially against the spring. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 7:48*am, stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Well you see all starters have squirrels in them. And when you push the starter button you are prodding the squirrel into action on his little treadmill which in turn rotates the engine. Obviously your squirrel is missing in action....did you find any little bones in the starter? ;) It sounds like the pinion gear has not been able to move up to the flywheel..a common problem. Try cleaning it. Also the starter needs to have adequate torque to move the pinion...a starter with subpar performance won't have the "snap" to move the pinion in the time frame it needs to be engaged. TMT |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Dec 1, 1:11*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: On Dec 1, 12:04*pm, Don Foreman wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. *I had the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old *Tecumseh SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. * Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart? I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter from the engine. * I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and it was working freely. *When you push the button, the pinion should move axially against the spring.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24: http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it has not worked in 20 years. |
"How does a starter work" question.
stryped wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:11 pm, Don Foreman wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:52:20 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: On Dec 1, 12:04 pm, Don Foreman wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Seehttp://www.indiacar.com/infobank/battery1_od.htm The bendix drive won't engage if it is at all dirty or rusty. I had the same problem last Saturday on my 20-year-old Tecumseh SnowKing. A bit of Tri-Flo fixed it right up. Was it hard to take apart or did you have to take it apart? I didn't need to disassemble anything beyond dismounting the starter from the engine. I just applied some Tri-Flo and worked the mechanism back and forth until minor rust spots were knocked off and it was working freely. When you push the button, the pinion should move axially against the spring.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24: http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it has not worked in 20 years. Check the pic in the lower left hand corner , the gear (overrunning clutch) should slide freely on the spiral splines on the shaft . If not , remove whatever you need to to get at that section - don't lose the spring or circlip ... -- Snag sometimes ya gotta shovel manure to pay the bills |
"How does a starter work" question.
stryped fired this volley in
: Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it has not worked in 20 years. Stryped, maybe it's just me who feels this way, but I'm betting not: Why don't you just engage in a little "informative destruction", and take the damned thing apart? We can't fix it for you over the internet. You can't learn anything about the mechanism from our posts that hasn't already been posted. Are you too lazy, or just too afraid to work on something you might fix? If you break it, you replace it. If you don't, you'll probably have fixed it by the time it's back together. Just be glad you don't have one of the Teh "starterator" rigs. You'd be clear up **** creek having us try to describe how that thing works. LLoyd |
"How does a starter work" question.
stryped wrote:
I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? I knew someone who drove an older vehicle a state away and "had starter troubles" while they were out there. Since the wife worked at an auto parts place they decided to wait till they got back to NC to fix the starter. On the way back they'd always stop on a hill as the vehicle was straight drive and easily started when rolled. I went over as they were installing, uninstalling and testing the third or fourth starter. It would always work on the ground but not on the vehicle. I think they were using jumper cables to test it on the ground. I told him to clean his battery cables and then put either one of them back on the car and try it again. It was only dirty battery cables. You case does not sound like this same thing, but thought I'd pass it along. Very often it is something far more simple than suspectd. A simple search for starter bendix turned up the following from Gil's Garage: "A problem you do not need unless you are at home with the car in the garage is to have the starter bendix malfunction. When the ignition switch is placed in the start position the starter spins at a high rate of speed, centrifugal force moves the spring loaded bendix forward and engages the fly wheel teeth which turns the engine to initiate the start. Usually the first indication of a malfunction is when you attempt to start the engine, the starter spins with no load and sounds like an electric motor running (which it is). When this happens the bendix spring or retainer washer on the end has usually broken. I am not aware of any type of preventive maintenance for the bendix.I recommend changing the it if the starter is replaced and avoid if possible accidentally engaging the starter with the engine running. I also recommend carrying a spare when on a trip. The basic FoMoCo part number is 11350 and is priced at about $35.00 at most parts dealers. Gil" |
"How does a starter work" question.
