I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank. I'm currently planning on running
it through an automotive air conditioning evaporator core and then into
something similar to what I've found on the web called a "franzinator" which
separates the water from the air by giving the air flow a sharp turn after
leaving a small pipe into a larger pipe. I've got a blower for the core,
but haven't actually put it all together just yet. Time and budget
constraints....
The franzinator works by creating a pressure drop and a sharp turn. The
pressure drop cools the air and the sharp turn flings the water away, where
it falls down, and as the air flow going up is slower in the larger pipe,
each component goes their separate ways.
I'm sure that the evaporator will reduce the air temperature
significantly, and there will also be a temperature drop in the franzinator.
Is there a way I can figure out if there will be a freezing problem, or am I
overthinking this issue, which happens all the time?
There's not a whole lot on the web about this sort of arrangement,
least not the combination I have in mind, so I wanted to see if anyone has
any experience with this sort of thing or has used either part of this
system, and if so, how it worked for you.

"Carl McIver" wrote in message
m...
I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank.

you might find that pressure drop through your "frazinator" is a problem


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Carl McIver writes:

I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank.

Even if you intercool and remove any liquid water, the compressed air is
still warmer than ambient and at 100 percent relative humidity. As it
cools down the line it condenses more liquid water. Don't confuse "wet"
with "moist". One is liquid, one is vapor. One you can mechanically
filter, the other you can't.

The only way to make dry air is with a phase-change heat transfer, such as
a refrigerated dryer, ice bath, or regenerated dessicant.

On 2008-06-19, Carl McIver wrote:
I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank. I'm currently planning on running
it through an automotive air conditioning evaporator core and then into
something similar to what I've found on the web called a "franzinator" which
separates the water from the air by giving the air flow a sharp turn after
leaving a small pipe into a larger pipe. I've got a blower for the core,
but haven't actually put it all together just yet. Time and budget
constraints....
The franzinator works by creating a pressure drop and a sharp turn. The
pressure drop cools the air and the sharp turn flings the water away, where
it falls down, and as the air flow going up is slower in the larger pipe,
each component goes their separate ways.
I'm sure that the evaporator will reduce the air temperature
significantly, and there will also be a temperature drop in the franzinator.
Is there a way I can figure out if there will be a freezing problem, or am I
overthinking this issue, which happens all the time?
There's not a whole lot on the web about this sort of arrangement,
least not the combination I have in mind, so I wanted to see if anyone has
any experience with this sort of thing or has used either part of this
system, and if so, how it worked for you.



Simply widening of the pipe, does not necessarily create a pressure
drop of significance. That's a flaw in your reasoning. But even
without it, cooling compressed air to ambient will probably
precipitate some moisture, so your plan is solid. Just use a moisture
separator (filter) with a drain.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:19:14 -0700, "Carl McIver"
wrote:

I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank. I'm currently planning on running
it through an automotive air conditioning evaporator core and then into
something similar to what I've found on the web called a "franzinator" which
separates the water from the air by giving the air flow a sharp turn after
leaving a small pipe into a larger pipe.

....

The franzinator works by creating a pressure drop and a sharp turn.

....

Is there a way I can figure out if there will be a freezing problem, or am I
overthinking this issue, which happens all the time?

Part of your thinking should be directed to how expensive it'll be to
dry air with this "franzinator" thing, in dollars or air output, if
either is important to you.

--
Ned Simmons

On Jun 20, 4:15*am, Ignoramus7021
wrote:
On 2008-06-19, Carl McIver wrote:





* * I've been giving a good bit of thought about how to separate the water
before it gets into my compressor tank. *I'm currently planning on running
it through an automotive air conditioning evaporator core and then into
something similar to what I've found on the web called a "franzinator" which
separates the water from the air by giving the air flow a sharp turn after
leaving a small pipe into a larger pipe. *I've got a blower for the core,
but haven't actually put it all together just yet. *Time and budget
constraints....
* * The franzinator works by creating a pressure drop and a sharp turn. *The
pressure drop cools the air and the sharp turn flings the water away, where
it falls down, and as the air flow going up is slower in the larger pipe,
each component goes their separate ways.
* * *I'm sure that the evaporator will reduce the air temperature
significantly, and there will also be a temperature drop in the franzinator.
Is there a way I can figure out if there will be a freezing problem, or am I
overthinking this issue, which happens all the time?
* * *There's not a whole lot on the web about this sort of arrangement,
least not the combination I have in mind, so I wanted to see if anyone has
any experience with this sort of thing or has used either part of this
system, and if so, how it worked for you.