Al Patrick fired this volley in
netofbeaufortcounty: , centrifugal force moves the spring loaded bendix forward and engages the fly wheel teeth which turns the engine to initiate the start. And of course, just like "Mythbusters", Gil's Garage was sometimes wrong. It is not centrifugal force, but the inertia of the pinion that keeps it from spinning, while the shaft with helical groove spins under it, propelling it toward the ring gear. LLoyd |
"How does a starter work" question.
In article , "Steve W."
wrote: The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite. Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft and pinion. Then put it together and test it. I second the clean and graphite only. As a temp fix I could use a small wooden stick to hold the pinion UP against the gear (it was working against gravity and dirt) but I had to make a new stick since the starter would throw it away when I cranked it. Finally got smart enough to use graphite so it had almost no friction and would not attract dirt, has been working beautifully since ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
"How does a starter work" question.
(clip) centrifugal force moves the spring loaded bendix forward (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Argh! One of my pet peeves is calling something centrifugal force when it ain't. It is inertia mthat causes the pinion not to rotate while the starter is coming up to speed. This causes it to screw its way toward the ring gear. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:48:09 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Inertia causes it to "wind" up the worm gear against spring tension to engage. Try PB Blater and a bit of "gentle persuasion" to see if you can get it to move. If not the circlip on the end comes off and you get out the heavy guns to remove it. I've had PB blater free them up very often - sometimes takes a few days of twice-daily re-application. Lots of other good products too, but do NOT use WD40, and do NOT use heat. In many cases the helix is plastic. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:36:49 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: On Dec 1, 9:18Â*am, "Steve W." wrote: Lew Hartswick wrote: stryped wrote: I took that old techmseh apart his weekend. I had a question. It is electric start and has never worked that I can remember. I could always hear it spin when we tried to use it and assumed that teeth were missing on the flywheel. But this wekend when I took it apart, all the teeth were on both the pinion gear and the flywheel. When I connected the starter to voltage, it spun. The problem seems to be that the pinion gear is about half an inch or more from the flywheel gear and the two never come in contact. Is the pinion gear on the starter supposed to "move forward" when voltage is supplied to engage the teeth? What could this problem be? Check out Â*" Bendix starter" . It should move axialy when spun up. Â* Â*...lew... The common reason for the pinion to stick is dirt/oil. The shaft needs to be CLEAN. No lube unless it's dry graphite. Since the motor turns I would disassemble the bendix and clean the shaft and pinion. Then put it together and test it. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I can turn the gear by hand as well as up to engage the flywheel. What exactly do you mean by "Bendix" Is that the shaft assembly with the gear on it? You are not, by chance, spinning it backwards? If a 120 volt starter that's not an issue. If 12 volts it WILL though you off track. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:19:31 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: Here is a link to my starter, it is on page 24: http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/...nformation.pdf Looks just like mine. Do I just remove the dust cap that is ahead of the pinion gear and lube that? I have a feelign it wont be just that easy to fix. I bet it has not worked in 20 years. I didn't have to remove the dust cap to lube the helix. Don't know how badly corroded yours might be. |
"How does a starter work" question.
Leo Lichtman wrote: (clip) centrifugal force moves the spring loaded bendix forward (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Argh! One of my pet peeves is calling something centrifugal force when it ain't. It is inertia mthat causes the pinion not to rotate while the starter is coming up to speed. This causes it to screw its way toward the ring gear. Are you saying his starter has E/D problems? -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
"How does a starter work" question.
Update: Hey, I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one question though. How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never doen so before but I don’t have the measuring equipment to check those two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the connecting rod? I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing blow up the first time I used it. |
"How does a starter work" question.
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:51:32 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote: Update: Hey, I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one question though. How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never doen so before but I dont have the measuring equipment to check those two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the connecting rod? I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing blow up the first time I used it. Any aluminum fused to the crankshaft can be removed with household Lye. The rod bearing is part of the rod - get a new one. The aluminum on the crank is from partial siezure of the bearing. Deglaze the cyl and put in new rings - since you are putting in a new rod, put in a new piston while you are at it. |
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