Simply widening of the pipe, does not necessarily create a pressure
drop of significance. That's a flaw in your reasoning. But even
without it, cooling compressed air to ambient will probably
precipitate some moisture, so your plan is solid. Just use a moisture
separator (filter) with a drain.

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have a filter the output of the tank, for sure. I have a thing
about rust inside a pressure vessel. I was sure that the idea would
work, but wasn't sure how well. Neither item by itself would remove
the moisture, and I have most of the materials floating around the
house. Plus this is a fun little project for me; I just wanted to
make sure it would be worth the effort. I figure that when the tank
is full of hot air, it will cool off and eventually kick on again at
quiet times, something my wife finds annoying. If the tank is full of
cool air, it holds more useful air and won't kick on a again a couple
times after I'm done using it.

On Jun 21, 12:48 am, Carl M wrote:

Have a filter the output of the tank, for sure. I have a thing
about rust inside a pressure vessel.

I -think- I've rust proofed several tanks by sloshing LPS-3 mixed with
kerosine around in them. A week hanging up in the sun dried out the
solvents. I did have to explain the bright red 60 gallon tank hanging
from a tree. (It's a bird feeder...)

There are several anti-rust chemicals that perform well. I've tried
LPS-3, Rustlick 631, and Sprayon 711. Boeshield T-9 may be better. MSC
had LPS-3 at a local store and I bought a few gallons.

The evidence that it works is no discoloration of the condensate from
the air tanks and no rust, odor or oil sheen on the water from the
solar heater, which had rusted through. I re-treated an air compressor
when a little rust started to show after 20 years.

The big stationary tanks are easier to drain if you connect a short
air hose whip to the drain fitting to bring the valve out where it's
accessible. It's easier if you can crack open the drain valve with one
hand and restrain the clear container with the other. Once the water
is gone you'll get a blast of air.

Simplified chemistry lesson:
If a gas is much warmer than its boiling point, air for example,
Pressure X Volume / Temperature = a constant. PV/T=nR. Double the
(absolute) temperature and the (absolute, not gauge) pressure will
double. Let it expand to twice the volume and its pressure and
temperature will drop. After it warms back up the pressure will be
half what it was before.

If it's near or below its boiling point, like water, the vapor
pressure depends only on temperature. When you try to compress water
vapor it simply condenses (less simply, it also warms up). The air in
the tank has as much water vapor in it as saturated outside air at the
same temperature, the rest is liquid. If the tank warms up some liquid
will evaporate, if it cools some vapor will condense.

When the compressed air passes through a regulator its pressure drops,
it cools and its volume increases. The water vapor that was at 100%
relative humidity now expands into the larger volume and the relative
humidity decreases, unless there is liquid water in the line. This
means that the easy way to dry compressed air is to increase the tank
pressure and let it expand more to the regulated output pressure.

Carl, if you cool the air to a little above room temp in the
evaporator core before it enters the tank, some of the water will
condense but you will still have air saturated with water vapor going
into the tank, and a little water will still condense in the tank as
the air cools the rest of the way. The evaporator would remove much
more water if it was in a bucket of ice water or a refrigerator. I
don't know if you can take out enough to keep the tank dry but it's
easy to try and a good excuse for an extra beer cooler.

I don't want the bother and expense of drying air to mainly run air
tools, so I use a STA-DRI in-line dessicator for painting and plasma
cutting and dry the calcium chloride out in a vacuum oven when it
turns color.

Jim Wilkins

In article
,
Jim Wilkins wrote:

I -think- I've rust proofed several tanks by sloshing LPS-3 mixed with
kerosine around in them. A week hanging up in the sun dried out the
solvents. I did have to explain the bright red 60 gallon tank hanging
from a tree. (It's a bird feeder...)

Heck, if you are going to go to the bother, use "Kreem", made for
derusting/sealing motorcycle gas tanks.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Those of you with air compressors in their shop[, Ho w many times have
you inspected the inside of your air reciever?
My comp is 20 years old and I've never looked inside. I always have a
little air bleeding out of the drain on the bottom of the tank. I
always shutoff the compressor when I leave the shop and let the tank
go to zero psi out the drain.
I have an air dryer on the tank outlet if I need it.